The little details is what makes this job so nice I would like to work like that all the time but a lot of clients want steam boiler installation for peanuts 🥜
Thank you for your comments! We don't put in very many boilers. And I'm ok with that. We're going to put them right, or we don't do the job at all. We make the proposal at our price so we make a profit and if someone wants it cheaper, can they decline our services.
You are the real deal my friend. From the oversized drop header, to the offset glass and everything in between. It’s not always easy to exist in a world of half price hacks, but anyone who knows what they’re looking at can see that this was worth whatever the asking price was. It’s easier to hide cut corners in a hot water system. Not so easy with steam. Nice job.
you all prolly dont give a shit but does anyone know of a trick to get back into an instagram account?? I was dumb lost the account password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me.
@Magnus Barrett i really appreciate your reply. I found the site thru google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff now. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
I am in fact a Steam boiler installer, and obviously I install hot water boilers as well,I LOVE THAT DROP HEADER! Not a fan of Burnham at the moment especially after the V-8 Fiasco. I believed in Burnham so much I installed them in my home for myself and our tenants…… We now have 3 Weil Mclains… This is clean and beautiful work. I applaud this work… it’s art in my eyes.
I thank you for your kind words! I may mention in the video that Burnham sells a piping kit to allow a drop header, to which we modify to suit the individual job conditions. Yes, Burnham has had quite a few issues with some of their various boiler lines. The V-7 was notorious. I wasn't aware of the V-8 issues. Sorry to hear about your issues. The high Independence failure rate was, to my knowledge, not publicly acknowledged, but they came out with a new "improved" line, the SteamMax. Someone else can be the "beta tester" on that one. The MegaSteam, so far, has lived up to the hype, I'm happy to say. Wish that they didn't fight the conversion to gas with that boiler.
Great job on the install I appreciate technicians that know what they are doing.. The only detail that I could pick is the oil supply line isn't jacketed as far as I know the national and international code requires it to be jacketed.
Thank you very much! You are correct that new installed oil lines should be jacketed. Good eye! These lines were existing but we advised the customer to have their oil supplier replace the line as well as several other updates. The customer sold the building. We've been back only once since then to do a tune-up and a water-side cleaning.
@@gordonschweizer5154 I just had New England SteamWorks put a Megasteam into my home, and I can see these details in my installation. New England SteamWorks did a great job!
@@kinokind293 Thank you for praise and kind words! Your suggestion that valves should be placed on both sides of the feeder are exactly what is called for by Hydrolevel for their VXT in their installation instructions. Currently, we add just one valve on the inlet of the VXT when we do a steam boiler install. So far, we find that one 3/8" M x F IP ball valve serves us very well in the rare event when called upon to repair a VXT feeder.
Hi Gordon - Great videos! You said you used either a schedule 80 black or stainless steel nipple for the boiler drain(s). I'd think schedule 80 would be good. Also in the absence of an electrolyte (water) stainless and carbon steel together should be OK. When you introduce water as an "electric bridge" connecting both there would be galvanic corrosion, but at what rate I do not know. My choice would be carbon steel to carbon steel. What are your thoughts on this?
Thank you! Right now, the results with the stainless/malleable nipple/fitting mix below the waterline have been promising, that is to say, no visible/significant corrosion seen when the joints are taken apart after two years service. Stainless seems to be a bit cheaper than sch 80 and easier to get. Sch 80 works in these scenarios by simply offering more mass to corrode before failure. The stainless offers the possibility of being recoverable and reused at the end of the boiler's life cycle. The major disadvantage of stainless is the greater likelihood of it galling and having the threads rip out.
Textbook near boiler piping! I'm curious on the mega-press. You used some for the wet return. I'll first admit that I don't know a lot about steam. I'm just curious if you can use mega-press fittings on the near boiler piping? Do the fittings respond well to expansion and contraction? Great work on this install!
Thank you! Ah, mega-press. It "can" be used for steam lines. Not sure it "should" be used for steam carrying pipe as I question the longevity of the o ring. We used it here on the water return to get out of a jam. It works. We'll use it on wet returns for repairs. It's also pricey and non-reversible.
