For those who have the benefit of having a carb that has replaceable high speed air bleeds like this one definitely does, a change is about a 3 minute job between pulls so I'll try that first unless the engine is demanding a bigger swing. A bleed jet is opposite of a main jet since you're metering air rather than fuel. If the carb has .032" high speed bleeds and I think the engine wants to be leaner I'll swap in a set of .037"'s and make a pull. Overlay the 2 runs and now you have a great comparison and help as to where to go from there. You will come across engines that don't care being rich/lean low timing/high timing/etc. they're making those numbers and nothing you do will change that fact.
As an engine builder myself, this just another case of the customer thinking he knows best and buys a bunch of mismatched parts, takes it to the builder and says;"Make it work" ! Costing the builder many,many more hours of time and AGGRAVATION , not to mention himself a LOT of money than if he bought what the builder would've suggested. Guarantee it would've made more power than what was here as well. Easier,Cheaper and Better; but he knew best!
Yep…. A poor combo…. But he has some ‘cool parts’ from a high performing an Engine Master combo. 🤦♂️ Great job to Bill for trying to make a silk purse from a sows ear and resurrect the combo of parts the customer provided.
Those heads were angle milled 1.75* , dowel holes shifted .090", valve guides stood up 1* to 14 degrees and the intake was moved in X and Y axis .070" to the center of the cylinder. I also bushed and relocated the intake lifter bores to offset the lifter to "straighten" the pushrod. This allowed me to use roller lifters for a SBM as the link bar was the right distance to accomodate the lifter bore spacing. I had trouble with that cam profile and the 1.7 rockers being stable past 6100rpm and switching to 1.6's completely calmed the valvetrain down and made more power all the way to 6700rpm. Either move to a milder camshaft or 1.6 or even 1.5 rocker arms. Youre right though-those heads are not for the faint of heart and really to do that engine justice, custom pistons and a different camshaft with offset lifter seats would've cured 95% of your headaches. Really though a custom cam with far more duration , milder lobes and a wider LSA would probably make that engine much happier. 122% VE is incredibly high and approaching supercharger territory though. I figure you are probably missing 75hp and 50lbs of torque in its current configuration. Oh and I never claimed those heads won the contest. @ 440 cubes it made 550lbs @3500 and 630lbs @ 4800rpm. Best we ever did was a 3rd place in 2016..4pts out of second.
Thanks RAMBRUTE. Wow! Lot's of detailed technical information that only the creator of these heads would know. Your comments are pretty consistent with the discussions we have had about them. It's Bill's engine so I will send him a text asking him to make sure he sees this. Thanks so much for contributing and validating this project. AG
Pretty much any conventional V-8 is happy in the 34 to 36 degree maximum timing range, therefore I'll pick an arbitrary number (28 to 32) and then work on jetting until it's optimized, then follow up with a timing loop. High .5's BSFC is pig rich other than maybe a marine engine who's life is entirely high load, so I'd be dropping 4 jet sizes front and back after the first pull. We have probes for all 8 cylinders in all our various dyno headers, so that helps with the tuning aspect such as if the primary and secondary being balanced. If you look at the chart at 11:29, specifically Fuel A and fuel B you'll see those 2 values relatively equal throughout the run. (assuming 1 turbine supplies the primary bowl, and the other the secondary bowl) That tells me to jet evenly, with the only caveat that if the engine cruises too rich or lean you'll need to change the stagger accordingly.
JThanks for sharing Very interesting video I was saying .Just Mopar Joe was showin what to do about the pesky mainseals. toss out the chrom fuel pump block off plate they never sealed
Oh my gosh, I can't imagine that engine in a cab-over pickup. I once terrified myself in a test ride at about 90 mph in a Chevy powered Dodge, something about sitting over a beam axle and that was with maybe half the horses. Possibly for shows and coffee, but still extreme madness. (-= On the technical end of things the discussion of the scavenging was truly interesting. I rarely see it mentioned in videos, these days except for motorcycles, maybe that's a function of search algorithms targeting me. Raising the fuel level for diagnosis is a great time saving tip. You would not want to leave it like this as it a bit of a two edged sword in regards to the partial throttle response designed into the carb. Thanks once again, an informative video, that keeps you thinking after the watching is done. 👍
Overlap is what causes these issues if you have really good heads you don’t need as much overlap to pull charge in.quick camshaft change and it will be right on 🎯.over cammed
Seems like a lot of effort for a power level that an out of the box trick flow 270, 1.6 rockers, a trick flow RB max wedge intake, and the same HVH spacer could make? I certainly would not put smaller diameter pushrods in, why don’t you clearance the heads more? Have a look at B3 Racing Engines, he has great articles about modifying Mopar shaft rocker system for minimal sweep across the valve which stabilizes the valvetrain, and lets the valve operation better follow what the cam lobe is doing. The power sure drops suddenly, that is usually a sign of valvetrain distress.
