Is Joel Seedman a FRAUD?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- Is Joel Seedman a fraud as a coach? Strength Coach Dane Miller REACTS To Joel Seedman and his insane functional training methods.
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Man is looking like Dwight Schrute with that no warm-up sprint
And had Chicken Alfredo for carbo load
@@ed4253 Fettuccine* alfredo
@@hugehairyfetus prepared at 90 degrees
I’d even say he’s looking like Mose, Dwight’s cousin lmao
My main issue is, you could break each of these wacky exercises down back into their basic form and illicit a better training response as you're able to over load them more using more weight. If trunk stability is the aim then yes they're helpful. but making every exercise more technically difficult isnt exactly going to make a freak. You'll just get a very stable weak person.
Exactly! And even if trunk stability is the aim, there are simpler and more effective ways to do that. NOTHING he promotes is more challenging for trunk stability than a basic, fairly heavy suitcase carry. I keep a 100 pound weight in my basement office and suitcase carry it up and down the stairs a few times most days. I'm quite sure I could do any of his "stability" parlor tricks without too much difficulty.
Exaaactly!
I will admit some do have legitimate use though, like when he pointed out that isometric back extension hold with unilateral row. It gets a bit more "specific" when you start changing the planes of motion and adding in demands at other joints, better way to replicate the chaos of an athletic performance.
But that's like a single accessory you would do sometimes on top of an already solid program of conventional stuff. Turning every compound movement into a core exercise would just make you weak af.
Well yeah but, integration of various muscles along with the stability modalities can be an effective peaking method. Because if you’re a football player for example, you have to use pressing and rowing muscles while staying stable while running someone over. So a specific modality to train that specific quality in a SPP would be something like what Joel does. Not saying he doesn’t go overboard with it sometimes, but you can’t say these integrative modalities have no merit in certain contexts
@@agamjyotsingh5259 Yes - I agree. He does go overboard with a lot of it, however. But again, he is working with trained athletes who already posses a lot of strength, explosiveness and coordination.. A lot of what he does is also injury prevention, which he talks about a lot. Easier on joints with the whole 90 degree stuff
Wrong. Stability creates the strongest connection from brain to peripheral. How I know. Competed with power lifters and body builders. I would warm up with stabilization tempos. Bench press max 2.2 bw, deadlift max 3x bw, pull ups moderate or busy building tempo 21 reps equivalent to weight pull ups of bw + 135+
Joel Seedman is like the villain whose intentions were initially good, but something tragic happened and he lost his mind. I bought his 3x/week program and did it for like 3 months. I honestly got strong af. But I had problems trying to defend him because of what you said. His speaking in absolutes about everything, acting like he's the expert in every field of s&c, and his just poor ability to explain why he does what he does. This is the best critique video I've seen of him
I agree, I used to follow him and his stuff made sense at first, but I feel like he went totally left field.
so did it work or not?
@@justus4423 yeah. I definitely got stronger and more mobile. It's a pretty straightforward full body workout. Compound lifts, superset antagonists, every rep super slow eccentrics, static hold, fast concentric.
@@maat826 so basically you weren't doing most of what he's showing on instagram? Lol go figure. It could very well be all this BS we see is just marketing.
Could you tell me a little about the program? Like what was the workout and sets? I'm just curious about his program.
Joel's thought process. "Is it functional? Yes. Good, but does it look weird? No? Toss it"
The banded snatches freaking kill me, man. I swear he does it just to troll people
Kids, don’t try any of this at home. Take advantage of your youth and build with the basics.
Functional is a buzzword especially thanks to CrossFit. Athletes of different sports have varying skills/strengths. The real question is if a training movement will help on the big stage
Functional is domain-specific.
True, although some qualities prevelant throughout certain domains do transfer over to others to varying degrees such as general stabilisation ect although obviously the more specific the better
I'm having what you're having. Effing legend
"this is the craziest exercise I've ever done" is how every caption of every post from Joel's page. He's also never performed the same exercise twice. Not even for a follow up set.
You know when you don't realize that you've always wanted something until you see it?
That's this video👍👍
😂😂😂
Btw, if you can, can discuss the use of grippers for wrestlers, and if you'd advise to use them?
