The Mountain West killed the WAC a decade ago. This sucks but it’s how it works. MWC was a bully and now it’s just got its lunch money stolen by a victim whose fighting back. The difference here is that the MWC will likely survive, just as a significantly weaker conference. Will you also also call the MWC when they poach teams from the Big Sky?
And the WAC killed Big West football. All of these have something in common. The poaching conference doesn't survive in the long run. Which is the issue with what the Pac-12 is doing. There was a way to do this by undercutting Western college football and creating unnecessary animosity.
@@thetouchback And I agree, this sucks, but what are they to do? I prefer a rebuilt Pac-12 than a MWC relegation for OSU/WSU and the sport. The MWC would eventually get clipped by the East anyways, might as well have it done by a traditionally Western conference. I do wish it was still Pac-10, WAC, MWC, Big West. But its just not going to happen. unfortunately, college football as we know it is dying. With the arrival of super conferences, a likely increasingly expanded playoff, and the NCAA already thinking about adding another year of eligibility for all players, FBS (Power 2) is trending towards its own professional league. Sucks. But enjoying it while it lasts. Edit: love your CFB videos btw!
Big Sky would get schools like Central Washington, Western Oregon, Colorado Mesa and Colorado Mines and maybe CSU-Pueblo from D2 to backfilled. We need the west coast schools to restart football again.
Flush with money to do what get more schools and pay those fees to other conferences. Plus with the lawsuit the pac 12 has started most likely the exit fees are gonna be reduced significantly
I'm just physically done with this whole conference realignment shenanigans and I just want everything to go back to normal. Regionality and geographical culture was what made college football great. Now, this is just plain stupid.
“Solid footing” for Oregon State is not defined the same as solid footing at New Mexico. Oregon State is trying to get anywhere near the payout Oregon gets. Just because that won’t happen doesn’t mean Oregon State fans will accept Wyoming. This is about being north of $10 million per school per year in a media contract, full stop. But don’t be surprised if the Pac can’t get CTZ schools. At least traveling to the Midwest isn’t too expensive. It’s going out west that costs real money. And THAT, as much as anything, is what causes problems with western college football.
20 years ago, what did the MWC do to other conferences, the same thing😕🤷♂️🧐. What do you expect the pac 12 to do? Back. Then did the MWC pay out to another conference over a 100 million dollars. NO
The pac is taking care of the MWC. They are paying 10 mil on top of the 17 mil exit fees per school. That 19 mil is about 2x the tv revenue. If WSU and OSU got the same treatment they would’ve had a war chest 3-4 times larger than what they were left with. Even if they don’t take any other schools and Air Force stays, the MWC will be left with over 100 million dollars which they could use to help FCS schools transition. They could easily fund the Montana Schools, Sac State and potentially NDSU and SDSU.
You shouldn't feel conflicted. The MW almost killed off the WAC without blinking an eye. Why do you fail to see this?? There were bigger fish (UT/OU) that started this madness. The PAC twins did what they had to survive. I don't begrudge them. If anything Sac State might get an invite to the MW. This is a very strange take from you and i like your content.
The issue I have is that every time one of these Western conferences left another for the dead, the same fate ended up befalling them down the road. Survival shouldn't be the end goal because, ultimately, these conferences don't survive; they only end up delaying the inevitable. I believe there was a smarter way to do this that created a more sustainable ecosystem for all.
They should have just merged with the MWC. They are trying to keep the PAC-12 brand alive, but it will never be the same with the top Cal schools. Stanford should go independent and Cal should rejoin the PAC/MWC.
If OSU and WSU joined the Mountain West, they’d each get $5 million a year and the rest of the conference wouldn’t even get a raise from their $3.5-4 million a year. With a new Pac, WITHOUT CERTAIN MWC SCHOOLS, it’ll be closer to $10 million per school. Now I want you to understand what that says about who is paying the schools… which happens to be TV and other media networks. They care about ratings, which is the only reason they care about football. They’re tired of being tied to bad football, they’re cutting the number of mouths they feed. As it stood, when the Mountain West first formed, they got a $7 million per school per year contract. Essentially, over time, the conference has taken a pay cut. That’s why OSU and WSU stayed at arms length, and that and travel costs- and the time zones- are why western football suffers.
Yeah it’s hypocritical and sucks, but the Pac12 knows it needs to be more aggressive to survive and those 4 schools had no real reason to stay outside of tradition. They know they need to become the premier G5 conference, so that’s what they’re doing. The MWC should’ve 1000% been anticipating this, especially ever since they couldn’t come to an agreement to extend the scheduling thing. Not to mention it was already apparent that pretty much all of the notable MWC schools wanted into the Pac 12 in the first place. In a perfect world, the MWC would’ve just merged in with the Pac 12 while retaining its revenue bump and all that, but I assume the people actually running the conference wouldn’t ever allow that happen.
Wyoming and Nevada are constantly disrespected by the coast schools. I lived in Reno for a while and it's a great sports city. Their facilities and tradition are great plus they have a solid baseball program. I'm not as familiar with Laramie but I've been to three football and six basketball games at Wyoming. As a spectator, the stadiums were FBS quality and more comfortable than a bunch of the power conference stadiums I visited. Plus, one of my HS basketball coaches played for the Cowboys. Shout out to the Shamrocks! ☘️ Wyoming, Nevada and Colorado St would be solid additions to the new PAC-10. I believe having an eight team coastal and eight team mountain divisions would grow western NCAA sports and improve D1 as a whole.
Living in Northern California, I have come to prefer going to Nevada games over Stanford ones. One of these days, I'll do a video on the history of Wolfpack football which is absolutely wild.
I remember when the AAC tried to poach a few Mountain West schools when this wave of realignment started. Obviously, it fell through and only been a backpage headline for about a week. 3 of those schools joined the New Pac-12.
And this is the logic that has killed off every other Western DI/FBS football conference. By the way, if it wasn't for the MWC, Wazzu and OSU are playing out one of those terrible New Mexico State 2010s independent schedules with home-and-homes and multiple FCS opponents.
