Frustrated, moody, alcoholic abusive father, messy room, no girlfriends, highly passionate, unappreciated most of his life, doesn't get much more metal than that
People wonder how I could possibly love classical and metal, but it's pretty obvious. Technical metal is deeply infused with classical elements. Metal is definitely not as musically complex as classical (then again, no other genre of music is), but the elements are definitely there.
well the scales and modes used in metal and rock are typically the same as used in classical... that's why blues, jazz, hiphop sound nothing like classical...different scales and modes.
take randy rhoads for instance, classically trained guitarist and one of the very best, if not the best, metal guitarist to have lived. it's the way the music is structured. classical and metal use the same tricks.
Ya but once you get into technical metal it is almost directly classically influenced and composed in almost the same way. Different than rock and classic heavy metal
Beethoven built monumental structures out of simple ideas. He was a master of variation and theme development. But he also had a gift for melody. He wrote some of the most beautiful melodies in classical music, and he was the first romantic. A true genius!
There's a guy who's done a really good lead guitar interpretation and that's what first made me realise that Beethoven had managed to write a song perfect for electric guitar a couple of hundred years before it even existed!
beethoven was artistic.. the majority of current bands focus on shitloads of distortion and the heaviest and lowest tone they can get especially with the new djent shit. Are they both loud and full of energy? yes, but beethoven had proper melody and rhythm. Why am I thinking too deep about this?
Metal is my favorite genre of music. It also happens to be the most diverse. I never listened to the kind of crap you're referring to to begin with and still don't. Plenty of excellent Metal bands who don't have those kind of influences.
Metal is just an absolutw underrated genre. There are soo many new things in music history like extreme dissonances and weird rhythms or the different sounds from e guitars or drums and new singing styles. But you never talk about it in school. Never. And that's fuckin' sad.
knalltuete97 Geil! Meiner wusste auch was growlen ist, als jemand mal was von A day to remember vorgestellt hat, hat er ganz genau erklärt, wie der gutturale Gesang funktioniert :D Aber es ist nicht selten, dass Musiklehrer Metal hören, nehme ich mal an. Ist ja durchaus interessant und komplex \m/
ovrava Try some Dillinger Escape Plan. It's Mathcore so the rhythm is veeeery confuse. They also have Jazz influences like in the song ''One of us is the Killer''. You can find weird harmonies in progressive metal. Try some Mastodon and concentrate on their riffs.
Not in some minds. The term arrogance means that you know (not only think you know) that you are better in something or have greater knowledge about something than others and showing it.
Ivo Sigma but you can be arrogant regardless of genuine competencies. if we imagine the idea that perception is your reality than it is fathomable that arrogance stems from a reality that differs from the one we experience. arrogance marks overconfidence but what may be overconfident to one may be justified not only to the one executing the act in question but to even a separate casual onlooker. this leaves overconfidence is a pergatory, intangible it means nothing more than what we decide it means and much like so many things is nothing but a human born concept which only holds merit should the general consensus agree with it.
His audience is much younger than he is, and probably average kids, as in not musicians. I can imagine many texts going out complaining of being bored. Sad but true. It was a waste of time to try to get me to appreciate classical music until I was in my thirties. Also sad but true.
Perhaps but as it is a community piano there might be a local tuner who would be willing to do the job for a moderated price (I thought community thinking and acting was what TED was all about).
I realized this exactly last year that in music class I wasn't taught how to understand music, what I should hear... We listened to the classic composers just for the sake of knowing them, we had no idea WHY they were great composers. So this talk is just simply great with all the demonstrations :)
Amon Janus Have you learned everything you know without a teacher? Also, aren't there things you won't know even EXIST unless someone explains them to you?
If only the guy had an electric guitar, I think his sanity would've been spared. He wanted a bigger sound than a symphony orchestra could provide. He wanted *more* and *bigger* sound. The guy would've been right at home playing guitar for Metallica or something.
sorry but if you think there is something in this world that sounds louder and bigger the symphony orchestras you've been hearing the wrong orchestras, i say this as a violinist and bassist for 13 years haha
Zalemones1 So, you've been hearing it right from inside it then. A single Marshall half stack could blow away any orchestra in volume but as far as big sound goes, an electric guitar with the gain cranked is about as big as one can get. I'm not putting down the symphony orchestra. It's just that one can only go so far with it. I played viola in my high school strings orchestra. Admittedly, that's not the same thing by any stretch but I have heard orchestras. I've also been to band practice with a Marshall half stack. You have to put cotton or something in your ears. Please no viola jokes. I've heard them already.
Coming from a guy who has played full stacks in a doom band. Nothing was as loud and as intense as hearing the royal philharmonic live. Get bent chump. All instruments have a key part in music.
Paul TheSkeptic gotta agree with you on that haha the power of amplification is something to be reckoned with, and i will spare you from my viola jokes :P
Good music by true artists captures a feeling, tells a story, creates an atmosphere... It doesn't matter how complex or simple it is, or what instruments you use, Beethoven was a genius, not because he uses three notes or a simple melody or intricate composition, but because he marvellously tells a story and in a new way.
Alex Barbella the story in to live is to can be interpreted as a man living a depressed life or a corrupt life with the heavy parts being his physical more open suffering and the acoustic parts as his suffering more mentally (thats my opinion in a sense)
My best teacher taught about TEMPO. She said that today, everyone tries to play in a frantic way to impress. She said "SLOW DOWN, hear the silence between the notes. Don't be a virtuoso. Be a musician".
