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Yes, I agree that export tariffs will very likely change depending on the wholesale prices of electricity. That means if energy prices decrease again, the export rates are likely to decrease too. The best protection is to store as much electricity for self-consumption, as you say 👍

Should be paying out the same as they charge.

Agreed! The 15p are great for us as consumers but I don't think they can afford it in the long term with such low wholesale prices.

Octopus is not losing money. They are buying it from us at 15p and selling it to another person for 25ish p. They are sacrificing a bit of margin for relatively few hours of the year and in exchange they earn from your consumption during the rest of the year, your daily charges, your gas bill, etc. Energy supplier's money is less and less energy related.

Interesting. How do you do that? Which tariff are you on?

@@getretrofitted Intelligent Octopus Go. I've been doing this for over a year, my cost of driving my Tesla Model 3 is actually negative. Sometimes I wish I had driven it more so I could be charging to save. I keep it on Cabin Heat Protection etc. Since buying it 18 months ago, my monthly electricity bill went down slightly, even in months when I drove 1600 miles charged at home. I keep telling people how electricity is really cheap etc but they just look at me with a blank face like it doesn't compute. I even had a friend saying it's not true, even though I've been paying the very itemised bill and can see it exactly. I believe the media should educate the public on how to get 7p/kWh electricity instead of talking about the cost of living crisis. I had to change my hot water tank, the plumber wanted to install a Combi Boiler, I had to insist that I want to heat my water with electricity because it's cheaper, both the cost of the energy and the maintenance of the system. I feel that I live in an alternate reality.

@@getretrofitted Octopus Intelligent Go.

That will be Intelligent Octopus go

@@paulhetherington969 Yes, Intelligent Octopus Go. I replied a few times but my comment kept getting deleted, eventually I gave up. I'm trying again now. Since I've bought my Tesla Model 3 in June 2023, my monthly electricity bill has gone down slightly even in months when I drove 1600 miles charged at home. I often have the car charging during the day and take the opportunity to heat the water, switch on the washing machine etc. Recently had to upgrade my water heating, had to insist with the plumber that I didn't want a Combi Boiler as electricity is cheaper in running costs, installation and maintenance. When I tell friends that I pay 7p/kWh, they look at me with a blank face, like it doesn't compute. One friend told me it was impossible, even though I have been getting a very itemised bill every month. I feel that I live in an alternate reality. The news media should educate the public on how to get cheap energy rather than just talking about the high cost of living crisis. I don't have a home charger but find the normal 3 pin wall plug more than fast enough, often adding 120 miles since getting home in the afternoon and leaving in the morning. I never go to a public charger unless I go on a long trip which happens around every 2 months or so. I often wish I had driven more so I could be charging and saving on electricity. A home storage battery in my case would be an unnecessary expense, would make very little difference to my energy cost.

Hey, thanks for your feedback and sorry about the confusion earlier. We have updated the link - now it's the "planning tool" we promised that gives you an indication on the best tariff and battery size. We hope this is more helpful!

Thank you @mykehoole5787. Great setup - looks like you're way ahead of the curve! :) How do you manage the charging and discharging of your battery?

Lots of people always like to ask how long it will take for the hardware to pay for itself. However, I like to think of it in the way that you've suggested in your last point - you pay the money once and then you lock in very cheap energy for a very long time (lifetime of the hardware), plus, there's a great environmental benefit too. In my mind, if you have the money to do it now, it's well worth it to insulate oneself from fluctuating energy costs in the future and to save money along the way.

Hi there, as far as we know the Tesla Energy Plan has been discontinued (www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/tesla-energy-plan) and with a Powerwall 2 you should be eligible for the Octopus Flux tariff. On the Flux tariff you can get off-peak rates of 14.1p / kWh to charge your battery overnight. Only if you wanted to tap into the Intelligent Flux tariff, you would need a Powerwall 3 or GivEnergy battery as these are fully controlled by Octopus Energy. Does that answer your question?

