Focal Dystonia is an awful thing, definitely it has been the greatest challenge that I have had to deal with so far. There is a psychological context around this issue. Changing my psychological approach helped me a ton in overcoming this symptom. Joaquin Fabra was the one who helped me, I definitely recommend him as an alternative for treatment. He has a TH-cam channel check it out! There are some frightening videos about musicians going through this, good news are at the end of those videos Fabra shows how the affected musican recovered... Is great! And if there is somebody suffering from this condition I have a couple of advice: Be Brave; seek support and reach out to other musicians; be patience and please don't be hard on yourself!!'
Thank you Matthew so much,I pretty much 100% believe this is what I have,I've had an intuitive feeling all along that exactly what you stated as far as hopes of conquering this problem,is exactly what I've felt is the only way to possibly overcome this,Thank you for the conformation my friend.
Excellent video with a very good explanation of what brings on the condition and how to work your way out of it. For pianists, like myself, it is a matter of going extremely slowly, creating patterns on the keyboard that direct attention to the dystonic finger(s), and lifting the previous finger with complete focus when the next finger depresses the key. Stay well below the contraction threshold or trigger point, pausing, if necessary, and taking the weight of the hand and arm with the finger. Avoid the use of (constrain) any compensating fingers (fingers that stick up if and when the dystonic finger contracts). Also, the extremely slow, basic patterns can be heard as very beautiful, and it is a good idea to always hear each component of the "exercise" as a beautiful musical phrase. There is more, but that is a big part of it
I have been having this for 30 years and the last 5 last years I have found the patient and pleasure to separate the exercices I need to practice every day with my desire to play my repertoire ever again
hank you sincerely for this info! I played banjo 30+ years practicing 12 and even 18 hours every single day when I started noticing practicing was only making me worse! nobody knew what FD was back then. so my banjo laid in the case for another 30 years, I was diagnosed in 2012 both hands! long story short, someone suggested I try playing using gloves with the fingertips cut out, I didn't try until almost 2 years ago, needless to say I had to work hard to be able to play again, I guess my point is I can now do again one of the things I love best! thank you again for posting this info! I only wish I could found it 30 years ago! :)
I am a rock guitarist , not classical. After 30 years of playing, I suddenly started noticing a problem playing my favorite licks, scale runs and phrases I had used as warm ups or played on autopilot for years. What I used to play clean and easy at 120 bpm for warmup suddenly became difficult to finger even as 95-100 bpm. I thought at first maybe I had some kind of mini stroke -or - maybe it was the first sign of getting older and losing reflex speed and coordination (I am age 57, not TOO old yet). Instead of quick, clean articulation of the fretting hand when playing fast stuff like Paul Gilbert of Yngwie Malmsteen licks, it seemed the fingers wanted to move together or just freeze in mid-motion. It is weird, suddenly the fingers dont want to do what your minds tells them to do, But is does not happen with any ordinary daily activities .... if I did not play fast guitar stuff, I would not know I had a problem Some well known guitarists I spoke with said it sounded like a classic text book example of Focal Dystonia .... even down to the problem being worse with the 1-3-4 finger combinations. (ring and pinky now want to move together as one instead of independent). So I found this video doing research online because now I want to know if I can recover and regain my old ability ...... or ...... I will be forced to either change style ... or ....... simply stop playing altogether.
I'm recovering from focal dystonia, through Institutart in Terrassa, Spain. They have a very thorough program and they help many people. If you think you suffer, or suffer from fd I recommend checking them out.
A book that you may want to consider is : Playing With Ease by David Leisner. He cured himself of this. I had a lesson with David and it was basically about this.
Never learned what it's called, but 20 years ago I lost use of my pinky and next finger to it of my left hand from playing piano every day as a student. It got progressively worse until they lost sensation and could no longer play. I investigated and found that Cayenne Pepper powder and organic Castor Oil together as a not quite runny mix covering those two fingers every night at bed time and covering with a plastic wrap, started to bring back feeling with excruciating pain, but I knew it was good pain. I did this every night and it improved daily until within only a couple months I was like new again. Here I am now learning guitar and now my left hand middle finger locks into position and causes pain but if I merely press the guitar neck with that finger and surrounding fingers without moving for about ten minutes, varying pressure all around the finger, I can gradually bend enough to play. I used the Cayenne and Castor Oil for a while and it worked but did not have the patience to do it every day, but will again do the nightly wrap to improve faster. Wondering if Cayenne and Castor Oil wrap may help guitarists with dystonia. I just now read the comments below, and need to add a story that may help: About 45 years ago I took up Flute and became pretty good, but then developed a locking left hand Index finger. It would lock and swell and there wasn't much I could do with it, and being young didn't think to help myself but left it to doctors to decide; so, actually got an operation. They cut into the palm of the hand directly below the finger and after a few months it was all good (more like a year to perfect). Doctor expected a five minute operation that took two hours, said he had never seen such a build up of cartillige at the base of a finger in all his life. I attributed this Flute finger problem, Piano finger problem and Guitar finger problem to my childhood years of playing baseball, hardball throwing repeatedly without a well-padded glove. Friends would not want to borrow my glove as it did not have the padding some others did, and yes it hurt catching fast balls, but I didn't flinch. So, back to cayenne and castor oil, which increases and promotes circulation immediately. If it does not feel warm then the cayenne is old. I believe this poultice can help. ciao.
Spot on Allen! I was stricken with fd in 1981 and had no idea what it was. What was simple became impossible and no matter how hard I studied, the dilemma became worse until I just said to hell with it. I had a wife and children and had to sustain them which I did. In that span I would always pick up the instrument with the illusion of being able to play freely and express the music, but never to any avail. In the spring of 2011 I was researching trigger finger on the net and came across fd, and since, I have been absorbed with resolving the curse using slow down movements and deliberate motion for each finger of the right hand, reprogramming the Braine and always visualizing the process. It is coming back and there is hope! I am learning so much in the process and it is a brutal process, but the will to express is far to great to crushed forever. I am using your fingers to the Palm method with a relaxed hand and im alternation as you demonstrated. Thank you for your sincere approach and knowledge. God bless you in 2015
Wow, now I know why my fingers will sometimes just lock up like a computer. I do reboot by getting up and walking around, rub my finger muscles. and then I slowly exaggerate the shapes and patterns slowly for a few minutes, and then I'm good again. I didn't play for a while and I just wrote it off to being old. This is a good thing to know. I can see it in other aspects of my life as well. THANKYOU!