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He bases the entire talk on some of Bernstein's sayings, which are, by the way, very arguable. Not only the form and structure is great, he also wrote extremely beautiful and singable melodies, and complex harmonies. And he was not unaccepted by tje public his whole life: near to the end he was very popular, and people recognized him as the greastest composer alive. I like the comparisson with rock and heavy metal, because indeed Beethoven had that rebelious and rule-breaking spirit.
Just imagine the music that Mozart or Beethoven could have composed if they could have edited scores in a tablet, used synthesizers to create new sounds and musical effects. The possibilities are endless. Having at hand all the editing tools of a sound engineering studio. They would have gone mad with creativity. One piece after another in a matter of just days. They already had all the music in their heads, they only needed to pour it out as fast as possible.
The difference between Beethoven and heavy metal today is he took a strong message and only used simple chords and rhythms and still managed to make music that everyone enjoyed. Heavy metal today if you can understand their screaming actually is usually pretty deep and meaningful, however a lot of people just don't enjoy the guitar screeching and screaming and such that comes with the music. I don't think heavy metal is underrated or ahead of its time I just think most of them haven't found what Beethoven did in a way to connect with all audiences and still make their music the way they want. The closest they have come would be with System of a Down. They're not necessarily heavy metal but they took their screaming and loud angry music and still managed to make melodies out of them which is why everyone regardless of whether or not they like metal or Rock has heard of them and often enjoys it.
lol true about System man, but what about Metallica? I'd argue they have been the best at combining melody with metal due to their popularity in the world
I loved the comment about learning to LISTEN to music. I spent decades feverishly practicing my bass guitar, trying to perfectly learn to play all of my favorite songs. Then, a few years ago, I realized I was in something of a rut. I put my instrument aside for the most part, and started to just LISTEN to a lot of different music. Just listen, discover, and learn. It's made a huge difference.
Hey! He dissed the Seventh Symphony! Blasphemy! That one is beautiful (well, they all are in their own ways). That was a great talk! The speaker is absolutely right. The movie "Immortal Beloved" touches on the idea that Beethoven's music was considered almost obscene. Fortunately, powerful women (and many men) at the time understood Beethoven's genius. I would have probably been as shocked as anyone if I went to a concert expecting something melodious and familiar. I didn't know Beethoven's would furiously cross out whole stanzas! That's especially amazing knowing that Beethoven couldn't test the stanza because he was deaf! He could just "see" that he didn't like it. Well, if anyone deserved to be egotistical and arrogant, Beethoven did.
Beethoven sure had a way with writing symphonies, with style and grace that’s all his own! If there were copyright laws back then, I would have given him the rights to his own music! I mean, if I existed during his time period. If Beethoven was alive today, he would be surprised that he has become a classical music legend! However, he still lives on in his music. Like the old saying goes, “Legends never die!” And I think that Beethoven has left a great legacy behind in this world! Not just his music, but the fact that a deaf man can make it in the world as a music composer! I also write music myself, and if Beethoven can make it in the world as a deaf composer, then so can I! I may be schizophrenic, but Beethoven has inspired me as an influence! Thank you Beethoven for your contribution to music today!
Good talk, although I wish he could have explained how similar use of motific development is the driving force behind some of metal's most classic works.
Points well made, Ross Cooke and John Wentz. Someday I'll learn not to make rash generalizations in public forums. I should clarify that I'm drawn to metal that repeats a riff more so than develops it, so naturally I would think most of it does simply repeat. Even though I'm well familiar with Master of Puppets, it never occurred to me those riffs mutate over the course of the piece, and I'm not familiar with Morbid Angel. I will check them out and listen with the same level of focus I give to "classical." It's hard though when the riff gets into your limbic system and takes over.
I like these modern living room myths about people turning from Beethoven music to heavy metal fans. Metal fans always seek for approval of the classical crowds.
I’m a full on metal head (only thirteen) I love ted talks and this explains my thoughts about my music that nobody around me likes. But I love Beethoven as well and think the same things and it’s the same thing, nobody around me likes him.
Ludvig Van Beethoven was way ahead of his time. People did not understand his repertoire. The music he composed that was frowned upon during his lifetime are the very same ones he is celebrated for hundreds of years after his demise.
The theme of the slow movement of the 7th is probably one of the most powerful incantations ever spelled! Poor Lady G.didn't even imagine to be compared to such a Titan!
I can feel all his slight changes no matter how small, the emotion is great. Always loved Beethoven. He will always be the greatest rockstar of his time!
He definitely hit a number of bad notes, but to be honest I don't think there's much point judging the recorded quality of the audio. His vocal mic also has a harsh quality - so I would put the quality of the recording down to the recording or the way everything has been mixed and/or mic'd on the night. But don't forget that recording in a live venue is a totally different animal to recording in a studio. I also have a high-end audio system on my computer, just FYI. But all that being said, my original point still stands: Don't judge audio quality based on a phone speaker!
When you take classical music and mix it with rock or metal, you get prog. Ask any prog musician. They list classical or jazz music as one of their influences.
The majority of most Mozart and Haydn symphonies started with loud chords (Mozart- symphony no28, 34, 41, 39 etc) this style of approach in terms of starting a symphony was not new in the 19th century, in fact it was more appropriate than not to not start a symphony with a loud tutti chord. The example he gave with the 40th symphony is a very poor one indeed, Symphony no40 is one of very few Mozart symphonies where Mozart opens the symphony with a quiet melody etc. A lot of the information given here is just historically informative.
It's interesting how he draws a similar parallel between Lady Gaga's genius of simplicity along with Beethoven's... If Ludwig van Beethoven had had a producer, recording studio, and dance choreographer to do his music, he would've been the Father of Rock Pop way before anyone even knew what it was...