@@thetouchbackGeography killed off every other Western conference, full stop. 85% of the population of the United States lives east of a line roughly from Sioux Falls, SD to just west of San Antonio. Of the remaining 15%, the vast majority live west of the Cascades/Sierra Nevada. Therefore, there are always a limited number of big time schools to hold a Western conference up, and once a conference loses some of the ones it has and doesn’t have access to others, it inevitably creates an Ostsiedlung that leads it into Texas, the nearest state to the West that has big time college football. That just about inevitably goes wrong as either the Texas school is too good for the conference and wants to leave, or it/they end up being dogs and pissing off the core members (as what happened to the WAC with Tulsa, Louisiana Tech and UTEP). But as long as schools have a standard of operating that they need to keep up they will search for yield instead of “just being United” with the dogs in their own neighborhood.
@thetouchback the Mountain West didn't agree to a scheduling alliance out of the goodness of their hearts. They had leverage over the Pac-12 and they used it to extract millions from the conference. One of the biggest reasons why the the Mountain West-Pac-12 talks broke down this month is because the MWC overplayed its hand
@@thetouchback the response to your post is, frankly, who gives a shit? We can discuss whether or not the NCAA or whoever should get involved in college conferences to create a better balance and parity, and the merits of that all we want, but until something like that happens, each conference is a separate business entity with it's own goals. The ACC doesn't owe the American or Big East anything. The SEC and Big 10 aren't beholden to each other in any way. All have their own interests to look out for. In an ideal world, there would be four major conferences, aligned by relative geography where your conference championship games would be your round of 8. But that's not the world we live in, and until we start with a clean sheet of paper reimagining college football... You have to accept that conferences do not and will not give a shit about each other long term.
USC and UCLA to include the pervious incompetent PAC12 leadership started this major dominos of greed and regulation. This is collectively bad for the sport of college football. The other issue is the NCAA also failed to reasonably compensate student athletes for years which lead to all these lawsuits and NIL. The problem is this now, everyone is trying to chase (and yes I said trying) the BIG10 and SEC. These 2 conference make so much money now and have such an advantage with leverage and placement in the postseason, all these other conferences are trying to just survive and prevent irrelevance. I understand your premise of protecting the integrity and health of college football, because I hate to see it become more and more like the NFL, which is bad for college football. My fear now is this my friend… it almost feels like it’s too late for college football to go back to regional conferences and rivals that make sense.
This is overly critical of the Pac-12 and doesn't consider the position the two schools were in. Neither WSU nor OSU started realignment and they've lost so much because of it. What would you have rather the Pac-12 done than attempt to rebuild the conference? Reverse merge with the entire Mountain West? Just accept the fate that was dealt to them? A reverse merger was not a viable choice because of how top heavy the Mountain West is. Considering how hard the MWC was negotiating with scheduling, i wouldn't be surprised if they were driving a hard bargin with a merger. As for the new Pac-12, I think its outlook is much better than you suggest. The conference is still has lot of geographical and cultural similarities between the members. Even adding Texas schools or Memphis/Tulane would be fine. It doesn't make any sense to condemn WSU and OSU when they're one of the losers of realignment. The schools and conferences who are truly to blame did it solely for money, not to survive like the Pac-12.
I disagree, it's quite obvious that the schools in the MWC are the best in the west. A full merger was the best possible outcome for all schools. The Merger would have given the PAC well over 300M to add schools Memphis and Tulane from the AAC bringing the conference to 16 Teams. They could have decided to go to 18 as well positioning 9 teams per division perfect for football, and having a conference Championship. The new PAC/MWC would have virtually guaranteed at least 1 playoff invite every year, maybe two on occasion. Now you have weakened both the PAC and MWC. AAC is actually in the best position to poach teams IMO, with the best Media Deal, whereas the 16-18 team PAC/MWC would have easily had the top G5 Media Deal
PAC 12 is trying their best so one day they can compete at the highest level! They probably be better off trying to separate themselves; rather trying to keep up with the BIG 10 and SEC conferences.
Wish Wyoming could stick around with CSU and Boise. I'm just saying this also .... CSU football has been irrelevant for ever until this year why didn't Wyoming make a case for joining the Pac out side of the smaller market
Pac-12 schools basically dolled themselves up in an attempt to get invites elsewhere leaving Wazzu and OSU marooned. Now, Washington State and Oregon State are asking programs to do the same thing to schools in other conferences.
It seems to me, as a Cal fan based on Bay Area fandom since I was 12 due to a working uncle and otherwise looking in from 15,000km away, that the writing is on the wall for those that left. Those with true FBS competitive intentions to be big time football schools will never come back, and those with academic egos to fill would never come back with what's left out west. So, the west coast footprint is Group of 5, now 6. That's it, get over it. So make the best conference you can from that so any team that is able to run the table has a chance at being respectable in the CFB playoff. To that end, WSU and OSU should have just fucking joined the MWC, or somehow figured out how to buy the MWC and bring them all to the PAC. Personally, I love the idea of two very middling behemoth conferences. Bring the Idahos, Dakotas, Montanas, your Sac States and whatever else in. Between the PAC, MWC, Big Sky and the relevant teams from the CAA, you've got 28-32 teams. Dream world now, but let the PAC pick the strongest 14-16, then the rest stay/step up to FBS to be the new MWC - alternatively the new MWC goes down to FCS and the west has an FBS conference to support and an FCS conference to support
My head is spinning. All I can add, is that, Rat Race falls into one of my top 5 all time movies. "Back on the bus, back on the bus." "We came on a rocket car...." 🤣🚀
It's unreasonable to expect the OSU and WSU to just roll over and die because they'll be accused of being hypocrites. Wazzu just built a big new stadium and now have to pay that off which was not going to happen with MWC money.
OSU renovated their stadium and did not build a new one. Wazzu has flirted with major debts since I was on the Palouse more than a decade ago. The extra five million a year the new Pac-12 hopes to earn doesn't solve the cash crunch, nor does it provide any long-term stability.
@@thetouchback to be honest with you about this. If you are looking for someone to blame for this situation. Put the blame on the TV networks for causing the problems with realignment.
