Is Working in Denmark REALLY as Good as They Say?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 พ.ย. 2022
- Is Working in Denmark REALLY as Good as They Say?
#denmark #Danmark #Dansk
In this video we examine the question - is working in Denmark really that great? To answer the question, we look at the potential culture clashes that you may experience while working in Denmark. These cultural differences can make things difficult for foreigners working in Denmark.
While many people working in Denmark thrive under flat management, equality, and high trust environments - there are many pitfalls and culture shocks that come with it. We describe the culture clashes of a Danish workplace that you will want to avoid if you are working in Denmark as a foreigner.
Many foreigners in Denmark take some time to adjust to a Danish workplace, and we hope this video will aid in the process. While we enjoy working in a Danish office, the work culture in Denmark is unique. Unless you grew up in it or have been living in Denmark for a long time, a Danish workplace can have some downsides, potential pitfalls, and some major culture clashes.
WATCH NEXT:
Why Danes Don't Like You at Work: • 7 Reasons Why Danes Do...
SEND MONEY INTERNATIONALLY? Get a FREE transfer up to 500 GBP with Wise (formerly TransferWise) using our link: wi.se/robetrotting
VPN NEEDS: Try NordVPN Risk-Free for 30 days - nordvpn.com/robe
MERCH SHOP:
robetrotting.myspreadshop.net/
SOCIAL MEDIA:
Instagram: / robe_trotting
Facebook: / robetrotting
Twitter: / robetrotting
TikTok: / robetrotting
LinkedIn: / robe-trotting
For more information about expat life in Denmark and living in Copenhagen, check out our blogs:
Robe Trotting: robe-trotting.com and
Everything Copenhagen: everythingcopenhagen.com
INQUIRIES:
Email: info@robe-trotting.com
DISCLOSURE:
This is NOT sponsored content, but if you purchase something after clicking on links we may earn a commission at no cost to you. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
JOIN OUR FACEBOOK GROUP FAMILY:
/ robetrottingdenmark
OUR EQUIPMENT (highly recommended):
Hohem iSteady SmartPhone Gimbal: amzn.to/35azgF7
Rode SmartLav+ Mics: amzn.to/3zghnlT
Canon EOS Rebel T7 DSLR Camera: amzn.to/358KvxU
Hama | Star 61 Camera Tripod: amzn.to/3wber8t
Mountdog Softbox Lighting Kit: amzn.to/3g6VfTE
Mountdog 18" Ring Light: amzn.to/3wh2pKE - บันเทิง
![[TH] 2024 PMWC x EWC Main Tournament Day 2 | PUBG MOBILE WORLD CUP x ESPORTS WORLD CUP](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TgEFw285vXA/mqdefault.jpg)
This channel is the absolute perfect channel for danish self awareness for us Danes 😂❤️
Thank you once again guys, for another fantastic video ❤️🤘🏻
That is so kind, we sincerely appreciate this and thank you so much for watching 😀🇩🇰❤
So true xD
Ja de er altid fuldstændig spot on, men mange gange er de også en tand for flinke. Vi kan godt tåle mere røg og kritik.
@@simonjensen5480 jo, så sandt 😊 vi kan godt tåle lidt mere. Nogle kærlige tæsk kan vi nogle gange godt trænge til. Så giv den endelig gas gutter 😊❤️🤘🏻
As a dane, when I started working in New Zealand, I was basically an apprentice due to my license stuff and I always asked my superviser why we did it this way or that way. He always got annoyed with me and basically was like "just do as I tell you to" with no explanation given. It was the most frustrating thing ever.
I get that totally now that I’ve lived and worked in Denmark. To him and in that working culture it probably seemed like complaints or even an attempt to undermine his authority, even though it wasn’t your intent.
@@RobeTrotting It's called being mission-oriented, and given that modern businesses operate under mission statements, adult employees should be mature and focused enough to accept a task, and provided they have all the tools at their disposal complete that tasking in an exemplary and efficient manner.
As a New Zealander living in Denmark , i know exactly how you feel.
@@williamjones4716 you are assuming that the "mission" has been well defined by management and that management even really understands what their mission statement means much less their requirement "specifications". So people will ususally NOT have "all the tools at their disposal" and that is why they are (or should be) asking questions.
tl;dr: stop believeing that you can make perfect mission statements; just allow questions.
@@LaustChristensen, I remember a drill instructor saying when he told us to jump he expected us to jump and not to ask how high until we were already in the air. The Danish approach to that method via incessant interrogatories is best illustrated by 9 April 1940.
One of the best things ever said to me in a recommendation was “always manages to ask the right questions”. Don’t be afraid to ask questions in a Danish workplace.
Yes! It sends good signals in Denmark, even if it's different in the culture you're from.
Just not ask too many wrong questions and you are good.
@@nublettenHaha. I don't think most people ask "wrong questions" deliberately. They ask questions they consider appropriate at the time - which may or may not turn out to be the wrong ones.
After a while of not knowing for certain, I am at least moving to Copenhagen as a Philadelphian! These workplaces clashes are relieving to hear for me in a sense as I greatly value a horizontal structure. Having the chance to visit Copenhagen and my future workplace recently, there was no doubt in my mind to make the move. Although it will be difficult, what I have seen in my time there and in conversations with Danes as well as your videos has shown me that Danish society holds in great importance many of my own personal values.
Hoping you're having success in the endeavor here some year or so later - moving nations is tough, and we Danes can be hard to crack, but it sounds like a good fit!
In Denmark common sense rules. Management is on their backfoot - because the employees sometimes care more about the company - and its success - than the management who have more egoistic priorities. Bad management could be described like hooking up a train to a concrete block rather than a locomotive. Sometimes the (well educated) employees can go faster than than management.
honestly this is quite fun to watch even for a danish person like me 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 i love you're guys effort to make these kind of videos!
Thank you so much, and thanks for watching! We definitely like exploring these cultural differences and small parts of everyday life that are unique in Denmark and hopefully can help some others to integrate over time :)
One big thing to remember about off-color or "ill seen" jokes and humor in Denmark, is that oftentimes the statements of the joke are actually ironic. The joke might not be aiming to poke fun at the very real problems the joke contains, but the joke is funny because "Could you imagine actually being the kind of person who says stuff like that and means it?", and as such the joke isn't actually the statement, but poking fun at people who make such statements unironically.