What's with all the headaches? Dick Landy never had problems when building shootout winning engines. Aah yes yes... everybody a master race engine builder mechanic. Nice
What is the static compression on this engine? What fuel were you dynoing with? What are the cam specs? 1.31 HP per cid ? with those modified cyl heads and intake showed have at least 740hp
The cam is wrong. If the engine is overscavenging, the timing events are off. What are the cam specs? Can the cam phasing be adjusted? Im sorry, but the numbers are not good relative to the combo, and having to run race fuel is going to get old after a while. That big girl should be 100-150hp stronger plus the torque.
I thought that 500 mopar stroker would have made more power than that. My 496 bbc on 9 to 1 compression ratio made 565hp/600tq with iron rectangular port heads with no port work anywhere on 93 pump gas.😆
I think heads on this engine are to good for overlap on camshaft sending mixture out exhaust lost power.overlap can be a bandaid for less head flow.but can become to much with great heads.a cam change and viola all the power back.
non taxed fuel on the street=$200,000 fine a guy selling it paid if caught and the airport dispenser is not going to fair well either if your caught with the blue stuff .. and you can smell either a mile away..
@uberdriver5711 I think it was based around using the funky, big dollar heads. I was thinking we'd see 800hp range, however, the torque and mellow rpm range is nice. But then again, gotta run race fuel. It's a headscratcher. I'm unsure what the goals were.
Tell me why you did not do a cranking compression test , instead of relying on the calculated 240 lbs. And as I said before them heads did not win the 2014 EMC, they placed 14th.
For those who have the benefit of having a carb that has replaceable high speed air bleeds like this one definitely does, a change is about a 3 minute job between pulls so I'll try that first unless the engine is demanding a bigger swing. A bleed jet is opposite of a main jet since you're metering air rather than fuel. If the carb has .032" high speed bleeds and I think the engine wants to be leaner I'll swap in a set of .037"'s and make a pull. Overlay the 2 runs and now you have a great comparison and help as to where to go from there. You will come across engines that don't care being rich/lean low timing/high timing/etc. they're making those numbers and nothing you do will change that fact.
That's a smart tuning tip, I'll have to try that. Thanks Yarrda. AG
As an engine builder myself, this just another case of the customer thinking he knows best and buys a bunch of mismatched parts, takes it to the builder and says;"Make it work" ! Costing the builder many,many more hours of time and AGGRAVATION , not to mention himself a LOT of money than if he bought what the builder would've suggested. Guarantee it would've made more power than what was here as well. Easier,Cheaper and Better; but he knew best!
Yep…. A poor combo….
But he has some ‘cool parts’ from a high performing an Engine Master combo. 🤦♂️
Great job to Bill for trying to make a silk purse from a sows ear and resurrect the combo of parts the customer provided.
Raising the float level to see if needs more jet is real clever this guy has all the old tricks.
Thanks Mae, That was a new one for me too! AG
😊
Those heads were angle milled 1.75* , dowel holes shifted .090", valve guides stood up 1* to 14 degrees and the intake was moved in X and Y axis .070" to the center of the cylinder. I also bushed and relocated the intake lifter bores to offset the lifter to "straighten" the pushrod. This allowed me to use roller lifters for a SBM as the link bar was the right distance to accomodate the lifter bore spacing. I had trouble with that cam profile and the 1.7 rockers being stable past 6100rpm and switching to 1.6's completely calmed the valvetrain down and made more power all the way to 6700rpm. Either move to a milder camshaft or 1.6 or even 1.5 rocker arms. Youre right though-those heads are not for the faint of heart and really to do that engine justice, custom pistons and a different camshaft with offset lifter seats would've cured 95% of your headaches. Really though a custom cam with far more duration , milder lobes and a wider LSA would probably make that engine much happier. 122% VE is incredibly high and approaching supercharger territory though. I figure you are probably missing 75hp and 50lbs of torque in its current configuration. Oh and I never claimed those heads won the contest. @ 440 cubes it made 550lbs @3500 and 630lbs @ 4800rpm. Best we ever did was a 3rd place in 2016..4pts out of second.
Thanks RAMBRUTE. Wow! Lot's of detailed technical information that only the creator of these heads would know. Your comments are pretty consistent with the discussions we have had about them. It's Bill's engine so I will send him a text asking him to make sure he sees this. Thanks so much for contributing and validating this project. AG
Thanks Bill. You are one of the good guys in my book. Always learning at 57.
Thanks for another great video = always learning from these. Liked the outlook on average horsepower vs peak horsepower!!
Glad you liked it, AG
Pretty much any conventional V-8 is happy in the 34 to 36 degree maximum timing range, therefore I'll pick an arbitrary number (28 to 32) and then work on jetting until it's optimized, then follow up with a timing loop. High .5's BSFC is pig rich other than maybe a marine engine who's life is entirely high load, so I'd be dropping 4 jet sizes front and back after the first pull. We have probes for all 8 cylinders in all our various dyno headers, so that helps with the tuning aspect such as if the primary and secondary being balanced. If you look at the chart at 11:29, specifically Fuel A and fuel B you'll see those 2 values relatively equal throughout the run. (assuming 1 turbine supplies the primary bowl, and the other the secondary bowl) That tells me to jet evenly, with the only caveat that if the engine cruises too rich or lean you'll need to change the stagger accordingly.
