As someone who does work in games, anytime a studio says "we're family" it is a huge red flag. Those same companies will cut you at the first chance they can just to save a few dollars.
I think one of the biggest mistake from Bungie was capitalizing so much on FOMO, Fear Of Missing Out. There's no interest in new players picking up the game because they'll never get to enjoy the experiences that Bungie have sunset. I haven't played in years because everytime I reinstall the game, there's so much stories and missions that I didn't get to enjoy that I can't connect to what's currently going on and I quickly get frustrated and just stop playing again.
The seasonal stories being gutted from the game each year is one of the most baffling decisions I’ve ever seen in any game in my entire life and it’s one of the main things that keeps me from truly investing in Destiny. Destiny’s seasonal model is the absolute worst thing I’ve ever seen in an mmo
My experience "playing" Destiny has pretty much devolved to logging in every once in a blue moon to shoot Dregs at EDZ for 10 minutes then signing out... I still follow the lore though...
@@Nan0Cell there came a point where there was just too many expansions, way too much money had to be invested into the game to catch up. It was ridiculous, even more ridiculous that they later sell the expansions for chump change
Byf you somewhat touched on it with morale, but I think you forgot a fourth major issue: the game is incredible unfriendly and confusing to new players. The "New Light" experience is bad, and that's compounded by the vaulting of major storyline content that would provide any new players with actual investment and context for the overarching Destiny story. This is probably the main issue the game hasn't been profitable. You can't sustain a 10-year game by just hoping that people who played it 10 years ago are going to stick with it. Sure, Destiny 3 could "solve" this issue temporarily while everyone starts off on a level playing field, but the issue would remain long-term if Bungie doesn't design narrative content that a new player can experience start to finish to build investment in the world and story - like virtually every other online RPG out there. Of course, I realize that solving this problem is tied to leadership being replaced, as actual developers, designers, etc have been complaining about the new player experience for years, but it's fallen on deaf ears.
@@mrsmi1ey Agreed. This is far more important factor than a lot of other issues. There needs to be a real fix to onboarding, I don’t know how, but there needs to be an experience for new players letting them enjoy the last ten years of content whilst having the highlights of past seasons. What’s the point of launching mobile games and trying to attract younger players if the current experiences alienate so many.
@@robf Yeah. If Bungie didn't remove content, The Red War is the best place to start, and it'd be an amazing leeway to the rest of the content in the game.
@@mrsmi1ey Absolutely a consistent problem with D2. It’s an incredibly incoherent design to the onboarding process that’s almost hostile to a new player. I shouldn’t have to Sherpa friends through the content just so they can figure it out. Add on top of that either confusing or cost prohibitive content model. It’s not surprising that each expansion has either sold similar or less than the time before from a certain point. No real growth.
There's something called the Kano Model, that details satisfiers, dissatisfiers and delighters with a given service or product. Satisfiers are when you get exactly what you expect and your opinion doesn't change, dissatisfiers are self explanatory, and delighters are when you're pleasantly surprised by something that goes above and beyond. I'd say the only delighters in D2s history were Forsaken and Final Shape, and they're surrounded by years and years of very predictable satisfiers and a few expansions that have been huge dissatisfiers. It sucks, but I think Bungie just isn't capable of another delighter after layoffs and the non-stop battle against a very difficult engine.
The disgusting thing is that employees who are "more expendable" are almost always those who directly contributed to the success of the product. The "valuable" executive almost always does not *do* anything, does not *create* anything, and barely understands what happens in the trenches (so to speak). These executives are often like the dreaded ringknocker whose only claim to competence is that they are wearing an officer's dress uniform.
What’s more frustrating about what you just said is that these do nothings are the obstacle to the actual devs who want to fix things. They literally stand in the way and when a dlc doesn’t make enough money because players are upset things were not fixed. The dev looses their job. It’s not right at all and I’m getting pissed all over again.
Sony taking over Destiny may not be all doom and gloom. This may be nonsense, but Leaks have claimed that Sony wants Destiny to be their Star Wars and “nurture” it into a big franchise, as they apparently consider it “Lightning in a Bottle” This actually would explain why Sony gave Bungie Billions. Their negotiations was probably something like “You want more Franchising for Destiny? A TV Show? Novels? Maybe a Movie? Spin-off games? We can do all that, on the condition that you give us the funds to make them ourselves, and we remain internally independent.” Sony gave them all of this and Bungie failed to hold up their end of the bargain, so now Sonys thinking “Fine, I’ll do it myself…”
These quotes are a year old, my friend, and corporations move quickly. They don't feel like Destiny is special anymore. Sony just wants their $3.6 billion dollars worth. They absorbed project Gummy Bears and they're fixing to absorb more of Bungie if Marathon isn't a blockbuster hit. If Sony has to cut Destiny off, they will. Then they will reinvest Bungie's skeleton towards whatever other venture for profit, to make themselves useful. The executives at Bungie have got to go before its too late to save the franchise.
I hate to think about to think about corporations as anything more than that, but god having to face the lesser of two evils and the greater of two corporations? It feels bad
Sony's main priority. Removal fo Pete Parsons because that man is a walking liability to Bungie. Him misappropriating the funds for... cars... is evident enough
38:00 I would love a fresh start. I wouldn't mind losing all my loot and things I've grinded for. Almost 5700 hours into the game. What a decade it has been. But again I'd like a blank canvas to paint on again :)
I have never seen a company go from "It's Over" to "We're so back" so fast, so many times and more importantly convince their fanbase every single time it happens that THIS is the new status quo, besides bungie
For real, when we all beat the final shape at launch I was so sure this was only the beginning of the story since I have access to their 4D construct of time. But then the community said it wasn’t gunna happen and so I stopped caring. Whether I experience vicariously via 2D media or directly via 3D reality is inconsequential to me so long as I get to experience since the point of ones existence is to choose their experiences. All I truly know is that the ball is now in your guy’s courts. You will all make decisions, you will all consent to different things. Some realities throughout this multiverse will have the game, others won’t. All that matters is what 3D moments we choose to stitch together via this 4D construct of time. And maybe it’s time to focus on the world as a whole so we leave something behind when we dip and move on to other constructs of time.
@@giran4914 basically 2D media is a way for higher dimensional crap to show themselves to us in a form we can comprehend. For example, before we ever had fandoms for movies, tv shows and video games, we had religions for books
@@lokinslawomir0793 hell yeah, I would have it no other way. Gotta be in the thick of it or else I may as well have untethered from my vessel all those years ago and just moved on letting those things have their way with you guys through my vessel since I would no longer be there as an NPC in between mind and body to dictate which scripts/thoughts get to become reality.
Thanks💘 You didn't just hit the nail on the head, you drove it through the stud with a 10lb sledgehammer. You reached into my brain and spoke all of my hopes AND misgivings. I'll be sure to share this video everywhere I go.
Got my friends to download that free expansion pack on PlayStation and there’s three of us total. So I was like “let’s do a dungeon they’re super chill and fun”… you still need a fucking dungeon key while you have the expansion.
Yeah this paywall left a bad taste in my mouth early on. I continued for another year or so, but every time I saw those dungeons on my map, I got a little angry.
40:08 The idea of playing as other races in a sequel sounds great. Knowing that not all hive follow one of the sisters and are free to choose for themselves makes me wonder if a 300 year time skip would bring hive to the Vanguard. If Luzaku didnt exist i wouldn't even consider it.
Talking about the movement in Warframe reminds me how most of us wanted them to expand on the factions, make them more relevant, incorporate them in the narrative, etc... and Bungie's response was to remove factions.
Warframe's dev cycle has problems of its own. I quit around Railjack/Kuva Liches because they had been so overpromised and came out underdelivering so hard that I could not get any more enthusiasm to play the game. I've recently picked the game back up but I'm making a point not to watch the devstreams or tennocon simply because DE will lie to my face about upcoming features and I cannot take that emotional rollercoaster of hype and disappointment again.
@@VallornDeathblade The absolute train wreck that Empyrean & Railjack were - having the content delivered in haphazard, barely cohesive & barely functional parts - made me extremely weary of anything major DE would announce going forward. They _may_ have learned a little bit over the years considering that Tennocon 2024 is centred and focused on showing off _1_ major update than the handful they tried to hype the community up with years back, but with the reception I'm seeing of 'The Lotus Eaters'... ye, still treading lightly with that game.
@@OfficialR3M1X Railjack was made worse by being launched right before the entire studio went on Christmas break. So we went for nearly 2 months without a single hotfix while the brand new mode languished in that broken state.
well lotus eaters was only received poorly becuase they said its was a "short quest" instead of a "prologue" which they then apologized for. Thats not great but its a pretty minor mistake. The quest itself was fine when taken as a prologue to 1999.
Having played both, they have some of the same problems as far as content speed goes. Enjoy it while it's fresh, because you'll hit a wall where you can't do much else beyond grinding mastery rank.
As a D1 year 1 veteran, I'm all in for a fresh start. I have actually thought about a time skip with our player dead or lost and starting fresh as a new character. I think it would be great to experience new Destiny magic again. As for anyone complaining about their gear, it is a looter game. The grind is part of the fun. I'd gladly give up my gear and power for a fresh start with new graphics, gameplay, and secrets.
Honestly I agree. I’m a year 1 D1 player, I practically grew up with this game. I think D2 is too cluttered and messed up. If I were bundle I’d dedicate the remaining content to wrapping things up and introducing a new ‘saga’ then move things over to a third game. Completely different story, different ideas, different content model (which is really important because imo the current content model is actively killing the franchise). They need to take their time, give us actual endgame content and make a good story (which we literally know they CAN do). And above all they need prove they aren’t greedy and that they actually respect the player base. There’s a lot of trust to earn back but I do think there is a large group of players who would be willing to give the game a fresh start and a second chance.
@@SamStraker If marathon flops they won't learn - they'll just be gone. If Marathon is successful they might actually have the financial breathing room they need to make D3.
Byf, I love your Destiny 3 ideas. Just listening to and picturing it make me get emotional about what it feels like we're missing. I miss feeling like im completely in over my head with lore, that there's a massive untapped world here. I want that game, that fresh start more than anything.
Bungie's principal mistake was all the incubation projects. They got too confident that D2 was in a stable spot or *expected* to be stable with TFS and started spreading people and resources to other projects. Destiny is not only their Flagship IP, it's their *only* IP. Nobody is looking at Marathon right now. If their flagship can't consistently stay afloat, any other projects will sink.
And now they've turned Marathon into a hero shooter, so 99% chance that's gonna get Concord-ed because nobody is interested in that genre anymore. Bungie doesn't just need to cook. They need to magically come up with a 5 star meal to get Destiny and the community back on their feet, and they need to go back to the drawing board with 1 other project to diversify their finances. But first, they need to rid themselves of Pete, and I think Sony is gonna have to do that themselves.
@Enzar17 Straight facts. I was maybe interested in a extraction shooter, but another hero shooter? In this economy?! Marathon was such a bad idea in so many ways, and in such a horrible genre to experiment in.
@@motherbeanmtb6473 hopefully Marathon flopping will get Sony interested in investing back into Destiny (yk, the game that people actually like) and not just scrapping bungie essentially. But that’s a lot to ask of heartless corporate greed
The "Leaders & executives" were too confident and how the developers under them and the players who consume the content, have all paid the price for that over confidence
I think this is exactly WHY they decided to make those incubation projects in the first place. It’s the idea of don’t shoot your magic goose while it’s still laying golden eggs, they tried to branch out knowing eventually Destiny would start to dry up. What I don’t think they expected was NONE of the incubation projects would come to fruition, they’d have a financial drop off from Lightfall, AND Marathon would get delayed as much as it has. They were trying to create extra stability for the studio so it didn’t have to rely on the rocky foundations of Destiny, but nothing ended up happening so they just wasted a bunch of money that was meant to be helping them. It’s like the biggest stroke of bad luck ever.
on the topic of transmog. i saw a post of a d2 player moving to ffxiv who was absolutely baffled by how open the glamor system was compared to d2. no paying for material to unlock transmog pieces outside if 5 per season. just one big box where you can put 800 pieces of gear to glam to your hearts content.