@Alex Barbella: It makes total sense though. Look, pop music is a bad example for genius of simplicity because if you listen to those songs over and over, you'll grow sick of them. Admittedly, I don't listen to the so-called pop music because I grow sick of them after the first listen but I do listen to a lot of classical and metal. There are a lot of simple melodies in classical, but it's how the song is structured that makes it a complex work, but there are still very simple things in the piece where the addition of it all makes it a fully fledged work. In metal, there is a band called Darkthrone which has a song in particular that is 6 minutes but the whole song only has 2 simple riffs that never changes. What is amazing here is how they made those 2 very simple riffs and played over and over again in the song and they never get boring. I've been listening to this song for years and it never ever gets old even though the song is as simple as it can get. So as I was saying, YES there is genius in simplicity, and I just explained two different examples as to why it makes sense. Cheers!
@@MrMrHotDog0303 genius is very often simplicity. That's why when people experience it they wonder why they didn't think of it themselves. A lot of music can be very complex but meaningless
Wait wait wait... He claims that his band Cello's on Fire is original and creative... They are LITERALLY doing what Apocalyptica does, just with a keyboardist and a guitarist you can hardly hear. And i don't mean, they are putting a new spin on that Apocalyptica song that put a new spin on Metallica's Master Of Puppets... they are literally playing Apocalyptica's Master of Puppets... I thought the whole talk was leading up to that Irony, but i never did.
In next school year I will be student of Conservatory. I need to thank you for your presentation, I remembered why I love so much classicial music and why I wanted to go to Conservatory.
Sometimes when listening to Visvaldi, I hear riffs of rock music. Of course classic music was here first. And I have no idea what his personality was like. P.S. Doesn't repetitiveness and lack of harmonics show Beethoven more as punk-rock musician, than a heavy metal one?
wow - what a talented guy, the keyboard skills are very impressive! I love his view on things from that era and how it translated and has influenced modern music.
Awesome TED talk for Youth Nicolas Ellis!! I learned some great points and got a refresher on some other things I haven't thought of in some time. I definitely agree that he was the Heavy Metal of the Early 19th Century. I've played in a few metal groups and also did a paper on Beethoven in music college. :) I always kind of viewed his work as perfect compositions...in a way similar to some early Metallica songs like "Master of Puppets" which was showcased in the beginning. If anyone needs a visual of how Beethoven rocks, check out the mall scene in "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" towards the end!! :)
Beethoven's Symphonie #7 2nd mouvement is among my favorite, I understand what he's saying (Beethoven goes to the essence of the melody) but his melodies are numerous and recognizable Pastoral Symphony, Moonlight Sonata to name a few and of course the 5th symphonie and Piano Concerto.
So Tommy Iommi, Lemmy Kilmister, Steve Harris, Dave Mustaine, James Hetfield among others are the greteast genius of music of the 20th century? I wish I could time travel and see how Music schools would look like in 200 years, "today we are going to learn a masterpiece: Painkiller".
bach - hard rock, heavy metal vivaldi - speed metal paganini- neo-classical metal mozart- symphonic metal beethoven - power metal chopin - emo tchaikovsky - progressive metal
Watch "Joy Of The Guitar Riff", which discusses Beethoven the same way. His Fifth's opening is a riff, just like any rock band's riff, from Dave Davies "You Really Got Me" to the White Stripes' "Seven Nation Army". It's the building block of the music.
This is so inspiring. I'm exactly like Beethoven. always an outcast because of my obsession for heavy metal while people surrounding me only listen to pop music only because they're popular.
Shocking.....high school level discussion of Beethoven ...his music and life ...his perceptions of rock and its history are absurdly uninformed. Ted talks....what have you done...
I can't believe he didn't even mention that the "three short notes and then a long one" is Morse code for V "dot, dot, dot, dash". V for Victory. I remember being taught that in a music class in school when I was 13, and I never forgot it.
@@hedgehog1965uk That's an anachronism if I've ever seen one. The Morse Code was developed and put into use about 20 years after Beethoven wrote his 5th.
@@2905sid Really? That's very interesting, thanks. Actually, when I think about it, that makes sense. I just believed what my music teacher told me. Morse Code obviously wouldn't have been invented until there was some way of transmitting it. I don't know why this never occurred to me before. I wish I could go back to 1978 and say to my teacher "Errr...hang on a minute Sir".
each metallica album is a beethoven symphony,each album have their chords and style,listen to kill em all then listen to and... justice for all a 40 min symphony
Just happened on this now - very interesting. I always thought there was similarity in phrasing between some heavy metal riffs and classical music. Beethoven was always my favorite classical composer.. I really didn't know why until now.
5th Symphony, is the Destiny Who knocks on the door. The Destiny of becoming deaf, and the repeated knockings are the inevitability of it and the anxiety he felt while slowly becoming deaf
I’m not sure how accurate that is, Bagatelle No. 25 in A minor or known as “Für Elise” translated from German as “For Elise.” Implying that there was a special woman in his life, however, no one knows who she was.
BMperc22 Most are talented but don't get to show it because they don't have control over their own careers and have to make money for the record label. It's quite sad.
I've listened to several CD's of Beethoven's music and none of those pieces he played were ever played that fast on them. Rather than a pianist performing for his audience, it sounds more like a player piano hastily plucking the strings. I enjoyed the talk... I just wish he would've slowed down his playing a bit to give the music the gravitas it deserves.
Frustrated, moody, alcoholic abusive father, messy room, no girlfriends, highly passionate, unappreciated most of his life, doesn't get much more metal than that
that should be dark metal!!!
Sounds a lot like me...hope I dont go deaf
Felice Fiorenza I’ve been told I was gonna go blind since I was 13. I’m 48 now and I can still see. Kinda.
yeah, very enticing isn't it?
