One thing i like in community is how it deals with its characters flaws, they don’t try to hide it or just use this flaws just to make jokes, they acknowledge them without trying to completely change the characters , for example Jeff still has some of the same personality problems from episode 1 to the end but that doesn’t mean he didn’t develop as a man and a character. A great point you make is how their improvements don’t have to be thrown in our face, like some series do when a character gets “improved” by a situation that happens when some of his traits leads him to do a big mistake, just for at the end of the episode he shows how that situation really made him “better”.
I really like the way the characters are written as well in terms of flaws because it extends to all of them (all of them kinda suck a lot, not just Pierce) and despite their flaws we get how/why we might be friends with a handful of them. Beyond that, their flaws are often very normal in society/people even if the story lines are bizarre. An example is how Shirley is emotionally manipulative or Britta tried to shame others to feel better for herself. The shows doesn’t try to make them overly likeable people, which going back to a HIMYM comparison does. Ted in HIMYM sucks, and yet the shows trying to force him into this character we are suppose to disregard flaws of and just root for/love. Compared to Chang who is a villain in most seasons, we aren’t suppose to write off Chang as being terrible the audience is suppose to accept he sucks and like him for these pretty shitty traits. Community is probably my comfort show and that mainly comes down to how the show plays into the fault of the characters rather than masking them as “we are just suppose to like them”
It has to be added that, while I agree 100% with the beauty of Community's character's arcs being told by subtext, some arcs were handled better than others. I loved Troy's and Annie's the most, probably because they start out quite one-dimensional, and turn into wonderfully rich characters. Jeff's is also beautiful, although it could be said he goes through a mini-version of the same arc in almost every episode. Shirley's is alright, although she also starts out one-dimensional and absolutely grew as a person, I wished they would still emphasized the departure from the stubbornness that she started out with. Pierce on the other hand didn't really have an arc. He had his occasional moments of redemption, but generally just turned ever darker in season two and then just a gimmick from thereon. I feel even stronger about Britta. Although I don't agree with a lot of people that the character was ruined in later seasons, it is kind of disappointing how little of an arc she has if you view the whole of six seasons. My final point is this. It's not strange that Troy, Annie, Jeff and also Abed have such strong arcs. Troy and Annie are the heart of the show, turning from blandness to childlike wonder and emotional depth. Together they're the Heart arc. Jeff and Abed, turning respectively from asshole to sort of decent dude and from barely functioning nerd to well functioning nerd, are basically a representation of Dan Harmon's two personalities (and personal growth during the course of the show), and represent the Human arc. ;)
I think Pierce had a strong arc in seasons 1-3, 4 was used sparsely as Chevy was feuding with Dan behind the scenes. His last appearance was on the premiere of the fifth season where his speech to Jeff I think summarized himself and the college perfectly. Pierce is the generational/outsider arc.
I think it would be really cool if you did an analysis on brittas reverse character development, I feel like no one talks about how or why she goes from a witty, snarky, confident woman to being known as an idiot
nobody talks about it because it's one of the aspects where Harmon clearly screwed up and they don't want to bash him. also because (imo) Britta's initial role in the script was partly delegated to Annie, it almost feels like they didn't know what to do with two smart attractive women on screen so they made one of them dumb
I know I'm 2 years late, but it was probably because she was made the punching bag of the group. When your closest friends treat you like that, it really whittles away at your confidence and self-image.
Dang, your explanation of Troy got me emotional. And when you think about him becoming Childish Gambino it really makes you wonder more about the sincerity of his role in Community and what it probably meant to him. He and Abed practically made that show, for me. Thanks for the cool perspective.
The way I saw it, Community had less serious undertones as the HIMYM episode, but due to the nature of the show, it had the opportunity to be portrayed more realistically as a result.
Very interesting video. In my opinion: -Ir is Troy, Annie and Abed that have arcs in the common sense, the youngs. They all come in insecure (Troy the jock, Annie Adderall, artistic Abed), they all compete and struggle (Annie with Britta, Troy with Jeff, Abed for his friends, especially Jeff and Troy), and in the end they all leave as grown ups (Troy aware that he has to figure himself out, Abed accepting and embracing his weirdness and talent, Annie with a bright profesional future). -Pierce and Shirley are more complicated. On the one hand, their characters leave randomly due to extra narrative reasons. But more importantly: Shirley's arc is about becoming a self actualized version of a mother (reconnects with Ben, now has a business), whereas Pierce gets more and more lost, reflecting the Chevy Chase behind. -Jeff and Britta's arcs are more internas, about self acceptance. Jeff has to grow and to stop creating, even if that will not make him the bigshot lawyer he used to be. Britta has to accept her clumsiness and her family, because she is alright and certainly not the worst.