@@nabillahlabat5570 Anything that improves your grip strength is good for any sport, really. Doesn't really matter how you get stronger, if it works, it works. I personally use grippers mostly for warming up when I'll be doing things like false grip for ring muscle-ups. They work pretty well but they're not magic.
@@bastiaanbogers4114 well, I have one that's about 145lbs and I can't close it yet, I feel I can be so much stronger if I can close it, I also have an 88lbs one that I can close 20 times at least
Nabil Lahlabat Yeah, training for that big one will probably help you in other exercises.
Joel has nuggets of interesting stuff, but the way he approaches training in absolutes, mixed with some of the really silly and absurd movements, seems to cancel out anything good he does.
he combines too many movements with too many pieces of equipment for no good reason, all whilst forgetting what the "limiting factor" of the movement should be.
he also advocates AGAINST full ROM as a blanket statement. which is just silly.
I honestly think he was just an average athlete in these disciplines and tried to use "science" to defend his lack of success/ego
I appreciate how you’re making an effort to be humble and positive about a controversial figure in the field. It’s gracious of you.
Based upon his running I doubt he played sports growing up. I thought it was a joke and done in a weird way on purpose....
I would speculate that at least 75% of those individuals holding PhDs, or even medical degrees, do not have pure athletic gifting.
For some reason, to me, this video feels perfectly uploaded at the right time. Seedman has had some works and critiques in the last few years popping up. Not many have actually dissected it this way and explained it so well. Thank you.
“Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own”-Bruce Lee
Sometimes even snake oil has a couple good ingredients. Love this channel, anchored in science and proven methods but open minded. Killer content.
Thanks, I was planning on absorbing what's useless and discarding what's useful....
Anyways it irritates me how Bruce Lee spent his adult life making movies and doing acrobatics and never entered a tournament and yet people treat him as an amazing fighter.
You know what's functional? Being strong.
Tons of strong people aren't functional though. I've seen plenty of strong people that can barely do pullups or run a mile.
@@JesusChrist2000BC functional for what? Define functional.
@@metalrocks999 Functional as in useful beyond having strength. They have no conditioning, below average balance or coordination and bad range of motion leading to injuries.
Never watched any of your videos but can tell you genuinely love this stuff and you gave credit where it's due. Cool guy
Here’s my question tho (great video btw): what’s with his 90 degree obsession? For *every* exercise. I can understand sport-specific/skill-specific applications on a person-to-person, exercise-to-exercise basis... but to limit full ROM period?? He cites a few questionable studies that are supposed to somehow override decades of otherwise solid research. Is this purely his gimmick for IG stardom?
You know functional is a meaningless buzz word when the guy sets up a Rube Goldberg machine and calls it functional.
I think “function training “ has a place. But if used to much, and you don’t load your athletes, they are going to beat out because now they lack strength needed for their sport. I do “function training “ once a week and do my power moves and Olympic moves 4 days. I’m 55 y/o and have set state, regional and National records in the deadlifts and squats for age/wt class.
Hey Coach! Great video! Fair and balance. I've been following both you here on TH-cam and Instagram for while. I have a basic question for that I've asked Seedman a couple times in the past but I've never gotten an answer, which is why is it that he always has his training athletes performance/ or execute all his movements only 3 times? And why not more or why not less???
Intelligent, articulated, providing valuable information, and many more. Subscribed. I wish you have more following, sir.
Wow I was just starting to see his stuff and I was really confused on his methodology. Thank you for this video
I have never seen Joel Seedman's clients before after on his Instagram account. All I see is a bunch of top-level athletes who is already strong doing weird robot workout. Is there an actual client of Joel Seedman? or that account is just for the Advertisement?
Appreciate how you dissect and try to offer an unbiased view
Seedman seems to like promoting things that might be useful in a small subset of athletes like they are useful to all of them. I'm going to start summer workouts for my girls volleyball team in preparation for tryouts in the fall. I'm sure 90% or more will probably only be in the basic lifts like squats, deadlifts, bench, overhead for most or all of the summer. And it will help them be better athletes. A few will get to the Oly lifts where they will really start to see the benefits on the court. If we started doing Seedman stuff, a tiny fraction would get a big benefit. What has the most bang for the buck, and how much of his stuff addresses specific problems in already well trained athletes.