@@randalllayton7452 I havd a theory that all those beatings Beethoven got from his dad damaged his ears.
People wonder how I could possibly love classical and metal, but it's pretty obvious. Technical metal is deeply infused with classical elements. Metal is definitely not as musically complex as classical (then again, no other genre of music is), but the elements are definitely there.
I love metal too, I'm not much into classical music, but I totally agree that Classical music and metal have so much similarities
I get the feeling that you two would love 'In Fear and Faith'.
well the scales and modes used in metal and rock are typically the same as used in classical... that's why blues, jazz, hiphop sound nothing like classical...different scales and modes.
take randy rhoads for instance, classically trained guitarist and one of the very best, if not the best, metal guitarist to have lived. it's the way the music is structured. classical and metal use the same tricks.
Ya but once you get into technical metal it is almost directly classically influenced and composed in almost the same way. Different than rock and classic heavy metal
Beethoven built monumental structures out of simple ideas. He was a master of variation and theme development. But he also had a gift for melody. He wrote some of the most beautiful melodies in classical music, and he was the first romantic. A true genius!
This is also a great example of why people today like heavy metal, and people react to that as they did to beethoven back then,
It's also evident in moonlight sonata 3rd movement...
yep :)
It gives me the chills every time...
There's a guy who's done a really good lead guitar interpretation and that's what first made me realise that Beethoven had managed to write a song perfect for electric guitar a couple of hundred years before it even existed!
Do you mean Dr. Viossy?
nice! i didn't think so many people would think this too!
If I had a time machine, I would find Beethoven and take him to a Meshuggah concert
no
Greedy Rick He'd be glad he was deaf.
Maybe we could be seeing him headbanging that wig off of his head ... who knoweth, but the lord ?
:P
TrevRockOne lol
Greedy Rick I think he would get bored in about 30 seconds.
On the other hand, can we say that Heavy Metal bands are the Beethoven of the current times?
beethoven was artistic.. the majority of current bands focus on shitloads of distortion and the heaviest and lowest tone they can get especially with the new djent shit. Are they both loud and full of energy? yes, but beethoven had proper melody and rhythm. Why am I thinking too deep about this?
Metal is my favorite genre of music. It also happens to be the most diverse. I never listened to the kind of crap you're referring to to begin with and still don't. Plenty of excellent Metal bands who don't have those kind of influences.
Thugzilla music doesn't have to be melodic it can be rthymic in nature. and djent can be some of the most raw and rthymic of most music.
Thugzilla Check out anything by Meshuggah and try to tell me that it isn't a rhythmic masterpiece. All of those guys are immensely talented
I checked out Meshuggah.. I can understand why people like them, but they're not really my type.. I'm more of a Butcher babies kinda guy
Metal is just an absolutw underrated genre.
There are soo many new things in music history like extreme dissonances and weird rhythms or the different sounds from e guitars or drums and new singing styles.
But you never talk about it in school. Never. And that's fuckin' sad.
Fr3akymet4l
I have a music teacher (grammar school in germany) who actually is too qualificated for his Job. Anyway we spoke about heavy metal.\m/ :D
knalltuete97 Geil! Meiner wusste auch was growlen ist, als jemand mal was von A day to remember vorgestellt hat, hat er ganz genau erklärt, wie der gutturale Gesang funktioniert :D
Aber es ist nicht selten, dass Musiklehrer Metal hören, nehme ich mal an. Ist ja durchaus interessant und komplex \m/
Do you have any interesting examples of interesting rythms, harmony or melodies in metal?
ovrava Try some Dillinger Escape Plan.
It's Mathcore so the rhythm is veeeery confuse. They also have Jazz influences like in the song ''One of us is the Killer''.
You can find weird harmonies in progressive metal. Try some Mastodon and concentrate on their riffs.
ovrava Cacophony was a very great band. To poor they released just 2 albums.
I don't think that was arrogant at all, it was the truth and nothing more.
Mox_au arrogance is always truth in some minds
you're a poet Harry
Not in some minds. The term arrogance means that you know (not only think you know) that you are better in something or have greater knowledge about something than others and showing it.
Ivo Sigma but you can be arrogant regardless of genuine competencies. if we imagine the idea that perception is your reality than it is fathomable that arrogance stems from a reality that differs from the one we experience. arrogance marks overconfidence but what may be overconfident to one may be justified not only to the one executing the act in question but to even a separate casual onlooker. this leaves overconfidence is a pergatory, intangible it means nothing more than what we decide it means and much like so many things is nothing but a human born concept which only holds merit should the general consensus agree with it.
Mox_au A fantastic quote for any great artist for all time!
the crowd seems to be very quiet. I find this Ted Talk very informative
I'd be quiet with jokes like his too...
I thought the same, but I think they aren't mic'd up, so it's hard to hear them if they laugh (unless it gets loud at the end, for instance)
Because i believe the Audience is mostly School age Children and young Adults, Under Supervision by teachers to stay quiet.
His audience is much younger than he is, and probably average kids, as in not musicians. I can imagine many texts going out complaining of being bored. Sad but true. It was a waste of time to try to get me to appreciate classical music until I was in my thirties. Also sad but true.
Beiber fans obviously.
If I could go back in time, I would invent the mosh pit at a Beethoven concert.
Some of his contemporary people said if you never heard Beethoven improvising on the piano you didn't listen to anything yet.
Mozart, Paganini, Liszt and other well known music stars had mosh pits. Human behaviour in that matter didn't rly changed ;P
Dreambro1 Most metal uses Minor scales as well.
In your lifetime time travel will be invented and you will use it to go back in time and create moshing
Nothing says civilized than a wall of death in a full orchestra concert.