Destiny 3 would be worth it to reduce the tech debt alone - which they've cited as the reason for removing entire expansions before. Being able to make new content on a foundation unburdened by the last 7 years of experimentation holding it down would make the workload easier, the content better, and the future more stable. Unfortunately, "we're making a sequel to reduce the tech debt" doesn't sit well with the lowest common denominator of people playing the game, nor does it speak to shareholders. I truly worry Destiny is gonna be in a permanent limbo of suffering under its own weight until a new fresh entry is made, which feels unlikely for hopefully obvious reasons.
This is my number one reason for a D3. It’s almost not even about improving the gameplay - D2 was never meant to survive this long and its original architecture does not fit a perpetual live-service model. It’s clunky and meant for a game designed as a box-title release. A D3 is needed in order to create a path for more modular, long-term development in a way that D2 is incapable of doing. That and the core gameplay model for Destiny, frankly, needs a refresh badly. The game feels too much like a job, and I think most of the community is tired of it.
The one thing I think about when people mention d3 is the amount of people constantly complaining a while back about them bringing back d1 exotics. Can't wait to go through that again x2
D2 at launch was essentially a DLC to D1 copy and pasted everything from the previous game over. Made no noticeable upgrades or additions. keep in mind it was a game that was created on the ps3 consoles. Should've never been the game that was built upon for years and years. Should've been a fresh start D3 somewhere in the 2020s with it actually being upgraded heavily, new engine new characters- abilities enemies and all that and only then should it had been the game that was sustained for years and years
With the Helm as our one-stop shop for a lot of the seasons and now the Episodes as a base, and with the Failsafe system hooked into the ship, I do wonder if there’s an idea on the team to fly us outside of the system of Sol and move the story from a home we defend to an enemy we’re hunting down to stop on their home turf.
I hear you, I’ve stopped playing and I can go as far to say that some of overall love of gaming has died with Destiny. I’m having a hard time investing my time in another game at the moment. Maybe it’s the gaming market in general or possibly I feel like I just can’t invest the same time I did in Destiny for it too just fall off the cliff like Destiny did.
WoW is still popping off after 20years so Bungie can do it but it looks like they don't see the value in Destiny. Warframe after 10 years still going very strong. Bungie has no one to blame but themselves. Destiny 3 wont make a difference, bungie will find themselves in this exact same spot in the future. There is no WoW 2 or Warframe 2...
With or without the queer stories? Take all that out and you have a game that appeals to the original player base that helped make the game the success it was.
@@KingBreadSliceProbably osiris and saint glazing eachother in every dialogue they're in nowadays and the current villain being gay too. The plot of this episode is basically gay couple vs abusive lesbian.
@@evanarmstrong6717Probably osiris and saint glazing eachother in every dialogue they're in nowadays and the current villain being gay too. The plot of this episode is basically gay couple vs abusive lesbian.
I absolutely LOVE the lore of this game, owning all of the grimoire books. But recent events have just forced me out into other games like Final Fantasy and NieR for expansive stories. They need to treat the company like a house. Remove the rotten timbers and replace them with those unaffected by rot. I don't have much faith in this game as of this moment. And it hurts.
I really miss been excited about Destiny. This game was so special and unique back when I start playing (Taken King) but now; not only its very outdated, but also I don't have the emotional energy to deal with the bullshit. I still love the community and hope to meet them again in another game, Destiny 3 or not.
Fr. Destiny forced the fps genre forward with good movement and shooting. The thing that made it stand out so much has become industry standard, it isnt a selling point
@@richardcobbs8603 i really don't get this, every time i played with LFG or something involving teamwork in destiny i always had a great time with randoms. i get that there are some ppl that are dicks but that doesn't mean you should base you're opinion on a smaller player base.
I think the lack of innovation in the game is to blame. The last new thing they did was onslaught which coincidentally is the best thing they’ve done in forever. Before that the only really different thing they included was gambit which was so many years ago.
TFA had some excellent experimentation. Dual Destiny was a great concept executed well, and Cooperative story missions could have used some more time to cook (Bringing back Berserkers was... a choice) but the idea gave a fresh experience to replaying campaign missions. Then you have Salvation's Edge and Verity which is unlike any other raid encounter we've ever seen. The main issue is this just didn't continue, Episode One just ended up being a stretched out season with big holes of nothing happening in the middle of the story making Destiny's usual narrative problem of "hurry up so you can wait" feel even worse than normal. It's a very one step forwards, three steps back situation right now.
@@historyandpoliticsexplaine4876 bingo That’s also my opinion. Bungie listened to hardcore streamers pro raiders with multiple day 1 raid belts and made the difficulty FOR that very very small group. It would be fine to add many difficulty options and modes, but Bungie started to implement that into everything, into the strike playlist even, in seasonal activities etc etc It has pushed myself and my casual friends away. We just liked shooting aliens after work. Not hours of wipes and failures on comms calling out complex Symbols. I am actually hoping Destiny Rising is what I want to play, since D2 is no longer FUN for me and buddies. Maybe Rising will be the chill fast FUN gameplay and just turn the brain off and shoot things with friends game.
Hearing the phrase "whose jobs are more expendable" about people who actually do the job upsets me. Upper management is more expendable. Grunt workers are invaluable. This dialog needs to change. I'm sick of hearing it.
@@RobbieBise whether we like it or not, it's far easier to hirer a dev then a CEO or other upper management; this, more expendable. We may not like it, but that's how that works.
as a person who has been in board meetings, I would say Byf's take about their attitude would make Bungie execs laugh out loud...no experience in this industry but to say they don't care what employees think or feel is an understatement, they will say whatever it takes to get you back to work
Time skip would definitely add some freshness to the world. New characters, new cities, new environments. On the flip side, explanations to what happened to our favorite characters. Love this idea Byf.
Destiny 3 shouldn’t be hard to do. Bungie can do a time skip of 30-50 years. New universe. New guardians. Your guardian is a young man/woman who is attending guardian school and ready to fight the darkness. The guardian arrives at school and is waiting in class when suddenly your D2 guardian (you can only pick one class to transfer to D3) walks in and give a speech about how your whole life is about change. Your D2 guardian will be a mentor to your D3 character sharing stories of crota, oryx, argos, galhran and etc.
The Warframe analogy at 22:50 is something I've used to explain the huge issue with the developers of Helldivers 2 and the decisions they've made on the game post-launch. If they made Warframe, the game would almost certainly no longer be around.
If we ever get a Destiny 3, I want an ENTIRELY new enemy faction: No Taken zombies, no splinter faction Red Legion, no unknown underling War Beasts, no mutated freak Dread: Something that is 100% alien to us and we have to work out from the ground up.
Some players compared Final Shape, to Destiny’s “Endgame”. I fear the franchise may encounter the same problem the MCU is: after its big saga that kept its community invested ended, everything after, if too bland, will feel boring/lackluster. Many general audiences have left the MCU behind. Many fans have also left. What Destiny needs, is a big story, and soon. Something to emphasize this new chapter. A big narrative event that gets alarm ringing.
It's not just that the main story arc ended, it's that everything that followed was also dog water. How can anyone remain invested in the mcu when the only film that treated the franchise with any reverence was no way home? The Episodes face the same problem, and given that at the moment it seems like they're "Seasons -1", many aren't optimistic.
@@garrettviewegh9028 Kind of disagree. MCU didn't suffer after Endgame because they didn't announce ten years of phases and movies. It suffered because they relied on that 'MCU' factor to do the heavy lifting rather than make the individual films any good.
My Copy Pasta for D2 content till they give us our money spent expansions back:- I joined Destiny 2 when New Light came out and it went free, I liked the game and so I brought all the expansions up till New Light. I love farming and collecting and chasing after loots so I rushed through the missions in order to unlock Raids and get Exotics for collection, all the while thinking that I would just replay missions on my other character later on. Then came Sunsetting, all the loots that I collected gone, EXPANSIONS THAT I PURCHASED gone, every new loot had expire on it (I know it's reverted now, but dmg is done already), all of this just killed my interest in game. I came back in Beyond Light to try and play with new Stasis and I enjoyed it, but I didn't knew Cayde lore before and when I came back, I wanted to play it without rushing, but I literally could not play the thing THAT I PAID FOR! Now tell me what reason do I have to give my money to these devs and buy a game with expire date on it, that too after getting scammed and losing the expansions I spent money on?!
What is a shame is that Bungie has never expanded into other media outside of the game, the one obvious one is physical media like books. I know we have the Lore Books that have been released but we need something more than just reprinted lore tabs from the game.
I gotta be so honest I really wanted our character to die at the end of final shape. Every time I imagined how my characters story would end it was always they’d die fighting the witness and something new would emerge from it. I loved final shape but I can’t lie I was really disappointed we didn’t die in the end
I feel like the best way to get people hyped for weapons in a Destiny 3 would be to remove weapon crafting altogether and instead input the attunement setup from Into the Light with the same kind of shiny roll variants being super rare. That honestly was some of the most grinding I’ve done in the game for years and I would love for that to just be the way it happened going forward cause weapon crafting was cool at first but now I have to itch to grind since I have everything I want.
I stopped playing last Christmas. The day I was considereding booting it up was when the next line of layoffs got announced. Immediately uninterested. The morale issue is massive. And yes, unfortunately, the game can often feel like a second job that you pay for.
sorry to be that random guy, but how is d2 a second job when after WQ bungie started to make the game more and more for casual players outside a small number of activity like gm/dungeons and trials?
I always find weird when people publicly announce they stopped playing because there were layoffs. Does it extend across your entire life? Stopped brushing teeth, Colgate had lay offs, stopped watching Netflix as there were layoffs. Must be tough to get through a day without using products or services from companies that never fire staff.
@@ilredelnulla9837 because by that point, 5 years into playing I was no longer a casual player. The only places left for growth were end game grinds, like getting the last perk on an adept weapon instead of the regular version. Not saying you can't enjoy it without it becoming that way but I saw someone else comment about it and all my IRL friends dropped off years before I did for the same reason.
I like your view point Byf! destiny still has a chance to grow and improve (and bungie albeit its quite unlikely) I love the destiny universe its one of if not my favorite sci-fi worlds hopefully it stays around for a while longer.
The Winnower as a villain would be so incredibly boring & lazy imo. Bungie suggesting world building & other stuff as what theyre going to do sounds more interesting than another buildup to another Darkness villain conflict (Light & Dark saga ended btw), theres more interesting things in this universe than just the Winnower. I dont think we need to constantly build up to another main villain (especially after we just concluded 1 that existed for so long MONTHS ago) to keep things interesting. "The Darkness" as the villain ended with the Witness, let's move onto something NEW
We have xivu to fight, hints at nezarec comeback, whatever the echos will be, there's hints that there may be an disciple that we haven't seen yet. We could even see nezarec trying to revive the witness with the echoes or something like that
I feel like the winnower should definitely be explored more but definitely not the main villian. The whole point of the light and dark saga is that light and dark aren’t good and evil but the things that go against it are. That’s why we as guardians use both in our arsenal. The story should just take us to new planets and newer aliens to meet with more world- or rather UNIVERSE building lore.
They have so many different narrative threads to tug on; Xivu/ retaking Torobatl, the Vex home system, the IX, Nezarec, Eramis, Clovis Bray lives again.....
Looking at how the winnower was the original main villain im not against us fighting it.. In a couple of years. The witness got good with final shape, but everything b4 that screamed redcon and reboot. I hope for the next saga they will finally have a plan and not just go and make up things as they go after they rebooted the story multiple times.
If they do some kind of time skip for D3, I would really, really love if we had a D2.5 where we get to actually rebuild our worlds. I’m not sure how you could make it work mechanically, but I want to slowly rebuild Sol, then work toward retaking the fallen worlds across the universe. Let us play an active role in healing this wound. Then you can jump forward and introduce a new threat.
What breaks my heart, is the fact that a company like Nintendo, notorious for its hard core views on exclusivity and anti emulation and piracy has the heart to take cuts to have employees keep their jobs. When the WiiU flopped as per their projections, instead of firing or laying people off Iwata himself took a 50% cut in his salary. THAT sounds like a “family” not whatever bungie’s executives claim.
I played Destiny 2 around the time Beyond Light launched on Gamepass, and while I enjoyed it I also always felt like I was too late to the party, so if they actually release Destiny 3 and start with a blank slate for new players I genuinely might go back to playing.