I think shows like Community's writing is more successful now because they can release episodes in order on platforms like Netflix and people will watch the episodes in order, rather than shows like how I met your mother which was designed to play re runs on TV, so viewers will not nessicarily have watched every episode and know what's going on. You said you watched the episodes out of order and it changed the characters completely, which is partly why I believe the show wasn't super successful on TV, but has a growing audience more so now then eber before. It goes to show to have the thoughtful writing and character development is hard when you can't gaurentee your viewers have watched previous episodes, so writers feel inclined to explain clearly what's going on so it is less confusing for the viewer.
I recently saw a video title "10 worst characters in Community" and it had Elroy in the thumbnail. My initial thought was How DARE they diss Elroy like that. But then I realized that being one of the worst characters on Community still means it's probably a great character.
she wasnt a real activist that was the joke she did most of the good stuff to seem like a better person a real activist does good stuff because its the right thing to do
Awesome! Nice look at a show I watch almost daily, but rarely dissect or examine. I've seen community probably 15+ times all the way through, but I rarely look deeply into it.
how i met your mother is one of my favourite shows, but i agree. i do think that there are a lot of scenes where they handle things pretty realistically in HIMYM (or at least have episodes with realistic messages) and i don't mind dramatic scenes since it's television, but i love how community only has a few moments of characters fully realising their emotional issued and flaws. it also helps that abed is usually the one who guides them into this mindset where the characters can view themselves from an objective standpoint, since he sorta views himself as a tv character.
Good community videos man! But kind of random editing choices, just putting in random clips and stuff sometimes. But I really like them keep doing it! :)
There actually was an episode with Jeff meeting his real father in season 4, you should’ve compared that episode with himym. Cause the episode you choose while a better episode still didn’t show Jeff actually meet his father
one of the key principles of storytelling is show, don’t tell and it annoys me when specific mediums or genres (in this case sitcoms) act like they are exempt from it
When I watched the series in its entirety for the first time, I saw the study group as flawed, but relatable, not perfect but fundamentally decent humans struggling to be as good as they can and even better, but not being able to completely overcome their shortcomings of character. after the second time watching it entirely, I was of the opinion that with the possible exception of Troy, that the Greendale 7 were like the gang in it's always sunny, complete irredeemable scumbags, who change but never improve
You got a sub for comparing two of my favorite of all time shows but then subsequently lost one for tearing down one of the best scenes from HIMYM. Barney needed to scream it. Needed. It needed to be unsubtle, as it needed to counter him as a character who didnt care. I feel you missed the point there, while you did get it right with Community.
Yeah it's definitely a really good scene, and I would agree one of the best in How I Met Your Mother, I was just trying to show how Community could do the same thing but with (in my opinion) more realistic dialogue and character work, that functions in a more subtle way. Wasn't trying to tear down HIMYM, just trying to use it for a comparison. Thanks for watching the video, and for your feedback!
He definitely needed to scream it, but when in your life have you ever been so emotional that you screamed, and said EXACTLY what you wanted/needed to say? The video is meant to show that people, real people, almost always act irrationally when faced with their own emotions, and then usually learn their lesson or get closure at a later point. I don't think the video takes away from Barney's moment, just points out how different the two shows' styles are.
Barney's scene is wish fulfillment... what people in his situation wish they could say in an emotional moment with the benefit of a stable of writers giving them poingnant dialogue. Jeff's reaction is more true to life.
@@dw1419 whoa, flash from the past. I get your argument, but I feel like what Barney said was pretty true to life. I feel like he was thinking that screed all night and it just boiled over. Agree to disagree I suppose.