This looks great. I just have a question. If you come straight out of the boiler like that and drop the pipe making the stream have to push down couldn't that make the pipes bang? I've been told the stream naturally only wants to travel upwards and that down causes Resistance.
Thank you for your kind words! To your question: Steam, as I understand it, does not really "care" which direction it is going (being a gas), but instead is looking for the lowest pressure point. Up. Down. Sideways. It matters not to the Steam. As for water, on the other hand, it most certainly *does* matter. Water, on Earth, wants to go "down". And the drop header is supposed to wring the steam dry by letting the water to drop down to the bottom of the header, and hence down the equilizer, and back to the boiler, whilst the Steam flows serenely on to the vents (aka, the low pressure points).
The only flaw I see is the malleable iron fittings. On steam, always use cast or forged steel threaded fittings. Malleable iron is pliable. Over heating and cooling cycles the fittings will stretch out. And produce leaks. The other thing is never use Teflon tape on a steam system. If you have F+T traps with small machines openings in them the Teflon can come loose and clog these ports over time. Other than that it is a superb job.
Thank you for your comments and compliments. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the use of malleable fittings. I see no advantages to using cast iron fittings and have not experienced the leaks you describe, even with import quality fittings. I will also continue to use PTFE tape on steam systems, as I have not experienced the clogging of ports of traps, etc. I have no doubt you have, and I have no doubts your admonishments as to its (over)use have validity. We should always try to skip the first threads with tape to avoid it getting inside pipes. To your point, I indeed have seen PTFE get inside gas pipe from others' poor use of it and generally eschew its use on gas for that reason (and it is forbidden in our area on fuel gas as well as fuel oil)
Thanks for the reply Gordon! I come from the industrial/commercial side of the industry. Power plants, central distribution systems etc. Our standards are a little over the top sometimes. 2000# superheated steam is a little different than a 3# residential boiler. Again thanks for the reply. Not every day we get to talk to fellow fitters across the country!
Oh heck yeah, in my world of 2 psi dampf ist kinderspiel. No way to compare with what you do! I once had a talk with a USN Master Chief and mentioned that I heat whole buildings with 1/2 psi steam and he disbelievingly answered "That's not steam. That's a LEAK!" I answered him, "With respect, Chief, I only have to heat the building, not get it to move at 30 Knots!"
@@gordonschweizer5154 "... not get it to move at 30 knots!". Perfect answer, in addition to being a Scrabble triple word score, sorta. I wish my submarine Captain uncle were still around to hear this comment, I'm sure it'd get a laugh out of him. Btw, sometimes it can be hard to get a laugh out of a sub commander, they're "built" that way ....
A reason to use cast instead of malleable fittings is ease of disassembly. Every try to crack a malleable fitting with a lump hammer? But try pricing those 2 x 3 cast elbows. Ouch!
Thank you so much. The use of Burnham's "drop header" piping kit saves a lot of time and takes the guesswork out. As to your question about skimming... one of the disadvantages of putting in a boiler during the warmer months is that it cannot be run for long periods without baking everyone in the building, so we haven't skimmed it, as there is nothing to skim... yet.
This looks very nice , I have a question .. I would love to use teflon on steam lines (supply and return ) but the head plumber at company i work for says we should never use teflon on steam lines because it causes more leaks ... i just been in the trade 3 years ... I personally think hes wrong .. any advice ? thanks in advance :)
Thank you for your comments! We use Teflon AND pipe dope together on steam and water lines. And that works for us. Generally Teflon in many areas is not allowed by code on gas and fuel oil lines. It tends to get overused and can allow leaks on fuel oil connections and it can break off in bits inside the pipe and may cause other issues. Bottom line, if your boss says no Teflon on anything, then that's pretty much between you and him. I'm just some guy on TH-cam. Be well, and stay safe.
Thank you for your question. Before I reply, just to be sure, what exactly do you mean by "steam fittings" and what advantage would be to the customer in using them?