Same. I actually loved season of the deep, because I had seen so much about Titan, but I had never gotten to experience it for myself. I think it’s also a testament to how good the game is at its heart, that it’s managed to bring players into a game where so much of the story is no longer accessible.
@@davidbrown95 The only issue I felt Season of the Deep had was how boring Salvage was. It was reused Titan areas and they just didn't do enough to it. Just massive open areas with hardly any enemies. But Deep Dive was fantastic. Instead of Salvage, they should've just brought back Savathun's Song (the strike that you should totally youtube, it was great) Reply
I stared playing back in Beyond Light and anytime I've quit the game I've always looked for new videos from you and every time you haven't disappointed me. You helped me find love in the game even with its problems and I just want to thank you for continuing to make your videos and giving me and others something to enjoy even when Bungie doesn't always deliver; especially now.
ahhhhhhhh Every time i hear anthem i get annoyed. its base was so solid but it was under cooked and so many issues. If those issues were not there they might of had a solid launch.
While you were telling your version of possible time skip gave me the feeling I felt back in d1 lore times. Things so unknown so new so mysterious. I really hope bungie pulls through and create something that gives me and I hope the rest of the community the sense of wonder. That’s what I miss about this game.
“Do you remember what it was like when you were all watching Anthem die the death that it did, do you remember actually wanting to get on and play that game? I think not, and that’s because everything about the Game was screaming at you to keep away from the damn thing.” Actually Byf, it’s because I had not bought it, and felt no reason to buy it because it felt like competition for Destiny I wanted to see gone…now? I feel bad for it. I want Byf to go back and cover the Anthem Lore with care for it. Nobody else will, and People had spent years on something that nobody cared about and nobody looked at, and it deserved better than that. Anthems Lore is actually really interesting and I want someone like Byf documenting it for history.
The only good things about Anthem was the flying and the ability spam you could do. Story: horrible. Enemy encounter and world building: horrible. Sound design in enemy detection: The WORST. A sniper one shotting you from the other side of the world with no audio or visual queues was just stupid. No audio indicator that your fellow player was downed either. Loot: boring and not worth it. The game was a good concept, but it was like they just threw it all in a blender with "Iron Man mech flying" and "Looter shooter" being the only selling points.
D2 used to be my go to chill out game for years, but at sompoint along the way with the removal of old content, all of the FOMO seasons, I felt like I got left behind on the plot of what actually was going on in the game and I was never incentivized to do the homework required to 'catch up' I just moved on to something else with bittersweet feelings in the rear view.
Honestly, the Morale issue is real. I stopped playing shortly before Lightfall, beacuase I just didnt enjoy the game anymore. Me and my dad got tired of paying $100 a year for a game that we just were not getting much enjoyment out of anymore. To some extent, I'm glad I did, beacuase that vacuum of free time led me to finding my now favorite game series, The Legend of Heroes: Trails. I was happy when Final shape was a success, and im sad with the seeming lack of a future cor the game. I hope and pray that bungie can turn it around, that this game will have a future for the players that love it still, even if im not a part of that.
Even call of duty that releases the same game year after year understands that one area you can never fail at is your story… your lore is everything… it creates the universe that your players immerse themselves in… imagine story driven content from a game like assassins creed lacking in gameplay AND lackluster story… the story itself would get people to stop playing before the gameplay.. we’ve seen it so much.
They gave us the witness… made an incredibly tough raid… But did they? As tough as it was day one I don’t feel that the witness was much of a threat in the grand scheme. I’d argue that the story painted the witness to be a conjunction of lost souls that simply defected from the path they were on in search for power… no true essence of evil just lost and forgotten children… While it’s not a game ending plot hole it definitely lacked urgency once we met them face to face. Everything was assisted. No reward for solo activity. No necessity or specific exotic besides the raid weapon that felt like it made sense in the lore of the witness and guardian saga…
I also think they should’ve introduced the traveler as a living being… captured by the witness… living in its pale heart in some vegetable state incapable of defending itself… the pale heart pumping the life force energy necessary to keep the gardeners beliefs and conviction alive through us. And in that moment of despair in the face of defeat the witness should have called out to the winnower who rears its ugly head through an almost ethereal space in the atmosphere and speaks one word that shows its autonomous power… “Enough.” Pausing the witness in its steps as it reaches out to its vicarious voice only to receive silence… becoming the final shape it sought after so desperately. That would’ve shown some REAL POWER in the winnower… while not taking away from the witness… imagine being betrayed by the very truth you sought after? And the guardian becomes the newest to bear witness to the fearsome power of the winnower… the guardian stuck in STASIS the voices slicing and severing the STRANDS of hope… the feeling of the SOLAR system being thrust into the VOID… ARC energy bursting throughout our ghost resonating with pulsing from the pale heart… and with everything making sense the guardian with all its might to fight back and save the ghost a burst of prismatic light explodes and the screen goes white… white noise…. Nothing makes sense… No color, no memory, no power, no ghost, no vanguard… nothing…. 300 years later Byf… “Welcome to the Bray Foundation. Would you like to test your G.uardian H.usk O.perator S.uit for T.ranscendence.” Enter Destiny 3 Bam! 😂😂😂😂 I tried lol
You know what a great move for Bungie to boost morale would be? Hire Byf as narrative director for the next 10 year saga’s story. The community would be stoked to play what he writes!
one problem i see with the d3 topic is: we would just be regrinding the same weapons as bungie is somehow unable to bring new loot to chase. i know that they recently brought some new kinds of weapons with the rocket sidearms, heavy burst hand cannons and the special swords. but to be honest its a bit too few too late.
This is another thing for me as well. Most of the guns in this game just feel same-y. Most guns roll with so many perks that solar scout number 17 feels much the same as solar scout number 5 even if they’re technically different weapons
Your opinions matter very highly to this community Byf. Speaking as someone who has been watching you since the beginning of D1, you have earned the respect of all in this community. The way you convey the stories of the game have fascinated me so much and given me so much knowledge of the game, to the point that within my friend group my friends look to me to answer any lore questions or anything regarding the story. Your words mean more to us than you realize.
A game full of abilities and mechanics go to a game like Warframe with neither? Ha! The player base would never be the same because we play this game for those 2 things
@@ParagonGoetia there’s character ability’s but no nades, melee, or super. That’s what I mean by abilities… I’m 20 nodes from steel path and I’ve done every quest up to jade shadows. Don’t act like you know if I’ve played or not😂 I was just playing last night. I also have logged in for 29 days straight
Bungie is no longer the studio that could do this franchise and a D3 justice. It needs passionate devs who won't let greed destroy the game, who can't be bought or bribed, who put their heart and soul into it, and who can make Destiny what it always had the potential to be. A D3 has to be rebuilt from the ground up. New code, new engine, new server structure, etc. Never removing content must always be the basic principle. To achieve this, the game must be built in such a way that it is easily customizable and expandable. Even the eververse could be so much better. But already purchased cosmetics (armor, ghosts, ships,etc.) must be transferable and available to D3 from the beginning.
Well, consider how many of those devs who were talented and had trained and worked with this engine and these tools no longer work at Bungie, and how hard it's going to be to even get new talent when everyone knows how the culture and layoff cycles work. Bungie of Halo 3 and Reach is dead and gone, and it seems the only people of Destiny's Bungie are the people at the top who ran it into the ground.
You know what would be an interesting take? So for the current season Maya asks us to help her create a new golden age, what if Bungie allows players to choose to either be part of a new final shape or to fight it again, literally turn the community into the new big bad. And somehow have the winnower show itself when we are basically having a war within ourselves.
You’re def onto something. An out there idea I had was to refit Gambit to being a more COD-esque system where you’re randomly put into either a City-aligned Guardian or a Dark Guardian and are fighting each other for control over corrupting Darkness relics. Nothing really changes among each group gameplay wise, unless it’s oriented like a (defend/capture) game mode. But, on a base level, it would change the dialogue and aspects of your HUD. Maybe you’d hear the Witness, Calus, Fikrul, or whatever other enemy faction leader as your guardian would be under their command. Granted, the moment for that has passed since the Witness’ would absolutely have done that (and did do it when Stasis was hot). But nowadays it’s not nearly as chaotic. It’s a shame they never leaned into anything like it at the time because it would have been great to see Gambit have lore relevance, gameplay changes and even new game modes, and maybe even an excuse for rare weapon drops based on the factions leaders.
I don’t think the winnower is a villain, darkness is a neutrino force, and the winnower is the darkness itself, it even says itself it is no mastermind
@@solfighter6447 ngl I don’t believe for a second that the witness and winnower were distinct entities in bungies mind until the last year or two at earliest. they talked before about how they had no idea what they were working toward with the darkness. I very much doubt that this was ever not the case in some way and might still be. If anyone reads tyrannocide and all the other earlier lore about the winnower, sword logic, and bomb logic they will immediately find a wealth of ideas that have never been fully tapped. I think the lore got too big and they didn’t know how to convert it into workable content.
Personally I don't care about it too much. Yes it does suck to deal with, but I have to experience a downwards hill for more than Destiny 2. I am a fair experienced Overwatch player and I hope some who may your videos know enough. I enjoy both games as I please regardless of the current hills them both are going on, but one day at a time.
The problem with a reset is the type of game destiny 2 is told to be. Its being called an mmo and when you put that there its compared to existing titles such as ff14 and WOW. BUNGIE needs to rwork the server infrastructure of the game alllowing more players to exist in a single location, porting D1 and D2 into a singular existance, rework all equipable items to remove fluf and give a reason to use items. I could write a hundred page essay but thats a glimpse of what i believe they should do.
destiny 2 was too much of an outdated game when it released to have been the game they built upon for years. Might as well have kept D1 open and expanded upon because D2 was just a DLC when it launched. If they were going to make a fresh start, which they did, they should have actually upgraded the game to more modern standards and not essentially keep expanding a game that was created on the ps3
I don't care if i loose my stuff. I have over 8k hours of play time in D2 and got almost everything. But as they say. Its the journey and the memories we forge on the way. And nobody can take this from me. So wipe it all clean and let us start anew -together- ;)
@@z-impi8476 Destiny 3 shouldn’t be hard to do. Bungie can do a time skip of 30-50 years. New universe. New guardians. Your guardian is a young man/woman who is attending guardian school and ready to fight the darkness. The guardian arrives at school and is waiting in class when suddenly your D2 guardian (you can only pick one class to transfer to D3) walks in and give a speech about how your whole life is about change. Your D2 guardian will be a mentor to your D3 character sharing stories of crota, oryx, argos, galhran and etc.
Destiny 3 is only a good idea if they get a leadership team AND a dev team thats highly talented Its easy to shit on the 'C-Suit' Its harder to recognize Bungie really wasnt that crunchy of a studio and the devs have had amble time to get shit done. 700+ people at that studio. If things are perpetually wrong, its not just a handful of people to blame ONLY A wipe on peoples progress isnt worth shit if the new game has the same flaws baked into its core loop They need to hit the whiteboard fresh if they want to make a Destiny 3. And that just doesnt sound like something any iteration of bungie is capable of. Its been 10 years and i still dont have the raid i paid for when i got yhe D1Y1 Season Pass. Why would i trust any buzzword riddled 'communication' from anyone whos income is even remotely correlated with the games success???
I would love to play a d3 with that storyline. A solution to the loot problem I think would be for people to pick maybe 50 or so items from D2 that they want (not exotics) then later on in d3 the new main player can go into like a crashed helm and pick up those 50. for new players, it would be 50 or so descent weapons. this would have to be a difficult quest but it could end up working .
Using the marvel example, as a person who got brought into the game nearly 2 months ago by friends. It feels like the Endgame trailer is everywhere, Phase 1 is apparently great but I can't see it for myself because it's all unavailable anywhere, I'm watching Phase 2 with some confusion, and phase 3 I've got to decide if I want to purchase or not. All while behind production there's allegations and maybe Feige culled half the studio to fund his own floating Thanos Throne or something, idk. I just know phase 2 is fun when with friends and feels like I'm missing a lot of significance when looking at narrative things. And there's merch all over for Endgame that looks and sounds cool.
I've always loved the idea of introducing the Gardener and the Winnower playing a chess game. I would love a cutscene of them just talking and playing chess, referencing events that have happened over the 10 year saga. We get glimpses of their motives and ideologies and we get out first character portrait of the two entities that we'll be revolving around in our next story. I just want a conversation, a way to finally put a face to two figures we've been reading about for ages.