You were respectful and objective in your criticism/review. Nice work. Thanks!
you cant judge the whole functional training field by seedman though
Hmm coach, your comment in regards to Seedman's running prompted me to ask this: Do you consider powerlifting on the same level of athletcism as other individual sports (Olympic Weightlifting, T&F, Combat Sports, etc.) Or do you believe it to fall more align with bodybuilding?
In my unprofessional and uneducated opinion I'd say it is more in line with body building as opposed to olympic weightlifting
Genuinely curious about what you think of GOATA. Careful though, as soon as you mention their brand they will attack you 😂 they’re the most obnoxious group of people I see in this industry
Yesssss, please review the goata movement dane!!
the sissy squat alternative is like 3 steps away from being awesome. Pendulum sissy squats are S tier
What keeps a pro athlete at the top of his game? The fitness? Maybe. I’m sure it helps, but that athlete will be a great athlete even with a basic fitness program. There is NO need for re-inventing the wheel with these guys. However, it does increase the risk for injury. So I ask again, what keeps an athlete on the top of his game if it’s not parlor trick fitness? The answer is staying healthy and uninjured. This PT will eventually get a highly valued athlete hurt doing squats on a bosu ball or something dumb, and his Instagram fame will sink like a rock.
I know this is older, but people keep equating movement difficulty with efficacy. I mean, riding a unicycle while holding a dumbbell is difficult, but I am not programming it. Balancing on shit, with or without loading, is difficult. However, I just don't see the benefit=unless you're trying out for those weird asian game shows where you have to balance on huge cushiony rollers or maybe playing basketball, baseball, or football during an earthquake. People have a really hard time understanding general preperation, specificity and practice.
It's a shame that functional training is getting the same reputation of Crossfit....
I kinda feel like he is always trying to reinvent the wheel
Thanks Dane! I do not subscribe to very polarizing extreme methodologies. Thanks for making a solid video that isn't simply made to trash another pro in our industry, but to bring clarity.
poliquin is looking down at this guy, having a field day throwing steak and nuts down at him
Apparently those methods didn’t end up helping him too much.... you are trying to mock seedman by bringing up a guy who preached meat and nuts and no carbs and didn’t live to be 60...
I was always curious on his movements and you answered all my questions 😂
Good video. I made one last month discussing truly "functional" exercises and instability training, although my audience is extremely small. Seedman's name came up a few times, and not in a good way. Most of his stuff is overly-complicated, gimmicky nonsense. There's just no reason for most people to mess with any of it. I also mentioned the probability of one-way carry-over (basic lifting improves performance on gimmicky stuff, but not vice-versa), so I was interested to hear your experiences with that.
I made a seedman video for my small audience as well
I box and kickbox, I intuitively started doing those weird flappy movements and they really help me tbh
Good video! I agree. He has some good exercises, but often seems too carried away.
“Functional fitness is like obscenity, it’s hard to define, but you know it when you see it”-Mark Rippetoe
Great analysis. I'll use Seedman's movements on deload weeks, or days I'm tired of the same-old same-old and want something fresh. I'm also a fan of Marv Marinovich, another contrarian, and use movements from ProBod-X, his unique training system too. Or TRX. Or gymnastics. Or just running through the woods, claiming trees, chucking rocks, hoisting fallen logs, etc.
But when the rest period's over, it's back to the squat rack.
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This is beyond garage Strenght this is the knowledge of sports in general
@@SuperhumanUnchained Thanks man. Hope you're doing well 👍
@@GarageStrength ofcourse man i am grinding EVERYDAY
Is shipping to Europe available? Thx :)
@@thomasbesson9983 Yep 👍
Review on functional patterns and naudi next?
This !!!
Do recommend stopping at 90 or going full range ?
full range
Dane, I'm just confused. Everything he does is either slow or isometric. Does he not train people for speed? Train slow to move fast?