OPEN UP THE PIT
Someone please tune that piano.
and the reverb is awful, why does he destroy his playing?
Perhaps but as it is a community piano there might be a local tuner who would be willing to do the job for a moderated price (I thought community thinking and acting was what TED was all about).
so I wasn't alone!
Sounds like a consumer grade baby grand. Pity, he deserves a nicer instrument.
I don't even have relative pitch, and I noticed
It's nice to see Harry Potter doing some other activities other then magic after Hogwarts.
he definififlidily would have been a better cast that daniel redcliff
No... they obviously found a way to clone Peter Brady! ;)
Dane Wagner It's ....other THAN magic.....
And being a corpse that saves a man that got stranded on an island.
Terry Pratchett once wrote that you can either do magic or do music, but you can't do both. Glad to know that Harry Potter made the best decision.
does he djent?
aMaeb
gzk
Epic.
Actually, he does :D check grosse fuge
A man of culture, I see...
Beethoven, Deaf Metal star xD
good one !
Haha, i see what you did there!
Too soon :((
A lot of Metal stars eventually end up deaf.
To the top!
I realized this exactly last year that in music class I wasn't taught how to understand music, what I should hear... We listened to the classic composers just for the sake of knowing them, we had no idea WHY they were great composers. So this talk is just simply great with all the demonstrations :)
Amon Janus
Have you learned everything you know without a teacher? Also, aren't there things you won't know even EXIST unless someone explains them to you?
If you want to know why the great composers are great, there's a channel called "Inside the Score" here on TH-cam that is worthy to check out. :)
If only the guy had an electric guitar, I think his sanity would've been spared. He wanted a bigger sound than a symphony orchestra could provide. He wanted *more* and *bigger* sound. The guy would've been right at home playing guitar for Metallica or something.
we need beethovencore in this world
sorry but if you think there is something in this world that sounds louder and bigger the symphony orchestras you've been hearing the wrong orchestras, i say this as a violinist and bassist for 13 years haha
Zalemones1 So, you've been hearing it right from inside it then. A single Marshall half stack could blow away any orchestra in volume but as far as big sound goes, an electric guitar with the gain cranked is about as big as one can get. I'm not putting down the symphony orchestra. It's just that one can only go so far with it.
I played viola in my high school strings orchestra. Admittedly, that's not the same thing by any stretch but I have heard orchestras. I've also been to band practice with a Marshall half stack. You have to put cotton or something in your ears. Please no viola jokes. I've heard them already.
Coming from a guy who has played full stacks in a doom band. Nothing was as loud and as intense as hearing the royal philharmonic live. Get bent chump. All instruments have a key part in music.
Paul TheSkeptic gotta agree with you on that haha the power of amplification is something to be reckoned with, and i will spare you from my viola jokes :P
actually, its thrash metal *adjust glasses and snorts*
Metalheads: SLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!
Slayer: BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good music by true artists captures a feeling, tells a story, creates an atmosphere... It doesn't matter how complex or simple it is, or what instruments you use, Beethoven was a genius, not because he uses three notes or a simple melody or intricate composition, but because he marvellously tells a story and in a new way.
Doppe1ganger yes I can't agree more. Although this is something metal music lacks, the ability to create a story without having to use lyrics
listen to 'To live is to die' by metallica it can kinda tell a story without using lyrics
Pixelshady then what is the story in To Live is to die
You lack knowledge of good metal bands
Alex Barbella the story in to live is to can be interpreted as a man living a depressed life or a corrupt life with the heavy parts being his physical more open suffering and the acoustic parts as his suffering more mentally (thats my opinion in a sense)
My best teacher taught about TEMPO. She said that today, everyone tries to play in a frantic way to impress. She said "SLOW DOWN, hear the silence between the notes. Don't be a virtuoso. Be a musician".
He bases the entire talk on some of Bernstein's sayings, which are, by the way, very arguable. Not only the form and structure is great, he also wrote extremely beautiful and singable melodies, and complex harmonies. And he was not unaccepted by tje public his whole life: near to the end he was very popular, and people recognized him as the greastest composer alive. I like the comparisson with rock and heavy metal, because indeed Beethoven had that rebelious and rule-breaking spirit.
Just imagine the music that Mozart or Beethoven could have composed if they could have edited scores in a tablet, used synthesizers to create new sounds and musical effects. The possibilities are endless. Having at hand all the editing tools of a sound engineering studio. They would have gone mad with creativity. One piece after another in a matter of just days. They already had all the music in their heads, they only needed to pour it out as fast as possible.
Would Mozart be the Iron Maiden of the day? Is there a more accurate band to compare him to?
ProJatior fleshgod apocalypse?^^
YES, Fleshgod Apocalypse is an excellent comparison in my eyes.
A heavy band would be comparable.
Lifelover Meh Apocalypse is not metal like Iron Maiden
ProJatior beethoven cannot be compared to anyone because no one today is at all as incredible and genius as Beethoven
The difference between Beethoven and heavy metal today is he took a strong message and only used simple chords and rhythms and still managed to make music that everyone enjoyed. Heavy metal today if you can understand their screaming actually is usually pretty deep and meaningful, however a lot of people just don't enjoy the guitar screeching and screaming and such that comes with the music. I don't think heavy metal is underrated or ahead of its time I just think most of them haven't found what Beethoven did in a way to connect with all audiences and still make their music the way they want. The closest they have come would be with System of a Down. They're not necessarily heavy metal but they took their screaming and loud angry music and still managed to make melodies out of them which is why everyone regardless of whether or not they like metal or Rock has heard of them and often enjoys it.
lol true about System man, but what about Metallica? I'd argue they have been the best at combining melody with metal due to their popularity in the world
Maybe he is right, l grew up loving Heavy Metal and Beethoven is my favourite composer
I loved the comment about learning to LISTEN to music. I spent decades feverishly practicing my bass guitar, trying to perfectly learn to play all of my favorite songs. Then, a few years ago, I realized I was in something of a rut. I put my instrument aside for the most part, and started to just LISTEN to a lot of different music. Just listen, discover, and learn. It's made a huge difference.