I quit after I completed final shape, the only way I see myself coming back is for D3. I still love destiny, I still watch it, it’s just felt meh a long time to me, so maybe I need a break but I haven’t played for over 2 months and feel no need to.
@@lazyvoid7107 you should always listen to the reasons people drop your live service game if you want it to survive. Plugging your ears and going “lalala can’t hear you” won’t fix anything
Couldn't have said any of that better myself. We will wait and see what comes, but Hope can be a powerful thing. Destiny's story proves exactly that. Now to see if one of it's most powerful in-game messages can mirror it's story in real life.
D3 isn't happening. I think Bungie has made that abundantly clear. And even if it was, people act like it'll fix all our problems. It won't. Because the problems stem from bad leadership and poor mismanagement at the company itself. If that isn't fixed first, then it doesn't matter how many new Destinys they make, they're still going to be garbage. Imagine having a broken controller and being unable to play games because of it. Instead of replacing the controller, which is clearly the problem, you instead buy a new game, or a new console entirely and expecting that to somehow fix your issue.
I absolutely second this. We've seen this from D1 to D2's launch. We need better leadership and management if we're hoping for a D3, honestly. Otherwise, we all know what to expect from a new game, given their track record.
“Imagine having a broken controller and being unable to play games because of it. Instead of replacing the controller, which is clearly the problem, you instead buy a new game, or a new console entirely and expecting that to somehow fix your issue.“ Never seen a more perfect way of describing this situation.
@@cantbearpuns7439 Destiny 2 was a nearly complete rewrite of the graphics and game play systems. The reason why D1 had horrible content droughts was because game play iteration time was insanely slow, with overnight builds required to test even minor changes. D2 reduced iteration time to "hours" at launch, which was still terrible -- it took another game play and content system rewrite, and a couple more years before it was reduced to "minutes". D3 could theoretically start with game play systems that already work out of the box, although I assume they would need some kind of graphical upgrades to be competitive visually with newer titles. I think a challenge in the current game is balance and economy -- there's so much existing gear, abilities, and activities. Starting over would simplify that. They also would hopefully not make the mistakes they made on D2 (dual primary, no random rolls), and would start out with a plan to never sunset content, which I think was the beginning of the downslide. Perhaps more procedural content, content reuse, better compression, and the ability to downgrade the size of older activities (say reducing textures), where they are still always playable, but take less space. To reward D2 veterans, perhaps they could carry over seals, and offer rewards (cosmetics, upgrade materials, perhaps early access to a couple new exotics at the end of the first campaign) based on expansions purchased, and triumph or collection scores in the previous game (this could be a way to entice players to keep playing). The only thing carried over from D1 to D2 was character appearance, making no one want to play D1 at the end... Depends on how many resources Sony wants to dump into it, and it's an open question whether they have enough people left to even do it.
ive played since the D1 beta and was a day 1 player launch day on D1. What ruined destiny for me was that D2 at launch wasn't even an upgrade at all it was the same game, characters graphics and enemies ported over from D1. It was a DLC. I've had no interest in starting back up again after quitting D2 a few months from launch. I would have liked to get back in for a fresh start for everyone meaning I wouldn't get back into it unless they made a destiny 3. It's been years and years at this point they could've already done it right this time and actually made a brand new game that was seemingly upgraded rather than release the new game that wasn't an upgrade from the D1 game that was released on the ps3
I’m 600+ comments in now so this may get buried, but as a long time player here’s what I really believe would bring back the audience. Bungies gameplay foundation is absolute S tier. Nobody complains about how the game feels. But the games old now and people move on. 3 things I really believe would support the future of destiny 1) Destiny 3, that refresh will bring in a brand new audience. A massive burden to new players is instantly feeling behind, missing out on weapons and armor from past events etc. While the game is beautiful, it’s starting to show its age. I’d love an updated engine, with NEW quest designs. No more bounty style fetch styles. A complete revamp 2) we want new enemies to shoot, the new race from TFS is a good step, but they still feel very similar. Particularly the psion look alikes. This new enemy that’s been teased? Make him do something that relocates us to another part of the universe. Weather kidnapping the traveler, or opening a massive wormhole next to the earth, or super advanced technology I don’t know I am not a writer. But I would absolutely love more space exploration. A completely different galaxy, we land and we’re greeted with “???” Enemy races for the first few missions until we understand who they are. Make them unique, and extremely different. Even animalistic. 3) a proper developed pvp team. Proper servers, and a plethora of maps that is constantly updated and monitored. No more lobby balancing, SBMM crap in 6s Have your dedicated COMP and QUICKPLAY. COMP rewards cycle in every season and are worth it - Bungie probably knows this, but it requires effort. So they’re ordered to just monetise eververse instead. This is what we need though. Not exactly this, but we need new stuff. New engine, bring on D3.
Saying that we need to die while we have a narrative forming with savathun trying to coach us into becoming a god or an outside force of godlike power like she is trying to do
I’d definitely rather have this than a D3. Warlord medieval destiny that focused solely on our recently collapsed earth would be great. With a last city that’s barely built.
Which is why I loved Halo: ODST. Not a Spartan, but a Marine. Running through a city as it falls to the Covenant. Finding the secret story within the story.
I finally left after all the final shape events concluded and it’s been the best 143 gigabytes I’ve ever Deleted. It’s a massive relief after playing generally since house of wolves d1 and journeying through what was ultimately more disappointments than successes. I really hope more players hang up their boots the way half the company has been evicerated💀 maybe then they’ll gain story writing abilities.
The real problem here is I think a good chunk of us want a Destiny 3 or future for Destiny that will last. Bungie clearly does not want to make Destiny anymore and doesn't want to commit to anything of the sort, it's the only financially viable road forward for them...especially if Marathon fails to take hold. As a diehard destiny fan, I have come to terms that I am okay with either...I loved and still love Bungie's Halo games but genuinely feel that it would have been for the better that the series ended after Reach at this point. I would love Destiny 3...but regardless of whether or not they do or don't want to do it, I think we all just need one thing: A clear decision. Either... they go all in or they let the fanbase know they wish to close the curtains and sundown the series. The thing I hate is, at present, they are probably trying to avoid making more Destiny while trying to avoid telling the fanbase about their wishes to bow out so they can keep making money until we all figure them out. Would love to be proven wrong, but their avoidance to honestly discuss their hesitance/uncertainty is what angers me as a fan.I can only hope that they are just taking their time, instead, to cook up a new long running plot like FF XIV is doing.
It sounds like your own expectations are the source of your frustration. I understand wanting some degree of roadmap but they gave us a one year window then a 2nd year teaser for D2. How much roadmap do you require in order to enjoy what is on offer today? What other live service games give you a 3 year advance notice of content and an iron clad commitment on any future sequels?
@@robf This is such a shitty argument. Bungie DID give us at least a window into their 3 year plan when they talked about Beyond Light, Witch Queen, and Final Shape, even having the names for three years of content was enough to assure players. The problem this time is that they essentially said, "Yep, we're working!" And then have given no real information to the general playerbase about what they should be looking forward to. Not even a name for the next expansion. So while what's on offer today may be fun and rewarding, we need a REASON to believe that the effort we spend today will have some kind of payoff in 6 months, or a year, or three years because we need to trust that Bungie is cooking and we're not wasting our time on a game that will be dead soon. And given how low morale is, we need it immediately. Cross said it, we've had our Endgame, Bungie NEEDS to tell people what's next because right now there's nothing but a promise.
@Enzar17 If having a 3 year road map is a personal prerequisite to enjoying playing rather than 2 years that's your choice. You really only need to pay for content that's actually delivered and any good. There was always only ever a promise regardless of how many expansion logos were displayed. I think the more shitty argument is not enjoying a film you're watching because you don't know what the 3rd year of sequels will be and when. It's a Marvel MCU mentality that didn't work after Endgame not because they hadn't announced a decades worth of films after but because the films that followed weren't any good.
Couldn’t agree more about current story beats, I’m also glad that some of these were teased last year, gives me some hope with some of the hints recently.
As someone who does work in games, anytime a studio says "we're family" it is a huge red flag. Those same companies will cut you at the first chance they can just to save a few dollars.
They’ll be like Olive Garden you’re family but your ass better pay 😂
That pretty much goes for any company.
Sad that it's just become a slogan to say when those companies are the reasons actual "We're family here" companies got ran out of business
The classic “We care about you“ while they wear black dresses, hoods as they hold scythes
i worked in IT for a hospital and they fired me because of illness, we live in a fucked up world
I think one of the biggest mistake from Bungie was capitalizing so much on FOMO, Fear Of Missing Out.
There's no interest in new players picking up the game because they'll never get to enjoy the experiences that Bungie have sunset. I haven't played in years because everytime I reinstall the game, there's so much stories and missions that I didn't get to enjoy that I can't connect to what's currently going on and I quickly get frustrated and just stop playing again.
The seasonal stories being gutted from the game each year is one of the most baffling decisions I’ve ever seen in any game in my entire life and it’s one of the main things that keeps me from truly investing in Destiny. Destiny’s seasonal model is the absolute worst thing I’ve ever seen in an mmo
My experience "playing" Destiny has pretty much devolved to logging in every once in a blue moon to shoot Dregs at EDZ for 10 minutes then signing out...
I still follow the lore though...
@@Nan0Cell there came a point where there was just too many expansions, way too much money had to be invested into the game to catch up. It was ridiculous, even more ridiculous that they later sell the expansions for chump change
At this point I watch people talk about destiny more than I actually play it lmao
been that way for months now and its 95% just Byf
Same
Same. I dropped the game right before Lightfall, but I keep watching the youtubers I did before cuase I want to support them.
homie, same at this point lol
@@ultimateblade3767Lightfall sucked but TFS was pretty good
Byf you somewhat touched on it with morale, but I think you forgot a fourth major issue: the game is incredible unfriendly and confusing to new players. The "New Light" experience is bad, and that's compounded by the vaulting of major storyline content that would provide any new players with actual investment and context for the overarching Destiny story. This is probably the main issue the game hasn't been profitable. You can't sustain a 10-year game by just hoping that people who played it 10 years ago are going to stick with it. Sure, Destiny 3 could "solve" this issue temporarily while everyone starts off on a level playing field, but the issue would remain long-term if Bungie doesn't design narrative content that a new player can experience start to finish to build investment in the world and story - like virtually every other online RPG out there. Of course, I realize that solving this problem is tied to leadership being replaced, as actual developers, designers, etc have been complaining about the new player experience for years, but it's fallen on deaf ears.
@@mrsmi1ey Agreed. This is far more important factor than a lot of other issues. There needs to be a real fix to onboarding, I don’t know how, but there needs to be an experience for new players letting them enjoy the last ten years of content whilst having the highlights of past seasons. What’s the point of launching mobile games and trying to attract younger players if the current experiences alienate so many.
@@robf Yeah. If Bungie didn't remove content, The Red War is the best place to start, and it'd be an amazing leeway to the rest of the content in the game.
@@mrsmi1ey Absolutely a consistent problem with D2. It’s an incredibly incoherent design to the onboarding process that’s almost hostile to a new player. I shouldn’t have to Sherpa friends through the content just so they can figure it out. Add on top of that either confusing or cost prohibitive content model.
It’s not surprising that each expansion has either sold similar or less than the time before from a certain point. No real growth.
Hence the need for a reboot D3
@@JROCC0625 hell no, put the IP to bed.
“Beware of over-delivery” - will haunt Bungie for the rest of their days.
As it should, what an absolute dumb statement to your paying customers.
There's something called the Kano Model, that details satisfiers, dissatisfiers and delighters with a given service or product. Satisfiers are when you get exactly what you expect and your opinion doesn't change, dissatisfiers are self explanatory, and delighters are when you're pleasantly surprised by something that goes above and beyond. I'd say the only delighters in D2s history were Forsaken and Final Shape, and they're surrounded by years and years of very predictable satisfiers and a few expansions that have been huge dissatisfiers.
It sucks, but I think Bungie just isn't capable of another delighter after layoffs and the non-stop battle against a very difficult engine.
@@UniqueTechnique29 Tbf it was not direct to us but to other studios and developers
The rest of their day’s what?
@@ZHibiki Nothing fair about it. It's a dumb strategy no matter how you cut it.