You didn't use steam fittings. You used fittings that where ment for gas. So if you need to back out a fitting you are never able too. A steam fitting you can break off. Those gas fittings you can not.
I probably met you when you and Frank were looking over or working on the system at Stony Run Friends meeting hall. You were above a ceiling working on some sort of steam emitter. It was a strange setup.
Thank you for asking, but sadly, no. I believe the last time I was in Queens was for the 1964 world's fair when I was but a wee lad. There should be someone closer (and very likely better) than me in the NYC area as you are at the World Capital Of Steam
The issue with changing out the "psycho-guard" to a proper normal low water cut off is one of liability. Change out The major safety control of a new steam boiler to one not approved by the manufacturer and the installing contractor may be on the hook for any warranty. Don't know that for sure, but I don't want to find out the hard way. Boiler manufacturers generally look for any excuse not to pay out a claim. Does it really interrupt the heating cycle? In a word, yes. Every ten minutes during a run, it will shut down the burner for 90 seconds to make sure there is no foam tricking the senor probe. In theory, a good idea. In practice, absolutely maddening!
@@elgordo271 update: I like my cyclegard now. It’s a 1590 so it’s every 15 minutes. It’s not maddening to me anymore, it’s reassuring. I love a reliable measure of the water on my LWCO because as we know, the Hartford loop is just theater
I just saw 2 videos in a row on a TH-cam auto feed and after watching 100 of your videos I’m seeing what my inexperienced eyes I see as ‘flaws.’ (And they might not be) Sometimes the risers are not very high (or what looks like not high enough) off the boiler because the existing header is not very high. It seems if they came up past the header and essentially “came back at it” via a drop header type arrangement, they’d have the best of both worlds; they’d have adequate rise off the boiler and the benefits of a drop header, dryer steam. Is not having high enough risers off the boiler a common problem? I’ve now seen several videos of people who are obviously not as experienced as you are and many times the risers are quite short.
It never ceases to amaze me how off-spec steam piping can be and sorta kinda work. What's a little water hammer? What really destroys good steam trying to emerge from the boiler is dirty contaminated water. I've seen dirty water in new boilers just laugh at my "perfect" piping, drop header and all, and just geyser up into the mains.
@@gordonschweizer5154 I guess I shouldn't be surprised myself. I can semi wrap my mind behind the Google Armchair Genius. I'm a 30 year warm air furnace/ AC guy and im gobsmacked at things I see HVAC guys do. I hold them in near contempt. :)
The little details is what makes this job so nice I would like to work like that all the time but a lot of clients want steam boiler installation for peanuts 🥜
Thank you for your comments!
We don't put in very many boilers.
And I'm ok with that.
We're going to put them right, or we don't do the job at all.
We make the proposal at our price so we make a profit and if someone wants it cheaper, can they decline our services.
You are the real deal my friend. From the oversized drop header, to the offset glass and everything in between. It’s not always easy to exist in a world of half price hacks, but anyone who knows what they’re looking at can see that this was worth whatever the asking price was. It’s easier to hide cut corners in a hot water system. Not so easy with steam. Nice job.
I thank you very much for your kind words.
you all prolly dont give a shit but does anyone know of a trick to get back into an instagram account??
I was dumb lost the account password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me.
@Preston Jaden Instablaster ;)
@Magnus Barrett i really appreciate your reply. I found the site thru google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff now.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Magnus Barrett It did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I am so happy:D
Thanks so much you really help me out !
Great video and install in a tight area. I like the near boiler piping for the sight glass, drains, skim and pressure reliefs!
Thank you very much!
I watch a lot of boiler vidios,on u tube Gordon, and you`re the best.
Thank you, you are too kind!
One beautiful install Mr Gordon.
I thank you !
I am in fact a Steam boiler installer, and obviously I install hot water boilers as well,I LOVE THAT DROP HEADER! Not a fan of Burnham at the moment especially after the V-8 Fiasco. I believed in Burnham so much I installed them in my home for myself and our tenants…… We now have 3 Weil Mclains… This is clean and beautiful work. I applaud this work… it’s art in my eyes.