I used to play Flamenco but couldn't advance on certain techniques, even simple ones. It appeared some of the tendons of my fingers were interconnected. I went to a specialist (dr. Leijnse at the University Hospital of Rotterdam) who showed me this with exercises and echo images. Both my hands showed the same "anatomical constraints" of the tendons (all the way up in my arms) Surgery was possible but with a high risk of complications and results were uncertain. I thought it over and decided to choose another instrument. One of the causes of FD is muscle force that is used to overcome such "anatomical limitations". After a while you build up tension in muscles that become stronger than the tension in antagonistic muscles which causes "cramp" or uncontrolled movements of fingers.
Since I didn't enjoy my job very much, 4 years ago I decided that I will focus more on my guitar playing than my career. I gave practice my all over the last 4 years, now my left hand is barely useful. And still stuck in a crappy job :)
It is very important to know the work of David Leisner, about focal dystonia. He is very encouraging about the probability of recover the movements. According to him, as according to Apostolos Paraskevas , this is a muscular problems. Not neurological neither psycological. And is very possible to cure that, with the correct exercicies and monitoring sensations. Be optimists, it is not the end of the world!
I was officially diagnosed in 2015 after years of symptoms. I decided not to get the botox injections recommended by my neurologist. Instead, I saw a hand therapist who helped me recover from the tendonitis I had developed. I don't know if the tendonitis led to the focal dystonia or vice versa. In the early stages of my condition, I had trouble performing arpeggios, which led to more practicing, which led to more symptoms. Even after I stopped playing, symptoms progressed. I couldn't play piano or type with my right hand or even tie my shoes easily. If you think you might be developing focal dystonia, stop playing, get evaluated, see a hand therapist or physical therapist. Get any physiological issues resolved before playing again, even slow exercises. Relieving the tendonitis helped me. I went back to playing in 2016. First with a pick, then with my thumb and index finger. I still have trouble with my a and m fingers, but by playing what I can every day without forcing it, I feel my condition improves little by little. Every once in a while, I find that I can do something I haven't been able to do in years. It gives me some hope that I might fully recover someday. For now, I feel it's important to focus on what I can do instead of what I can't. I know this is the last thing you want to hear if you've been diagnosed, but this where I'm at now. I'd also like to add that focal dystonia is more of a neurological malady than a physical one.
I am 14 years old and have acute musician's focal dystonia and know it is a very complicated thing but from a logical, scientific, and objective perspective, since musician's focal dystonia, as a condition truly is not actually damage to the brain but a maladaptive rewiring of the brain and given the fact that the brain can always adapt and rewire itself through time as long as the brain has not suffered any type of damage cellularly or structurally, it seems that through consistent and deliberate retraining that shows progress in the recovery journey, the brain's neuroplasticity can eventually rewire the brain back to normal and overcome deeply ingrained changes/neuroplastic limits as dystonia does not actually cause any structural or cellular damage to the brain that prevents neuroplasticity from overcoming these challenges and given the fact that the brain is always technically able to continue rewiring itself. It can be extremely challenging and take a very long time to achieve a full 100% recovery with no dystonic symptoms and sensations from effective retraining but from an objective and scientific perspective, it seems certainly possible. What seems variable for each individual is the rate of recovery and the time it takes rather than the actual possibility of a full 100% recovery, which logically seems to be guaranteed with effective retraining and time considering neuroplasticity's amazing abilities to overcome deeply ingrained and even hard to reverse corrupted neural pathways and the fact that dystonia does not actually cause damage to the brain that prevents neuroplasticity from overcoming these challenges like a stroke or Alzheimer's would. So in conclusion, it seems that as long the retraining results in progress in the recovery process and the retraining is consistent, then disregarding the rate of recovery and time it takes, eventually, the brain will rewire back to normal. What differs for each individual for this challenging and often unpredictable journey is the rate and time it takes to achieve the full 100% recovery. Sidenote: I used a method of piano technique called the Taubman approach and have seen truly significant and noticeable improvement. I started retraining a week ago and progress felt almost instantaneously!
Do you think that learning another instrument might help? I have decided to learn saxophone and it seems to help with the guitar, to the actual effect that my brain hears the pattern from the sax and my fingers want to play that pattern on the guitar. On the saxophone, I have to go back to square one with the speed.
I too was given the bad news 10yrs ago. I knew something was wrong and it took me 2 specialists to tell me. First one didnt have a clue, second one was a renowned musicians' hand specialist called Ian Winspur. He told me. This FD issue is not a pretty one at all. It devastated me and I was totally depressed for ages. Id worked so hard on guitar and even if I say so myself,I wad a fantastic and versatile player. Classical,rock...everything. But you mustn't despair. I saw an interview once with Dominic Miller ( Sting's long time guitarist) where he was asked if he had his hands insured and what would he do if he lost the use of both his hands. His reply said it all to me...."I'd still be a musician". And I immediately thought "Yes, so am I". I've come on leaps and bounds with mine and I have a quick video on here under the title of "Get on your Feet"...the Gloria Estefan tune where I play the intro. (I was always massively influenced by Miami Sound Machine guitarist John DeFaria) In fairness I dont know how badly I was afflicted to start with. Possibly mildly.My Mum used to listen to me play after my diagnosis and say "You dont sound any different to me". Im happy to help anyone and share some of my ideas and techniques both mentally and practically. Im also hoping to post some videos on here in the near future. Remember....you're still a musician. There are plenty of ways in life to work round problems and get the desired result. Guitars (and other instruments) are no different.