I feel like your argument here is that this cycle of unstability in west coast cfb was made no better by the rebuild of the pac-12 and you’re comparing it to the whole big west/wac/mw cycle that has played out for the past few decades. However, I don’t think you realize that there was always stability in west coast cfb and it literally WAS the pac. The pac-12/10 was always around and was a beacon of stability in a college football landscape that changed a lot over the years since its inception. The pac proved for decades that there was stability in west coast cfb and it took a monumental fumbling of tv deals and ownership greed to break that down. There’s a bit of a vacuum now that the pac-12 is in rebuild mode but, as you can see, it hasn’t taken long for these mw teams to realize that the pac-12 is a desirable thing that they want to be a part of. If all of the departed schools could have it their way, they’d get their fair share of money while sticking to the west coast because it makes absolutely no sense for teams in California and the PNW to be traveling across the country for conference games in ANY sport. The pac simply makes sense
I was at the Wyoming game as well. Kicked field goals on the field at War Memorial Stadium all Friday afternoon. Those are definitely not group of 5 facilities. Sadly due to the fact that the state only has 577,000 people they aren’t attractive to the Pac 12. The Montana and Montana states honestly do see the point of moving up and sacrificing playing for national championships for getting lower tier bowl games. I read that at one point NDSU had a tv deal in state that paid them more than the MAC schools get from ESPN
I mean, how long until the G5 realize they’re playing a game they can’t compete long-term? The SEC, Big 10 and whoever else is able to compete at the big level will eventually cut the little guys off and close the door. The bottom feeder G5 and top level FCS have to come together to create a clear second level. I love the idea of Sac State moving up, but how long till the money dries up? How long till they find themselves in almost the same situation they’re in now simply with more costs? The Big West and WAC should be cautionary tales. I know a lot of my fellow FCS program fans are anxious to get in the FBS to grab a piece of the “big” money, but I see it all coming to a head soon(ish). I think the European Super League idea is something P4 power program execs want to implement and see a market much more willing to accept the outcome. I obviously won’t protest if Sac makes a move, but I see so much more upheaval coming, and don’t mind seeing how things play out.
The European Super League, an idea so terrible that fans revolted. Of course, here in America, fans don't matter, and money is allowed to ruin any and everything despite the fact revenue are at an all-time high. Who wants to see underdogs or the rich tapestry that is college football when a handful of schools can have expensive locker rooms?
Another issue is that Fresno State is always in the same conference as San Jose State because of their rivalry games, so why is a west coast team like San Jose State left out the PAC-12 while CSU gets to be there?
Fresno State actually ditched San Jose State when the Bulldogs left the Big West and tried to leave them again for the MWC in 2012 only to find themselves back in the same conference with the Spartans in 2013.
This just sounds like whining. Why is the Pac12 accused of poaching, here and on other videos, but that term was not used for what the SEC, Big10, and Big XII did? Pac12 is clearly the bigger name, or the MWC elite would not have left. Besides, the MWC was created out of poaching. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about the Pac12, they accepted wht happened and are responding the best way they can.
I've literally done numerous videos lamenting what happened to the Pac-12 and the greed of other conferences. To try and claim the Pac-12 is not being hypocritical is somewhere between laughable and delusional. Not only is it the definition of hypocritical, but history shows us this arrangement is set up to fail.
@thetouchback What is laughable is the left behind MWC schools complaining about this. Yes, I understand it is you complaining, not the schools. But Wyoming, UNM, AF, etc. were not concerned about Rice, Tulsa, and the other WAC schools they left behind. But, I get what you are saying. Maybe hypocritical just is not the correct term. Pac12 did not try to block it or claim the Big 10/12 were unethical.
@thetouchback Now that I have your attention, can I get your opinion on a ridiculous scenario in my mind? Pac12 and ACC merge but maintain separate conferences. So just share a commissioner, administration, media deal, etc. Essentially, it is a money saving ploy. Stanford, California, and SMU are placed in the Pac12, while Memphis State, Tulane, and East Carolina are invited to the ACC. Power in numbers and one less "major" conference poaching each of them. Both are more viable if Big10 or SEC take some schools.
I don't think the scenario is ridiculous, and honestly, if it weren't for existing TV contracts, it would probably happen. And it's not just the Pac/ACC. I'd argue that the MWC/AAC/C-USA/Sun Belt would be best off merging in a similar format. At the moment, there is strength in numbers, and having more TV inventory is vital. There would be some short-term financial losses but I think in the long run, the benefits would outweigh those both in terms of future TV contracts as well as reduced travel costs for non-football sports. The biggest fear the SEC and Big Ten probably have is the other 80+ schools uniting in some way and taking control of the sport.
A number of issues plague the MWC & WAC 1) the western and mtn time zones in general 2) altitude and travel issues 3) lack of athletic department spending between the top & bottom schools 3) limited NIL opportunities, national & local sponsors 4) lack of a high profile Linear TV deal (limited TV HHs in the MWC) 5) over-estimated self worth, school Presidents, but most of all weak ass programs.
Firstly, what exactly were we supposed to do? Joining the MWC is a death sentence, hell this entire venture is likely nothing more than prolonging our eventual relegation. But the administration at OSU/WSU couldn't simply do a merger without having a full fan revolt and boycott. More OSU/WSU fans were supportive of ending their programs entirely than joining the MWC and being anchored to SJSU and Hawaii, among others. Secondly, you act like PAC2 fans are happy with the move. Most are not, we were demanding the Big 12 or ACC, not this zombie project of G5 schools. It's why many sold their tickets to the Civil War last saturday.
Firstly, there were not more OSU/WSU fans supporting ending programs than joining the MWC. A few really loud ones on message boards and comment sections? Sure. It was the same when Idaho dropped from FBS to FCS. As for what to do, why not go about this in an open and transparent way with the Mountain West? It's not like the MWC had any power to stop this. Keeping a working relationship between the two seems fairly useful since we know just about everyone in the new Pac-12 will abandon it the first chance they get.
WRONG. Not Merging with the MWC is a death sentence, now both conferences are extremely diluted, and the Media deal will be far less for both conferences. Also, the money that would have been available with the merger has been split to the point that neither conference can make a deal to pull AAC teams away. Complete ClusterF@@k and terrible decision making from OSU/WSU leadership.