I thank you for your kind words!
I may mention in the video that
Burnham sells a piping kit to allow a drop header, to which we modify to suit the individual job conditions.
Yes, Burnham has had quite a few issues with some of their various boiler lines.
The V-7 was notorious.
I wasn't aware of the V-8 issues.
Sorry to hear about your issues.
The high Independence failure rate was, to my knowledge, not publicly acknowledged, but they came out with a new "improved" line, the SteamMax.
Someone else can be the "beta tester" on that one.
The MegaSteam, so far, has lived up to the hype, I'm happy to say.
Wish that they didn't fight the conversion to gas with that boiler.
Thank you for an awesome video! There is no doubt this install was done with future servicing in mind. Would be a pleasure to work on!
Thank you!
Man -beautiful set up!!
Great job on the install I appreciate technicians that know what they are doing.. The only detail that I could pick is the oil supply line isn't jacketed as far as I know the national and international code requires it to be jacketed.
Thank you very much!
You are correct that new installed oil lines should be jacketed. Good eye!
These lines were existing but we advised the customer to have their oil supplier replace the line as well as several other updates.
The customer sold the building.
We've been back only once since then to do a tune-up and a water-side cleaning.
@@gordonschweizer5154 great job the way I like things done, exceed all expectations.
Bravo! Well done sir.
Coming from you, high praise indeed! Thank you!
@@gordonschweizer5154 I just had New England SteamWorks put a Megasteam into my home, and I can see these details in my installation. New England SteamWorks did a great job!
work of art....nice pipe work.
Thanks 👍
awesome vids
Thank you!
A beautiful installation, but I would like to have seen isolation valves on both sides of the feeder.
@@kinokind293 Thank you for praise and kind words!
Your suggestion that valves should be placed on both sides of the feeder are exactly what is called for by Hydrolevel for their VXT in their installation instructions.
Currently, we add just one valve on the inlet of the VXT when we do a steam boiler install.
So far, we find that one 3/8" M x F IP ball valve serves us very well in the rare event when called upon to repair a VXT feeder.
Assuming after the fact that all pipes were insulated, crucial for all steam systems
Insulating 20 feet of pipe while the other 200-600 feet of pipe isn't is crucial?
Have you priced 3" cast fittings these days? Thought I was the only one still using them. Beautiful work.
We just use malleable fittings now.
Cast is not impossible to find, but getting rarer by the day.
Thank you for your kind & encouraging words!
Hi Gordon - Great videos! You said you used either a schedule 80 black or stainless steel nipple for the boiler drain(s). I'd think schedule 80 would be good. Also in the absence of an electrolyte (water) stainless and carbon steel together should be OK. When you introduce water as an "electric bridge" connecting both there would be galvanic corrosion, but at what rate I do not know. My choice would be carbon steel to carbon steel. What are your thoughts on this?
Thank you!
Right now, the results with the stainless/malleable nipple/fitting mix below the waterline have been promising, that is to say, no visible/significant corrosion seen when the joints are taken apart after two years service.
Stainless seems to be a bit cheaper than sch 80 and easier to get.
Sch 80 works in these scenarios by simply offering more mass to corrode before failure.
The stainless offers the possibility of being recoverable and reused at the end of the boiler's life cycle.
The major disadvantage of stainless is the greater likelihood of it galling and having the threads rip out.
I wish I could shake your hand.
I thank you!
Textbook near boiler piping!
I'm curious on the mega-press. You used some for the wet return. I'll first admit that I don't know a lot about steam. I'm just curious if you can use mega-press fittings on the near boiler piping? Do the fittings respond well to expansion and contraction?
Great work on this install!
Thank you!
Ah, mega-press.
It "can" be used for steam lines. Not sure it "should" be used for steam carrying pipe as I question the longevity of the o ring.
We used it here on the water return to get out of a jam.
It works. We'll use it on wet returns for repairs.
It's also pricey and non-reversible.
@@gordonschweizer5154 We use Pro-press on wet returns. Never a problem at all, and we zip through some nasty places with them.