There is no right or wrong way in movement. Only consequences. He has a degree from UGA on kinesiology. I’m sure you know mashelite also. He’s been training power lifters for the Olympic for as long as I have known him. Dr. Joel has some interesting point I never agree with anyone completely it depends on the audience and targeted audience. Sedentary and moderate exercises his methods will work or to people who are prone to injury or who are already injured. Overall he is great and fantastic. I’m a big believer in stabilization tempo and his tempo and techniques are solid. This helps reduce athletes from being injured and creating strength. Power is different. Specific adaptations imposing demands. Sensory, integration, motor units. This is his flow of pattern. It is awesome. It’s what creates the ability to do 21-30 slow pull ups or over 50 moderate speed one. Etc. on movement.
You're being too soft on his stuff man. Yeah some of his exercises he shows are actually pretty useful in regards to unilateral / core work, but he's a one trick pony, throwing that solution at every person who steps foot in his door. Like jamming a square peg in a round hole.
You even said it yourself, you tried some of these movements and had some of your athletes do them and they performed very well having only done conventional training methods.
Conventional strength training develops tons of "stability" and core strength as it is, while this wacky shit doesn't develop the raw strength and power conventional training does. One is clearly superior to another.
The athletes he trains are great athletes in spite of what he has them do, not because of it. They walked in the door already being great athletes, he didn't make them. But he gets some sense of authority just because he gets paid by some pros. That may fool the avg person but we know better.
This channel is so underated for how high the quality of content is 👏👍
Your takes on these coaches are straight gold. Appreciate your content. I def plan on snagging your book.
That sissy squat alternative really annoys me. The whole point of a sissy squat is to go knee over toe as much as possible. Yet his alternative there is basically zero knees over toes. The framing of it as more knee friendly is annoying too. People who can sissy squat have some of the most functional pain free knees out of the bunch.
I really don't understand "functional fitness gimmick shit". Whats the purpose? I can deadlift 500 pounds for reps and smash people in juijitsu. Like wtf are these people training for?
Nothing. Purpose is to cope for their lack of heart to actually do proper hard strength training. Training that actually will transfer to everything you do.
Keep doing what you do. 500 deadlifter here too, and I also only do the other basic barbell movements along with some extra stuff, (neck, arms, etc) . I’m pretty freaking confident that my general physical fitness level is on par with these functional zealots and cardio bunnies around globo gyms.
Feel pretty bad for these people wasting precious lifting years doing clown training like this though..
Severely underrated channe
Classic icarus, he simply flew too close to the sun. If only he didn't train those flappers too much.
I think there should be a distinction between a normal functional training like burpees and what not vs dry humping air aggressively
He looks that guy in the gym who piles five benches and tries to jump over them while holding two heavy dumbbells.lol
Would you be willing and able to do one about Functional Patterns? That Naudi guy is interesting and would love to see your take on it. You’re method of assessing is fair and actually would show pros/ cons of that type of training.
Thanks for calling out people's BS.
"He's got his system, I got mine" is a very problematic statement. It implies that this boils down to a matter of opinion and that both opinions are equally valid, when it is not.
There is very little science to back up the claim that unstable surface training aids with anything, unless your life is happening on an unstable surface.
Most of his IG is unstable surface training, yet he claims that it is only 1% of an athlete's training program but never shows anybody doing an actual squat (i.e. both legs on the ground, going below 90).
As for the whole 90 degrees nonsense - here too, there is a mountain of evidence that training should be done inside an athlete entire range of motion to elicit the best response to training, even for rehab purposes the individual full ROM should be worked through.
Hey Dane, does your book cover Olympic lifting for soccer players?
It can be applied to any sport and is very helpful for overall athletics
To be fair, on the double bar single leg stand is that he says right there in the post that its a challenge meant to expose weaknesses, not train anytbing.
The bird excersize is exhausting if you hold yourself right and do each phase as hard as possible. Give it a go.
I appreciate this video. I like that you are questioning if this is functional. Most people on TH-cam are just looking at his crazy moves without highlighting the great moves he has provided. I'm still learning my Niché for training. Best thing to do is find movements that catches your eye. Try them out and if it doesn't work for you then don't use it. No need to bash him.
What do you think about him saying you should Only ever squat to 90 degrees
I disagree completely. I think max depth squatting is essential for developing more athletic athletes with greater mobility and power output. We will cover this in an upcoming video.
Thank you so much for being a good enough coach to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I feel exactly the same way with this guy. There is some crazy stuff but there is some great stuff in here as well.
I also admire a man who will go out there and try and be different and try new things, while sacrificing his cool.