@@getretrofitted Thank you. This is understood.

Thanks for your comment - let's go through your points one by one: Your average rate / kWh: It does look like your average rate at 18 pence / kWh is significantly higher than the off-peak rate on Intelligent Go (~7.5 p / kWh) or the Eco7 rate we use in the video. I assume this could be because most of your electricity is consumed during the day on the peak rate of ~28.5 p / kWh? This is exactly what we're trying to tackle by installing a battery. With the home battery storage that charges up overnight on ~7.5 p / kWh, you can power your home on the same rate during the day. Effectively this brings down your average rate close to ~7.5 p. Business case for buying the batteries: In your message it sounds like there is generally no business for a home battery. I disagree with that statement. Generally we see a very positive business case for most homeowners that we speak to: 1) Price-wise, we can offer batteries for 50% less than only a few years ago as the material prices have dropped significantly and the UK government has dropped the 20% VAT. 2) In terms of savings, we see that most homeowners who have a smart/dual rate meter can get substantial savings on their electricity costs using a battery. These meters allow us to access tariffs with cheap off-peak rates (e.g. Octopus Go, Eco7, etc.). In some cases, the business case might not look as good because either the quoted price for the battery is too high (and price drops haven't been passed on to consumers) or the electricity cost savings of the battery are too low (e.g. because the right tariffs can't be accessed). Time cost of money: Yep, you're right we don't account for that in this version of the business case as we don't want to overcomplicate it. We would be very happy to create a business case with you that discounts the cash flows. Feel free to get in touch at johannes@getretrofitted.co.uk. I would also be happy to provide you a lower quote for a battery (£12k is a very high price)!

@@getretrofitted hi that was for battery with solar.

Mute the sound and use subtitles.

Thanks for the feedback! We'll have less background music and better microphones for the next video.

Heat your water as I do so you need zero gas in summer months

How about if you have no solar at all? Just charging up on the cheap rate overnight to use throughout the day, would that still be worth it for you?

@HecticGlenn That works equally well! If you compare the payback for getting solar + battery or just a battery that charges up over night, the payback is actually a lot shorter for the standalone battery. We made another video about it here: th-cam.com/video/McltN0l20uA/w-d-xo.html

Let's leave your assumption standing correctly “The 5kw battery is quoted as providing a 16% annual yield when used as a supplement to your home.” Then we have 10 kWh of battery left to utilise. For the sake of argument, we will pick market-leading tariffs for energy arbitrage - the Octopus Intelligent Go and Octopus Outgoing Fixed (t&c’s apply). Plus, we will assume that the battery is located in an area covered by flexibility markets and can benefit from the £300 a year. We will also assume that inflation is 2.5% and the cost of capital is 10%. This would give us a 10 kWh battery with a 27% IRR-giving a blended IRR of 23.33% for your investment in the 15 kWh system. Overall, a great investment!

On the Intelligent Flux tariff, Octopus controls your battery throughout the day. In off-peak hours they automatically charge your battery so that between 4 and 7 pm when electricity is most expensive they discharge it to your home and the grid. On the Flux tariff, you have full control and can configure the battery so that it is optimised for self-consumption. In that sense, you use the power from your battery storage on both tariffs, but in Octopus Intelligent Flux you don't have control over it. Ultimately, it's about your personal preference if you want to have that control.

Hi there, we have just tried the link again and it works fine. Could you try again please? www.getretrofitted.co.uk/battery-consultant

@@getretrofitted Thank you the link is now working.

Thanks for pointing that out. This is an added benefit of the larger inverter. However, in most cases even base load + hob + oven will be less than 5kW. Ovens are typically 2-3kW and induction hubs need about 1kW per zone. So only if you power the oven and multiple zones, one will exceed the 5kW. This might not be the day-to-day usage for everyone but maybe indeed for some avid cooks around here :)

Thanks for the feedback, Francis!

I second that motion !