The disgusting thing is that employees who are "more expendable" are almost always those who directly contributed to the success of the product. The "valuable" executive almost always does not *do* anything, does not *create* anything, and barely understands what happens in the trenches (so to speak). These executives are often like the dreaded ringknocker whose only claim to competence is that they are wearing an officer's dress uniform.
yup the people that were
fired did everything, and the people still there do nothing
What’s more frustrating about what you just said is that these do nothings are the obstacle to the actual devs who want to fix things. They literally stand in the way and when a dlc doesn’t make enough money because players are upset things were not fixed. The dev looses their job. It’s not right at all and I’m getting pissed all over again.
@@richardcobbs8603 how do you know?
@@annekristiina7503 it was sarcasm, get with the program
Sony taking over Destiny may not be all doom and gloom. This may be nonsense, but Leaks have claimed that Sony wants Destiny to be their Star Wars and “nurture” it into a big franchise, as they apparently consider it “Lightning in a Bottle” This actually would explain why Sony gave Bungie Billions. Their negotiations was probably something like “You want more Franchising for Destiny? A TV Show? Novels? Maybe a Movie? Spin-off games? We can do all that, on the condition that you give us the funds to make them ourselves, and we remain internally independent.” Sony gave them all of this and Bungie failed to hold up their end of the bargain, so now Sonys thinking “Fine, I’ll do it myself…”
It might be nonsense, but I really hope it’s true
These quotes are a year old, my friend, and corporations move quickly. They don't feel like Destiny is special anymore. Sony just wants their $3.6 billion dollars worth. They absorbed project Gummy Bears and they're fixing to absorb more of Bungie if Marathon isn't a blockbuster hit.
If Sony has to cut Destiny off, they will. Then they will reinvest Bungie's skeleton towards whatever other venture for profit, to make themselves useful.
The executives at Bungie have got to go before its too late to save the franchise.
I hate to think about to think about corporations as anything more than that, but god having to face the lesser of two evils and the greater of two corporations? It feels bad
Sony's main priority. Removal fo Pete Parsons because that man is a walking liability to Bungie.
Him misappropriating the funds for... cars... is evident enough
Considering the current state of Star Wars, Sony making comparisons to that franchise worries me greatly.
38:00 I would love a fresh start. I wouldn't mind losing all my loot and things I've grinded for. Almost 5700 hours into the game. What a decade it has been. But again I'd like a blank canvas to paint on again :)
yes, more cashgrab. i love it
@@richardcobbs8603 A Destiny 3 would be the opposite of a cash grab for Bungie.
@EthanHopper-mp5ef yeah. Of they dont add ever verse and tons of new things to buy . Sure. Also. There will never be a d3.
@@richardcobbs8603 We shall see.
I have never seen a company go from "It's Over" to "We're so back" so fast, so many times and more importantly convince their fanbase every single time it happens that THIS is the new status quo, besides bungie
For real, when we all beat the final shape at launch I was so sure this was only the beginning of the story since I have access to their 4D construct of time.
But then the community said it wasn’t gunna happen and so I stopped caring.
Whether I experience vicariously via 2D media or directly via 3D reality is inconsequential to me so long as I get to experience since the point of ones existence is to choose their experiences.
All I truly know is that the ball is now in your guy’s courts. You will all make decisions, you will all consent to different things. Some realities throughout this multiverse will have the game, others won’t. All that matters is what 3D moments we choose to stitch together via this 4D construct of time. And maybe it’s time to focus on the world as a whole so we leave something behind when we dip and move on to other constructs of time.
@@TheGreyShaman what
@@giran4914 basically 2D media is a way for higher dimensional crap to show themselves to us in a form we can comprehend.
For example, before we ever had fandoms for movies, tv shows and video games, we had religions for books
@@TheGreyShamanyou my friend appear to be “lost in the sauce”.
@@lokinslawomir0793 hell yeah, I would have it no other way.
Gotta be in the thick of it or else I may as well have untethered from my vessel all those years ago and just moved on letting those things have their way with you guys through my vessel since I would no longer be there as an NPC in between mind and body to dictate which scripts/thoughts get to become reality.
Thanks💘 You didn't just hit the nail on the head, you drove it through the stud with a 10lb sledgehammer. You reached into my brain and spoke all of my hopes AND misgivings.
I'll be sure to share this video everywhere I go.
@@CaptainCanuck68 mega lobotomy
2 dungeons for 20 bucks is still complete bs. Especially when u put entire exapansions on sale for like 10 bucks and the dungeons stay at 20
Got my friends to download that free expansion pack on PlayStation and there’s three of us total. So I was like “let’s do a dungeon they’re super chill and fun”… you still need a fucking dungeon key while you have the expansion.
I had that same thing happen. A newcomer friend of mine never returned to the game after hitting that paywall :(
Dungeons being removed from expansions and paywalled is what’s complete bs. Jesus Christ.
Yeah this paywall left a bad taste in my mouth early on. I continued for another year or so, but every time I saw those dungeons on my map, I got a little angry.
40:08 The idea of playing as other races in a sequel sounds great. Knowing that not all hive follow one of the sisters and are free to choose for themselves makes me wonder if a 300 year time skip would bring hive to the Vanguard. If Luzaku didnt exist i wouldn't even consider it.
Talking about the movement in Warframe reminds me how most of us wanted them to expand on the factions, make them more relevant, incorporate them in the narrative, etc... and Bungie's response was to remove factions.
Warframe's dev cycle has problems of its own. I quit around Railjack/Kuva Liches because they had been so overpromised and came out underdelivering so hard that I could not get any more enthusiasm to play the game. I've recently picked the game back up but I'm making a point not to watch the devstreams or tennocon simply because DE will lie to my face about upcoming features and I cannot take that emotional rollercoaster of hype and disappointment again.
@@VallornDeathblade The absolute train wreck that Empyrean & Railjack were - having the content delivered in haphazard, barely cohesive & barely functional parts - made me extremely weary of anything major DE would announce going forward. They _may_ have learned a little bit over the years considering that Tennocon 2024 is centred and focused on showing off _1_ major update than the handful they tried to hype the community up with years back, but with the reception I'm seeing of 'The Lotus Eaters'... ye, still treading lightly with that game.
@@OfficialR3M1X Railjack was made worse by being launched right before the entire studio went on Christmas break. So we went for nearly 2 months without a single hotfix while the brand new mode languished in that broken state.
well lotus eaters was only received poorly becuase they said its was a "short quest" instead of a "prologue" which they then apologized for. Thats not great but its a pretty minor mistake. The quest itself was fine when taken as a prologue to 1999.
Having played both, they have some of the same problems as far as content speed goes. Enjoy it while it's fresh, because you'll hit a wall where you can't do much else beyond grinding mastery rank.
As a D1 year 1 veteran, I'm all in for a fresh start. I have actually thought about a time skip with our player dead or lost and starting fresh as a new character. I think it would be great to experience new Destiny magic again. As for anyone complaining about their gear, it is a looter game. The grind is part of the fun. I'd gladly give up my gear and power for a fresh start with new graphics, gameplay, and secrets.
Honestly I agree. I’m a year 1 D1 player, I practically grew up with this game. I think D2 is too cluttered and messed up. If I were bundle I’d dedicate the remaining content to wrapping things up and introducing a new ‘saga’ then move things over to a third game. Completely different story, different ideas, different content model (which is really important because imo the current content model is actively killing the franchise).
They need to take their time, give us actual endgame content and make a good story (which we literally know they CAN do). And above all they need prove they aren’t greedy and that they actually respect the player base. There’s a lot of trust to earn back but I do think there is a large group of players who would be willing to give the game a fresh start and a second chance.
DESTINY1 was the best for me it was more simple
Leadership is so out of touch they believe Marathon will be even bigger than Destiny and we'll just all flock to it.
exactly...
not a chance
I hope marathon flops... so they'll learn.
@@SamStraker If marathon flops they won't learn - they'll just be gone. If Marathon is successful they might actually have the financial breathing room they need to make D3.
It’s going to be Concord 2.
Byf, I love your Destiny 3 ideas. Just listening to and picturing it make me get emotional about what it feels like we're missing. I miss feeling like im completely in over my head with lore, that there's a massive untapped world here. I want that game, that fresh start more than anything.
Bungie's principal mistake was all the incubation projects.
They got too confident that D2 was in a stable spot or *expected* to be stable with TFS and started spreading people and resources to other projects.
Destiny is not only their Flagship IP, it's their *only* IP. Nobody is looking at Marathon right now.
If their flagship can't consistently stay afloat, any other projects will sink.
And now they've turned Marathon into a hero shooter, so 99% chance that's gonna get Concord-ed because nobody is interested in that genre anymore. Bungie doesn't just need to cook. They need to magically come up with a 5 star meal to get Destiny and the community back on their feet, and they need to go back to the drawing board with 1 other project to diversify their finances. But first, they need to rid themselves of Pete, and I think Sony is gonna have to do that themselves.
@Enzar17 Straight facts. I was maybe interested in a extraction shooter, but another hero shooter? In this economy?! Marathon was such a bad idea in so many ways, and in such a horrible genre to experiment in.
@@motherbeanmtb6473 hopefully Marathon flopping will get Sony interested in investing back into Destiny (yk, the game that people actually like) and not just scrapping bungie essentially. But that’s a lot to ask of heartless corporate greed
The "Leaders & executives" were too confident and how the developers under them and the players who consume the content, have all paid the price for that over confidence
I think this is exactly WHY they decided to make those incubation projects in the first place. It’s the idea of don’t shoot your magic goose while it’s still laying golden eggs, they tried to branch out knowing eventually Destiny would start to dry up. What I don’t think they expected was NONE of the incubation projects would come to fruition, they’d have a financial drop off from Lightfall, AND Marathon would get delayed as much as it has.
They were trying to create extra stability for the studio so it didn’t have to rely on the rocky foundations of Destiny, but nothing ended up happening so they just wasted a bunch of money that was meant to be helping them. It’s like the biggest stroke of bad luck ever.
on the topic of transmog. i saw a post of a d2 player moving to ffxiv who was absolutely baffled by how open the glamor system was compared to d2. no paying for material to unlock transmog pieces outside if 5 per season. just one big box where you can put 800 pieces of gear to glam to your hearts content.
Destiny 3 would be worth it to reduce the tech debt alone - which they've cited as the reason for removing entire expansions before. Being able to make new content on a foundation unburdened by the last 7 years of experimentation holding it down would make the workload easier, the content better, and the future more stable. Unfortunately, "we're making a sequel to reduce the tech debt" doesn't sit well with the lowest common denominator of people playing the game, nor does it speak to shareholders. I truly worry Destiny is gonna be in a permanent limbo of suffering under its own weight until a new fresh entry is made, which feels unlikely for hopefully obvious reasons.
This is my number one reason for a D3. It’s almost not even about improving the gameplay - D2 was never meant to survive this long and its original architecture does not fit a perpetual live-service model. It’s clunky and meant for a game designed as a box-title release. A D3 is needed in order to create a path for more modular, long-term development in a way that D2 is incapable of doing.
That and the core gameplay model for Destiny, frankly, needs a refresh badly. The game feels too much like a job, and I think most of the community is tired of it.
Would it be worth losing the many players who won’t buy D3? No it wouldn’t
The one thing I think about when people mention d3 is the amount of people constantly complaining a while back about them bringing back d1 exotics. Can't wait to go through that again x2
@@markricheard1870 Brother, we're already losing those players *right now.* Open your eyes.
@@ShaoShaoMienshao and would d3 (assuming a complete reset) fix that? it'd make it worse if nothing else
for the first time in around a year, i loaded into an empty tower. i just sat there for a while. i can’t believe its come to this
3:26 Byf talking about Space Marine 2: “You have My Attention.”
Cannot wait for that game man.
Same
I'm super excited for this. lol
@@oxsilasame here, battle brother
god i hope byf never makes d2 content
ever again
To me, Destiny is just held back so much by the structure it's built on that it will never reach its full potential as an IP on Destiny 2.