Exactly ❤
Great point! It's something we actually like a lot about being in Denmark and that has always been our type of humor and even the types of shows we watch and find funny (even though some wouldn't be made in today's environment).
Case in point: Baby jokes. Basically instructions like: "When blending a baby, hold it by the head so the feet get processed first. That way, you can enjoy its screams longer."
@@Smo1k 😂yadrkk!!
@@Smo1k that's sarcasm, not irony, and yes most Danes don't know the difference
Mike: how did you manage your role as manager in the beginning compared to how you manage it now? Also, how did you react when the employees gave you their opinion, in the beginning?
As a Dane, I experienced this culture clash when I moved to Germany. My team was white males aged 28 to 65. I had to explain to them why I didn’t micromanage and how I trusted them to be the experts providing their deliverables in the right quality at the right time to the right stakeholders. And if they would encounter roadblocks, I would expect them to come to me and let me sort it out for them. They were amazed and a bit suspicious when I also told them that as long as they did their jobs well, I didn’t mind how, when and where they were working from. They grew to accept and even like my management style. A few years later, I started over with a French team, but I was better equipped to handle it.
Today I manage a melting pot of ten different nationalities on three continents, and after Covid lockdowns and with a time span of 12 hours we collaborate without any issues.
At the last count, I had led teams of 36 nationalities. I do two things: Tell my co-workers exactly what the minimum goals are, and say this "The only person on my team allowed to get hurt is me". I get the occasional souvenir, but in 14 years of the hardest end of showbiz, the worst damage to someone's health on my shift is a broken thumb. And that was on the only guy who didn't get that when I say "Stop doing. Just stop. We have to make sure we do it right, and we have to make sure right now."
Now, if my teams had performed slow or inaccurate, I wouldn't have been in this biz for so long. What does it take? Clear rules: "This is the end picture. Get there however you want." and "If in doubt, call Smo1k, let him make the decision".
People are bright :)
what does "white" have to do with anything? people can be black and super well organized or white and super well organized. You sound a bit racist😅
I also don't think it's reasonable to criticize that you can't vote in Danish elections when you're not a Danish citizen. The same is the case in the US!
I've never worked a place where I was expected to be able to perform 100% from day 1, I'm an IT guy, and there is an acceptance that in the beginning of an employment, you just cost money. What IS expected is that you ask for help and guidance. And the first day you go home from work and KNOW today I earned my keep, is incredible. And i've never put a picture on a CV, but my name is very also danish / german :-) I'm so old that the annoyance of pictures on CV's are a later idea than when I started my career, so I've always just ignored it.
My ex entered her current job with a quite different mentality than the majority. In her mind, it was all a competition, which doesn't exactly match the Danish thinking that we're on the same team.
Anyway, you are entirely right that not everyone understand the complications that comes with non-EU staff. And regarding work/life, i never felt weird about those that show up early to be able to also leave early, that's the good thing about this the flexibility.
But I can understand that it may be frustrating to a manager when there's only 4-6 good hours a day to place a meeting. And you have to answer why, and everyone has some feedback to consider... Makes it really difficult to be a dictator.
Like it or not, statistics say that Danes are very efficient once they're at work.
"Like it or not, statistics say that Danes are very efficient once they're at work."
Yeah. since I retired. 😆
@@Gert-DK 🙄 we're admittedly not "at work" the entire day... We goof around a lot on company time... Some show up late, just in time for frokost break, some of us leave earlier than the fruits arrive in the afternoon... But in the end, we get stuff done.. and according to statistics we actually still do that quite well, despite the fact that it looks like slack... We show up for 8 hrs a day, do our job 4-6 hours, and still we do better than those who try to perform 12 hrs a day.
We had an event with the Lund Madsen brothers that described the creative process very well; your mind is like a bathtub, but you can only see the surface, which is only a fraction of what the brain does... The obvious solutions float to the top, of course, the difficult stuff floats around, either it'll show up by luck or you can stir the water by keeping your mind busy in other ways, then suddenly it's there, the solution.
As someone who is from the Philippines, at a BPO work with my bosses or POCs are Danes, I can definitely agree that the type of management really delights me. It's very different and amazing that Westerners or western companies that has BPO here in the PH treats us as colleagues and NOT a cheap workforces that is lower than them that I had experienced in other companies I work with. I wished they are our direct management here. We're are still managed by the local people here.
Some people can adjust and grow to really like how we handle workplace hierarchy, others can't adjust after decades of strict manager oversight which is a shame, I truelly believe it creates a more productive workplace when everybody is treated as a member of a team, from "top to bottom" so to say.
Plus, our mentality in hiring, we hire people because they can do their job, and we expect them to do their job. If we had to look over their shoulder, they had to ask permission and never doing anything on their own initiative, it kinda begs the question why they were even hired to begin with.
Hi louieg
What is "BPO work" and "POCs" ? Thanks in advance.
The good thing about the flat structure is that you can challenge the way things are done too Just don't slam in the doors rigth away. Observe, ask and understand, and then you can always come with constructive suggestions for new or better ways to do things. Many companies are small and under constant development, and being new is always a great way to provide valuable input and question how and why things are being done. Similar you can also bring input and observations forward to your boss (but always trust your own judgement).
Thank you for sharing 🇩🇰
Thanks for your honest opinions
Our pleasure 😊 and of course we love living and working here
Just to be clear, if you apply for a job and the company has an agreement with the union managing that specific type of work, its not allowed by the person having the interview to ask about your family situation, especially if they are trying to wiggle out of you if you have or are planning to have children in the future And generally eventhough we are informal in DK, I dont know many that will find it relevant to ask for such information..
Hello, Dane here. 🙋♂
The abserlute first point at 0:23 is understandebly a bit of a mouthful for those that is not used to having responsibility, but the general rule in danish work culture (and most other European work cultures too) is that everyone is expected to do thair best and help the company as a whole even outside thair respective seat. If a gap presents itself, you fill it in, alert management, maybe even help them solve the issue and worklife goes on. You are now a very functioning member of the company and have helped make it a better/easyer place to be for everyone involved.