@@tonyblighe5696 I third that motion! I was frantically closing down all my other tabs thinking I had left one open playing music!

So you're blaming Octopus Energy because people weren't willing to pay for an accredited installation. Bitter much? Reading your other posts it suggests to me that you're a "solar installer" that has not bothered to get the certification. You've probably miss-sold customers on the promise that they can go the Octopus Energy route without MCS, and now that has turned around and bit you in the ass.

@@michaelwinkley2302 it just goes to show how wrong you are, I have never miss sold anything and if I do a solar job I make them fully aware that I am not MCs registered. I have been trading since 1996 and have been niceic registered since then so it's not being bitter at all, but if a company makes a big song and dance about signing people up that didn't have MCs certified installs, then changed their policy I think it stinks. The whole MCs is nothing more than red tape, jobs for the boys and it's always the same when government money is on offer. I have been to lots of solar, ashp, ground source biomass etc, where all the jobs were done by MCs companies who had done crap installs, then disappeared when the issues start and the money has run out.

​@@acelectricalsecuritySo basically what you are saying is that I was right to figure out that you must be a solar panel installer that installs panels that their customers can never get paid for exporting. Regardless of what anyone thinks of MCS, if it's a requirement to have it in order to be able to get paid for exporting, installing panels whilst not holding certification is withholding information from your customers. The only time this wouldn't be true is if alongside every solar install you also installed ab

@@michaelwinkley2302 you are right I am an electrician, solar forms a small part of my job, and you don't need to be columbo to work out I install solar. But as I said on the odd occasion I install solar my customers are made aware of me installing their system and if their goal is to claim a feed back tariff I tell them to go elsewhere. As for the MCs this is how much of a farce it is, companies are getting registered they have no one who could install a system, so they turn to contractors like me, yet you are happy to use these companies and probably think that when people like me turn up they actually work for that company. And I can tell you a lot of those companies disappear, and only that I hold back the certificate until I get paid I would have been taken a few times.

@@michaelwinkley2302 Are you an MCS installer or otherwise in the industry? Your observations seem spot on.

I wouldn't touch givenergy with a barge pole. And that's as a customer and installer.

Lol ​@@acelectricalsecurity

@@acelectricalsecurity I have just ordered a 2nd PW2 £6350 installed, my first one has worked perfectly for 4 years im really pleased with it , Why dont you like the Giveenergy battery ?

@@rodden1953 to be fair to Tesla they are really good. This may go on a bit, I am an electrician, my customer wanted a battery for their PV system, I usually use sunsync, but couldn't get one, so my supplier offered me a givenergy battery, I didn't know much about it, but took it and that's when the problems started. I fitted it, seen I was missing instructions, so called them, he asked for my installer number, which I didn't have, then said I was not allowed to energise the system otherwise they would not honour the warranty, until I had done their course. So I had £3k of wall art. I return after doing their course and try to finish off, then they want to know where I got the system from, and tell me the supplier needs to set up an account for me. The supplier calls them gets another story from them. So another aborted visit, I go back again to finish I still can't finish, they want a copy of the certificate they sent me, crazy. Then I get an email from them saying I can't register with them because I don't have a website, that was the final straw. I had to pay a third party to get it online using their account, which was a good thing because the battery would not charge, the charge the battery shipped with was too low, but he had a charger only because it happened to him before, oh and their customer service is rubbish.

GivEnergy AIO is more expensive than Powerwall 3 and it’s crap.

Not any more

That was the case, but in February 2024, that changed

Yep, Mark and Kristian you're right. VAT has been reduced to 0% on both Solar + Battery installations as well as Battery-only installations. We've recently written an article on this too: www.getretrofitted.co.uk/knowledge/government-grants-and-tax-reductions-for-battery-storage

@@getretrofittedDoes that include the VAT on the installation as well as the hardware?

@@normanlazarus1836 Yes, this includes VAT on installation and hardware. You effectively get 20% off your installation and hardware at the moment!