This looks great. I just have a question. If you come straight out of the boiler like that and drop the pipe making the stream have to push down couldn't that make the pipes bang? I've been told the stream naturally only wants to travel upwards and that down causes Resistance.
Thank you for your kind words!
To your question: Steam, as I understand it, does not really "care" which direction it is going (being a gas), but instead is looking for the lowest pressure point.
Up. Down. Sideways. It matters not to the Steam.
As for water, on the other hand, it most certainly *does* matter.
Water, on Earth, wants to go "down".
And the drop header is supposed to wring the steam dry by letting the water to drop down to the bottom of the header, and hence down the equilizer, and back to the boiler, whilst the Steam flows serenely on to the vents (aka, the low pressure points).
Hello. Can anyone tell me, is there such a thing as an electric steam boiler? Thanks
Make sure you run a new sleeved oil line
That is a very good idea. It is up to the customer to accept.
The only flaw I see is the malleable iron fittings. On steam, always use cast or forged steel threaded fittings. Malleable iron is pliable. Over heating and cooling cycles the fittings will stretch out. And produce leaks. The other thing is never use Teflon tape on a steam system. If you have F+T traps with small machines openings in them the Teflon can come loose and clog these ports over time. Other than that it is a superb job.
Thank you for your comments and compliments.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the use of malleable fittings. I see no advantages to using cast iron fittings and have not experienced the leaks you describe, even with import quality fittings.
I will also continue to use PTFE tape on steam systems, as I have not experienced the clogging of ports of traps, etc.
I have no doubt you have, and I have no doubts your admonishments as to its (over)use have validity.
We should always try to skip the first threads with tape to avoid it getting inside pipes.
To your point, I indeed have seen PTFE get inside gas pipe from others' poor use of it and generally eschew its use on gas for that reason (and it is forbidden in our area on fuel gas as well as fuel oil)
Thanks for the reply Gordon! I come from the industrial/commercial side of the industry. Power plants, central distribution systems etc. Our standards are a little over the top sometimes. 2000# superheated steam is a little different than a 3# residential boiler. Again thanks for the reply. Not every day we get to talk to fellow fitters across the country!
Oh heck yeah, in my world of 2 psi dampf ist kinderspiel. No way to compare with what you do!
I once had a talk with a USN Master Chief and mentioned that I heat whole buildings with 1/2 psi steam and he disbelievingly answered "That's not steam. That's a LEAK!"
I answered him, "With respect, Chief, I only have to heat the building, not get it to move at 30 Knots!"
@@gordonschweizer5154 "... not get it to move at 30 knots!". Perfect answer, in addition to being a Scrabble triple word score, sorta. I wish my submarine Captain uncle were still around to hear this comment, I'm sure it'd get a laugh out of him. Btw, sometimes it can be hard to get a laugh out of a sub commander, they're "built" that way ....
A reason to use cast instead of malleable fittings is ease of disassembly. Every try to crack a malleable fitting with a lump hammer? But try pricing those 2 x 3 cast elbows. Ouch!
I did not see a discharge pipe coming off the pressure relief valve.
It's there. 5:21 you can see the 3/4" MIP x. 3/4" compression adaptor connecting the SRV to the 3/4" copper drip.
Nice near boiler piping. How dirty was the boiler at skimming?
Thank you so much. The use of Burnham's "drop header" piping kit saves a lot of time and takes the guesswork out.
As to your question about skimming... one of the disadvantages of putting in a boiler during the warmer months is that it cannot be run for long periods without baking everyone in the building, so we haven't skimmed it, as there is nothing to skim... yet.
I need a new Natural Gas fired Steam Boiler. Can you please recommend someone for the job here in the New York City Metro area? Thanks.
Check out heatinghelpDOTcom's "find a contractor". There should be a few in the NYC area near your zip code.
This looks very nice , I have a question .. I would love to use teflon on steam lines (supply and return ) but the head plumber at company i work for says we should never use teflon on steam lines because it causes more leaks ... i just been in the trade 3 years ... I personally think hes wrong .. any advice ? thanks in advance :)
Thank you for your comments!