I feel this is completely antithetical to Danes as workers. I've lived and worked here for over ten years and Ive never come.across a bunch of people that throw their hands up and shirk responsibility if it isn't there department, as much as the Danske
@@MrHamtits Then I'm sorry to say that you've been unlucky in meeting good workers. I'm born and raised here in denmark 🇩🇰 and sure there is some idiots just like everywhere else, but I've seen the vast majority of my own comrades be an immovable mountain to their respective companies whenever they had the chance also way outside thair fields. 🤷♂️
It is super interesting to hear how Danish stuff works observed from non native danes. I just changed work place. In the interview we never really talked about my skills and the job tasks. Everyone just assumed that I was the right fit for the job. I asked my boss the other day how much he expected to get notified of where I was and what I was doing as it was a new work place. He just said as little as possible. I might check your calender from time to time.
Keep up the videoes.
In my company, we work with the Structure. Freedom with responsibility. If you solve your task, then you have the freedom to solve the next task in your own way, however within the framework that is now set in the contract. And the boss doesn't interfere. If I have a problem I can't solve, I call the boss and we solve it together. So yes Trust is a big part of Danish culture.
This is a great way of explaining it :)
So would an American employer hire a non-English speaking person to a highly paid position? I don't think so.
Plenty of Danish companies have English as working language and a lot of employees not speaking Danish, so not quite the same as not speaking English at an American company.
This was a really interesting one.
Thank you Allen, glad that you enjoyed it 😊🇩🇰
I used to work for a US company in DK, they had a diversity policy that you should choose diversity, not over qualification, but sometimes it sounded like it was more important than qualification. Also a lot of inclusion talk and initiatives, so not that bad, on the other hand, when I started there back in the late 2000s I got the company value sheet, including what would get you fired and one of those were, you may not discriminated Vietnam veterans, which I fully agree with, just not sure I ever meet one though. I once had a teacher that moved from the US to Europe to avoid the draft for Vietnam, not sure that counts :) a funny little note on culture differences.
Modern western inclusion is just racism on new bottles
To believe that people think differently either due to their gender or skin color is the definition of racism
Also the people who fight for ‘diversity and inclusion’ certainly does not appreciate diversity in thoughts and politics
But for now we all pretend to dance to the charade
There's value in diversity and when those making hiring choices lack diversity, it can be important to look for ways to correct that. Diversity in thought shouldn't have anything to do with who gets hired and if you're worried about your politics playing a role in whether someone would hire you, I can only imagine your thoughts and values don't align with that of the company to be that far into fringe politics.
@@RobeTrotting the last quote is a bit like saying “if you haven’t don anything wrong, then you shouldn’t worry about mass survailence”
I compare to ‘Californian woke politics’, which I dare say is bordering true racism and something I do not wish to see in Denmark
If people dont understand they should discriminate.
Im not sure the best is to mention only 1 group should not be discriminated 🦇💩🤪
To me it sounds like they might accept some sorts of discrimination against some people
@@RobeTrotting Just ask youself... should you surgeon or pilot be chosen on qualification or the need for diversity in a company?
Diversity can be good, but to say a workplace is bad, just because all people a women, men, blind, deaf, veterans, gay or straight is just strange to me... Nobody has bashed the resturants that only hire blinder waiters for not being diverse.... And nobody has asked for more women in the paver workforce.... It is a bit strange how diversity is only needed in some jobs.
You explain everything so well !!! **~~**
Oh thank you!
Even my reconnaissance unit in the army had a pretty flat rank structure. I was on first name basis with my company commander, who was a captain while I was a private. I don't know if its the same in other units because reconnaissance is a little different to regular units, but still. Your point even holds within the military!
Super interesting! I'd be curious if that's across the board, and that would be a cool topic to explore as far as the differences in serving in each country.
@@RobeTrotting that would be so cool! Please make a vid on this
@@RobeTrotting I am an officer in the Danish Navy. We are all on first name basis, unless we use function like NK (XO) That also goes for high ranking officers.
Calling each other by your first names within different ranks are all right as long as the chain of command is recognised and followed. It would be weird and potentially problematic if a flat management system were used in the armed forces. The top brass would need to be able to issue commands that the rank-and-file followed through without being mired in discussions, especially in places of armed conflict or war. Of course we are not talking about commanders abusing or breaching Geneva Convention protocols.
@@MTMF.london As a former army wife my impression is, that the informality of their everyday work actually makes it much more effective during battle.
When domeone pulls rank out there it means serious business.
Even within the rsnkd there's s lot of autonomy but it also means that if someone goesdown, explosions hapown etc.they dont have yo wait for the call through chain of command. Everyone knows exactly what to do without having someone giving the green light, which can proof (even more) fatal.
I know that the military friends my ex had in the US was quite impressed by our forces, because they expected them to lazy or slobby but actually found them to be very effective, especially because they are trained to not obly do a "this is it!" report but also listen, evwn if it's just an inlisted persomn making sence.
The hirarchy is there, it's just not as "machine-like" as we were told it is in America.
Just to clearify Denmark does have laws about discrimination but it's not every imployers that keeps those rules in place or that know about them. In cases where you are being discriminated against you can complain to the state you live in. I think there is a nævn that takes care of those things.
Yes, that’s 100% true and I don’t think many people know about the laws or paths to take if you deal with a case of discrimination.
I believe the example given was "must speak Danish" there are no laws against only hiring people who speak Danish. If the working language is Danish, then you have to speak Danish. If you need contact with the Danish populace you need to speak Danish.
Most of the medical industry (especially those concerned with patients) is strictly Danish speaking by necessity for example.
I love your balanced take on these aspects of the workplace. I can see that being a New Zealander, some of our workplace norms would follow the Danish way, some would definitely not, and some might really depend on the actual company and/or managers as to how much it followed these points (if that makes any sense!). Derek and Mike, do you still get to vote in the US elections even though you're living in Denmark? Just curious. I assume so, but not sure.