Since i was born with slightly dysfunctional joints and bad stability. If i would have done exercises like this at age 13-14 i would have tremendously improved my ability to grow muscles in the long run. But for people with normal stability, its a much slower process and not always necessary but i think it's very beneficial for injury prevention and injury rehabilitation.
Olympic weight lifting is hard on the body cross fitters dislocated elbows dislocated shoulders etc. So Never seen these type of injuries in body building or power lifting or weight training.
Joels workouts are NSFW.
He is running shockingly slow
I’ve applied some of his exercises that had dynamic correspondence on my soccer players but many others didn’t. The “absolute” statements he says sometimes with eccentric isometrics 90 degree as the only tool of strength training is absolute marketing gold. But I agree with you. You cannot be absolute as a coach and need to be open to all training techniques to develop strength, power and explosiveness
All the world class athletes he "trains" got world class with simple compound barbells and dumbbells. Before ever meeting him and his bullshit.
Awesome video as usual! Make a video with your opinions on Bosu Ball training please! Im personally not a fan of it. But i want the opinion of someone far more experienced than me. Maybe im missing something
You're not don't worry...
Unless you're a crab fisherman or something who regularly works on a boat during a storm, you're never performing with unstable ground beneath your feet. Even then it's not really 1-1 as standing a bosu ball is awkward af. All it does is prevent you from working as hard as you can with solid ground beneath you.
There are some really limited applications for developing ankle stability / proprioception but IMO and in my experience, you can develop all you need in that regard while also working on heavy squats etc...
For some reason when I comment on his IG page, my comment along with everyone else comment disappears as if nothing we say matters or it's against something he don't approve of especially when it comes to squatting below parallel. Strange...
perhaps, as a suggestion, performing "functional movements", or any exercise that is not technically sound, will demonstrate weakness, therefore, continue performing the same exercise, is tantomount to "Practice make permanent" vs. "Perfect practice makes permanent"
Other perspective, is that what ever you undertake, must "transfer" to a sport, & as such, time & effort must be well spent, as to not expend more energy than what is required to reap large dividends in a short period of time, with less effort (as mentioned earlier), with less injury potential & with faster regeneration.
Perhaps, with any exercise or conditioning method, it may well be, that is the "bucket that needed to be filled at that time, with that athlete", hence applying a broad base solution, such as "functional movements", might well be asinine, to say the least, & perhaps there may be a time & place for everything, but one must keep in mind that, constantly periodically altering a program, might be what the doctor ordered.
in summary, every movement must be assessed whether or not the athlete is ready for such movement(s) to begin with (i.e. pre-qualify them). Moreover, prior injuries, current conditioning I.Q., time availability, familiarity with the movement(s) prescribed, regeneration status, nature of sport the athlete participates in, time to set up the exercise(s), time availability of athlete, time required to regenerate from the exercise(s) etc....
Pick your exercise(s) & conditioning methods with wisdom & patience for, according to Rumi "Simplicity lies in complexity, & Complexity lies in simplicity"
,,, just a thought
I’m very sad we back to another lockdown in England 🏴 not happy at all 😞😢😢😞🔥🎧🎧
Since when!?
@@stevenkingsley7781 next month hopefully not 😞
Where’s that being reported mate? I’m down in Manchester next month
What percent of what he preaches do u think is useful cuz I don't get how like most of his stuff is even a thing
So vibrating like a moron in my living room wont get me jacked?
Well i for one am shocked
Oberst was talking about it as well. What the hell are you doing these lifts that will ultimately send you to the orthopedic surgeon and you will lose a ton of money just to function properly again, not to mention the possibility of getting hooked on painkillers or worse.
What happened with just exercising for heart health, some running here and there, push up , pull up, swim, some boxing or karate, you know, keeping yourself active and not trying to lift 300 lbs cause "if you don't do that , you won't hit your peak performance and reach your full potential." Mofos, full potential is for olympians and pro athletes. People are just insane these days with listening to coaches that lost the touch with reality.
amazing way to talk and teach ! this channel need more subs :D
Joel seedman knows his stuff
well you just lost all accreditation.
In my honest opinion Seidman exercises dont look any weirder than the lot of 4-seconds-clips from Cal Dietz channel.