You just compared my 2 favourite shows. I do prefer HIMYM though. I see your point and I agree HIMYM usually isn’t very subtle, but I think the moments have enough build up to create a powerful moment. The realism of the situation doesn’t matter to me that much. HIMYM creates a lot of heartbreaking moments, and so does Community. So I guess I dont’t disagree with you since you gave HIMYM credit as well, just a matter of personal prefrence. I would say Community isn’t always subtle. I’m mostly referring to the many Winger speeches at the end of a lot of episodes. Community has a clear theme every episode that it definitely makes clear, and those subtlety progress the big arcs of the characters, while I think HIMYM does the opposite, where every episode had a theme too, but not as clear, and they clearly progress the main story. This is very clear in HIMYM season 6, which is my favourite season. Both these strategies work just as well if done right, which in both shows it is, it’s just a different way to make a show. Great video and you’ve earned a new subscriber. Looking forward to what you’ll discuss next.
Yeah i definitely agree with you, and I didn't mean for it to seem like I was knocking HIMYM, which is also one of my favorite shows, I was just trying to use it for comparison sake. Thanks so much for watching the video!
that is why its season 4 SUCKs. The writers seem to exploit every unexplained/unfinished storyline in order to keep people watching so they literally bring EVERYTHING up but fails to connect with the viewers.
follow me on twitter to be streets ahead
twitter.com/ItsLiamAlan
One thing i like in community is how it deals with its characters flaws, they don’t try to hide it or just use this flaws just to make jokes, they acknowledge them without trying to completely change the characters , for example Jeff still has some of the same personality problems from episode 1 to the end but that doesn’t mean he didn’t develop as a man and a character. A great point you make is how their improvements don’t have to be thrown in our face, like some series do when a character gets “improved” by a situation that happens when some of his traits leads him to do a big mistake, just for at the end of the episode he shows how that situation really made him “better”.
I really like the way the characters are written as well in terms of flaws because it extends to all of them (all of them kinda suck a lot, not just Pierce) and despite their flaws we get how/why we might be friends with a handful of them. Beyond that, their flaws are often very normal in society/people even if the story lines are bizarre. An example is how Shirley is emotionally manipulative or Britta tried to shame others to feel better for herself. The shows doesn’t try to make them overly likeable people, which going back to a HIMYM comparison does. Ted in HIMYM sucks, and yet the shows trying to force him into this character we are suppose to disregard flaws of and just root for/love. Compared to Chang who is a villain in most seasons, we aren’t suppose to write off Chang as being terrible the audience is suppose to accept he sucks and like him for these pretty shitty traits. Community is probably my comfort show and that mainly comes down to how the show plays into the fault of the characters rather than masking them as “we are just suppose to like them”
he really did embrace his "CHILDISH" side :( I hope he comes back for the movie
I didn’t really care about Troy either in like the first season. He really grew on me and became on of my faves
Donald Glover really did a great job
It has to be added that, while I agree 100% with the beauty of Community's character's arcs being told by subtext, some arcs were handled better than others. I loved Troy's and Annie's the most, probably because they start out quite one-dimensional, and turn into wonderfully rich characters. Jeff's is also beautiful, although it could be said he goes through a mini-version of the same arc in almost every episode. Shirley's is alright, although she also starts out one-dimensional and absolutely grew as a person, I wished they would still emphasized the departure from the stubbornness that she started out with. Pierce on the other hand didn't really have an arc. He had his occasional moments of redemption, but generally just turned ever darker in season two and then just a gimmick from thereon. I feel even stronger about Britta. Although I don't agree with a lot of people that the character was ruined in later seasons, it is kind of disappointing how little of an arc she has if you view the whole of six seasons.
My final point is this. It's not strange that Troy, Annie, Jeff and also Abed have such strong arcs. Troy and Annie are the heart of the show, turning from blandness to childlike wonder and emotional depth. Together they're the Heart arc. Jeff and Abed, turning respectively from asshole to sort of decent dude and from barely functioning nerd to well functioning nerd, are basically a representation of Dan Harmon's two personalities (and personal growth during the course of the show), and represent the Human arc. ;)
well said :)
I think Pierce had a strong arc in seasons 1-3, 4 was used sparsely as Chevy was feuding with Dan behind the scenes. His last appearance was on the premiere of the fifth season where his speech to Jeff I think summarized himself and the college perfectly. Pierce is the generational/outsider arc.