D2 at launch was essentially a DLC to D1 copy and pasted everything from the previous game over. Made no noticeable upgrades or additions. keep in mind it was a game that was created on the ps3 consoles. Should've never been the game that was built upon for years and years. Should've been a fresh start D3 somewhere in the 2020s with it actually being upgraded heavily, new engine new characters- abilities enemies and all that and only then should it had been the game that was sustained for years and years
With the Helm as our one-stop shop for a lot of the seasons and now the Episodes as a base, and with the Failsafe system hooked into the ship, I do wonder if there’s an idea on the team to fly us outside of the system of Sol and move the story from a home we defend to an enemy we’re hunting down to stop on their home turf.
I'm pretty sure this is what Frontiers is going to be. We leave Sol, if we end up chasing a baddie that would honestly be pretty sick.
What about helping the Cabal reclaim Torobatl?
@@acgearsandarms1343 oooooooooooo this would be really awesome!
Can we finally have that Arknights collab?
That would work
Can’t wait for Cross’ 2 hour reaction video of this.
I rlly don't want this game to die, ive spent so much time and I'm hopeful for the future but if things don't turn out I'm okay with that too
@@davethewave8590 I feel your pain. I’ve spent so much time and I love universe of Destiny…but what happens is tough to watch.
@@Saizmatters it's rough but it's almost bittersweet like ive been invested and playing the last 10 years and everything feels summed up unfortunately
It’s not. Y’all are just dramatic
Tbh if Destiny does die, I'm happy we got to experience the banger ending with Final Shape
I hear you, I’ve stopped playing and I can go as far to say that some of overall love of gaming has died with Destiny. I’m having a hard time investing my time in another game at the moment. Maybe it’s the gaming market in general or possibly I feel like I just can’t invest the same time I did in Destiny for it too just fall off the cliff like Destiny did.
WoW is still popping off after 20years so Bungie can do it but it looks like they don't see the value in Destiny. Warframe after 10 years still going very strong. Bungie has no one to blame but themselves. Destiny 3 wont make a difference, bungie will find themselves in this exact same spot in the future. There is no WoW 2 or Warframe 2...
IMAGINE if Lightfall shipped with the final shape and we got one massive cohesive ending all at once.
With or without the queer stories? Take all that out and you have a game that appeals to the original player base that helped make the game the success it was.
@jameskarl424 what is bro yapping about
@@KingBreadSlicefr what is bro yapping about LOL😭
@@KingBreadSliceProbably osiris and saint glazing eachother in every dialogue they're in nowadays and the current villain being gay too. The plot of this episode is basically gay couple vs abusive lesbian.
@@evanarmstrong6717Probably osiris and saint glazing eachother in every dialogue they're in nowadays and the current villain being gay too. The plot of this episode is basically gay couple vs abusive lesbian.
I absolutely LOVE the lore of this game, owning all of the grimoire books. But recent events have just forced me out into other games like Final Fantasy and NieR for expansive stories. They need to treat the company like a house. Remove the rotten timbers and replace them with those unaffected by rot. I don't have much faith in this game as of this moment. And it hurts.
I really miss been excited about Destiny. This game was so special and unique back when I start playing (Taken King) but now; not only its very outdated, but also I don't have the emotional energy to deal with the bullshit. I still love the community and hope to meet them again in another game, Destiny 3 or not.
Fr. Destiny forced the fps genre forward with good movement and shooting.
The thing that made it stand out so much has become industry standard, it isnt a selling point
The biggest reason to not play Destiny is drama cycle that the execs do not seem to be aware of or care about.
community is the worst part tho lmao
@@richardcobbs8603 i really don't get this, every time i played with LFG or something involving teamwork in destiny i always had a great time with randoms. i get that there are some ppl that are dicks but that doesn't mean you should base you're opinion on a smaller player base.
I think the lack of innovation in the game is to blame. The last new thing they did was onslaught which coincidentally is the best thing they’ve done in forever. Before that the only really different thing they included was gambit which was so many years ago.
TFA had some excellent experimentation. Dual Destiny was a great concept executed well, and Cooperative story missions could have used some more time to cook (Bringing back Berserkers was... a choice) but the idea gave a fresh experience to replaying campaign missions. Then you have Salvation's Edge and Verity which is unlike any other raid encounter we've ever seen.
The main issue is this just didn't continue, Episode One just ended up being a stretched out season with big holes of nothing happening in the middle of the story making Destiny's usual narrative problem of "hurry up so you can wait" feel even worse than normal.
It's a very one step forwards, three steps back situation right now.
Bait
It’s funny now he said “your dead in the water” as he messed his jump up and died in the lake of fluid. 21:57
D3 is long overdue.
They only listened to the raid community… what about the guys that liked sparrow racing?
@@historyandpoliticsexplaine4876 bingo
That’s also my opinion. Bungie listened to hardcore streamers pro raiders with multiple day 1 raid belts and made the difficulty FOR that very very small group.
It would be fine to add many difficulty options and modes, but Bungie started to implement that into everything, into the strike playlist even, in seasonal activities etc etc
It has pushed myself and my casual friends away. We just liked shooting aliens after work. Not hours of wipes and failures on comms calling out complex Symbols.
I am actually hoping Destiny Rising is what I want to play, since D2 is no longer FUN for me and buddies. Maybe Rising will be the chill fast FUN gameplay and just turn the brain off and shoot things with friends game.
Man the way you described Destiny 3 made me sad to think that we'll never get it😢
Hearing the phrase "whose jobs are more expendable" about people who actually do the job upsets me. Upper management is more expendable. Grunt workers are invaluable. This dialog needs to change. I'm sick of hearing it.
@@RobbieBise whether we like it or not, it's far easier to hirer a dev then a CEO or other upper management; this, more expendable. We may not like it, but that's how that works.
Imagine wanting your rowboat to go faster, so you throw your crew overboard to cut down the weight. That's how modern industries are run.
tbh when byf said it i interpretted it as sarcastic as thats how the upper management sees it and that its part of the problem
as a person who has been in board meetings, I would say Byf's take about their attitude would make Bungie execs laugh out loud...no experience in this industry but to say they don't care what employees think or feel is an understatement, they will say whatever it takes to get you back to work
Time skip would definitely add some freshness to the world. New characters, new cities, new environments. On the flip side, explanations to what happened to our favorite characters.
Love this idea Byf.
Destiny 3 shouldn’t be hard to do. Bungie can do a time skip of 30-50 years. New universe. New guardians. Your guardian is a young man/woman who is attending guardian school and ready to fight the darkness. The guardian arrives at school and is waiting in class when suddenly your D2 guardian (you can only pick one class to transfer to D3) walks in and give a speech about how your whole life is about change. Your D2 guardian will be a mentor to your D3 character sharing stories of crota, oryx, argos, galhran and etc.
No matter the case, we'll be here to listen to the lore daddy
💀
💀
The Warframe analogy at 22:50 is something I've used to explain the huge issue with the developers of Helldivers 2 and the decisions they've made on the game post-launch.
If they made Warframe, the game would almost certainly no longer be around.
If we ever get a Destiny 3, I want an ENTIRELY new enemy faction: No Taken zombies, no splinter faction Red Legion, no unknown underling War Beasts, no mutated freak Dread: Something that is 100% alien to us and we have to work out from the ground up.
1 new faction is not enough. We need at least 2, not to mention a HUGE ai upgrade for the current factions.
You know damn well that ain’t gonna happen. Theres no ifs
considering the general age of the playerbase..... we are not getting a d3 that will have a sustainable playerbase.
@@novusparadium9430 player age is older because kids can’t afford 60$ every year
100 percent!!! Byf, this analysis of past problems, and great suggestion for a path forward, are spot-on. I’m totally ready and hopeful for Destiny 3.
Some players compared Final Shape, to Destiny’s “Endgame”. I fear the franchise may encounter the same problem the MCU is: after its big saga that kept its community invested ended, everything after, if too bland, will feel boring/lackluster. Many general audiences have left the MCU behind. Many fans have also left. What Destiny needs, is a big story, and soon. Something to emphasize this new chapter. A big narrative event that gets alarm ringing.
It's not just that the main story arc ended, it's that everything that followed was also dog water. How can anyone remain invested in the mcu when the only film that treated the franchise with any reverence was no way home? The Episodes face the same problem, and given that at the moment it seems like they're "Seasons -1", many aren't optimistic.
@@garrettviewegh9028 Kind of disagree. MCU didn't suffer after Endgame because they didn't announce ten years of phases and movies. It suffered because they relied on that 'MCU' factor to do the heavy lifting rather than make the individual films any good.
@@Zant5976yep. Poorly drip fed subpar story extended artificially with mandatory challenge content. Echoes is such a fucking disppointment
My Copy Pasta for D2 content till they give us our money spent expansions back:-
I joined Destiny 2 when New Light came out and it went free, I liked the game and so I brought all the expansions up till New Light. I love farming and collecting and chasing after loots so I rushed through the missions in order to unlock Raids and get Exotics for collection, all the while thinking that I would just replay missions on my other character later on.
Then came Sunsetting, all the loots that I collected gone, EXPANSIONS THAT I PURCHASED gone, every new loot had expire on it (I know it's reverted now, but dmg is done already), all of this just killed my interest in game.
I came back in Beyond Light to try and play with new Stasis and I enjoyed it, but I didn't knew Cayde lore before and when I came back, I wanted to play it without rushing, but I literally could not play the thing THAT I PAID FOR!
Now tell me what reason do I have to give my money to these devs and buy a game with expire date on it, that too after getting scammed and losing the expansions I spent money on?!
What is a shame is that Bungie has never expanded into other media outside of the game, the one obvious one is physical media like books. I know we have the Lore Books that have been released but we need something more than just reprinted lore tabs from the game.
well if a stidio decided to do something not (straight out of the game) it will be shit for not being part of the game
I gotta be so honest I really wanted our character to die at the end of final shape. Every time I imagined how my characters story would end it was always they’d die fighting the witness and something new would emerge from it. I loved final shape but I can’t lie I was really disappointed we didn’t die in the end
That's called ending the destiny franchise at the end of the first saga
I feel like the best way to get people hyped for weapons in a Destiny 3 would be to remove weapon crafting altogether and instead input the attunement setup from Into the Light with the same kind of shiny roll variants being super rare. That honestly was some of the most grinding I’ve done in the game for years and I would love for that to just be the way it happened going forward cause weapon crafting was cool at first but now I have to itch to grind since I have everything I want.
Didn’t they already confess destiny 3 hasn’t even been in development?
Poor executive management will ruin a company faster than a bad game ever would
A 300 year time skip could see ahamkara roaming wild from rivens eggs
I stopped playing last Christmas. The day I was considereding booting it up was when the next line of layoffs got announced. Immediately uninterested. The morale issue is massive. And yes, unfortunately, the game can often feel like a second job that you pay for.
sorry to be that random guy, but how is d2 a second job when after WQ bungie started to make the game more and more for casual players outside a small number of activity like gm/dungeons and trials?
I always find weird when people publicly announce they stopped playing because there were layoffs. Does it extend across your entire life? Stopped brushing teeth, Colgate had lay offs, stopped watching Netflix as there were layoffs. Must be tough to get through a day without using products or services from companies that never fire staff.
@@robfHaha, for real man so many gamers are so dumb. Keep it original & how it should be. Play bc you enjoy it, nothin else matters.
@@ilredelnulla9837 because by that point, 5 years into playing I was no longer a casual player. The only places left for growth were end game grinds, like getting the last perk on an adept weapon instead of the regular version. Not saying you can't enjoy it without it becoming that way but I saw someone else comment about it and all my IRL friends dropped off years before I did for the same reason.
@@robf the virtue signaling is more important to them than the enjoyment of the game.
I like your view point Byf! destiny still has a chance to grow and improve (and bungie albeit its quite unlikely) I love the destiny universe its one of if not my favorite sci-fi worlds hopefully it stays around for a while longer.
The Winnower as a villain would be so incredibly boring & lazy imo. Bungie suggesting world building & other stuff as what theyre going to do sounds more interesting than another buildup to another Darkness villain conflict (Light & Dark saga ended btw), theres more interesting things in this universe than just the Winnower. I dont think we need to constantly build up to another main villain (especially after we just concluded 1 that existed for so long MONTHS ago) to keep things interesting. "The Darkness" as the villain ended with the Witness, let's move onto something NEW
Travelling to fight xivu would probably be the best main story hop between new alien planets
We have xivu to fight, hints at nezarec comeback, whatever the echos will be, there's hints that there may be an disciple that we haven't seen yet. We could even see nezarec trying to revive the witness with the echoes or something like that
I feel like the winnower should definitely be explored more but definitely not the main villian. The whole point of the light and dark saga is that light and dark aren’t good and evil but the things that go against it are. That’s why we as guardians use both in our arsenal. The story should just take us to new planets and newer aliens to meet with more world- or rather UNIVERSE building lore.