What a great presentation, nice job! Makes me have a whole new appreciation for Beethoven!
It may sound dull on piano, but from an orchestra it's an absolute marvel!
Hey! He dissed the Seventh Symphony! Blasphemy! That one is beautiful (well, they all are in their own ways).
That was a great talk! The speaker is absolutely right. The movie "Immortal Beloved" touches on the idea that Beethoven's music was considered almost obscene. Fortunately, powerful women (and many men) at the time understood Beethoven's genius. I would have probably been as shocked as anyone if I went to a concert expecting something melodious and familiar.
I didn't know Beethoven's would furiously cross out whole stanzas! That's especially amazing knowing that Beethoven couldn't test the stanza because he was deaf! He could just "see" that he didn't like it.
Well, if anyone deserved to be egotistical and arrogant, Beethoven did.
Beethoven sure had a way with writing symphonies, with style and grace that’s all his own! If there were copyright laws back then, I would have given him the rights to his own music! I mean, if I existed during his time period. If Beethoven was alive today, he would be surprised that he has become a classical music legend! However, he still lives on in his music. Like the old saying goes, “Legends never die!” And I think that Beethoven has left a great legacy behind in this world! Not just his music, but the fact that a deaf man can make it in the world as a music composer! I also write music myself, and if Beethoven can make it in the world as a deaf composer, then so can I! I may be schizophrenic, but Beethoven has inspired me as an influence! Thank you Beethoven for your contribution to music today!
Good talk, although I wish he could have explained how similar use of motific development is the driving force behind some of metal's most classic works.
Alienart
Master of puppets?
Points well made, Ross Cooke and John Wentz. Someday I'll learn not to make rash generalizations in public forums. I should clarify that I'm drawn to metal that repeats a riff more so than develops it, so naturally I would think most of it does simply repeat. Even though I'm well familiar with Master of Puppets, it never occurred to me those riffs mutate over the course of the piece, and I'm not familiar with Morbid Angel. I will check them out and listen with the same level of focus I give to "classical." It's hard though when the riff gets into your limbic system and takes over.
baethoven
His passion and dedication is amazing. Great speaker as well
i think Beethoven was like heavy metal, and Bach like death metal
other way around brother. lol metal is influenced by Beethoven because everyone is influenced by him
other way around brother. lol metal is influenced by Beethoven because everyone is influenced by him
And Paganini was Shred guitar
I haven't thought about Unreal Tournament in over a decade
Mozart was the pop star guy
Good video game music tends to follow Beethoven's principles. Establish a theme or motif, and then expand and explore from there.
So true!
Exactly why I admire game music and prog rock/metal
Exactly why I admire game music and prog rock/metal
I will always give Beethoven the credit for what got me to fall in love with music that he produced and what later morphed into my love for metal.
I like these modern living room myths about people turning from Beethoven music to heavy metal fans. Metal fans always seek for approval of the classical crowds.
What are you going on about?
Your former comment.
Yes yes yes! You got it! I'm teaching Beethoven's 3rd symphony as music appreciation, and it is loud and in your face with massive chords!
I’m a full on metal head (only thirteen) I love ted talks and this explains my thoughts about my music that nobody around me likes. But I love Beethoven as well and think the same things and it’s the same thing, nobody around me likes him.
I absolutely love the second movement of the 7th symphony, ain't no way this is boring to me.
Ludvig Van Beethoven was way ahead of his time. People did not understand his repertoire. The music he composed that was frowned upon during his lifetime are the very same ones he is celebrated for hundreds of years after his demise.
I loved this video, It's amazing how Beethoven created these beautiful symphonies! Bravo!!!
The theme of the slow movement of the 7th is probably one of the most powerful incantations ever spelled! Poor Lady G.didn't even imagine to be compared to such a Titan!
I pity beethoven he didnt get to hear even his own master pieces
BreadnButterJohnski He sure can hear them now! 😁
But the empty void of nothingness cant reproduce sound...
He sure could hear his master pieces. He didn't go completely deaf until after his music career.
Johnathon Shakovitz Beethoven was completely deaf by about 1819, after which he still wrote dozens of works, particularly up to about 1924
So Beethoven was over a hundred years old? He died in 1827 muchacho
I can feel all his slight changes no matter how small, the emotion is great. Always loved Beethoven. He will always be the greatest rockstar of his time!
Wow!!! It's really a great speech, full of light, strength and knowledge. Congrats, my Maestro!
Very engaging thankyou Nicholas. I now have some understanding of why the favourite composer of my youth was so criticised in his time
is it my phone, or does that piano sound horribly twangy?
It's cuz he's slamming the keys a little too hard
It's your phone. Judging audio quality on a phone speaker is always going to end in tears
He definitely hit a number of bad notes, but to be honest I don't think there's much point judging the recorded quality of the audio. His vocal mic also has a harsh quality - so I would put the quality of the recording down to the recording or the way everything has been mixed and/or mic'd on the night. But don't forget that recording in a live venue is a totally different animal to recording in a studio. I also have a high-end audio system on my computer, just FYI.
But all that being said, my original point still stands: Don't judge audio quality based on a phone speaker!
The piano was being picked up by multiple mics so sounded delayed and weird
terrible acoustic and recording
Chopin is heavy metal. doom metal.