This seriously breaks my heart to know about. Please, you have to protect yourself. Please remember someone loves you and wants you to be happy. Don't keep going if it hurts or isn't working. Take a break and do something else. ComeBack to it slowly. Follow these kind of deliberate, slow, movements. Change your string fudge or instrument for practice. And if it is not repairable- Please- have compassion on your own soul and do something else. I know it is hard to do that but count your blessings otherwise. I am a retired athlete who didn't want to quit but the body gets older- and as a person who has had two death experiences- I can tell you there is a heaven and there is much like here. From my experiences you work and do what you love but without the body restrictions- you still have and use a body but it doesn't have the kind of rules we have in this world like cellular, aging, etc. it is a more subtle body. Just my experience but if you can keep that in mind and recognize its not forever to endure this condition and do something else for this life rather than injure yourself or make yourself depressed trying to keep up as a professional, please do something else--- even just for a few months and then come back to it when your brain is relaxed. I would think Tibetan Buddhism could address this. I would think altering breathing could help. But take a full on break and then come back slow. Don't keep pushing to make others happy or pay your bills. Another way will reveal. Take care of yourselves.
I got essential tremors of my left hand due to upper-body arthritis and pinched nerves. I get very little feeling in my fingers which forced me to stop playing the guitar. Almost 5 years of classical guitar study and playing ended abruptly. In about 8 months, I've lost everything I've learned. Now, it saddens me to even touch the guitar.
It is so frustrating! I play the flamenco guitar and I am struggling with this issue since 12 years! I went few weeks ago to a nerves specialist and now it is getting better and better.
@@hamad1979 There is a really good bassist I subscribed to who has it and he wears a special glove that enables him to play bass,his name is Scott Devine.
@@hamad1979 I seen a video of the bassist Victor Wooten.He has Focal Dystonia and he is getting treated by a specialist.He said he doesn't feel it too much any more.
I had it in my left hand for 4 years and was able to reverse it by playing on a guitar with thread instead of strings. It's from playing with too much tension.
Good point of view, especially your last minute or so. I contracted FD 15 years ago, from trying to play Paco de Lucia's picado. For 10 years, no progress, only frustration, then I saw Jerald Harscher's website The Poised Guitarist, and started working with him. I have very recently become almost 100% dystonia-free, and am successfully regaining my technique through slow, controlled, mindful practice. The slow part is essential, because one does not want to practice bad moves, but only the "perfect" moves, many, many times, since the brain remembers what you feed it. So, feed it good stuff. We make mistakes in performance when we practice mistakes in our studio. I am well on my way back to virtuoso level, slow practicing actually creates great speed.
+Ron Murray Thanks Ron, Absolutely right: intentional (mindful) slow practice is essential to great speed. Congrats on getting your hands back! Cheers, Allen
I think i got FD! i`m not sure yet but the symptoms might say i got FD!!! Is excessive tension on using a finger or a combination of specific fingerings a show off? Its on my Left hand, specially using 124 fingering i feel the 3rd finger tensing and causing innacuracy on the pinky
mass627 Hey there, I can't say (I am not an expert in this), but it couldn't help to slow down and revisit some fundamentals. I have heard repeatedly to avoid any actions that create the "feeling" that may be FD. Good luck! Allen
It's actually considered genetic. I'm learning about this in Physical Therapy class, just wanted visuals to see how it affects hand movements. Glad there are some helpful videos like this for those who have it!! Thanks for sharing.
i have focal dystonia on the picking right hand.... very difficult for me picking scales fastly... and on the fifth finger on the left hand..... hammer on and pull of on 1 4 and 4 1 fingers combinations is a problem...
Hi Zak here. A good place to start is by reading this classicalguitarmagazine.com/david-leisner-a-rare-victory-over-focal-dystonia-injuries-recovery-guitar/
I had had this issue in the outer part until an orthopedist became my guitar studend. He showed me an excercise with that I never got this issue again. Since then, many guitarists took advantage of this simple exercise I had shown them. Generally, you can use any streching excercise being used for problems in the forearm from playing tennis. Impoertant is that you do it very slowly and do not overstretch! For the inner forearm try this (right forearm being stretched), it helped many guitarists, too: 1) Make a 90 ° angle between fore- and upper arm, while the elbow is placed a little bit near to the belly front. 2) Your is looking at your face. 3) Cross the right hand fingers in 90 ° over the left hand fingers. Left root knuckle of the left index finger is placed above the right pinky. 4) Place the left thump on the right back hand. 5) While the right hand fingers are totally passive, and stretch your arm slowly. 6) While stretching the arm, you increase the angle ONLY by pulling it with LEFT hand to the max (right hand ist totally passive). Be aware not overtretch. If you already feel the "pain" of the streched muscle, then can stay in this position for 5 to 7 seconds. 7) Now get back very slowly to the starting position while decreasing the angle and wait 7 seconds. 8) Repeat this process in the beginning 3 times plus 3 times a day. On the 3rd day you can extend the stretching by pulling the passive right hand fingers with left hand a little bit more backwards. From day 5 on, you can make this excercise in a 5x turn. Good luck!
I don't have focal dystonia, but I've been playing piano for 12years and for some reason, my hand is getting weaker and weaker every day. Now, my skills are not as good as before and it's terrible thinking that you can't be good at it anymore .
People seem to think focal dystonia is caused by practicing too fast or not breaking down fundamental movements; that is false. It is thought people with focal dystonia have a genetic predisposition for developing focal dystonia. Also not everyone can be “cured” with slow broken down practice. This video has a slight implication that it is the musician’s fault that they have focal dystonia because of how they practiced and that they could get rid of their focal dystonia if they practiced differently and more slowly; that is not true. Focal dystonia can also be associated with nerve problems in the optic nerve and over stimulated nervous systems. It is very complicated.
I'm no doctor either, but it seems to me we all have experience with this, when you're learning a new pattern and if you're not paying enough attention you will automatically play a similar pattern you've practiced most not the new one you want. I bet this condition comes from doing exercises over and over mindlessly. This is the same issue apes have, they don't think about how they are moving their hand, they just do it, and apparently that's where their strength comes from, no fine motor control, it just all fires at once unconsciously.