Yes, we get to vote for all federal offices: so we vote for a President, Senator, and Representative in the House of Representatives. We already mailed in our absentee ballots for the midterms 😊
I find it both hilarious and a little sad that “people are expecting to be heard by their managers” was one of the culture clashes. That really speaks a lot about the work culture in the USA, in my opinion.
But I am glad to hear that you seemed to have adapted to that as a manager, Mike. I’m sure your employees appreciate that :)
Sad even? I think it depends on what came first - the hen or the egg - I think the breakdown of the very hierarchical structure came sneaking into everything here gradually since the late 1960s and most of the 1970s - within the family structure, within the workplace and in public life in general. So who taught who to expect anything from your manager when the calendar now says 2023?
Many Companies in Denmark hve what it's called Flexible working hours. That means that you have the freedom to come and go almost as you please, as long as you make sure that you take kare of your obligations and at the end of the week/month you have the amount of working hours, you have to have, in place. In one of the company I worked, we had a kind of saldo of working hours, where we were aloud to get in minus, like 12-20 hours and likewise plus hours. Many times you participate ti meetings, not because it has something to do with you directly, but because it has to do with the company as a whole or a part of the company, and it's always good to be informed. It can, for instance, be very useful for you if the company have decide something that indirect could affect you, Than is useful for you to know that in good time, so you can find a job elsewhere, or maybe in same company, but just in another department. It is always good to be informed.
Again, you educate we Americans about living, working and eating abroad, especially if we Americans will never give the chance to go, or live abroad.
Thank you, always! 😊 ✌
😊 And thank you for watching
@@RobeTrotting No mention, Mate! I am glad to partake of content from which I can always learn.
I feel like a lot of the points you make doesnt really have much to do with Denmark, but just countries in general. Also i have never experienced that whole resume "discrimination" stuff. Anyway, interesting to hear your thoughts on everything :)
The picture on the resume is not discrimination, it is nice to get to know people, and culture is a part of it.
The high degree of self control you have in your job is because that you are a culture fit.
Lol
HR in my company make sure that people "fit" togeather to avoid clashes and problems
Interesting video. From an individual's point of view, it sounds a bit unstable to only have 6 months to find a new job (if you lose your current one), or you need to leave the country, and that the politicians not only can, but actually are changing immigration, and work rules back and forth with basically only some years apart.
@@KurtFrederiksen But that still doesn't change that it sounds like an insecurity factor for the individuals which those decisions directly affects.
That the beauty of representive democracy..
You can vote on stuff like hate or racism that makes no sense..
In a real direct democracy denmark would not have been like that to people that come here.
This is something a small political parti wanted.
Just like most people dont agree with their cannabis laws in most countrys.
But thaks to representive democracy a few people decide how the rest have to live
In a real direct democracy racism or voting for a opinion that might change the next day, is as far from direct democracy as posible in 2022
Jokes could be rly hard sometimes, but usually this danish dark humor is just brilliant for me:)
I don't recognize all of it. Sure, there are some "Danish" things that may be a bit different. Once, when working in another country some my programmers presented me with an unforeseen issue. I instinctually started brainstorming it right there. I was told, politely but firmly, that I should go to my office and figure out the solution. They even called me "sir". Scary.
Many danes are good at teamwork and do it a lot. They pretty much run self -managing teams. This is very powerful, but sometimes conflict with how things are done in other places.
Dames are different than, say, Swedes, in that they will try to interpret instructions in ways that seem reasonable to them. A Swede will instead stop until they can ask a manager. Danish managers thus percieve Swedes as unthinking idiots, Swedish managers see danes as anarchistic disrupters. Job rank in Denmark is, I believe, percieved to be about job function. In other places it is also percieved to be about status. Not so much here. The company director and the guy who cleans the toilets have different functions. But the guy who cleans the toilets may have higher status.
And yet the Swedes have a manufacturing base that makes the Danes look like a bunch of slackers. Do you really think Volvo shuts-down an assembly line every time some wrench-turning putz wants to ask a manager a question?
A different expression of this that I’ve seen was a departmental staff list from the Uni of CPH. Around the world such a list will usually be hierarchical by title and family name. While the Danish one could be sorted that way, the default was alphabetical by given name with no title immediately visible.
Discrimination definitely happens in Denmark, but I think it depends very much on the management or culture in the specific company. I am very pleased that in my current worplace we have an incredible diversity, with people from every continent (except Antarctica). The language we speak depends on who is present, and I guess that the majority of meetings is held in English. Work related documents are written in English. For some people it can take a while to get used to, but for my part it feels completely natural now. I've even watched a couple of Danes continuing a conversation in English, even though they were the only ones left...
About the meetings... yes, sometimes you'll be included in a huge email thread or a bunch of meetings where you think "Why am I here?". I think that in many cases, it is due to a fear of inadvertently keeping people in the dark. Since we tend to have a flat structure, more people can have a say in something, and more people are pulled into the loop in certain decisions. If you think that you shouldn't be involved in something, don't be afraid to use the Danish directness and speak your mind about it. "Why should I be included in this?" or "My time is better spent elsewhere". We're Danes - we can take it. ;-)
why do you discriminate against antarctians?
@@RTFManuel 😂
I don't think we will, if one of them should someday apply for a job. 😉
From what you say in this video I already love working in Danmark. I live in germany and here it can be either the highly hierarchical way or work is based on a high trust level. When it comes to work as I tell you I would quit the company very fast. Very old fashioned in my opinion. Thanks for the video.
The off colour joke thing makes me thing of one of my friends who looked at me with the most tires expression last week and said that she felt like she was getting too old to work with men over 50.
True, that's probably another layer of difficulty!
I have to tell you, that by danish work rules, companies cannot fire you "just like that"... They need a GOOD!!! reason, and to have handed you a warning before that. The Union will know the specifics for your situation and area of work. (Something big about working in Denmark, you didn't mention)
Unemployment insurance can be optained by anybody and the rules are the same, A-kasse membership is the first step.. atleast stated by my A-kasse.
Okay so
Step one: move to Denmark with a sponsored job.
Step two: Marry handsome danish man 😂
That's the dream HAHA
Most do it the other way around 👍
They find the man first 🤣 and then maby the job comes later
You need a very good job to stay in dk and it need to be the right one.