The West Coast is too busy paying the contracts of SEC coaches thru our tax dollars to host satisfactory college football. Where do u think Alabama gets the money to pay Nick Saban ??? Look- states like Alabama can't even afford to buy pencils for their public high schools. U do the math 👈
I've been following Wyoming, Nevada, both Montana schools and even both in Idaho since I was a kid. And I grew up in Chicago. Every D1 school, and many D2, have a national presence. Casuals, whose NCAA interest starts at Alabama and ends at Michigan, shouldn't speak for the millions of us who love, follow and watch all of D1.
If only there was some way to NOT include Boise State. They are such a self-important whiney little program. Boise State needs to go sit at the kiddie table. The PAC-12 is for adults.
The hypocrisy of WSU and OSU fans is so funny to me. All that whining about the "traitor" schools ditching them and "leaving a viable conference" for more money. Just turnaround and throw money at a bunch of Mt. West teams and do the exact same thing to somebody else. I don't blame them for clawing their way out of relegation, but to pretend that the initial realignment was a travesty and this round was completely different is laughable
PAC12 adds UTSA, UNLV, and Gonzaga. Huge media markets, two upstart football programs, incredible basketball addition. Win-Win! AAC adds Air Force. Love this because we get Army, Navy, AF in the same football conference! WAC adds UTEP, Tarleton State, and Texas State. All three bring large universities, growth potential, big markets, and TEXAS!
And the WAC did the same thing to the Big West over the years. And what do all three have in common? They all either existed in far fewer forms before eventually disappearing. Poaching schools from other Western conferences has only seen the poachee become the poacher and eventually fail itself.
Look, the Pac-12 is dead. Oregon State and Washington State need to find a home, not screw up the MWC. OSU and Wash St. should join the MAC and be down the road from their old neighbors in the BIG10
Hell fucking no. We were stabbed in the back and we're not gonna lay down and die just so nobody needs to worry about us anymore. Joining the MAC is one of the silliest ideas I've ever heard, Cal and Stanford might be able to afford sending all their sports to the east coast every other week, but smaller schools like WSU and OSU simply cannot.
OSU and WSU were only guilty of being in a conference led by George Kliavkoff. It is not their fault he was a complete tool, unable to make even the most basic of decisions.
@@thetouchback Anyone out there old enough to remember the Southwest Conference? The PAC-12 is done and will join the SWC, Border Conference, WAC (football), etc. in the pile of forgotten football conferences, leagues, associations....
There is no one out there who cares about college football out west more than me. This is my argument because repeating the same mistakes of the past is dumb and only leads to failure. And let's not act as if things have been all sunshine and roses for Oregon State and Wazzu in the past 20 years. By the way, my school got boxed out of the Mountain West because of Boise State and then had a terrible president who took us down to FCS. My school isn't in the discussion.
@@thetouchback im sorry dude but there are just certain schools that dont deserve to play on certain levels. They don't bring the revenue and just drag the others down. Its okay though, it doesn't mean they will end a program. Worst case scenario they just end up FCS but it would be fine. Look at Idaho, they are where they belong now and thriving
College football is the only sport out there that is not a meritocracy. At least not as it stands. Revenue should not be a relevant metric, and if you think it is, you are part of the problem. Better yet, college football is an inherently cyclical sport. One where teams ebb and flow. Why is now the appropriate time to separate everyone based on a metric that has zero to do with on-field results? Worse of all, why don't schools get to have a say on what classification they get to play at? The reason we love college football is because of the diverse range of teams and local connections across the country. Reducing the essence of the sport so a handful of schools can have even nicer locker rooms is preposterous.
@@thetouchback you will never separate the money from sports as long as there is people willing to watch it. And it isnt just about football, it's about the institutions. Schools like ULM, Kent State, Umass, SJSU, other MW leftovers (minus UNLV), and yes Wyoming for example are just not in the same league as Washington State, SDSU, Colorado State, Tulane, and Memphis. The are tiers in everything and Universities are no exception. Thats why i believe instead of letting the gap between the top and bottom continue to widen we should call it what it is and separate the league into divisions that have institutions closer to their own level. Say the top 80 go to the top tier and the rest form their own level. It would be better than to continue with the delusions and fake competitive aspects we have now.
The Mountain West killed the WAC a decade ago. This sucks but it’s how it works. MWC was a bully and now it’s just got its lunch money stolen by a victim whose fighting back.
The difference here is that the MWC will likely survive, just as a significantly weaker conference. Will you also also call the MWC when they poach teams from the Big Sky?
Came here to say this exact thing so thank you. Any way you cut it, it sucks. Just the nature of the beast though. Shit rolls down hill
And the WAC killed Big West football. All of these have something in common. The poaching conference doesn't survive in the long run. Which is the issue with what the Pac-12 is doing. There was a way to do this by undercutting Western college football and creating unnecessary animosity.
@@thetouchback And I agree, this sucks, but what are they to do? I prefer a rebuilt Pac-12 than a MWC relegation for OSU/WSU and the sport. The MWC would eventually get clipped by the East anyways, might as well have it done by a traditionally Western conference.
I do wish it was still Pac-10, WAC, MWC, Big West. But its just not going to happen. unfortunately, college football as we know it is dying. With the arrival of super conferences, a likely increasingly expanded playoff, and the NCAA already thinking about adding another year of eligibility for all players, FBS (Power 2) is trending towards its own professional league. Sucks. But enjoying it while it lasts.
Edit: love your CFB videos btw!
Big Sky would get schools like Central Washington, Western Oregon, Colorado Mesa and Colorado Mines and maybe CSU-Pueblo from D2 to backfilled. We need the west coast schools to restart football again.
The revised Pac12 is leaving the MWC flush with money making their rebuild possible.
$110M at least
We have seen what the rebuild looks like, and it didn't last: www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/wac/2001.html
I feel like it’s pretty fair the mountain west can add some fcs teams
West coast rebuild is moot.