They have so many different narrative threads to tug on; Xivu/ retaking Torobatl, the Vex home system, the IX, Nezarec, Eramis, Clovis Bray lives again.....
Looking at how the winnower was the original main villain im not against us fighting it.. In a couple of years. The witness got good with final shape, but everything b4 that screamed redcon and reboot. I hope for the next saga they will finally have a plan and not just go and make up things as they go after they rebooted the story multiple times.
If they do some kind of time skip for D3, I would really, really love if we had a D2.5 where we get to actually rebuild our worlds. I’m not sure how you could make it work mechanically, but I want to slowly rebuild Sol, then work toward retaking the fallen worlds across the universe. Let us play an active role in healing this wound. Then you can jump forward and introduce a new threat.
The David Attenborough of Destiny.
Destiny has so much potential, and yet it keeps getting squandered by bone-headed and short-sighted decisions.
The final shape was a straw. And it's the one that broke the camels back.
You wish it didn't failed kid
What breaks my heart, is the fact that a company like Nintendo, notorious for its hard core views on exclusivity and anti emulation and piracy has the heart to take cuts to have employees keep their jobs.
When the WiiU flopped as per their projections, instead of firing or laying people off Iwata himself took a 50% cut in his salary. THAT sounds like a “family” not whatever bungie’s executives claim.
I played Destiny 2 around the time Beyond Light launched on Gamepass, and while I enjoyed it I also always felt like I was too late to the party, so if they actually release Destiny 3 and start with a blank slate for new players I genuinely might go back to playing.
Same. I actually loved season of the deep, because I had seen so much about Titan, but I had never gotten to experience it for myself.
I think it’s also a testament to how good the game is at its heart, that it’s managed to bring players into a game where so much of the story is no longer accessible.
@@davidbrown95 The only issue I felt Season of the Deep had was how boring Salvage was. It was reused Titan areas and they just didn't do enough to it. Just massive open areas with hardly any enemies. But Deep Dive was fantastic. Instead of Salvage, they should've just brought back Savathun's Song (the strike that you should totally youtube, it was great)
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I stared playing back in Beyond Light and anytime I've quit the game I've always looked for new videos from you and every time you haven't disappointed me. You helped me find love in the game even with its problems and I just want to thank you for continuing to make your videos and giving me and others something to enjoy even when Bungie doesn't always deliver; especially now.
Don’t give me hope Byf 😔
We’re probably going to see Xivu Arath in the flesh sometime in the future. The credit images showed her reaching for Will Breaker
22:00 “dead in the water” nice
Instead of subclasses, picking Humanoid, Cabal, or Eliksni would be pretty slick. That would probably pull me back
ahhhhhhhh Every time i hear anthem i get annoyed. its base was so solid but it was under cooked and so many issues. If those issues were not there they might of had a solid launch.
While you were telling your version of possible time skip gave me the feeling I felt back in d1 lore times. Things so unknown so new so mysterious. I really hope bungie pulls through and create something that gives me and I hope the rest of the community the sense of wonder. That’s what I miss about this game.
“Do you remember what it was like when you were all watching Anthem die the death that it did, do you remember actually wanting to get on and play that game? I think not, and that’s because everything about the Game was screaming at you to keep away from the damn thing.”
Actually Byf, it’s because I had not bought it, and felt no reason to buy it because it felt like competition for Destiny I wanted to see gone…now? I feel bad for it. I want Byf to go back and cover the Anthem Lore with care for it. Nobody else will, and People had spent years on something that nobody cared about and nobody looked at, and it deserved better than that. Anthems Lore is actually really interesting and I want someone like Byf documenting it for history.
@@markricheard1870 why dont you
The only good things about Anthem was the flying and the ability spam you could do. Story: horrible. Enemy encounter and world building: horrible. Sound design in enemy detection: The WORST. A sniper one shotting you from the other side of the world with no audio or visual queues was just stupid. No audio indicator that your fellow player was downed either. Loot: boring and not worth it.
The game was a good concept, but it was like they just threw it all in a blender with "Iron Man mech flying" and "Looter shooter" being the only selling points.
@@harperion2492 The person said LORE. Learn to read.
D2 used to be my go to chill out game for years, but at sompoint along the way with the removal of old content, all of the FOMO seasons, I felt like I got left behind on the plot of what actually was going on in the game and I was never incentivized to do the homework required to 'catch up' I just moved on to something else with bittersweet feelings in the rear view.
Honestly, the Morale issue is real. I stopped playing shortly before Lightfall, beacuase I just didnt enjoy the game anymore. Me and my dad got tired of paying $100 a year for a game that we just were not getting much enjoyment out of anymore. To some extent, I'm glad I did, beacuase that vacuum of free time led me to finding my now favorite game series, The Legend of Heroes: Trails. I was happy when Final shape was a success, and im sad with the seeming lack of a future cor the game. I hope and pray that bungie can turn it around, that this game will have a future for the players that love it still, even if im not a part of that.
Even call of duty that releases the same game year after year understands that one area you can never fail at is your story… your lore is everything… it creates the universe that your players immerse themselves in… imagine story driven content from a game like assassins creed lacking in gameplay AND lackluster story… the story itself would get people to stop playing before the gameplay.. we’ve seen it so much.
They gave us the witness… made an incredibly tough raid…
But did they? As tough as it was day one I don’t feel that the witness was much of a threat in the grand scheme. I’d argue that the story painted the witness to be a conjunction of lost souls that simply defected from the path they were on in search for power… no true essence of evil just lost and forgotten children…
While it’s not a game ending plot hole it definitely lacked urgency once we met them face to face. Everything was assisted. No reward for solo activity. No necessity or specific exotic besides the raid weapon that felt like it made sense in the lore of the witness and guardian saga…
I also think they should’ve introduced the traveler as a living being… captured by the witness… living in its pale heart in some vegetable state incapable of defending itself… the pale heart pumping the life force energy necessary to keep the gardeners beliefs and conviction alive through us. And in that moment of despair in the face of defeat the witness should have called out to the winnower who rears its ugly head through an almost ethereal space in the atmosphere and speaks one word that shows its autonomous power… “Enough.” Pausing the witness in its steps as it reaches out to its vicarious voice only to receive silence… becoming the final shape it sought after so desperately. That would’ve shown some REAL POWER in the winnower… while not taking away from the witness… imagine being betrayed by the very truth you sought after? And the guardian becomes the newest to bear witness to the fearsome power of the winnower… the guardian stuck in STASIS the voices slicing and severing the STRANDS of hope… the feeling of the SOLAR system being thrust into the VOID… ARC energy bursting throughout our ghost resonating with pulsing from the pale heart… and with everything making sense the guardian with all its might to fight back and save the ghost a burst of prismatic light explodes and the screen goes white… white noise…. Nothing makes sense…
No color, no memory, no power, no ghost, no vanguard… nothing….
300 years later Byf…
“Welcome to the Bray Foundation. Would you like to test your G.uardian H.usk O.perator S.uit for T.ranscendence.”
Enter Destiny 3
Bam! 😂😂😂😂 I tried lol
Excited for your Space Marine content. That universe has LLLLOOOORRRREEEE.
You know what a great move for Bungie to boost morale would be? Hire Byf as narrative director for the next 10 year saga’s story. The community would be stoked to play what he writes!
one problem i see with the d3 topic is: we would just be regrinding the same weapons as bungie is somehow unable to bring new loot to chase. i know that they recently brought some new kinds of weapons with the rocket sidearms, heavy burst hand cannons and the special swords. but to be honest its a bit too few too late.
Uh actually it's the community fault asking for old weapons to come back dude
This is another thing for me as well. Most of the guns in this game just feel same-y. Most guns roll with so many perks that solar scout number 17 feels much the same as solar scout number 5 even if they’re technically different weapons
Your opinions matter very highly to this community Byf. Speaking as someone who has been watching you since the beginning of D1, you have earned the respect of all in this community. The way you convey the stories of the game have fascinated me so much and given me so much knowledge of the game, to the point that within my friend group my friends look to me to answer any lore questions or anything regarding the story. Your words mean more to us than you realize.
34:46 I rather not ask for Destiny 3 would be better if they did a Warframe or FFXIV Online type of reset or overhaul.
A game full of abilities and mechanics go to a game like Warframe with neither? Ha! The player base would never be the same because we play this game for those 2 things
@@chriskrause84 Literally tell me you never played Warframe without telling me:
@@ParagonGoetia there’s character ability’s but no nades, melee, or super. That’s what I mean by abilities… I’m 20 nodes from steel path and I’ve done every quest up to jade shadows. Don’t act like you know if I’ve played or not😂 I was just playing last night. I also have logged in for 29 days straight
@@ParagonGoetia destiny without nades, Meeles, or supers wouldn’t be destiny that’s my point
@@ParagonGoetia I have Octavia prime, revenant prime, volt prime, Umbria Excalibur, and mag… think I’d know any of these characters if I didn’t play ?
I think you just became my favorite ytber with that nuanced opening
Bungie is no longer the studio that could do this franchise and a D3 justice. It needs passionate devs who won't let greed destroy the game, who can't be bought or bribed, who put their heart and soul into it, and who can make Destiny what it always had the potential to be.
A D3 has to be rebuilt from the ground up. New code, new engine, new server structure, etc. Never removing content must always be the basic principle. To achieve this, the game must be built in such a way that it is easily customizable and expandable.
Even the eververse could be so much better. But already purchased cosmetics (armor, ghosts, ships,etc.) must be transferable and available to D3 from the beginning.
Well, consider how many of those devs who were talented and had trained and worked with this engine and these tools no longer work at Bungie, and how hard it's going to be to even get new talent when everyone knows how the culture and layoff cycles work. Bungie of Halo 3 and Reach is dead and gone, and it seems the only people of Destiny's Bungie are the people at the top who ran it into the ground.
They could bring back Marty O'Donnell for those banging Halo/D1 style music tracks. That would definitely help the game, but just my opinion.
Spider is just Pete parsons adding himself to the game.
You know what would be an interesting take? So for the current season Maya asks us to help her create a new golden age, what if Bungie allows players to choose to either be part of a new final shape or to fight it again, literally turn the community into the new big bad. And somehow have the winnower show itself when we are basically having a war within ourselves.
You’re def onto something. An out there idea I had was to refit Gambit to being a more COD-esque system where you’re randomly put into either a City-aligned Guardian or a Dark Guardian and are fighting each other for control over corrupting Darkness relics. Nothing really changes among each group gameplay wise, unless it’s oriented like a (defend/capture) game mode. But, on a base level, it would change the dialogue and aspects of your HUD. Maybe you’d hear the Witness, Calus, Fikrul, or whatever other enemy faction leader as your guardian would be under their command.
Granted, the moment for that has passed since the Witness’ would absolutely have done that (and did do it when Stasis was hot). But nowadays it’s not nearly as chaotic. It’s a shame they never leaned into anything like it at the time because it would have been great to see Gambit have lore relevance, gameplay changes and even new game modes, and maybe even an excuse for rare weapon drops based on the factions leaders.
I don’t think the winnower is a villain, darkness is a neutrino force, and the winnower is the darkness itself, it even says itself it is no mastermind
@@mitchelldondlinger1876 I agree, the Witness was the Winnowers first knife and the closest thing to being the entity of the darkness
@@solfighter6447 ngl I don’t believe for a second that the witness and winnower were distinct entities in bungies mind until the last year or two at earliest. they talked before about how they had no idea what they were working toward with the darkness. I very much doubt that this was ever not the case in some way and might still be. If anyone reads tyrannocide and all the other earlier lore about the winnower, sword logic, and bomb logic they will immediately find a wealth of ideas that have never been fully tapped. I think the lore got too big and they didn’t know how to convert it into workable content.
The winnower is not the manifestation of darkness, the winnower created the darkness but is not the darkness
Personally I don't care about it too much. Yes it does suck to deal with, but I have to experience a downwards hill for more than Destiny 2. I am a fair experienced Overwatch player and I hope some who may your videos know enough. I enjoy both games as I please regardless of the current hills them both are going on, but one day at a time.