We just shipped away some michelin cooks, because they got to much money.
And if they have been given less it was to little to stay 😆
@@Hansen710 We’re short on Danes in the states believe me I’ve tried. 😂 My best chance is to either apply for a PHD program or get a sponsored job. However I do want to at least do one trip to Denmark to visit before hand, maybe collect resources while I am there. But nothing is set in stone.
Mind you we have some "closest association" rules, where being married is not always enough if you and your husband could just as well move to the US. If you have a wellpaying job and a husband then it obviously helps, and yes it is not really fair either, but if you are serious you should know all of these rules, and as said in the video, the rules change way too often
Honestly never experienced being able to provide 100% from day 1. Might be because I do not work in a leadership position? In my experience there is some leniency, but the expectation is that you ask questions and learn what you need as soon as possible, so you do not end up costing too much before you reach those 100%.
When you say culture clash- do you mean ‘o holy hec I just realised my original culture is toxic as frak, and I don’t know how to cope with like relatively decent working conditions and relationships’
I feel you guys!!!
No, we mean what we said in the video. Hope you watch it instead of thinking it’s all pastries and Friday bars.
You said that it could be discriminatory to ask if they know Danish? turn it around and think how easy it is to get a job in the US if you don't speak English and submit your CV in Danish or another language? It probably wouldn't be easy to get a job in the US if you don't know English but think it's your right not to learn the language?
And the USA doesn't have a national language while Denmark does, so turn it around instead (it's a little different with English as it's a big language, but it's worth considering that there are quite a few people who have it as their first language)
“Native Danish speaker” is what would be discriminatory. If speaking Danish is a job requirement then it isn’t discriminatory on its own.
I’m very surprised by the “hire and fire” statement. Especially compared to employers being able to fire people “at will” in the USA, I would have assumed the opposite was the case.
You can’t be fired “just because” (unless it’s within a trial period) in Denmark, they need to have a reason and even then you must have been given a warning and a chance to correct prior. Any union would love to take on a case where that happened. If you end up getting fired, there’s also generally a decent notice (“opsigelsesvarsel”). Often times at least a month, afaik. At least for office workers, when you’re considered a “funktionær”, and the time period goes up the longer you’ve been at the company.
Just remember. You are allowed to decline meeting invites but you may have to consult your manager.
Not all danes are caught by the flexicurity system unfortunately... I am danish and married to someone from outside the EU, and family reunificated in DK.. that basically means i can only stay with my husband in my homecountry if we are able to financially support ourselves. Yes, i can still ask the government for help, but then they send my husband back, so i dont really think i have that option anymore if i ever needed it... its unfortunate and very stressful, to not have this security like everyone else, when we pay the same taxes... :(
Ja og de fleste danskere kan slet ik finde kærligheden ifølge de regler pga af deres løn eller uddanelse.
Folk som mig der tager vare på os selv og som ikke nasser på job osv.
Men som køber ting kontant vi må fks ikke gifte os med udlændinge uden for eu pga af de regler.
Hvis du bliver gift i dk og derefter flytter 3 mdr til tyskland
Så får din samlever eu borgerskab.
Så kan du undgå regler med at skulle lægge penge i garenti
Og om at de kan true med at sende din samlever hjem når de føler det.
At de overhovdet godkendte dig er pænt sindsygt med de krav der er.
Og at du valgte den vej siger næsten du ikke kendte til de folk i tyskland der tilbyder deres hjælp til danskere som dig
Jeg har flere venner som har fået statborgerskab til deres samlevere på den måde
Da de kun har håndværker uddanelse og håndværker løn, så er der ingen anden udvej
Men jeg tror heller ik jeg kender nogle der er i dk om 5 år
De har alle sammen et bedre liv uden for dk.
Hvor de ikke bliver udsat for forskelsbehandling og racisme.
Jeg har selv sat en tidsramme på hvor længe jeg bliver og finder mig i en behandling som en andenrangs borger..
Det sidte nye er jeg ik engang kan få en bank konto i mit eget fødeland
Og jeg har betalt ti gange mere i skat end de fleste løn modtagere.
Jeg finder mig sku ik i at blive behandlet dårligere end andre 🤬
Der er masser af danskere på facebook osv som tilbyder hjælp til eu borgerskab i tyskland.
Og det kan nok give sikkerhed selv i jeres situation hvor i har valgt den anden vej..
Jeg vil mene de skal betale de penge tilbage du har stilt i sikkerhed osv.
Hvis du er tilfreds med den sikkerhed du opnår ved et kort ophold i tyskland.
Så kan man ligeså godt droppe den anden ansøgning
Gruppen flyt til flensburg er nogle af dem der guider og hjælper..
Eu giver rettigheder som dk ik er intereseret i du får
En del vælger også sverige og arbejder så stadig i dk, når dk siger nej til man må opholde sig der
That’s very stressful. 😢 in my case, I’m an EU citizen but because my husband is not, I don’t qualify for accessing the flexicurity system either. If I’d come in my own, I’d have a regular CPR etc.
My wife is from a non-eu country and we have to be completely self-providing, meaning that neither of us can receive any "offentlige ydelser" without violating the terms in our family reunification. And the terms we have to apply to are the ones in effect 11 years ago, when we first got it. The terms I had to answer to, were no different than for a non-danish person.
The flat management and "freedom with responsibilities" is really great. There are only 3 people above me and I work "on the floor". If I do my job satisfactorily, I am pretty much free to do what I want and my boss will not interfere.
Of my 6 closest colleagues 2 are foreigners, so in my company discrimination is not a problem. Personally, I don't care a rats ×%@ where people come from or what their beliefs are, as long as they just treat me with the same respect as I do to them.
As always, your videos force us to look inwards and see ourselves from a different perspective, and much of the time you have a better understanding of what is going on in our society. Huge respect!
Yeah it’s true, not a great system for everyone and one area where Danes don’t have the same marriage rights as others in the EU or worldwide.
@@RobeTrotting we do have the same rights.
We just have to get married in dk, and then go to those eu countrys for a period of min. 3 months.