Maathiu Ra Yin debussy bro 👌
Sam Blake i eat Debussy... 😗
Maathiu Ra Yin Chopin is prog dude.
Fadhil Nugraha HE IS ALL OF THESE THINGS!!!
Wagner is power metal.
When you take classical music and mix it with rock or metal, you get prog. Ask any prog musician. They list classical or jazz music as one of their influences.
AntonDoesMusic I'm more to Progressive Djent.
aka furiously closeted meshuggah-emulation, lul
Symphony X, Ayreon, Rush, Yes, Animals As Leaders, Dream Theater...
I becomes closer to neocalssical instead, think of Malmsteen , Michael Romeo of symphony X (as guitarist not the band)
Building complex structures out of simple components is always the golden achievement of any type of creative engineering.
if beethoven is heavy metal what is wagner?
Queen
Blackened Death Metal
Burzum.
Franz Teufel Death metal 😂
A classical composer and nothing more
Very enjoyable talk and puts the music in historical context. Thank you!
The majority of most Mozart and Haydn symphonies started with loud chords (Mozart- symphony no28, 34, 41, 39 etc) this style of approach in terms of starting a symphony was not new in the 19th century, in fact it was more appropriate than not to not start a symphony with a loud tutti chord. The example he gave with the 40th symphony is a very poor one indeed, Symphony no40 is one of very few Mozart symphonies where Mozart opens the symphony with a quiet melody etc. A lot of the information given here is just historically informative.
This guy seems like a really cool and down to earth person. I really admire people with such musical talent.
It's interesting how he draws a similar parallel between Lady Gaga's genius of simplicity along with Beethoven's... If Ludwig van Beethoven had had a producer, recording studio, and dance choreographer to do his music, he would've been the Father of Rock Pop way before anyone even knew what it was...
That's not what he's saying. Lady gaga do not build on those simple melodies, but good composers (like Beethoven) do.
laydbakk1 there is no genius of simplicity that doesn't make any sense
Actually there was a disco hit back in the 70's that sampled Beethoven's 5th. Go check it out. It was a hit for Walter Murphy!
@Alex Barbella: It makes total sense though. Look, pop music is a bad example for genius of simplicity because if you listen to those songs over and over, you'll grow sick of them. Admittedly, I don't listen to the so-called pop music because I grow sick of them after the first listen but I do listen to a lot of classical and metal. There are a lot of simple melodies in classical, but it's how the song is structured that makes it a complex work, but there are still very simple things in the piece where the addition of it all makes it a fully fledged work.
In metal, there is a band called Darkthrone which has a song in particular that is 6 minutes but the whole song only has 2 simple riffs that never changes. What is amazing here is how they made those 2 very simple riffs and played over and over again in the song and they never get boring. I've been listening to this song for years and it never ever gets old even though the song is as simple as it can get.
So as I was saying, YES there is genius in simplicity, and I just explained two different examples as to why it makes sense.
Cheers!
@@MrMrHotDog0303 genius is very often simplicity. That's why when people experience it they wonder why they didn't think of it themselves. A lot of music can be very complex but meaningless
Beethoven would so dig heavy metal, and virtually all genres of music. He would know and discern between good music of any genre and pablum.
Wait wait wait... He claims that his band Cello's on Fire is original and creative... They are LITERALLY doing what Apocalyptica does, just with a keyboardist and a guitarist you can hardly hear. And i don't mean, they are putting a new spin on that Apocalyptica song that put a new spin on Metallica's Master Of Puppets... they are literally playing Apocalyptica's Master of Puppets... I thought the whole talk was leading up to that Irony, but i never did.
I was thinking the same thing: "Oh, Apocalyptica! No? okay, I hope he at least mentions them". He didn't.
Yes. Apocalyptica is original on that genre.
@@teemunator Yeah well, it's a cover band with different intstruments. breathtakingly creative and original huh
Yess, one of my many favorites is Fur Elise. I love Beethoven's music, it is very moving, intence and soothing at the same time.
"there is only one Beethoven"
You must admit, he WAS right.
they tried to make a sequel, but judging by rotten tomatoes, nobody liked it...
In next school year I will be student of Conservatory. I need to thank you for your presentation, I remembered why I love so much classicial music and why I wanted to go to Conservatory.
Sometimes when listening to Visvaldi, I hear riffs of rock music. Of course classic music was here first. And I have no idea what his personality was like.
P.S. Doesn't repetitiveness and lack of harmonics show Beethoven more as punk-rock musician, than a heavy metal one?
Punk lacks the melodies though
The 2nd movement of Symphony 7 was boring??? I could have sworn at the premier that the 2nd movement in particular was requested for an encore
Boring on piano not on orchestra.
This TED was 15min long?! It felt like 5min
wow - what a talented guy, the keyboard skills are very impressive!
I love his view on things from that era and how it translated and has influenced modern music.
best thing I have watched for a long time
Awesome TED talk for Youth Nicolas Ellis!!
I learned some great points and got a refresher on some other things I haven't thought of in some time. I definitely agree that he was the Heavy Metal of the Early 19th Century. I've played in a few metal groups and also did a paper on Beethoven in music college. :) I always kind of viewed his work as perfect compositions...in a way similar to some early Metallica songs like "Master of Puppets" which was showcased in the beginning.
If anyone needs a visual of how Beethoven rocks, check out the mall scene in "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" towards the end!! :)
Beethoven: "Yes, that sounds quite satisfying."
Everybody else: "MUCH. TOO. LOUD."
Beethoven's Symphonie #7 2nd mouvement is among my favorite, I understand what he's saying (Beethoven goes to the essence of the melody) but his melodies are numerous and recognizable Pastoral Symphony, Moonlight Sonata to name a few and of course the 5th symphonie and Piano Concerto.