Personally I have found my so called dystonia to be nothing except a result of running before I could walk, physically and neurogically. I'd imagine that when it has happened to guitarists who patiently developed a good technique (unlike me) that they then continued running but without ever going back to walking, which is kinda what is said here in different words. My full time busking career as a travelling 'classical' guitarist became very difficult as I had to continue running, in order to keep earning good money and living the troubadour dream.. I ended up learning a very clunky way of playing just using thumb and index which eventually caused carpal tunnel. However, fortunately I then found a very controversial treatment known as distilled fluids therapy, which kept the pain at bay from being so tense playing this way. I am only just now, thanks to this awful lockdown, starting to go back to mindful playing, as it is the only way to go with this, and starting from scratch. Busking inhibited me doing this. Thanks for a great video and being so compassionate for a potentially tragic outcome for any guitarist. Good luck to you all.
@@godliefrafael it works yes, but you must guzzle a good 4 litres a day in my experience. I am dependent on it. Also essential oils and physiotherapy to help the arms as they tend to be more tense playing this way as they kinda have to overcompensate for what the fingers can no longer do. Eventually the unused fingers learn to come out from the palm, where you may find they will plant themselves tightly. They are looser now and I flail them every now and then and bite my tongue as to what the interesting sounds they might make from the strings. I can still play 3 hours a busk and I'm always fine these days. Are you using just thumb and index now too? It gives me a quirky edge as I have to find more finger 'strummy'ways of creating flourishes and quick note successions. I see it as being a bit like django rheinhart except the other hand. I actually quite like the strange way I play now. It is limiting but in a way has reigned me in to not run before walking. I wouldn't wish it on anyone though... study classical posture and take it easy everyone.
Are guitarists more exposed to this condition than other musicians? Guitar is a very hard and awkward instrument to master. Everything is hard, scale patterns, multiple ways to play the same melody/chord. Same notes in many places, many strings, asymmetric tuning.
Scott Devine is a world class bassist and educator in the UK who also has FD and is able to play again thanks to the glove! Please see scottsbasslessons.com! Hope it can help you play to your potential! Please see the Musician’s Practice Glove at musicianslive. org - (we know it can be a bit controversial, but please hear us out)
I wear a glove now after watching Scotts video , It has helped greatly in my bass playing . Before learning of the glove I spent years on end searching in frustration for a diagnosis and treatment to no avail . I still can spasm at times with the glove on but it has been reduced by 90%.
Yeah, everyone says that shit about 'slow repetitive motions.' Joaquin Farias teaches that bollocks, too. I went to see him in Toronto. He's the world's greatest talker, but he does almost zero hands-on work. I followed his advice for a full year, conscientiously every fucking day. I gave it up. I saw, after one year of the most diligent practice (far more dedicated and fucking 'mindful' than I ever was practising the guitar), no improvement at all. Not one tiny thing. Nothing. I have a very dim view of Farias. 3 days listening to him talk on and on and on at a fairly high cost. He's super knowledge, obviously. But he does fuck all with it. Now, he has some sort of platform to let you do 'whatever works.' Taichi networking? Let's do line dancing! White water rafting not doing it for you? Then you need to try your hand at miedevalomg distance bakery,,,!
this interesting approach isn't a way to recover from fd but a way to play music with fd... to cope with....ultimately you still remain invalid...let's hope future will provide better...
Tell me about it.. It ruins you. Handicapped Totally. No Dexterity once so ever. Left hand- Ring and Pinky. I don't even want to say any more then that.
In the Philippines, we call that *"PASMA"* when your hands, feet, eyes, or any body parts that are tired were soaked or wet with water. We rest for a while like 20-30 mins before we take a bath or washing hands. They say that's a superstition but it seems true.
I'm just going to say it. You're wrong. Concentrating on small things is what caused it. Letting the dystonia do it's thing, letting go is the key. You've never suffered. Please take this down. You're actually communicating the cause.
This video needs to be taken down by the poster. He implies when he says “beware” that musicians get dystonia from how they practiced-it is a neurological disorder and something goes wrong in the nervous system. What he is saying creates a lot of judgment and shame around focal dystonia. He seems to think that just because he practices so carefully and slowly and breaks down movements that he won’t get focal dystonia. He doesn’t have focal dystonia because currently, he has nothing wrong with his nervous system. There are genetic factors. It is complicated. I won’t be told that some of the greatest musicians and even music teachers in the world didn’t understand the basic components of their technique. He doesn’t understand.
For more information about Focal Dystonia, please click the link below:
www.classicalguitarshed.com/Focal-dystonia-guitar/
Great video! I just interviewed a FD recoveree on my channel. Thanks for your presentation here!
This is excellent. I had not hear of focal dystonia.
Took me 6 years to recover.
There is no magic trick. In the end it’s all about relaxation, that’s what I think.
May I ask what fingers were affected, and was it your fret hand?
Focal Dystonia is an awful thing, definitely it has been the greatest challenge that I have had to deal with so far. There is a psychological context around this issue. Changing my psychological approach helped me a ton in overcoming this symptom. Joaquin Fabra was the one who helped me, I definitely recommend him as an alternative for treatment. He has a TH-cam channel check it out! There are some frightening videos about musicians going through this, good news are at the end of those videos Fabra shows how the affected musican recovered... Is great! And if there is somebody suffering from this condition I have a couple of advice: Be Brave; seek support and reach out to other musicians; be patience and please don't be hard on yourself!!'
+Daniel Felipe Gaviria Arcila Thanks Daniel, I will certainly check him out. Thanks for the resource!
Best, Allen
Thank you Matthew so much,I pretty much 100% believe this is what I have,I've had an intuitive feeling all along that exactly what you stated as far as hopes of conquering this problem,is exactly what I've felt is the only way to possibly overcome this,Thank you for the conformation my friend.