I think it would be really cool if you did an analysis on brittas reverse character development, I feel like no one talks about how or why she goes from a witty, snarky, confident woman to being known as an idiot
nobody talks about it because it's one of the aspects where Harmon clearly screwed up and they don't want to bash him. also because (imo) Britta's initial role in the script was partly delegated to Annie, it almost feels like they didn't know what to do with two smart attractive women on screen so they made one of them dumb
I know I'm 2 years late, but it was probably because she was made the punching bag of the group. When your closest friends treat you like that, it really whittles away at your confidence and self-image.
They also changed Chang's character to be dumb. At least he got the monkey bites to explain but still.
Really dug what you had to say about Troy's arc. Great point.
Thanks man, Donald Glover is the best.
Dang, your explanation of Troy got me emotional. And when you think about him becoming Childish Gambino it really makes you wonder more about the sincerity of his role in Community and what it probably meant to him. He and Abed practically made that show, for me. Thanks for the cool perspective.
Thanks for watching the video! I totally agree about Troy and Abed too, they were the best.
The way I saw it, Community had less serious undertones as the HIMYM episode, but due to the nature of the show, it had the opportunity to be portrayed more realistically as a result.
Very interesting video.
In my opinion:
-Ir is Troy, Annie and Abed that have arcs in the common sense, the youngs. They all come in insecure (Troy the jock, Annie Adderall, artistic Abed), they all compete and struggle (Annie with Britta, Troy with Jeff, Abed for his friends, especially Jeff and Troy), and in the end they all leave as grown ups (Troy aware that he has to figure himself out, Abed accepting and embracing his weirdness and talent, Annie with a bright profesional future).
-Pierce and Shirley are more complicated. On the one hand, their characters leave randomly due to extra narrative reasons. But more importantly: Shirley's arc is about becoming a self actualized version of a mother (reconnects with Ben, now has a business), whereas Pierce gets more and more lost, reflecting the Chevy Chase behind.
-Jeff and Britta's arcs are more internas, about self acceptance. Jeff has to grow and to stop creating, even if that will not make him the bigshot lawyer he used to be. Britta has to accept her clumsiness and her family, because she is alright and certainly not the worst.
That "uh huh" from Jeff lol
I heard "I'm gonna unplug you from the matrix Pierce."
I think shows like Community's writing is more successful now because they can release episodes in order on platforms like Netflix and people will watch the episodes in order, rather than shows like how I met your mother which was designed to play re runs on TV, so viewers will not nessicarily have watched every episode and know what's going on. You said you watched the episodes out of order and it changed the characters completely, which is partly why I believe the show wasn't super successful on TV, but has a growing audience more so now then eber before. It goes to show to have the thoughtful writing and character development is hard when you can't gaurentee your viewers have watched previous episodes, so writers feel inclined to explain clearly what's going on so it is less confusing for the viewer.
I am listening buddy (first sub)
It's nice to know that I've still got the OG out here, it actually mean a lot
Really enjoyed this take on one of Community's best aspects. Thank you.
Great video, you got a sub from me. I do have to say it’s an unfair comparison, it should be the episode where Jeff actually confronts his father.
In my opinion, Troy is the best character on the show.
I recently saw a video title "10 worst characters in Community" and it had Elroy in the thumbnail. My initial thought was How DARE they diss Elroy like that. But then I realized that being one of the worst characters on Community still means it's probably a great character.
If you were gonna be some lame suburban dad, why couldn’t you have been that for me. Gets me every time
I agree with you! I like how you think. Keep it up
Nice video man! I loved it, community is a great show haha
Britta I feel was the biggest misstep in the show. The writers clearly had no idea how to write a realistically nuanced activist.
she wasnt a real activist that was the joke she did most of the good stuff to seem like a better person a real activist does good stuff because its the right thing to do
Awesome! Nice look at a show I watch almost daily, but rarely dissect or examine. I've seen community probably 15+ times all the way through, but I rarely look deeply into it.
Great breakdown! Please make more vids about community which is also my fav show of all time!
Why is this just now getting recommend?
Great video
awesome video!! i loved it!
how i met your mother is one of my favourite shows, but i agree. i do think that there are a lot of scenes where they handle things pretty realistically in HIMYM (or at least have episodes with realistic messages) and i don't mind dramatic scenes since it's television, but i love how community only has a few moments of characters fully realising their emotional issued and flaws. it also helps that abed is usually the one who guides them into this mindset where the characters can view themselves from an objective standpoint, since he sorta views himself as a tv character.