Flush with money to do what get more schools and pay those fees to other conferences. Plus with the lawsuit the pac 12 has started most likely the exit fees are gonna be reduced significantly
I'm just physically done with this whole conference realignment shenanigans and I just want everything to go back to normal. Regionality and geographical culture was what made college football great. Now, this is just plain stupid.
“Solid footing” for Oregon State is not defined the same as solid footing at New Mexico. Oregon State is trying to get anywhere near the payout Oregon gets. Just because that won’t happen doesn’t mean Oregon State fans will accept Wyoming.
This is about being north of $10 million per school per year in a media contract, full stop. But don’t be surprised if the Pac can’t get CTZ schools. At least traveling to the Midwest isn’t too expensive. It’s going out west that costs real money. And THAT, as much as anything, is what causes problems with western college football.
20 years ago, what did the MWC do to other conferences, the same thing😕🤷♂️🧐. What do you expect the pac 12 to do? Back.
Then did the MWC pay out to another conference over a 100 million dollars. NO
If you are looking for someone to blame for college football realignment. You need to blame the TV Networks particularly ESPN and Fox.
The pac is taking care of the MWC. They are paying 10 mil on top of the 17 mil exit fees per school. That 19 mil is about 2x the tv revenue. If WSU and OSU got the same treatment they would’ve had a war chest 3-4 times larger than what they were left with. Even if they don’t take any other schools and Air Force stays, the MWC will be left with over 100 million dollars which they could use to help FCS schools transition. They could easily fund the Montana Schools, Sac State and potentially NDSU and SDSU.
You shouldn't feel conflicted. The MW almost killed off the WAC without blinking an eye. Why do you fail to see this?? There were bigger fish (UT/OU) that started this madness. The PAC twins did what they had to survive. I don't begrudge them. If anything Sac State might get an invite to the MW. This is a very strange take from you and i like your content.
The issue I have is that every time one of these Western conferences left another for the dead, the same fate ended up befalling them down the road. Survival shouldn't be the end goal because, ultimately, these conferences don't survive; they only end up delaying the inevitable. I believe there was a smarter way to do this that created a more sustainable ecosystem for all.
They should have just merged with the MWC. They are trying to keep the PAC-12 brand alive, but it will never be the same with the top Cal schools. Stanford should go independent and Cal should rejoin the PAC/MWC.
Stanford will join the b1g? Cal will go bankrupt and give up sports altogether.
If OSU and WSU joined the Mountain West, they’d each get $5 million a year and the rest of the conference wouldn’t even get a raise from their $3.5-4 million a year.
With a new Pac, WITHOUT CERTAIN MWC SCHOOLS, it’ll be closer to $10 million per school. Now I want you to understand what that says about who is paying the schools… which happens to be TV and other media networks.
They care about ratings, which is the only reason they care about football. They’re tired of being tied to bad football, they’re cutting the number of mouths they feed. As it stood, when the Mountain West first formed, they got a $7 million per school per year contract. Essentially, over time, the conference has taken a pay cut. That’s why OSU and WSU stayed at arms length, and that and travel costs- and the time zones- are why western football suffers.
Cal is in too much debt to survive as an independent and the MW doesn’t earn nearly enough TV revenue for OSU and WSU to remain a power 5 team
@@PCSPounder “WITHOUT CERTAIN MWC SCHOOLS”
*cough*Nevada Woofpack*cough*
@@terranceramirez4816 Not even my first choice in the MWC for that distinction. Nor the second.
Yeah it’s hypocritical and sucks, but the Pac12 knows it needs to be more aggressive to survive and those 4 schools had no real reason to stay outside of tradition. They know they need to become the premier G5 conference, so that’s what they’re doing.
The MWC should’ve 1000% been anticipating this, especially ever since they couldn’t come to an agreement to extend the scheduling thing. Not to mention it was already apparent that pretty much all of the notable MWC schools wanted into the Pac 12 in the first place.
In a perfect world, the MWC would’ve just merged in with the Pac 12 while retaining its revenue bump and all that, but I assume the people actually running the conference wouldn’t ever allow that happen.
Wyoming and Nevada are constantly disrespected by the coast schools. I lived in Reno for a while and it's a great sports city. Their facilities and tradition are great plus they have a solid baseball program.
I'm not as familiar with Laramie but I've been to three football and six basketball games at Wyoming. As a spectator, the stadiums were FBS quality and more comfortable than a bunch of the power conference stadiums I visited. Plus, one of my HS basketball coaches played for the Cowboys. Shout out to the Shamrocks! ☘️
Wyoming, Nevada and Colorado St would be solid additions to the new PAC-10.
I believe having an eight team coastal and eight team mountain divisions would grow western NCAA sports and improve D1 as a whole.
Living in Northern California, I have come to prefer going to Nevada games over Stanford ones. One of these days, I'll do a video on the history of Wolfpack football which is absolutely wild.
Lol. Where was this concern when the sec or b1g repeatedly expanded by raiding other conferences?
At least the Big XII is faring better than the Pac-12 when this wave of realignment started.
As things stand, I feel like I'd rather be in The American, particularly as an eastern program.
I remember when the AAC tried to poach a few Mountain West schools when this wave of realignment started. Obviously, it fell through and only been a backpage headline for about a week. 3 of those schools joined the New Pac-12.
The MWC isn't the PAC12's responsibility. They don't owe them anything.
And this is the logic that has killed off every other Western DI/FBS football conference. By the way, if it wasn't for the MWC, Wazzu and OSU are playing out one of those terrible New Mexico State 2010s independent schedules with home-and-homes and multiple FCS opponents.
@@thetouchbackGeography killed off every other Western conference, full stop. 85% of the population of the United States lives east of a line roughly from Sioux Falls, SD to just west of San Antonio. Of the remaining 15%, the vast majority live west of the Cascades/Sierra Nevada. Therefore, there are always a limited number of big time schools to hold a Western conference up, and once a conference loses some of the ones it has and doesn’t have access to others, it inevitably creates an Ostsiedlung that leads it into Texas, the nearest state to the West that has big time college football. That just about inevitably goes wrong as either the Texas school is too good for the conference and wants to leave, or it/they end up being dogs and pissing off the core members (as what happened to the WAC with Tulsa, Louisiana Tech and UTEP). But as long as schools have a standard of operating that they need to keep up they will search for yield instead of “just being United” with the dogs in their own neighborhood.