So Tommy Iommi, Lemmy Kilmister, Steve Harris, Dave Mustaine, James Hetfield among others are the greteast genius of music of the 20th century? I wish I could time travel and see how Music schools would look like in 200 years, "today we are going to learn a masterpiece: Painkiller".
bach - hard rock, heavy metal
vivaldi - speed metal
paganini- neo-classical metal
mozart- symphonic metal
beethoven - power metal
chopin - emo
tchaikovsky - progressive metal
Some of Lady Gaga's more obscure pieces are very skillfully written.
And what's your opinion of Jean Claude Debussy?
always finish on da Bach.. neva on Debussy
Oh my lol
Kandharp Kk if Beethoven is like The Who then Debussy is like Simon and Garfunkel
Debussy is chord structure. Further up the evolutionary scale.
The second movement of the 7th is my favorite
7:42 song name
He just said. It’s the 7th Symphony
Good talk! Instructive and well crafted!!!
Watch "Joy Of The Guitar Riff", which discusses Beethoven the same way. His Fifth's opening is a riff, just like any rock band's riff, from Dave Davies "You Really Got Me" to the White Stripes' "Seven Nation Army". It's the building block of the music.
I disagree with his opinion on Beethovens 7th - in the context of the whole 7th the 2nd movement is brilliant!!!
sometime someone said that there was a beethoven's piece that was for when the friends get together again.
does anybody would tell wich one?
QUE FANTÁSTICO ACENTO. EXELENTE DICCIÓN. ES MUY FÁCIL ENTENDERLE. TODOS LOS MÚSICOS QUE HABLAN EN PÚBLICO DEBERÍAN EXPRESARSE DE ÉSA MANERA.
This is so inspiring. I'm exactly like Beethoven. always an outcast because of my obsession for heavy metal while people surrounding me only listen to pop music only because they're popular.
Shocking.....high school level discussion of Beethoven ...his music and life ...his perceptions of rock and its history are absurdly uninformed. Ted talks....what have you done...
TED has always been extremely hit or miss.
I can't believe he didn't even mention that the "three short notes and then a long one" is Morse code for V "dot, dot, dot, dash". V for Victory. I remember being taught that in a music class in school when I was 13, and I never forgot it.
@@hedgehog1965uk That's an anachronism if I've ever seen one. The Morse Code was developed and put into use about 20 years after Beethoven wrote his 5th.
@@2905sid Really? That's very interesting, thanks. Actually, when I think about it, that makes sense. I just believed what my music teacher told me. Morse Code obviously wouldn't have been invented until there was some way of transmitting it. I don't know why this never occurred to me before. I wish I could go back to 1978 and say to my teacher "Errr...hang on a minute Sir".
@@hedgehog1965uk Haha, makes for a cool story though, doesn't it?
each metallica album is a beethoven symphony,each album have their chords and style,listen to kill em all then listen to and... justice for all a 40 min symphony
Whoever mixed the audio on the recording should have made an attempt to get rid of the echo on the piano.
"Rage over a lost penny" is a really good example of Beethoven's work with repeating motif.
I could actually feel my will to live seeping out through my shoes while watching this.
Why?
Adam Woodhams
Presentation and subject matter. Both were poor.
the second movement of the 7th symphony is my favourite movement ever
It's a great movement. the first movement of Beethoven's 9th Symphony is my favorite.
4th movement of his 3rd symphony for me. It's got this charm and it's the most Beethoven symphony of the lot.
this is a wonderful talk!!!
Just happened on this now - very interesting. I always thought there was similarity in phrasing between some heavy metal riffs and classical music. Beethoven was always my favorite classical composer.. I really didn't know why until now.
Building a whole work of music about one musical idea? Reminds me of Meshuggah's Catch 33
中文翻譯！太好了。對於台灣音樂教育功勞極大，是各大專院校音樂系目前還做不到的。樂壇很多人留學美英法德，返台之後卻無法為學子提供這些觀念上的啟迪。感謝 TED。感謝翻譯者。
Classical music + distortion = metal
5th Symphony, is the Destiny Who knocks on the door. The Destiny of becoming deaf, and the repeated knockings are the inevitability of it and the anxiety he felt while slowly becoming deaf
Before Cellos on Fire was even born there was Apocalyptica playing Metallica on cello.
Yeah, they released a whole album and they weren't using electro-acoustic either.
I’m not sure how accurate that is, Bagatelle No. 25 in A minor or known as “Für Elise” translated from German as “For Elise.” Implying that there was a special woman in his life, however, no one knows who she was.
back then there was beethoven. now we have Animals as Leaders
Tenor Sax B I think Luke was talking about the band... "Animals as Leaders"
never too late to start listening to that band!
I love the Animals. Eric Burden rocks! Leaders of Rock and Roll!
Tyrander165 totally agree with you. but do check out the band "animals as leaders"
I have been educated, and now I feel old. LOL
we need more people like that that are explaining to people that todays pop artists are not really artists
BMperc22
Most are talented but don't get to show it because they don't have control over their own careers and have to make money for the record label. It's quite sad.
I really enjoyed that speech
Actually his 5th Symphony is what Metal Music now a days tends to sound like. Especially Symphonic Power Metal.
I have to appreciate how a classical conductor can't play a one note pop tune as soon as its syncopated.
I've listened to several CD's of Beethoven's music and none of those pieces he played were ever played that fast on them. Rather than a pianist performing for his audience, it sounds more like a player piano hastily plucking the strings. I enjoyed the talk... I just wish he would've slowed down his playing a bit to give the music the gravitas it deserves.