The problem with a reset is the type of game destiny 2 is told to be. Its being called an mmo and when you put that there its compared to existing titles such as ff14 and WOW. BUNGIE needs to rwork the server infrastructure of the game alllowing more players to exist in a single location, porting D1 and D2 into a singular existance, rework all equipable items to remove fluf and give a reason to use items. I could write a hundred page essay but thats a glimpse of what i believe they should do.
destiny 2 was too much of an outdated game when it released to have been the game they built upon for years. Might as well have kept D1 open and expanded upon because D2 was just a DLC when it launched. If they were going to make a fresh start, which they did, they should have actually upgraded the game to more modern standards and not essentially keep expanding a game that was created on the ps3
I don't care if i loose my stuff. I have over 8k hours of play time in D2 and got almost everything. But as they say. Its the journey and the memories we forge on the way. And nobody can take this from me. So wipe it all clean and let us start anew -together- ;)
@@z-impi8476 Destiny 3 shouldn’t be hard to do. Bungie can do a time skip of 30-50 years. New universe. New guardians. Your guardian is a young man/woman who is attending guardian school and ready to fight the darkness. The guardian arrives at school and is waiting in class when suddenly your D2 guardian (you can only pick one class to transfer to D3) walks in and give a speech about how your whole life is about change. Your D2 guardian will be a mentor to your D3 character sharing stories of crota, oryx, argos, galhran and etc.
Destiny 3 is only a good idea if they get a leadership team AND a dev team thats highly talented
Its easy to shit on the 'C-Suit'
Its harder to recognize Bungie really wasnt that crunchy of a studio and the devs have had amble time to get shit done.
700+ people at that studio. If things are perpetually wrong, its not just a handful of people to blame ONLY
A wipe on peoples progress isnt worth shit if the new game has the same flaws baked into its core loop
They need to hit the whiteboard fresh if they want to make a Destiny 3. And that just doesnt sound like something any iteration of bungie is capable of.
Its been 10 years and i still dont have the raid i paid for when i got yhe D1Y1 Season Pass. Why would i trust any buzzword riddled 'communication' from anyone whos income is even remotely correlated with the games success???
Thanks for all the lore exploration and explanation throughout the years byf and best of luck for whatever you decide to cover in the future 👍
How the hell can people possibly say Final Shape was better than Forsaken? i'm so puzzled by this.
Your mom
I would love to play a d3 with that storyline. A solution to the loot problem I think would be for people to pick maybe 50 or so items from D2 that they want (not exotics) then later on in d3 the new main player can go into like a crashed helm and pick up those 50. for new players, it would be 50 or so descent weapons. this would have to be a difficult quest but it could end up working .
Using the marvel example, as a person who got brought into the game nearly 2 months ago by friends. It feels like the Endgame trailer is everywhere, Phase 1 is apparently great but I can't see it for myself because it's all unavailable anywhere, I'm watching Phase 2 with some confusion, and phase 3 I've got to decide if I want to purchase or not. All while behind production there's allegations and maybe Feige culled half the studio to fund his own floating Thanos Throne or something, idk. I just know phase 2 is fun when with friends and feels like I'm missing a lot of significance when looking at narrative things. And there's merch all over for Endgame that looks and sounds cool.
I've always loved the idea of introducing the Gardener and the Winnower playing a chess game. I would love a cutscene of them just talking and playing chess, referencing events that have happened over the 10 year saga. We get glimpses of their motives and ideologies and we get out first character portrait of the two entities that we'll be revolving around in our next story.
I just want a conversation, a way to finally put a face to two figures we've been reading about for ages.
I quit after I completed final shape, the only way I see myself coming back is for D3. I still love destiny, I still watch it, it’s just felt meh a long time to me, so maybe I need a break but I haven’t played for over 2 months and feel no need to.
Then you have no opinion
@@lazyvoid7107 you should always listen to the reasons people drop your live service game if you want it to survive. Plugging your ears and going “lalala can’t hear you” won’t fix anything
Couldn't have said any of that better myself. We will wait and see what comes, but Hope can be a powerful thing. Destiny's story proves exactly that. Now to see if one of it's most powerful in-game messages can mirror it's story in real life.
D3 isn't happening. I think Bungie has made that abundantly clear.
And even if it was, people act like it'll fix all our problems. It won't. Because the problems stem from bad leadership and poor mismanagement at the company itself. If that isn't fixed first, then it doesn't matter how many new Destinys they make, they're still going to be garbage.
Imagine having a broken controller and being unable to play games because of it. Instead of replacing the controller, which is clearly the problem, you instead buy a new game, or a new console entirely and expecting that to somehow fix your issue.
I absolutely second this. We've seen this from D1 to D2's launch.
We need better leadership and management if we're hoping for a D3, honestly. Otherwise, we all know what to expect from a new game, given their track record.
“Imagine having a broken controller and being unable to play games because of it. Instead of replacing the controller, which is clearly the problem, you instead buy a new game, or a new console entirely and expecting that to somehow fix your issue.“
Never seen a more perfect way of describing this situation.
@@John-v5mthis is probably the greatest analogy I’ve ever heard
@@cantbearpuns7439 Destiny 2 was a nearly complete rewrite of the graphics and game play systems. The reason why D1 had horrible content droughts was because game play iteration time was insanely slow, with overnight builds required to test even minor changes. D2 reduced iteration time to "hours" at launch, which was still terrible -- it took another game play and content system rewrite, and a couple more years before it was reduced to "minutes".
D3 could theoretically start with game play systems that already work out of the box, although I assume they would need some kind of graphical upgrades to be competitive visually with newer titles. I think a challenge in the current game is balance and economy -- there's so much existing gear, abilities, and activities. Starting over would simplify that.
They also would hopefully not make the mistakes they made on D2 (dual primary, no random rolls), and would start out with a plan to never sunset content, which I think was the beginning of the downslide. Perhaps more procedural content, content reuse, better compression, and the ability to downgrade the size of older activities (say reducing textures), where they are still always playable, but take less space.
To reward D2 veterans, perhaps they could carry over seals, and offer rewards (cosmetics, upgrade materials, perhaps early access to a couple new exotics at the end of the first campaign) based on expansions purchased, and triumph or collection scores in the previous game (this could be a way to entice players to keep playing). The only thing carried over from D1 to D2 was character appearance, making no one want to play D1 at the end... Depends on how many resources Sony wants to dump into it, and it's an open question whether they have enough people left to even do it.
ive played since the D1 beta and was a day 1 player launch day on D1. What ruined destiny for me was that D2 at launch wasn't even an upgrade at all it was the same game, characters graphics and enemies ported over from D1. It was a DLC. I've had no interest in starting back up again after quitting D2 a few months from launch. I would have liked to get back in for a fresh start for everyone meaning I wouldn't get back into it unless they made a destiny 3. It's been years and years at this point they could've already done it right this time and actually made a brand new game that was seemingly upgraded rather than release the new game that wasn't an upgrade from the D1 game that was released on the ps3
I’m 600+ comments in now so this may get buried, but as a long time player here’s what I really believe would bring back the audience.
Bungies gameplay foundation is absolute S tier. Nobody complains about how the game feels. But the games old now and people move on.
3 things I really believe would support the future of destiny
1) Destiny 3, that refresh will bring in a brand new audience. A massive burden to new players is instantly feeling behind, missing out on weapons and armor from past events etc.
While the game is beautiful, it’s starting to show its age. I’d love an updated engine, with NEW quest designs. No more bounty style fetch styles. A complete revamp
2) we want new enemies to shoot, the new race from TFS is a good step, but they still feel very similar. Particularly the psion look alikes.
This new enemy that’s been teased? Make him do something that relocates us to another part of the universe. Weather kidnapping the traveler, or opening a massive wormhole next to the earth, or super advanced technology I don’t know I am not a writer.
But I would absolutely love more space exploration. A completely different galaxy, we land and we’re greeted with “???” Enemy races for the first few missions until we understand who they are. Make them unique, and extremely different. Even animalistic.
3) a proper developed pvp team. Proper servers, and a plethora of maps that is constantly updated and monitored. No more lobby balancing, SBMM crap in 6s
Have your dedicated COMP and QUICKPLAY. COMP rewards cycle in every season and are worth it
-
Bungie probably knows this, but it requires effort. So they’re ordered to just monetise eververse instead.
This is what we need though. Not exactly this, but we need new stuff. New engine, bring on D3.
Saying that we need to die while we have a narrative forming with savathun trying to coach us into becoming a god or an outside force of godlike power like she is trying to do
Just a reminder, it’s been 5 years since a gambit update came out
I know it will never happen, but a Destiny Zero would be interesting lore-wise. Where were just beings during the Pre-fall era.
I’d definitely rather have this than a D3. Warlord medieval destiny that focused solely on our recently collapsed earth would be great. With a last city that’s barely built.
Which is why I loved Halo: ODST. Not a Spartan, but a Marine. Running through a city as it falls to the Covenant. Finding the secret story within the story.
@@justcallmeness Give me Destiny but we're playing as one of Shaxx's frames during a war. We could call it War Frames.
I finally left after all the final shape events concluded and it’s been the best 143 gigabytes I’ve ever Deleted. It’s a massive relief after playing generally since house of wolves d1 and journeying through what was ultimately more disappointments than successes. I really hope more players hang up their boots the way half the company has been evicerated💀 maybe then they’ll gain story writing abilities.
The real problem here is I think a good chunk of us want a Destiny 3 or future for Destiny that will last. Bungie clearly does not want to make Destiny anymore and doesn't want to commit to anything of the sort, it's the only financially viable road forward for them...especially if Marathon fails to take hold.
As a diehard destiny fan, I have come to terms that I am okay with either...I loved and still love Bungie's Halo games but genuinely feel that it would have been for the better that the series ended after Reach at this point.
I would love Destiny 3...but regardless of whether or not they do or don't want to do it, I think we all just need one thing:
A clear decision. Either...
they go all in
or
they let the fanbase know they wish to close the curtains and sundown the series.
The thing I hate is, at present, they are probably trying to avoid making more Destiny while trying to avoid telling the fanbase about their wishes to bow out so they can keep making money until we all figure them out.
Would love to be proven wrong, but their avoidance to honestly discuss their hesitance/uncertainty is what angers me as a fan.I can only hope that they are just taking their time, instead, to cook up a new long running plot like FF XIV is doing.
It sounds like your own expectations are the source of your frustration. I understand wanting some degree of roadmap but they gave us a one year window then a 2nd year teaser for D2. How much roadmap do you require in order to enjoy what is on offer today? What other live service games give you a 3 year advance notice of content and an iron clad commitment on any future sequels?
@@robf This is such a shitty argument. Bungie DID give us at least a window into their 3 year plan when they talked about Beyond Light, Witch Queen, and Final Shape, even having the names for three years of content was enough to assure players. The problem this time is that they essentially said, "Yep, we're working!" And then have given no real information to the general playerbase about what they should be looking forward to. Not even a name for the next expansion. So while what's on offer today may be fun and rewarding, we need a REASON to believe that the effort we spend today will have some kind of payoff in 6 months, or a year, or three years because we need to trust that Bungie is cooking and we're not wasting our time on a game that will be dead soon. And given how low morale is, we need it immediately. Cross said it, we've had our Endgame, Bungie NEEDS to tell people what's next because right now there's nothing but a promise.
@Enzar17 If having a 3 year road map is a personal prerequisite to enjoying playing rather than 2 years that's your choice. You really only need to pay for content that's actually delivered and any good. There was always only ever a promise regardless of how many expansion logos were displayed. I think the more shitty argument is not enjoying a film you're watching because you don't know what the 3rd year of sequels will be and when. It's a Marvel MCU mentality that didn't work after Endgame not because they hadn't announced a decades worth of films after but because the films that followed weren't any good.
The only thing that can save Destiny is Sony closing Bungie and taking the studio to Japan. Introducing some Japanese work ethics to Bungie.
Last time I was this early, Bungie still knew what to do with this game.
So.... never?
@@Lorentz_DriverWhy you still here?
Couldn’t agree more about current story beats, I’m also glad that some of these were teased last year, gives me some hope with some of the hints recently.