@thetouchback the Mountain West didn't agree to a scheduling alliance out of the goodness of their hearts. They had leverage over the Pac-12 and they used it to extract millions from the conference. One of the biggest reasons why the the Mountain West-Pac-12 talks broke down this month is because the MWC overplayed its hand
@@thetouchback the response to your post is, frankly, who gives a shit?
We can discuss whether or not the NCAA or whoever should get involved in college conferences to create a better balance and parity, and the merits of that all we want, but until something like that happens, each conference is a separate business entity with it's own goals. The ACC doesn't owe the American or Big East anything. The SEC and Big 10 aren't beholden to each other in any way. All have their own interests to look out for.
In an ideal world, there would be four major conferences, aligned by relative geography where your conference championship games would be your round of 8. But that's not the world we live in, and until we start with a clean sheet of paper reimagining college football... You have to accept that conferences do not and will not give a shit about each other long term.
USC and UCLA to include the pervious incompetent PAC12 leadership started this major dominos of greed and regulation.
This is collectively bad for the sport of college football.
The other issue is the NCAA also failed to reasonably compensate student athletes for years which lead to all these lawsuits and NIL.
The problem is this now, everyone is trying to chase (and yes I said trying) the BIG10 and SEC. These 2 conference make so much money now and have such an advantage with leverage and placement in the postseason, all these other conferences are trying to just survive and prevent irrelevance.
I understand your premise of protecting the integrity and health of college football, because I hate to see it become more and more like the NFL, which is bad for college football.
My fear now is this my friend… it almost feels like it’s too late for college football to go back to regional conferences and rivals that make sense.
This is overly critical of the Pac-12 and doesn't consider the position the two schools were in. Neither WSU nor OSU started realignment and they've lost so much because of it. What would you have rather the Pac-12 done than attempt to rebuild the conference? Reverse merge with the entire Mountain West? Just accept the fate that was dealt to them? A reverse merger was not a viable choice because of how top heavy the Mountain West is. Considering how hard the MWC was negotiating with scheduling, i wouldn't be surprised if they were driving a hard bargin with a merger.
As for the new Pac-12, I think its outlook is much better than you suggest. The conference is still has lot of geographical and cultural similarities between the members. Even adding Texas schools or Memphis/Tulane would be fine. It doesn't make any sense to condemn WSU and OSU when they're one of the losers of realignment. The schools and conferences who are truly to blame did it solely for money, not to survive like the Pac-12.
I disagree, it's quite obvious that the schools in the MWC are the best in the west. A full merger was the best possible outcome for all schools. The Merger would have given the PAC well over 300M to add schools Memphis and Tulane from the AAC bringing the conference to 16 Teams. They could have decided to go to 18 as well positioning 9 teams per division perfect for football, and having a conference Championship. The new PAC/MWC would have virtually guaranteed at least 1 playoff invite every year, maybe two on occasion. Now you have weakened both the PAC and MWC. AAC is actually in the best position to poach teams IMO, with the best Media Deal, whereas the 16-18 team PAC/MWC would have easily had the top G5 Media Deal
"Try to get three people at UC Davis to agree on anything".......LOL absolutely true.
haha
Big 10 and SEC along with their media partners changed football competition by having such higher media payouts to their two conferences.
PAC 12 is trying their best so one day they can compete at the highest level! They probably be better off trying to separate themselves; rather trying to keep up with the BIG 10 and SEC conferences.
Wish Wyoming could stick around with CSU and Boise. I'm just saying this also .... CSU football has been irrelevant for ever until this year why didn't Wyoming make a case for joining the Pac out side of the smaller market
I have a question what does he mean by what other schools did the OSU 1:53
Pac-12 schools basically dolled themselves up in an attempt to get invites elsewhere leaving Wazzu and OSU marooned. Now, Washington State and Oregon State are asking programs to do the same thing to schools in other conferences.
It seems to me, as a Cal fan based on Bay Area fandom since I was 12 due to a working uncle and otherwise looking in from 15,000km away, that the writing is on the wall for those that left. Those with true FBS competitive intentions to be big time football schools will never come back, and those with academic egos to fill would never come back with what's left out west.
So, the west coast footprint is Group of 5, now 6. That's it, get over it. So make the best conference you can from that so any team that is able to run the table has a chance at being respectable in the CFB playoff. To that end, WSU and OSU should have just fucking joined the MWC, or somehow figured out how to buy the MWC and bring them all to the PAC.
Personally, I love the idea of two very middling behemoth conferences. Bring the Idahos, Dakotas, Montanas, your Sac States and whatever else in. Between the PAC, MWC, Big Sky and the relevant teams from the CAA, you've got 28-32 teams.
Dream world now, but let the PAC pick the strongest 14-16, then the rest stay/step up to FBS to be the new MWC - alternatively the new MWC goes down to FCS and the west has an FBS conference to support and an FCS conference to support
My head is spinning. All I can add, is that, Rat Race falls into one of my top 5 all time movies. "Back on the bus, back on the bus." "We came on a rocket car...." 🤣🚀
I think the Montana schools and Idaho (maybe UC David) will eventually, for now think they add NMSU and UTEP
It's unreasonable to expect the OSU and WSU to just roll over and die because they'll be accused of being hypocrites. Wazzu just built a big new stadium and now have to pay that off which was not going to happen with MWC money.
OSU renovated their stadium and did not build a new one. Wazzu has flirted with major debts since I was on the Palouse more than a decade ago. The extra five million a year the new Pac-12 hopes to earn doesn't solve the cash crunch, nor does it provide any long-term stability.
@@thetouchback to be honest with you about this. If you are looking for someone to blame for this situation. Put the blame on the TV networks for causing the problems with realignment.
I agree with the Grand Canyon creating a football team. It would take probably a decade but they certainly have the money for it I'm sure
I think both the MWC and PAC 12 will be fine.