There are 2 ways to do it
Danish queer here wanting to comment on the discrimination bit - my take has always been that, being a small and rather ethnically homogeneous nation of non-English native speakers where a lot of people aren't chronically online, we are about 5-10 years behind what is 'customary' to do in bigger, more international places. A bit of a 'backwater' situation, though we're mostly just busy dealing with our own stuff quite fine. While the mindset is generally progressive for especially US standards, the awareness of an issue and the understanding of how to fix just isn't automatic and needs to be pushed forward and/or taught. To my understanding the US got busy with trans talk in early 2010s, but the first time I even heard mention of a trans person on TV was in 2015, and only by 2019 did NB people (of which I'm apart of) even get noticed.
It also doesn't help that many people are chronically afraid of being considered racist or in denial about what racism actually entails, so many things aren't talked about properly and ethnically marginalized people are kinda pushed aside by a lot of politicians as a consequence. The amount of microaggressions I've experienced or witnessed in the work force due to pure ignorance is vast - but, once again, I consider it ignorance rather than malice as a consequence of Denmark's little 'bubble' of language barriers and the like.
5:00 all american companies ask for your gender, which gotta be super personal?
10:50 almost all meeting are optional. If you don't have input, it's on you, to pull out.
oh no the gender question in job offers and application for a job.....
here in Germany any job offer has to be made gender neutral. This now lookes like this:
"Bäcker*in (m/w/d)"
which covers the male and female version of the jobname (in this case a baker) and then male/female/divers to describe which gender is looked for (..w... stands for weiblich which is German for female).
And while searching for a job I recently came upon this in an application form:
Gender:
__ male
__ female
__ I don't want to say
__ User defined
and when klicking on the last one I got to a box to insert my own text......
@@ulie1960 It's not better and wanted to add the nuance given they forgot it.
And saying don't want to tell then not getting the job, might make you think it was because of your answer, hence again, the unsaid can be the reason you don't get the job.
@@KurtFrederiksen the thing is that it will never work just to ask for equal numbers in middle to higher positions. The root of the thing is you have to have equal numbers already at the start of the way. And this goes for any job you name. In some jobs only a few girls start their way in, and in other jobs you won't find boys to begin their way into the job. As long as this isn't solved there will never be a chance for real equal numbers later on.
And about to be forced to write job offers open for all genders. We had this discussion some years back in our town, and it was crazy. The position to be filled was of an actor who impersonates a historical figure. This person would get a job within the city and part of the job would be to go out to play this figure for tourists and at special events in the city or also on trade fairs. The historical figure was a man, at least this is what is written in books and on his tombstone in our city.
Please understand that there is massive difference between the cultures in the really old companies like Mærsk, Haldor Topsøe, FL Smidt and a few others that are a century or two old, and just about any company established in the past 50 years or so. In the old companies it can be very rigid (depending on what department you're in) and you may not be given much responsibility or know much about what happens beyond your department, just like it is typically rare to even see the managers above your immediate supervisor, again depending on what your actual job is. More modern companies are the ones where your boss is basically the same as you, he just happens to be the one in charge, and you frequently see the upper management and may even run into situations where you regularly have face-to-face conversations with some of them just because they don't see a need to follow the traditional line of command structure. I have worked for one of those old companies with the rigid structure where you felt cut off from the rest of the company, although they made an effort to explain what the company actually did so you'd know what your part was in the greater whole. I was truly surprised when I had to do something for one of the top floor bosses and discovered he was a really nice and approachable guy, which is not what you expect in a place like that where the upper floor management is quite distant (not just physically).
All what you say is about small Danish companies. It is different in the large ones that also have presence outside Denmark. Good video though!
Rart med et spejl....Culture is so important for judgment and often so non-transparent, I am happy to learn about the small things we never talk about.....As a Dane, I really find a lot of our official treatment of foreigners so stupid and discriminatory. We are in many aspects worse or on a level with many authoritarian regimes....really sorry about that. But you guys are quite tolerant...and polite...I would be harsher 😂
Some facts about differences between EU citizens working in Denmark and people from outside EU.
The access to live and work is much easier for WU workers - that comes from the "inner market" thinking. Freedom for workers to wherever they CAN GET JOB. . The still need to apply to be allowed to stay in Denmark, and yes they actually have only 3 months to find a new job (but this is basically only found out if you apply for social benefits I have been told). Where as if are a member of an A-kasse (and thereby have unemployment insurance) you are eligible to stay here for as long as you can get these benefits (currently 2 years). This is a big part of the flexsecurity we were so renowned about.. So it makes good sense to sign up in the prober A-kasse to be able to benefit from this. Of course getting a new job works the best Anytime
Very important distinction, yes. Non-EU people have a much harder time in general.
I dont have alot of experience with CV's but my thought as always been that the picture is so that they will recognize you when you get in for an interview, and i have always treated the Asking for hobbies thing like a, this is what im interested in slash good at, so they can say like, oh yeah we could use someone who has experience in music.
The only part of my CV i think of as being something that might get me descriminated against is that i always state that i have ADHD and Autism, i do that so that I know that a potential employer will be willing and open to accommodate my needs, if they dont hire me because of it then im dodging a bullet.
If ur not the right fit, it has nothing to do with discrimination , its about having a team that runs on all cylenders.
I might think thats ur American wiring =) .
In Danish work life, u just have to produce alot... thats why he got this great system.
Dont forget Danish Education in many field, are way above the education u get in other nations.
With my Danish forrestry education i can get jobs overseas , jobs i even cant apply for in Denmark
Yeah, the wiring in the US comes from some parts of the country being very discriminatory and refusing to hire groups of people etc, so because of that history many precautions are taken to ensure people are fired for proper reasons.
Quit treading lightly when discussing the downsides, i view this to self evaluate and entertain.
Lay it on thicc on us, as you have discovered from work place experiences, Danes like it raw.
Remember Denmark was the first country to legalize porn.
Jutland = not Apple+?
I don’t understand this
“The down side to trust” 😂
I mean... there are downsides to everything.
Well I am not mental - I think - but could you guys change seats meaning from the viewer perspective, red is left and green on right seat?