Excellent video with a very good explanation of what brings on the condition and how to work your way out of it. For pianists, like myself, it is a matter of going extremely slowly, creating patterns on the keyboard that direct attention to the dystonic finger(s), and lifting the previous finger with complete focus when the next finger depresses the key. Stay well below the contraction threshold or trigger point, pausing, if necessary, and taking the weight of the hand and arm with the finger. Avoid the use of (constrain) any compensating fingers (fingers that stick up if and when the dystonic finger contracts). Also, the extremely slow, basic patterns can be heard as very beautiful, and it is a good idea to always hear each component of the "exercise" as a beautiful musical phrase. There is more, but that is a big part of it
I have been having this for 30 years and the last 5 last years I have found the patient and pleasure to separate the exercices I need to practice every day with my desire to play my repertoire ever again
hank you sincerely for this info! I played banjo 30+ years practicing 12 and even 18 hours every single day when I started noticing practicing was only making me worse! nobody knew what FD was back then. so my banjo laid in the case for another 30 years, I was diagnosed in 2012 both hands! long story short, someone suggested I try playing using gloves with the fingertips cut out, I didn't try until almost 2 years ago, needless to say I had to work hard to be able to play again, I guess my point is I can now do again one of the things I love best! thank you again for posting this info! I only wish I could found it 30 years ago! :)
I am a rock guitarist , not classical. After 30 years of playing, I suddenly started noticing a problem playing my favorite licks, scale runs and phrases I had used as warm ups or played on autopilot for years. What I used to play clean and easy at 120 bpm for warmup suddenly became difficult to finger even as 95-100 bpm.
I thought at first maybe I had some kind of mini stroke -or - maybe it was the first sign of getting older and losing reflex speed and coordination (I am age 57, not TOO old yet).
Instead of quick, clean articulation of the fretting hand when playing fast stuff like Paul Gilbert of Yngwie Malmsteen licks, it seemed the fingers wanted to move together or just freeze in mid-motion.
It is weird, suddenly the fingers dont want to do what your minds tells them to do,
But is does not happen with any ordinary daily activities .... if I did not play fast guitar stuff, I would not know I had a problem
Some well known guitarists I spoke with said it sounded like a classic text book example of Focal Dystonia .... even down to the problem being worse with the 1-3-4 finger combinations. (ring and pinky now want to move together as one instead of independent).
So I found this video doing research online because now I want to know if I can recover and regain my old ability ...... or ...... I will be forced to either change style ... or ....... simply stop playing altogether.
I'm recovering from focal dystonia, through Institutart in Terrassa, Spain. They have a very thorough program and they help many people. If you think you suffer, or suffer from fd I recommend checking them out.
A book that you may want to consider is : Playing With Ease by David Leisner. He cured himself of this. I had a lesson with David and it was basically about this.
Never learned what it's called, but 20 years ago I lost use of my pinky and next finger to it of my left hand from playing piano every day as a student. It got progressively worse until they lost sensation and could no longer play. I investigated and found that Cayenne Pepper powder and organic Castor Oil together as a not quite runny mix covering those two fingers every night at bed time and covering with a plastic wrap, started to bring back feeling with excruciating pain, but I knew it was good pain. I did this every night and it improved daily until within only a couple months I was like new again.
Here I am now learning guitar and now my left hand middle finger locks into position and causes pain but if I merely press the guitar neck with that finger and surrounding fingers without moving for about ten minutes, varying pressure all around the finger, I can gradually bend enough to play. I used the Cayenne and Castor Oil for a while and it worked but did not have the patience to do it every day, but will again do the nightly wrap to improve faster.
Wondering if Cayenne and Castor Oil wrap may help guitarists with dystonia.
I just now read the comments below, and need to add a story that may help: About 45 years ago I took up Flute and became pretty good, but then developed a locking left hand Index finger. It would lock and swell and there wasn't much I could do with it, and being young didn't think to help myself but left it to doctors to decide; so, actually got an operation. They cut into the palm of the hand directly below the finger and after a few months it was all good (more like a year to perfect). Doctor expected a five minute operation that took two hours, said he had never seen such a build up of cartillige at the base of a finger in all his life. I attributed this Flute finger problem, Piano finger problem and Guitar finger problem to my childhood years of playing baseball, hardball throwing repeatedly without a well-padded glove. Friends would not want to borrow my glove as it did not have the padding some others did, and yes it hurt catching fast balls, but I didn't flinch.
So, back to cayenne and castor oil, which increases and promotes circulation immediately. If it does not feel warm then the cayenne is old. I believe this poultice can help. ciao.
Spot on Allen! I was stricken with fd in 1981 and had no idea what it was. What was simple became impossible and no matter how hard I studied, the dilemma became worse until I just said to hell with it. I had a wife and children and had to sustain them which I did. In that span I would always pick up the instrument with the illusion of being able to play freely and express the music, but never to any avail. In the spring of 2011 I was researching trigger finger on the net and came across fd, and since, I have been absorbed with resolving the curse using slow down movements and deliberate motion for each finger of the right hand, reprogramming the Braine and always visualizing the process. It is coming back and there is hope! I am learning so much in the process and it is a brutal process, but the will to express is far to great to crushed forever. I am using your fingers to the Palm method with a relaxed hand and im alternation as you demonstrated. Thank you for your sincere approach and knowledge. God bless you in 2015
Thanks for the comment, Joe. I hope it works out!
Cheers,
Allen
Alexander Technique is wonderful for this.
Wow, now I know why my fingers will sometimes just lock up like a computer. I do reboot by getting up and walking around, rub my finger muscles. and then I slowly exaggerate the shapes and patterns slowly for a few minutes, and then I'm good again.
I didn't play for a while and I just wrote it off to being old.
This is a good thing to know. I can see it in other aspects of my life as well. THANKYOU!
I used to play Flamenco but couldn't advance on certain techniques, even simple ones. It appeared some of the tendons of my fingers were interconnected. I went to a specialist (dr. Leijnse at the University Hospital of Rotterdam) who showed me this with exercises and echo images.