I feel like your argument here is that this cycle of unstability in west coast cfb was made no better by the rebuild of the pac-12 and you’re comparing it to the whole big west/wac/mw cycle that has played out for the past few decades. However, I don’t think you realize that there was always stability in west coast cfb and it literally WAS the pac. The pac-12/10 was always around and was a beacon of stability in a college football landscape that changed a lot over the years since its inception. The pac proved for decades that there was stability in west coast cfb and it took a monumental fumbling of tv deals and ownership greed to break that down. There’s a bit of a vacuum now that the pac-12 is in rebuild mode but, as you can see, it hasn’t taken long for these mw teams to realize that the pac-12 is a desirable thing that they want to be a part of. If all of the departed schools could have it their way, they’d get their fair share of money while sticking to the west coast because it makes absolutely no sense for teams in California and the PNW to be traveling across the country for conference games in ANY sport. The pac simply makes sense
My guy, it can't possibly be worse than a 2 team conference.
I was at the Wyoming game as well. Kicked field goals on the field at War Memorial Stadium all Friday afternoon. Those are definitely not group of 5 facilities. Sadly due to the fact that the state only has 577,000 people they aren’t attractive to the Pac 12.
The Montana and Montana states honestly do see the point of moving up and sacrificing playing for national championships for getting lower tier bowl games. I read that at one point NDSU had a tv deal in state that paid them more than the MAC schools get from ESPN
I mean, how long until the G5 realize they’re playing a game they can’t compete long-term? The SEC, Big 10 and whoever else is able to compete at the big level will eventually cut the little guys off and close the door. The bottom feeder G5 and top level FCS have to come together to create a clear second level.
I love the idea of Sac State moving up, but how long till the money dries up? How long till they find themselves in almost the same situation they’re in now simply with more costs? The Big West and WAC should be cautionary tales. I know a lot of my fellow FCS program fans are anxious to get in the FBS to grab a piece of the “big” money, but I see it all coming to a head soon(ish). I think the European Super League idea is something P4 power program execs want to implement and see a market much more willing to accept the outcome.
I obviously won’t protest if Sac makes a move, but I see so much more upheaval coming, and don’t mind seeing how things play out.
The European Super League, an idea so terrible that fans revolted. Of course, here in America, fans don't matter, and money is allowed to ruin any and everything despite the fact revenue are at an all-time high. Who wants to see underdogs or the rich tapestry that is college football when a handful of schools can have expensive locker rooms?
Shoutout Palermo. Dybala was a monster there
They followed the Buzzards 😂😂
Another issue is that Fresno State is always in the same conference as San Jose State because of their rivalry games, so why is a west coast team like San Jose State left out the PAC-12 while CSU gets to be there?
Fresno State actually ditched San Jose State when the Bulldogs left the Big West and tried to leave them again for the MWC in 2012 only to find themselves back in the same conference with the Spartans in 2013.
CSU brings Denver
Denver media market
Mountain west should take Davis and sac state
I have a feeling PAC 12, might be back to power status.
This is the perfect moment for some network to force a Big 12 invite to WSU and OSU 😂
Just followed you on Twitter. I work for Vandal Athletics. Would love to connect.
Nah PAC conference is going to bring back power 5 conference because the bigger conferences are going to self destruct
The bigger conferences won’t self destruct atleast for football
Great biblical tie-ins.
BOO!
This just sounds like whining. Why is the Pac12 accused of poaching, here and on other videos, but that term was not used for what the SEC, Big10, and Big XII did? Pac12 is clearly the bigger name, or the MWC elite would not have left. Besides, the MWC was created out of poaching. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about the Pac12, they accepted wht happened and are responding the best way they can.
I've literally done numerous videos lamenting what happened to the Pac-12 and the greed of other conferences. To try and claim the Pac-12 is not being hypocritical is somewhere between laughable and delusional. Not only is it the definition of hypocritical, but history shows us this arrangement is set up to fail.
@thetouchback What is laughable is the left behind MWC schools complaining about this. Yes, I understand it is you complaining, not the schools. But Wyoming, UNM, AF, etc. were not concerned about Rice, Tulsa, and the other WAC schools they left behind.
But, I get what you are saying. Maybe hypocritical just is not the correct term. Pac12 did not try to block it or claim the Big 10/12 were unethical.
@thetouchback Now that I have your attention, can I get your opinion on a ridiculous scenario in my mind?
Pac12 and ACC merge but maintain separate conferences. So just share a commissioner, administration, media deal, etc. Essentially, it is a money saving ploy. Stanford, California, and SMU are placed in the Pac12, while Memphis State, Tulane, and East Carolina are invited to the ACC. Power in numbers and one less "major" conference poaching each of them. Both are more viable if Big10 or SEC take some schools.
I don't think the scenario is ridiculous, and honestly, if it weren't for existing TV contracts, it would probably happen. And it's not just the Pac/ACC. I'd argue that the MWC/AAC/C-USA/Sun Belt would be best off merging in a similar format. At the moment, there is strength in numbers, and having more TV inventory is vital. There would be some short-term financial losses but I think in the long run, the benefits would outweigh those both in terms of future TV contracts as well as reduced travel costs for non-football sports.
The biggest fear the SEC and Big Ten probably have is the other 80+ schools uniting in some way and taking control of the sport.
Buddy the pac 12 is literally doing what was done to them to another conference 🥴
A number of issues plague the MWC & WAC 1) the western and mtn time zones in general 2) altitude and travel issues 3) lack of athletic department spending between the top & bottom schools 3) limited NIL opportunities, national & local sponsors 4) lack of a high profile Linear TV deal (limited TV HHs in the MWC) 5) over-estimated self worth, school Presidents, but most of all weak ass programs.
If MWC schools are so weak, why do SEC, Big 12, and formerly Pac-10 teams keep losing to them?
Firstly, what exactly were we supposed to do? Joining the MWC is a death sentence, hell this entire venture is likely nothing more than prolonging our eventual relegation. But the administration at OSU/WSU couldn't simply do a merger without having a full fan revolt and boycott. More OSU/WSU fans were supportive of ending their programs entirely than joining the MWC and being anchored to SJSU and Hawaii, among others.
Secondly, you act like PAC2 fans are happy with the move. Most are not, we were demanding the Big 12 or ACC, not this zombie project of G5 schools. It's why many sold their tickets to the Civil War last saturday.