Short answer is yes
I guess coaching elite athletes doesn’t mean you have a good understanding of training principles, how you could say a dead bug barbell press with uneven weight distribution is going to make a significant improvement in either strength or trunk stability is ridiculous. There are 100 better pressing variations and 100 better core stability exercises.
You should do a video on functional patterns as well
I think the 90% of his movements are about trunk control with some grip and manor leg, chest,back,arms iso strengthening iso muscle endurance, but his most core stability right?
Please tell how to train neck muscles!
Here you go 👉 th-cam.com/video/qkPxf0yP1kA/w-d-xo.html
@@GarageStrength Big Thank Boss 🔥💯‼️
It's funny how most if not all "movement" trainers are weak. And have never been world class strong.
People need to remember functional is only a way to map agonist and antagonist movenement as oposed to agonist and antagonist muscles, to counter the overlap and compensation by similarly articulate muscles, not an end all be all. Actually i kinda admire the crazy exercises, almost like trash talking to MMA. He is Jose Algo!
Conventional workout: am I a joke to you?
Some of these movements I gotta wonder, like they could be a bit challenging compared to normal workout, but what do they train especially well? Like aren't there better trunk control exercises that fatigue less due to less use of unnecessary body parts? And aren't there better exercises to train let's say that arm dumbbell movement that causes less fatigue due to less use of unnecessary stabilization and other body parts, and just doesn't make the training a circus trick? Like I can agree that it probably makes training more fun, like those party trick exercises that you do with friends to have fun, and it might reveal some lack of control that you can fix with other exercises. It's his arguments that don't often follow the basics of what is known about physiology and sports science. Like he doesn't necessarily delve into the realms of unknown territory and lack of understanding and research, his explanations sometimes violate what's known and repeatedly found out to be true. Some of his exercises also just look like a great risk of injury, which I'm not a big fan of. Except rapid pulses are great if you're about to play a chicken in theatre.
What is functional? Many things. What is not functional? Lifting barbells on your toes instead of full foot. You know what probably helped best his recovery from weightlifting training? The fact that he kept exercising but limited the range of motion and had to lower the weights a lot for all these crazy balance things. It's called physiotherapy as far as I know, using lower weights and pain free ranges of motion and still exercising until you can ease your body into the movements again.
Some of his reasonable exercises I've seen on channels like Athlean-X with less proprietary marketing, even though that guy is also a pro at branding. But like that bridge with one leg raised or bridge slides. Seedman combined the two exercises. I'm not sure if it's more effective combined, I'd be willing to say it's not, you just take time learning the skill if you don't have it and then you use more resources on balancing than necessary every time you do it.
The biggest critique against his special trainin I've seen has been that it's inefficient with the training goals like strength or hypertrophy, because it sacrifices force production for novel stabilization, so you stimulate the targets less effectively while increasing injury risk for complicated setups (referring to some of his wilder stuff involving like balls, barbells and bands). I guess basically what you said. There was a pretty good discussion between Seedman and Mike Israetel in a podcast whose name escapes me about his training methods and the reasoning behind. Unfortunately it didn't make too much sense, but it was civil and he got to explain his ideas.
You said it very well that he's the marketing guy. The upsetting part is that people see him and his jargon and think it's a thing and get poorer results than they could with traditional training, and it spreads information that's not helfpul to people, might even be the opposite. Personally I respect much more people who don't sacrifice their integrity for marketing and money, not that it didn't always work out to be more profitable to focus on marketing over the accuracy of information and good product.
Where did you get that t-shirt?
His concepts are not all that bad, a lot of it actually makes sense, his execution is terrible though. It’s all bells and whistles.
Unstable training is not sports specific, like seriously outside of maybe sand volleyball is the surface not flat. Seedman is training people to play during a Fucking earthquake
Functional training for movement vs functional training for specific sport. For atlhete , better specific sport movement, for normal people better 7 pattern movement ad 3d. SORRY my english.
Please look at his bench, I think it’s good but I want to see your thoughts on it.
I always find that when you comment about what hes doing and dont agree with him his comment is always wrong read the article. Super annoying and i wouldnt copy anything he does.
I did an immediate face palm the first time I watched him run and the super fast spastic movements