Both my hands showed the same "anatomical constraints" of the tendons (all the way up in my arms) Surgery was possible but with a high risk of complications and results were uncertain. I thought it over and decided to choose another instrument.
One of the causes of FD is muscle force that is used to overcome such "anatomical limitations". After a while you build up tension in muscles that become stronger than the tension in antagonistic muscles which causes "cramp" or uncontrolled movements of fingers.
Since I didn't enjoy my job very much, 4 years ago I decided that I will focus more on my guitar playing than my career. I gave practice my all over the last 4 years, now my left hand is barely useful. And still stuck in a crappy job :)
It is very important to know the work of David Leisner, about focal dystonia. He is very encouraging about the probability of recover the movements. According to him, as according to Apostolos Paraskevas , this is a muscular problems. Not neurological neither psycological. And is very possible to cure that, with the correct exercicies and monitoring sensations. Be optimists, it is not the end of the world!
Takes a long time to recover. There are several solutions. Leisners approach did not work for me (large muscle) but his book certainly did.
David Leisner is not a doctor.
I was officially diagnosed in 2015 after years of symptoms. I decided not to get the botox injections recommended by my neurologist. Instead, I saw a hand therapist who helped me recover from the tendonitis I had developed. I don't know if the tendonitis led to the focal dystonia or vice versa. In the early stages of my condition, I had trouble performing arpeggios, which led to more practicing, which led to more symptoms. Even after I stopped playing, symptoms progressed. I couldn't play piano or type with my right hand or even tie my shoes easily. If you think you might be developing focal dystonia, stop playing, get evaluated, see a hand therapist or physical therapist. Get any physiological issues resolved before playing again, even slow exercises. Relieving the tendonitis helped me. I went back to playing in 2016. First with a pick, then with my thumb and index finger. I still have trouble with my a and m fingers, but by playing what I can every day without forcing it, I feel my condition improves little by little. Every once in a while, I find that I can do something I haven't been able to do in years. It gives me some hope that I might fully recover someday. For now, I feel it's important to focus on what I can do instead of what I can't. I know this is the last thing you want to hear if you've been diagnosed, but this where I'm at now. I'd also like to add that focal dystonia is more of a neurological malady than a physical one.
I am 14 years old and have acute musician's focal dystonia and know it is a very complicated thing but from a logical, scientific, and objective perspective, since musician's focal dystonia, as a condition truly is not actually damage to the brain but a maladaptive rewiring of the brain and given the fact that the brain can always adapt and rewire itself through time as long as the brain has not suffered any type of damage cellularly or structurally, it seems that through consistent and deliberate retraining that shows progress in the recovery journey, the brain's neuroplasticity can eventually rewire the brain back to normal and overcome deeply ingrained changes/neuroplastic limits as dystonia does not actually cause any structural or cellular damage to the brain that prevents neuroplasticity from overcoming these challenges and given the fact that the brain is always technically able to continue rewiring itself. It can be extremely challenging and take a very long time to achieve a full 100% recovery with no dystonic symptoms and sensations from effective retraining but from an objective and scientific perspective, it seems certainly possible. What seems variable for each individual is the rate of recovery and the time it takes rather than the actual possibility of a full 100% recovery, which logically seems to be guaranteed with effective retraining and time considering neuroplasticity's amazing abilities to overcome deeply ingrained and even hard to reverse corrupted neural pathways and the fact that dystonia does not actually cause damage to the brain that prevents neuroplasticity from overcoming these challenges like a stroke or Alzheimer's would. So in conclusion, it seems that as long the retraining results in progress in the recovery process and the retraining is consistent, then disregarding the rate of recovery and time it takes, eventually, the brain will rewire back to normal. What differs for each individual for this challenging and often unpredictable journey is the rate and time it takes to achieve the full 100% recovery.
Sidenote: I used a method of piano technique called the Taubman approach and have seen truly significant and noticeable improvement. I started retraining a week ago and progress felt almost instantaneously!
Do you think that learning another instrument might help? I have decided to learn saxophone and it seems to help with the guitar, to the actual effect that my brain hears the pattern from the sax and my fingers want to play that pattern on the guitar. On the saxophone, I have to go back to square one with the speed.
I too was given the bad news 10yrs ago. I knew something was wrong and it took me 2 specialists to tell me. First one didnt have a clue, second one was a renowned musicians' hand specialist called Ian Winspur. He told me.
This FD issue is not a pretty one at all. It devastated me and I was totally depressed for ages. Id worked so hard on guitar and even if I say so myself,I wad a fantastic and versatile player. Classical,rock...everything.
But you mustn't despair. I saw an interview once with Dominic Miller ( Sting's long time guitarist) where he was asked if he had his hands insured and what would he do if he lost the use of both his hands. His reply said it all to me...."I'd still be a musician". And I immediately thought "Yes, so am I".
I've come on leaps and bounds with mine and I have a quick video on here under the title of "Get on your Feet"...the Gloria Estefan tune where I play the intro.
(I was always massively influenced by Miami Sound Machine guitarist John DeFaria)
In fairness I dont know how badly I was afflicted to start with. Possibly mildly.My Mum used to listen to me play after my diagnosis and say "You dont sound any different to me".
Im happy to help anyone and share some of my ideas and techniques both mentally and practically. Im also hoping to post some videos on here in the near future.
Remember....you're still a musician. There are plenty of ways in life to work round problems and get the desired result. Guitars (and other instruments) are no different.
th-cam.com/video/6R8ECRGS8u8/w-d-xo.html
This seriously breaks my heart to know about. Please, you have to protect yourself. Please remember someone loves you and wants you to be happy. Don't keep going if it hurts or isn't working. Take a break and do something else. ComeBack to it slowly. Follow these kind of deliberate, slow, movements. Change your string fudge or instrument for practice. And if it is not repairable- Please- have compassion on your own soul and do something else. I know it is hard to do that but count your blessings otherwise. I am a retired athlete who didn't want to quit but the body gets older- and as a person who has had two death experiences- I can tell you there is a heaven and there is much like here. From my experiences you work and do what you love but without the body restrictions- you still have and use a body but it doesn't have the kind of rules we have in this world like cellular, aging, etc. it is a more subtle body. Just my experience but if you can keep that in mind and recognize its not forever to endure this condition and do something else for this life rather than injure yourself or make yourself depressed trying to keep up as a professional, please do something else--- even just for a few months and then come back to it when your brain is relaxed. I would think Tibetan Buddhism could address this. I would think altering breathing could help. But take a full on break and then come back slow. Don't keep pushing to make others happy or pay your bills. Another way will reveal. Take care of yourselves.