Firstly, there were not more OSU/WSU fans supporting ending programs than joining the MWC. A few really loud ones on message boards and comment sections? Sure. It was the same when Idaho dropped from FBS to FCS.
As for what to do, why not go about this in an open and transparent way with the Mountain West? It's not like the MWC had any power to stop this. Keeping a working relationship between the two seems fairly useful since we know just about everyone in the new Pac-12 will abandon it the first chance they get.
WRONG. Not Merging with the MWC is a death sentence, now both conferences are extremely diluted, and the Media deal will be far less for both conferences. Also, the money that would have been available with the merger has been split to the point that neither conference can make a deal to pull AAC teams away. Complete ClusterF@@k and terrible decision making from OSU/WSU leadership.
The West Coast is too busy paying the contracts of SEC coaches thru our tax dollars to host satisfactory college football. Where do u think Alabama gets the money to pay Nick Saban ??? Look- states like Alabama can't even afford to buy pencils for their public high schools. U do the math 👈
We were di6ked last year - paybacks are a bitch
As the old saying goes, don't get bitter, get better.
I'm sick of this crying in college ball nowadays. Harden the fuck up.
Complaining about others crying while crying is delicious irony.
This narrator ruined this video
I think you are living in a fantasy world. Must be nice.
Yes, no way, the schools he wants make any money or form a conference. No one would watch them outside of the cities they are in
Because Memphis playing in a half-full Liberty Bowl and Tulane are such massive national draws.
I've been following Wyoming, Nevada, both Montana schools and even both in Idaho since I was a kid. And I grew up in Chicago. Every D1 school, and many D2, have a national presence.
Casuals, whose NCAA interest starts at Alabama and ends at Michigan, shouldn't speak for the millions of us who love, follow and watch all of D1.
If only there was some way to NOT include Boise State. They are such a self-important whiney little program. Boise State needs to go sit at the kiddie table. The PAC-12 is for adults.
As a Vandal, I know that more than most. I'll never forgive Kustra for the nasty and inebriated comment which has since been used to hold Idaho down.
The hypocrisy of WSU and OSU fans is so funny to me. All that whining about the "traitor" schools ditching them and "leaving a viable conference" for more money. Just turnaround and throw money at a bunch of Mt. West teams and do the exact same thing to somebody else. I don't blame them for clawing their way out of relegation, but to pretend that the initial realignment was a travesty and this round was completely different is laughable
Feeble attempt to stay relevant pac12...shame on u!!
PAC12 adds UTSA, UNLV, and Gonzaga. Huge media markets, two upstart football programs, incredible basketball addition. Win-Win!
AAC adds Air Force. Love this because we get Army, Navy, AF in the same football conference!
WAC adds UTEP, Tarleton State, and Texas State. All three bring large universities, growth potential, big markets, and TEXAS!
We're supposed to care that the Pac 12 is crippling the conference that wounded the WAC and then later killed it?
And the WAC did the same thing to the Big West over the years. And what do all three have in common? They all either existed in far fewer forms before eventually disappearing. Poaching schools from other Western conferences has only seen the poachee become the poacher and eventually fail itself.
Look, the Pac-12 is dead. Oregon State and Washington State need to find a home, not screw up the MWC. OSU and Wash St. should join the MAC and be down the road from their old neighbors in the BIG10
Hell fucking no. We were stabbed in the back and we're not gonna lay down and die just so nobody needs to worry about us anymore. Joining the MAC is one of the silliest ideas I've ever heard, Cal and Stanford might be able to afford sending all their sports to the east coast every other week, but smaller schools like WSU and OSU simply cannot.
@@chrisb4859 OSU and WSU are guilty of..."you snooze, you lose". By the time the admins' woke up they were left with their thumbs up their @&& LOL🤣
OSU and WSU were only guilty of being in a conference led by George Kliavkoff. It is not their fault he was a complete tool, unable to make even the most basic of decisions.
@@thetouchback Anyone out there old enough to remember the Southwest Conference? The PAC-12 is done and will join the SWC, Border Conference, WAC (football), etc. in the pile of forgotten football conferences, leagues, associations....
Wow someone is butt hurt
The only reason you have this argument is because your school is being left out. Sucks to Suck but we don't care
There is no one out there who cares about college football out west more than me. This is my argument because repeating the same mistakes of the past is dumb and only leads to failure. And let's not act as if things have been all sunshine and roses for Oregon State and Wazzu in the past 20 years.
By the way, my school got boxed out of the Mountain West because of Boise State and then had a terrible president who took us down to FCS. My school isn't in the discussion.
@@thetouchback im sorry dude but there are just certain schools that dont deserve to play on certain levels. They don't bring the revenue and just drag the others down. Its okay though, it doesn't mean they will end a program. Worst case scenario they just end up FCS but it would be fine. Look at Idaho, they are where they belong now and thriving
College football is the only sport out there that is not a meritocracy. At least not as it stands. Revenue should not be a relevant metric, and if you think it is, you are part of the problem.
Better yet, college football is an inherently cyclical sport. One where teams ebb and flow. Why is now the appropriate time to separate everyone based on a metric that has zero to do with on-field results?
Worse of all, why don't schools get to have a say on what classification they get to play at? The reason we love college football is because of the diverse range of teams and local connections across the country. Reducing the essence of the sport so a handful of schools can have even nicer locker rooms is preposterous.
@@thetouchback you will never separate the money from sports as long as there is people willing to watch it. And it isnt just about football, it's about the institutions. Schools like ULM, Kent State, Umass, SJSU, other MW leftovers (minus UNLV), and yes Wyoming for example are just not in the same league as Washington State, SDSU, Colorado State, Tulane, and Memphis. The are tiers in everything and Universities are no exception. Thats why i believe instead of letting the gap between the top and bottom continue to widen we should call it what it is and separate the league into divisions that have institutions closer to their own level. Say the top 80 go to the top tier and the rest form their own level. It would be better than to continue with the delusions and fake competitive aspects we have now.
@@thetouchback you can be local but teams like UNA should have no business playing with Alabama or Auburn