Makes sense to me. Thanks as always Yarrda. You obviously have a lot of dyno experience. Thanks for sharing it.AG
JThanks for sharing Very interesting video I was saying .Just Mopar Joe was showin what to do about the pesky mainseals. toss out the chrom fuel pump block off plate they never sealed
Leaking out bolts,needs sealer on them, sometimes it's simple
👍👍👍 good show both you and Bill, thanks
Oh my gosh, I can't imagine that engine in a cab-over pickup. I once terrified myself in a test ride at about 90 mph in a Chevy powered Dodge, something about sitting over a beam axle and that was with maybe half the horses. Possibly for shows and coffee, but still extreme madness. (-=
On the technical end of things the discussion of the scavenging was truly interesting.
I rarely see it mentioned in videos, these days except for motorcycles, maybe that's a function of search algorithms targeting me.
Raising the fuel level for diagnosis is a great time saving tip.
You would not want to leave it like this as it a bit of a two edged sword in regards to the partial throttle response designed into the carb.
Thanks once again, an informative video, that keeps you thinking after the watching is done. 👍
Thanks Marcus.AG
Always love these breakdowns ❤
That trick with the float level in carb is smart.
Hey Al, I see everyone wearing Gold's Garage merch.
Is there a link to all that?
Thanks Alleyoop. We have a website under construction to do that. I will let you know.
Great video.. learned a couple thing's...
Overlap is what causes these issues if you have really good heads you don’t need as much overlap to pull charge in.quick camshaft change and it will be right on 🎯.over cammed
Thanks Utah.AG
Seems like a lot of effort for a power level that an out of the box trick flow 270, 1.6 rockers, a trick flow RB max wedge intake, and the same HVH spacer could make?
I certainly would not put smaller diameter pushrods in, why don’t you clearance the heads more?
Have a look at B3 Racing Engines, he has great articles about modifying Mopar shaft rocker system for minimal sweep across the valve which stabilizes the valvetrain, and lets the valve operation better follow what the cam lobe is doing.
The power sure drops suddenly, that is usually a sign of valvetrain distress.
What size valves and what is the intake advertised duration if you don't mind telling?
Bill, can you respond to this question please? AG
What's with all the headaches? Dick Landy never had problems when building shootout winning engines. Aah yes yes... everybody a master race engine builder mechanic. Nice
I did not see the cam specifications on this video, I may have missed them but can you tell us what they are
Bill, when you have time, can you please respond to Thomas' question? AG
What is the static compression on this engine? What fuel were you dynoing with? What are the cam specs?
1.31 HP per cid ? with those modified cyl heads and intake showed have at least 740hp
The cam is wrong. If the engine is overscavenging, the timing events are off. What are the cam specs? Can the cam phasing be adjusted?
Im sorry, but the numbers are not good relative to the combo, and having to run race fuel is going to get old after a while. That big girl should be 100-150hp stronger plus the torque.
Agreed, it should be far stronger with that compression
We did end up with 655hp and 700 ft/lbs this past Sunday when we ran it after the repairs.
@@DarrellWatters That's much much better.
I thought that 500 mopar stroker would have made more power than that. My 496 bbc on 9 to 1 compression ratio made 565hp/600tq with iron rectangular port heads with no port work anywhere on 93 pump gas.😆
I think heads on this engine are to good for overlap on camshaft sending mixture out exhaust lost power.overlap can be a bandaid for less head flow.but can become to much with great heads.a cam change and viola all the power back.
We did eventually get 655 hp and 700 ft/lbs
Cool !
non taxed fuel on the street=$200,000 fine a guy selling it paid if caught and the airport dispenser is not going to fair well either if your caught with the blue stuff .. and you can smell either a mile away..
Nobody said they were going to run avgas on the street...
That's a truck pull your house down engine for sure.
For all the time, money, and parts in that unit it seems like a waste. Mismatched parts? A well prepped 440 would do the same job.
I was thinking the same thing
@uberdriver5711 I think it was based around using the funky, big dollar heads. I was thinking we'd see 800hp range, however, the torque and mellow rpm range is nice. But then again, gotta run race fuel. It's a headscratcher. I'm unsure what the goals were.
It's because you didn't use a quadrajet
Thanks for the comment Frank. You just might be right. AG
Tell me why you did not do a cranking compression test , instead of relying on the calculated 240 lbs. And as I said before them heads did not win the 2014 EMC, they placed 14th.
you have so many advertisements now , its hard to watch
Sorry Pam, that is not in my cotrol.AG
@@goldsgarage8236 i do realize it's dumped on you , just wanted you to know
Just get TH-cam Premium. No more commercials.