Last video I watched green shirt was in the right seat and red on the left - thats also makes sense here in Denmark :)
I am not suffering from OCD (I guess) but I am also working with IT - sorry I just want to keep it nice an simple.
Also in the background there is some structure - could that camara be moved a little to the left so it is placed in the middle?
The developers - we keept em like the British "IT Crows", behind hidden doors. IT-Support we dress like, well whatever but our pencils are well alligned.
Leaving some items not alligned - oh like the IBM way, you got a notice. Bad. Yes we inherited the open office as well. What a progress (not).
Just kidding. Something you should know about working in Denmark - inherited "Ordnung muss sein" :)
And ofcause all that open office nonsense. Get some noise reduction headphones - some good ones like Sony.
You will be just fine - thust me :)
Yes yes it is... 😊
Do you still lives in Denmark? I love Denmark, i live in Denmark for my Hole life. Can you talk/Reading danish?
Yes, we live in Copenhagen. We’re not great in Danish but we have learned quite a bit 😊🇩🇰
@@RobeTrotting
Kender I så ikke også termen 'frihed under ansvar' med hensyn til ledelse i firmaer?!
Det bruges ofte i Danmark 🇩🇰
Kunne I ikke lave en video om amerikanske valg? Der har lige været midtvejsvalg i USA og som ikke-amerikaner kan det godt virke lidt forvirrende at når præsidenten er valgt for 4 år, hvorfor så holde et valg mere midt imellem 🤷🏻♂️❓
okay cool, can you made a video where you talk danish, because i Will really hear you talk danish.😊
if you want to treat people the same, treat them different.
OMG we are terrible, I can see that now!! No wonder why we can't get anyone to move here and everybody leaves, sigh ..
Had You been employed in the US and made this video - what are the odds You'd get fired for making statements about "annoying meetings" ?
Zero
Join a union when you start working here. Then you get unemployment mone if you are fired.
And about the language? Can you work in the US (office kind of work) wihouth speaking english? You can get by i Denmark with english, but it has to be one of the bigger internaional companies. Not smaller one.
And if you don't as question it can be recieved as you are not interested in your job. Asking things is a very good thing.
"Leading up" is a thing.
Cultural clashes? Why... when in Rome do as the Romans... I have worked in different countries, and I followed their culture, just do the same. You can't adopt an American thicklayered hierachy in a flat danish hierachy system. Also you dont have to put 300 people cc on your mails like in the US, to cover your behind, and men are still talking to women in the workspace in Denmark, opposite to what the work culture are heading in the US.
when you have worked in the DK for more than 3 months. you can get Social benefits
Non-EU folks are ineligible for many of those
Working in DK Pros:
- Flat Structure
- Flexible Working Environment
- Paid Holidays!
- Good Pay
- High degree of empowerment
Working in DK Cons:
- Hire and Fire
- Can take a really long time to find jobs
- Work life balance isn't there as advertised
- Govt rules regarding residency/work permit
- Difficult to build a network
Denmark is not an utopia. Like all countries it has its good and bad sides. People are reserved but super nice. Government rules regarding skilled immigration/work permit is super tough. There are certain rules of the society everyone should follow. But also high levels of individualism is expected. Innovation and thinking outside the box is encouraged. But at the same time expectation of doing things only the Danish way.
Having worked with Danes 5 years outside DK and 5 more years in DK, it has been an interesting journey. Danish taxpayer base is getting smaller and above 50% of it's GDP comes from exports/foreign markets. So logically it needs skilled foreign workers. Politically and as a society this need is not there yet. So will be intriguing to see how Danish government policies and social acceptance of skilled foreign workers develop in coming years.
All well-put points. I'd also say that flat management isn't for everyone - sometimes it results in no accountability and a lack of project flow.
@@RobeTrotting The flat structure actually worked for me. But you are right it also has limitations. I think for a smaller population like Nordics a flat structure works. But when you consider countries with a large population, hierarchy is a better fit. Flat structure in such instances won't work.
I don't know why the following is considered such a controversial take. What we Danes collectively care about is that foreigners don't come and leech on our society. There is always room for hardworking competent labor, no matter where you come from. We don't even expect people to assimilate to our culture 100 percent. So long as you're self-sufficient and don't commit crime, then you're good to stay.
You two have lived in Denmark for some years. Can you not achieve citizenship? I became a Dutch citizen after just a few years. NB: I married a Dutch citizen -- which helped a lot.
As always it's "svedsken på disken" when you guys take on a serious topic.
Just noticed a very serious concerning pattern!
These two used the phrase "and that doesn't happen in Denmark". Other US expats are posting the videos using the exact same phrase repetitiously. It is clear that the Danish government is paying expats to make these videos and advertise certain aspects of the country.
Creepy!
Yes 😂 we’re all out to get you 👻
Hmmmm...I don't really think it is _dicrimination_ that companies want you to be able to speak Danish. The job functions may not require it, but the teamwork suffers. I have a collegue from Australia who also can't speak Danish, and since English isn't my native tongue, things will always get lost in translation. I live in Copenhagen, and I have noticed it is mainly people from US, UK and Australia who don't feel the need to learn Danish, "because Danes can speak English". Other immigrants, like from former Yugoslavia, are keen to learn, hard workers, and they understand why it is important to speak the language. Just my 2 cents.😊
I think that reason is because anyone non-EU is moving to Denmark for work or school (unless they’re moving for a Danish partner). It’s on a temporary visa and to be blunt, if we aren’t residing in Denmark for more than a few years, it’s not a helpful language and most Danes won’t speak it with you unless you have no accent.
@@RobeTrotting Yes, I see what you mean, if one hasn't planned to settle permanently, it *is* a "minority language" as it is a small country. It's only useful here (and maybe Sweden and Norway). I feel sad that you have encountered Danes who act that way, I always give folks a chance when they try their best. Anything else is rude in my opinion, and the English/American accent is only charming.
LOL compared to Greece, living and working in Denmark is child's play
While you may are not allowed to vote for Folketing, you are allowed to vote for local legislation and elections in the municipalty where you live. Foreigners are not allowed this in the USA. Also, people do not loose their right to vote just because they have been in prison, which you do in the U.S:A. So you have better voting rights in Demark, than a Danish citizen would have in the U.S.A
Permanent residents can vote in some local elections, but only 9 states restrict voting rights of former felons.