String gauge or type. Like steel to nylon or something. I don't play guitar so so don't know about those things. Thanks for taking care of yourself.
I got essential tremors of my left hand due to upper-body arthritis and pinched nerves. I get very little feeling in my fingers which forced me to stop playing the guitar. Almost 5 years of classical guitar study and playing ended abruptly. In about 8 months, I've lost everything I've learned. Now, it saddens me to even touch the guitar.
It is so frustrating! I play the flamenco guitar and I am struggling with this issue since 12 years!
I went few weeks ago to a nerves specialist and now it is getting better and better.
I've been playing guitar for several years, I hope I never get this disorder. Very scary.
Alex Padilla Amen to that!
i have it unfortunately in my fretting hand recently after 30 years of guitar playing without any problems. it’s depressing!
@@vanguard4065 I got it a year ago .. so depressing ...
@@hamad1979 There is a really good bassist I subscribed to who has it and he wears a special glove that enables him to play bass,his name is Scott Devine.
@@hamad1979 I seen a video of the bassist Victor Wooten.He has Focal Dystonia and he is getting treated by a specialist.He said he doesn't feel it too much any more.
I had it in my left hand for 4 years and was able to reverse it by playing on a guitar with thread instead of strings. It's from playing with too much tension.
sireel Now that is interesting. Thanks for sharing that.
+sireel do you have any details you can share about this?
Good point of view, especially your last minute or so. I contracted FD 15 years ago, from trying to play Paco de Lucia's picado. For 10 years, no progress, only frustration, then I saw Jerald Harscher's website The Poised Guitarist, and started working with him. I have very recently become almost 100% dystonia-free, and am successfully regaining my technique through slow, controlled, mindful practice. The slow part is essential, because one does not want to practice bad moves, but only the "perfect" moves, many, many times, since the brain remembers what you feed it. So, feed it good stuff. We make mistakes in performance when we practice mistakes in our studio. I am well on my way back to virtuoso level, slow practicing actually creates great speed.
+Ron Murray Thanks Ron, Absolutely right: intentional (mindful) slow practice is essential to great speed. Congrats on getting your hands back! Cheers, Allen
Thank you for this, just learned about it last night from another guitarist. This is very helpful.
I think i got FD! i`m not sure yet but the symptoms might say i got FD!!! Is excessive tension on using a finger or a combination of specific fingerings a show off? Its on my Left hand, specially using 124 fingering i feel the 3rd finger tensing and causing innacuracy on the pinky
mass627 Hey there, I can't say (I am not an expert in this), but it couldn't help to slow down and revisit some fundamentals. I have heard repeatedly to avoid any actions that create the "feeling" that may be FD. Good luck! Allen
@@ClassicalGuitarShed you better drop the instrument now relax your fingers forget about the feelings and name fd and fear
It's actually considered genetic. I'm learning about this in Physical Therapy class, just wanted visuals to see how it affects hand movements. Glad there are some helpful videos like this for those who have it!! Thanks for sharing.
I had hoped that this video would give me some true insight and aid....however, I learned nothing more than I had previously known
i have focal dystonia on the picking right hand.... very difficult for me picking scales fastly... and on the fifth finger on the left hand..... hammer on and pull of on 1 4 and 4 1 fingers combinations is a problem...
i got fd on y left hand on 2005 . i still have it . you gave me an idea when u say do tings in snaps ...
Eloy Hurtado Bermudez Good luck! I hope it helps. Cheers, Allen
I have been diagnosed with this disorder.....Any where I can have more information?
Hi Zak here.
A good place to start is by reading this classicalguitarmagazine.com/david-leisner-a-rare-victory-over-focal-dystonia-injuries-recovery-guitar/
Look for DOKUNO, helps lots of people if you wanna fix it by yourself.
Tons of videos on TH-cam, it's in Japanese tho... but worth to watch them!!!
The magic is don’t think too much, art is follow your heart, let the music be music😢
any way to get it off?
Sir, have you had any experience with tendonitis in the right forearm(inner and outer) from playing guitar?
Thank you very much for your videos!
I had had this issue in the outer part until an orthopedist became my guitar studend. He showed me an excercise with that I never got this issue again. Since then, many guitarists took advantage of this simple exercise I had shown them. Generally, you can use any streching excercise being used for problems in the forearm from playing tennis. Impoertant is that you do it very slowly and do not overstretch!
For the inner forearm try this (right forearm being stretched), it helped many guitarists, too:
1) Make a 90 ° angle between fore- and upper arm, while the elbow is placed a little bit near to the belly front.
2) Your is looking at your face.
3) Cross the right hand fingers in 90 ° over the left hand fingers. Left root knuckle of the left index finger is placed above the right pinky.
4) Place the left thump on the right back hand.
5) While the right hand fingers are totally passive, and stretch your arm slowly.
6) While stretching the arm, you increase the angle ONLY by pulling it with LEFT hand to the max (right hand ist totally passive). Be aware not overtretch. If you already feel the "pain" of the streched muscle, then can stay in this position for 5 to 7 seconds.
7) Now get back very slowly to the starting position while decreasing the angle and wait 7 seconds.
8) Repeat this process in the beginning 3 times plus 3 times a day.
On the 3rd day you can extend the stretching by pulling the passive right hand fingers with left hand a little bit more backwards. From day 5 on, you can make this excercise in a 5x turn. Good luck!
I don't have focal dystonia, but I've been playing piano for 12years and for some reason, my hand is getting weaker and weaker every day. Now, my skills are not as good as before and it's terrible thinking that you can't be good at it anymore
.