We use Teflon AND pipe dope together on steam and water lines. And that works for us.
Generally Teflon in many areas is not allowed by code on gas and fuel oil lines.
It tends to get overused and can allow leaks on fuel oil connections and it can break off in bits inside the pipe and may cause other issues.
Bottom line, if your boss says no Teflon on anything, then that's pretty much between you and him.
I'm just some guy on TH-cam.
Be well, and stay safe.
how do you get that boiler into the house
That is always the challenge.
An experienced crew and a good sturdy cart are usually required.
That boiler is HEAVY.
Is there a king valve to create pressure to blow out the boiler?
Actually, no. We generally don't use king valves, as the pressure blow down is now mainly relegated to the pages of a proud history.
Why weren't steam fittings used on the header and the return lines?
Thank you for your question. Before I reply, just to be sure, what exactly do you mean by "steam fittings" and what advantage would be to the customer in using them?
You didn't use steam fittings. You used fittings that where ment for gas. So if you need to back out a fitting you are never able too. A steam fitting you can break off. Those gas fittings you can not.
I see you are in Baltimore. Do you know if Frank Wilsey is still around? I remember him on The Wall.
Frank Wilsey, AKA "Steamhead," is still on The Wall. He is also my business partner in our company "All Steamed Up, Inc."
I probably met you when you and Frank were looking over or working on the system at Stony Run Friends meeting hall. You were above a ceiling working on some sort of steam emitter. It was a strange setup.
Ah, yes! I do remember.
Do you do work in queens ny ?
Thank you for asking, but sadly, no.
I believe the last time I was in Queens was for the 1964 world's fair when I was but a wee lad.
There should be someone closer (and very likely better) than me in the NYC area as you are at the World Capital Of Steam
Nice video!! Do you offer the customer an alternate to the “psycho guard?” Does it really still interrupt the heating cycle? Does it do it every time?
The issue with changing out the "psycho-guard" to a proper normal low water cut off is one of liability. Change out The major safety control of a new steam boiler to one not approved by the manufacturer and the installing contractor may be on the hook for any warranty. Don't know that for sure, but I don't want to find out the hard way. Boiler manufacturers generally look for any excuse not to pay out a claim.
Does it really interrupt the heating cycle? In a word, yes. Every ten minutes during a run, it will shut down the burner for 90 seconds to make sure there is no foam tricking the senor probe. In theory, a good idea. In practice, absolutely maddening!
@@elgordo271 update: I like my cyclegard now. It’s a 1590 so it’s every 15 minutes. It’s not maddening to me anymore, it’s reassuring. I love a reliable measure of the water on my LWCO because as we know, the Hartford loop is just theater
@@pb7379-j2k I, too, am starting to appreciate the psycho-gard's virtue of shutting down and testing the true water line.
Wow, where are you located? I would use you.
Baltimore, Md
I just saw 2 videos in a row on a TH-cam auto feed and after watching 100 of your videos I’m seeing what my inexperienced eyes I see as ‘flaws.’ (And they might not be) Sometimes the risers are not very high (or what looks like not high enough) off the boiler because the existing header is not very high. It seems if they came up past the header and essentially “came back at it” via a drop header type arrangement, they’d have the best of both worlds; they’d have adequate rise off the boiler and the benefits of a drop header, dryer steam. Is not having high enough risers off the boiler a common problem? I’ve now seen several videos of people who are obviously not as experienced as you are and many times the risers are quite short.
It never ceases to amaze me how off-spec steam piping can be and sorta kinda work. What's a little water hammer?
What really destroys good steam trying to emerge from the boiler is dirty contaminated water.
I've seen dirty water in new boilers just laugh at my "perfect" piping, drop header and all, and just geyser up into the mains.
@@gordonschweizer5154 I guess I shouldn't be surprised myself. I can semi wrap my mind behind the Google Armchair Genius. I'm a 30 year warm air furnace/ AC guy and im gobsmacked at things I see HVAC guys do. I hold them in near contempt. :)
Not all, but some; the Craigslist Cowboy