If the whole world is Conquered by Denmark. I'm all in!
I definitely wonder about the picture on my cv thing being a black person in the most scary homogeneous environment I've ever witnessed.
Scary. I thought “Arbejdsløshedskasse” and social security was for everybody, who had worked for a year would be for everyone 😢
Basically it is, but it doesn't change whether you are allowed to stay in the country or not. So you can pay towards a-kasse, but can only used it if you are in the country. And with the rules for non-EU citizents, it can get tricky too ensure a income without a job.
@@anneuldahl shoot, sorry to learn that. We do really not treat our migrants well i Danmark 😢
There is no need to care too much about small countries like Denmark. It doesn't matter what their culture is like. such countries have no weight or importance on a world scale. danish must obey the big neighbor to the south
wait, EU citizens qualify for denmark flex stuff?
Ooohh we are PLENTY of native Danes sick and tired of meetings with no substance, value or results!! Believe me.
hmmm, how can we change this? haha
@@RobeTrotting See now you start questioning things - you have been assimilated - resitance was futile
"Flexicurity" died many years ago. Workers are still supposed to be flexible, but the security part disappeared. Companies can still hire and fire as they wish, but workers rights has been cut down year after year.
Thank you for saying it as it is...
Strange that you regard personalization as discrimination.
This is vague, but okay 👍
Denmark is the least PC of the nordic countries while Sweden is the most PC with all the anxieties that comes with that.
True. To me, something in between would be ideal. Both extremes have negatives.
You think you have it hard 😅 think about people from Europe that want to work in USA. you get blow after blow after blow...that is if you even manage to get a work permit there
Remind me, how many planes, trains, and automobiles are being manufactured in DK from the vainglorious flat management style? Even Maersk recognizes the shortcomings and has its ships made in Korea. What's happening in your office through the prism of youthful eyes may not be what the whole country is doing.
Did you know that DK used to have more than 50 television factories? But with the international marked, it just means that certain business are better from other countries (today there are 0, expect B&O who semi-assemply). However DK is e.g. one of the biggest pharmaceutical industries in the world.
@@anneuldahl I was aware that B&O went the way of Dansko. While DK excels at pharmaceuticals, multiple scandals at Novo-Nordisk, plus multi-million dollar fines for fraud, and allegations of predatory pricing do not put it in the best light today.
Tbh its fair u cant just move to a country, pay taxes and get the rights to vote .. 😂 why should u ? Even with that, u as Americans could have Danish blood, we are a small country a takeover wut be to easy and it not your familie that build the system for u , voting is something you earn over time, thats just a respect to the people of that country..
There's some... interesting paranoia there. There are many people born in Denmark without the right to vote though and that's not democracy.
The bit about discrimination kinda' hits home painfully, as a Dane, though I feel like it need some qualification. You're basically not going to find anyone around here discriminating based on LGBTQ+ stuff - it's generally just Not Socially Acceptable to be down on ANY part of that spectrum. Same deal with ableism - the bit about the local version of 'Fairness' ties into that - there's a whole bunch of rules, written or unwritten, designed to help account for people's different mental or physical limits.
HOWEVER... what I personally consider to be the absolutely worst part of the Danish national identity is that constant, unpleasant undercurrent of racism and xenophobia, with islamophobia often getting into the mix as well. An unspoken sentiment that always seems to round down to the same basic mindset: "Our country is amazing, yours isn't, so letting you in only serves to dilute our awesomeness." A sense that foreigners, particularly those from very culturally different places - be it Asia, Africa, the Middle East, or for that matter the good ol' U-S-of-A - have nothing to *add* here, nothing to *contribute* - they're just a drain on our social resources, and likely to diminsh our existing *perfection* by their mere presence.
Certain political parties of ours embody this ethos with particular clarity, but the sad thing is that the sentiment seems to seep into a lot of places, which becomes particularly obvious whenever something happens that seems to 'confirm' these prejudices - that is, any major crimes involving immigrants. Every time I see our local party of Diet Nazis surge in the polls, it saddens me.
So... yeah. If you're gay or trans or whatever, have no fear - be loud and proud, nobody will look at you twice. If you've got the wrong skin-color or the wrong religion, though... you might have to face down some stereotypes, some assumptions, and some thinly-veiled discrimination, particularly within the workplace.
*glances over shoulder* But not *here,* of course - THIS place is GREAT! :D
Very well said!
I never would have imagined a Dane to understand these perspectives. You are super cool to say it out loud. Thanks!
@@tasmimzifyand speaking of discrimination: I find it rather tone-deaf to assume that no Danish person understands these cultural factors, and the impact they may, or do, have.
@@pipkin5287 I've lived in DK for 5 years now, worked with Danes who had good education and work in good companies. I even gave a lecture in København Universitet on cross cultural communication. The majority of Danes I've interacted believe in the Danish state-media made rhetoric that immigrants are trouble to the Danish state and culture and doesn't add any value. If a Dane hasn't traveled outside Denmark, hadn't interacted with other cultures, it is difficult for that person to understand other perspectives. I have also worked with Danes outside Denmark for 5 years, since they are exposed to other cultures, their perception is different. So yes, when I wrote, it is surprising that Dane can understand these perspectives, there were experiences and logic behind that comment. So perhaps it is quite unfair of you to assume I made this comment without any context.
Sounds like a horrible place to work.
It’s a mixed bag haha
@@RobeTrotting The Devil is in the details. Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts- really saves people a lot of time and aggravation.
Join a union if possible.
Fantastic advice! And we could do a whole video on how and why that's so important - could be a future topic. Thanks Tommy, and thanks for watching :)
@@RobeTrotting that's a must in my eyes. The history of Danish unions is honestly amazing and humbling.
@@RobeTrotting Yes please! I would love a video about Danish unions. I recently just arrived and don't know where to start with unions.
you alsow com from the worst palce on earth to be a worker SIMEPL OFC IT BEtter in here i wood rater be homeles in denmark thant work a low paying joob in usa
I think you’re punching up and ignoring many other places in the world and living in a danish bubble. But okay 👍