Good community videos man! But kind of random editing choices, just putting in random clips and stuff sometimes. But I really like them keep doing it! :)
There actually was an episode with Jeff meeting his real father in season 4, you should’ve compared that episode with himym. Cause the episode you choose while a better episode still didn’t show Jeff actually meet his father
found you on reddit and subbed :)
Thanks man, that really means a lot!
Never heard someone say they like Community for its subtly before.
That first video was amazing. This must be just as good
one of the key principles of storytelling is show, don’t tell and it annoys me when specific mediums or genres (in this case sitcoms) act like they are exempt from it
Who tf watches a show out of order? 4:59 XD
Ye that made no sense
Tv viewers
He’s a fucking madman
When I watched the series in its entirety for the first time, I saw the study group as flawed, but relatable, not perfect but fundamentally decent humans struggling to be as good as they can and even better, but not being able to completely overcome their shortcomings of character. after the second time watching it entirely, I was of the opinion that with the possible exception of Troy, that the Greendale 7 were like the gang in it's always sunny, complete irredeemable scumbags, who change but never improve
I'm listening!
You got a sub for comparing two of my favorite of all time shows but then subsequently lost one for tearing down one of the best scenes from HIMYM. Barney needed to scream it. Needed. It needed to be unsubtle, as it needed to counter him as a character who didnt care. I feel you missed the point there, while you did get it right with Community.
Yeah it's definitely a really good scene, and I would agree one of the best in How I Met Your Mother, I was just trying to show how Community could do the same thing but with (in my opinion) more realistic dialogue and character work, that functions in a more subtle way. Wasn't trying to tear down HIMYM, just trying to use it for a comparison. Thanks for watching the video, and for your feedback!
He definitely needed to scream it, but when in your life have you ever been so emotional that you screamed, and said EXACTLY what you wanted/needed to say? The video is meant to show that people, real people, almost always act irrationally when faced with their own emotions, and then usually learn their lesson or get closure at a later point. I don't think the video takes away from Barney's moment, just points out how different the two shows' styles are.
Barney's scene is wish fulfillment... what people in his situation wish they could say in an emotional moment with the benefit of a stable of writers giving them poingnant dialogue. Jeff's reaction is more true to life.
@@dw1419 whoa, flash from the past. I get your argument, but I feel like what Barney said was pretty true to life. I feel like he was thinking that screed all night and it just boiled over. Agree to disagree I suppose.
@@alexandermorrow7047 haha sorry, with Community's resurgence, TH-cam is recommending a lot of past videos about it =)
You just compared my 2 favourite shows. I do prefer HIMYM though. I see your point and I agree HIMYM usually isn’t very subtle, but I think the moments have enough build up to create a powerful moment. The realism of the situation doesn’t matter to me that much. HIMYM creates a lot of heartbreaking moments, and so does Community. So I guess I dont’t disagree with you since you gave HIMYM credit as well, just a matter of personal prefrence. I would say Community isn’t always subtle. I’m mostly referring to the many Winger speeches at the end of a lot of episodes. Community has a clear theme every episode that it definitely makes clear, and those subtlety progress the big arcs of the characters, while I think HIMYM does the opposite, where every episode had a theme too, but not as clear, and they clearly progress the main story. This is very clear in HIMYM season 6, which is my favourite season.
Both these strategies work just as well if done right, which in both shows it is, it’s just a different way to make a show.
Great video and you’ve earned a new subscriber. Looking forward to what you’ll discuss next.
Yeah i definitely agree with you, and I didn't mean for it to seem like I was knocking HIMYM, which is also one of my favorite shows, I was just trying to use it for comparison sake. Thanks so much for watching the video!
His... Childish... side.
Was this video a school project?
We just gonna neglect the 12,000 people who watched--
Edit- Bad spelling hehe
that is why its season 4 SUCKs. The writers seem to exploit every unexplained/unfinished storyline in order to keep people watching so they literally bring EVERYTHING up but fails to connect with the viewers.
grounded is the worst way to describe community
I really hate abed.
that’s cause youre streets behind