How are you feeling now?
People seem to think focal dystonia is caused by practicing too fast or not breaking down fundamental movements; that is false. It is thought people with focal dystonia have a genetic predisposition for developing focal dystonia. Also not everyone can be “cured” with slow broken down practice. This video has a slight implication that it is the musician’s fault that they have focal dystonia because of how they practiced and that they could get rid of their focal dystonia if they practiced differently and more slowly; that is not true. Focal dystonia can also be associated with nerve problems in the optic nerve and over stimulated nervous systems. It is very complicated.
but how do i prevent it? I play the guitar
Don’t play for hours and hours without any breaks this can cause it
I'm no doctor either, but it seems to me we all have experience with this, when you're learning a new pattern and if you're not paying enough attention you will automatically play a similar pattern you've practiced most not the new one you want. I bet this condition comes from doing exercises over and over mindlessly. This is the same issue apes have, they don't think about how they are moving their hand, they just do it, and apparently that's where their strength comes from, no fine motor control, it just all fires at once unconsciously.
Liona Boyd has FD
Personally I have found my so called dystonia to be nothing except a result of running before I could walk, physically and neurogically. I'd imagine that when it has happened to guitarists who patiently developed a good technique (unlike me) that they then continued running but without ever going back to walking, which is kinda what is said here in different words.
My full time busking career as a travelling 'classical' guitarist became very difficult as I had to continue running, in order to keep earning good money and living the troubadour dream.. I ended up learning a very clunky way of playing just using thumb and index which eventually caused carpal tunnel. However, fortunately I then found a very controversial treatment known as distilled fluids therapy, which kept the pain at bay from being so tense playing this way. I am only just now, thanks to this awful lockdown, starting to go back to mindful playing, as it is the only way to go with this, and starting from scratch. Busking inhibited me doing this. Thanks for a great video and being so compassionate for a potentially tragic outcome for any guitarist. Good luck to you all.
And it totaly works my friend..??? Im in stres now cz of this FD
@@godliefrafael it works yes, but you must guzzle a good 4 litres a day in my experience. I am dependent on it. Also essential oils and physiotherapy to help the arms as they tend to be more tense playing this way as they kinda have to overcompensate for what the fingers can no longer do. Eventually the unused fingers learn to come out from the palm, where you may find they will plant themselves tightly. They are looser now and I flail them every now and then and bite my tongue as to what the interesting sounds they might make from the strings. I can still play 3 hours a busk and I'm always fine these days. Are you using just thumb and index now too? It gives me a quirky edge as I have to find more finger 'strummy'ways of creating flourishes and quick note successions. I see it as being a bit like django rheinhart except the other hand. I actually quite like the strange way I play now. It is limiting but in a way has reigned me in to not run before walking. I wouldn't wish it on anyone though... study classical posture and take it easy everyone.
Are guitarists more exposed to this condition than other musicians?
Guitar is a very hard and awkward instrument to master.
Everything is hard, scale patterns, multiple ways to play the same melody/chord.
Same notes in many places, many strings, asymmetric tuning.
Scott Devine is a world class bassist and educator in the UK who also has FD and is able to play again thanks to the glove! Please see scottsbasslessons.com! Hope it can help you play to your potential! Please see the Musician’s Practice Glove at musicianslive. org - (we know it can be a bit controversial, but please hear us out)
I wear a glove now after watching Scotts video , It has helped greatly in my bass playing . Before learning of the glove I spent years on end searching in frustration for a diagnosis and treatment to no avail . I still can spasm at times with the glove on but it has been reduced by 90%.
Omg Allen i didn't know about it but I am really scared after i knew it ...
Yeah, everyone says that shit about 'slow repetitive motions.' Joaquin Farias teaches that bollocks, too.
I went to see him in Toronto. He's the world's greatest talker, but he does almost zero hands-on work.
I followed his advice for a full year, conscientiously every fucking day.
I gave it up. I saw, after one year of the most diligent practice (far more dedicated and fucking 'mindful' than I ever was practising the guitar), no improvement at all. Not one tiny thing. Nothing.
I have a very dim view of Farias. 3 days listening to him talk on and on and on at a fairly high cost.
He's super knowledge, obviously. But he does fuck all with it.
Now, he has some sort of platform to let you do 'whatever works.'
Taichi networking? Let's do line dancing!
White water rafting not doing it for you? Then you need to try your hand at miedevalomg distance bakery,,,!
Nothing no cure. You cannot get over this. You will have it for Life. 7 years with this now.
How are you now?
1:28 1:28 1:28 1:28 1:28 erghhh :D
this interesting approach isn't a way to recover from fd but a way to play music with fd... to cope with....ultimately you still remain invalid...let's hope future will provide better...
Focal dystonia almost ruined my life
Tell me about it.. It ruins you. Handicapped Totally. No Dexterity once so ever. Left hand- Ring and Pinky. I don't even want to say any more then that.
In the Philippines, we call that *"PASMA"* when your hands, feet, eyes, or any body parts that are tired were soaked or wet with water. We rest for a while like 20-30 mins before we take a bath or washing hands. They say that's a superstition but it seems true.
I'm just going to say it. You're wrong. Concentrating on small things is what caused it. Letting the dystonia do it's thing, letting go is the key. You've never suffered. Please take this down. You're actually communicating the cause.
This video needs to be taken down by the poster. He implies when he says “beware” that musicians get dystonia from how they practiced-it is a neurological disorder and something goes wrong in the nervous system. What he is saying creates a lot of judgment and shame around focal dystonia. He seems to think that just because he practices so carefully and slowly and breaks down movements that he won’t get focal dystonia. He doesn’t have focal dystonia because currently, he has nothing wrong with his nervous system. There are genetic factors. It is complicated. I won’t be told that some of the greatest musicians and even music teachers in the world didn’t understand the basic components of their technique. He doesn’t understand.
Focal Dystonia is not a diagnosis but a symptom.
"It's pretty bad." Ya think? SMH