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@@brianhackett7163 Stick. It’s a play-side to back-side read as far as how I coach it: Flat, Stick, Over, Hook, Flat

@@Coach_DDavidson thank you

Never know where life goes! I didn’t ever plan on coaching football. I actually started coaching through strength and conditioning, but that naturally got me around football. I’m young enough as a Rams fan to not remember the Greatest Show on Turf but old enough to remember all the crap that we endured between then and McVay. Since I was just learning the ins and outs of football when they went to the Super Bowl in 18, I had to know the juice behind the offense. I started studying it then, haven’t stopped since, and now I’m coordinating my own version of it!

Thanks so much!

I coach mine at 5 yards

Glad I could help!

I appreciate that thorough response! I love play-side options. Good defenses try to keep their back-side players out of conflict to prevent that original “zone lock” RPO you mentioned. I like same-side runs to read defenders that think they’re on the back-side based on RB alignment, but they’re actually on the play-side and in conflict that way.

@@Coach_DDavidson Interesting. There's a simple base concept to all of this. And I tie it all together in even a more macro concept as simply Pro and/or PS styles.. but the coolest thing that's happening now is all the little nuance and fun with these schemes off the base ideas. As always the NFL is really getting detailed, while college is still experimenting - though to a lesser degree now - with how far a scheme can push the variety on Space and Time in the game.

I actually think a Shanahan vs McVay breakdown would be a great idea for a video. Might have to flesh that out some more. I am interested in what you consider the “power spread” concepts and a “pure West Coast Offense” to be. I would definitely consider the Power, Counter, and Dart reads I broke down here as part of a power spread, but that’s not part of their base offense. I also think that the West Coast offense has pretty well become synonymous with being a Pro Style offense in modern football. To my knowledge, the west coast was unique in the 90s because of the prevalence of passing in it, but that’s not unique anymore. Systems like Shanahan’s and McVay’s also have so much total volume that they can pretty easily morph into almost anything based on what they think will maximize their personnel. West Coast, in my opinion, primarily has unique connotations in regard to the pass game specifically, primarily with shorter, horizontally-stretching concepts.

@@Coach_DDavidson Thank you for the reply and your knowledgable comments! I have a powerspread website (net) for over a decade. Because of the professional work I was doing for sports and other things, I could never keep up consistently or organize it the way I wanted. Still there's a ton of artlicles and ideas thrown around and collected + powerspread podcast and youtube where I breakdown film as well. Not the high level of production you are doing. At this point my associates and friends are trying to steer me away from internet content and towards a book as I have a ton of research on the schematic history of the game - even before Walter Camp! That's my baby. As always - Time. Enough about me - let me get to your question, which btw, in over a decade - you are the first person to actually ask what i actually mean by these terms. Over 10 yrs!! Incredible, but a serious inditement on the age we are currently in - fast - knowing shit - but really dont know shit. A glossary of my terminology is something I wanted to put together for yrs! For ex RTO - amazing know one uses that - that is exactly whats happening when the QB has the option to give - keep - or pass...

@@Coach_DDavidson I don't have room here to answer all of this. Power Spread came to me back in 2008-9. What they were calling "spread" has been around since 1920s with Rusty Russell in TX. Option Football (1940s) evolved and smacked together with Spread football (Rusty>DMeyer>Tiger>Flexbone.RRod/MMatsakis) creating Power Spread. Since that time I have developed a Cultural Identity to PS that covers the history of the game and where it's heading. Simply put - PS in terms of Space/Time. Use of Timing and Playclock. Use of all the Space. Sid Gillman (FSchmidt who coached with DMeyer - its all connected) really expanded football minds. There are 3 shoots of the Tiger R&S - the Neumeir line had some of the pro style elements and combined with Gillman proteges became the Pro Spread that eventually combined with another Gillman protege Bill Walsh to become this WCO of the Modern Pro Game. In the meantime pure PS concepts exploded into three styles UMeyer/GMalzahn/ABriles - really from Talent Based (athletes in space) to Timing to Space. Briles a mastermind like no one before Gillman in the use of Space. Or at least the extremes of it. So thanks to the Shanahans (Mora before that), then Harbaugh, Shula - these guys opened up to the new mobile QB (the most obvious sign of PS) in the NFL. Andy Reid cemented the two systems - Pro PS... and it's taken off from there. Pro = more condensed sets(spread after snap as opposed to pre-snap) - under center - no option but based more on Timing Execution. Option is execution and Timing as well but all about reads. I could go on - but I you know all this so more efficient to ask questions I'd think. Pro & PS is now everywhere, which I predicted back when I started - and in 2019 as I called for the Age of Flexibility to begin (20s) - before that it was just Aggressive Variety without the middle Flex. Now it's all about the Base - Pro or PS - thus PS Pro or Pro PS.. I have other ways to describe as well as experimentation and evolution is happening rapidly. Multiple - Full --- What McDaniels and Slowik are doing is fantastic! I have some recent vids on all of that. Everything in your reply is spot on. Space - how you attack it - Time/Timing - how you manage it. How you combine the two. Again - Pro and PS. This leads to overall Culture of Team and Organization - who other ball of wax. Talent Technique Scheme (or Space Time Team) So all ways match personnel. Take the best attitudes+talent (college talent huge obviously) and the PS system morphs but never goes away. You opened a can of worms my friend, but thank you for the questions...🙂

I appreciate it!

Thanks!

It leaked sometime around late May/early June. I’m still getting it all sorted out by concepts instead of how it was sent to me, which is grouped by install day. When I get that finished, I plan on putting it in my free folder!

@@Coach_DDavidson let’s goo!!! So excited to see their terminology and match the film to the playbook.

@@Coach_DDavidson when do u think you’ll be done sorting it?

Thanks!

Yes sir! Need to add a gap into the box, whether it’s a fullback that can isolate the play-side LB or a tight end to allow the tackle to be uncovered, shuffling deep, and keying that LB.

@@morgonholden9398 I’ve watched McVay pretty closely. I think he just uses regular paper, although a much bigger sheet than 8.5x11 (normal paper). It’s folded so many times that it gets a little thicker. I think the rest of the tree might use cardstock, just based on how it’s held.

This is the Freeform app on my iPad. I use it plus an Apple Pencil for drawing stuff up, and I love it!

Thank you!

I appreciate it! I don't have anything specifically on the I formation, but in my CoachTube course, I draw about every run play from some form of under center to start with. I generally prefer the Offset I to the regular I, though.

Thank you for the kind words! It definitely takes reps and communication, hence why I don't think true Outside/Wide Zone can be an auxiliary run. If it's going to be run correctly, it has to be the base run play for the system. To be the devil's advocate, I think the way you described may be a little more difficult, personally. I like to give my players rules - if this, do that; if not that, do this. Your idea would force the OL to recognize each front and how they are going to block it. The way I coach mine, if they're covered on the play-side, they have a hook (unless the DE is too wide - then it's a match). If they are uncovered, they have the deep shuffle read on the LB. I actually practiced it half-line a few hours ago at practice. I took 3 linemen, put a DL outside the play-side OL, a DL between the middle and back-side OL, and a LB over the middle OL. For example, say it's an Outside Zone weak to the left, it would simulate running to a B gap bubble with a 5T outside the LT and a 1T in the A gap. LT and C both have hooks (covered on the play-side), LG has the deep shuffle read. I just pointed for the LB to either scrape, fill, or fall back, and the hook players know if the uncovered OL combos with them that they are then trying to pick up the LB, whether it's a combo to a scraping LB or rewinding to a fallback LB. Then I put in the RT/RG/C and ran it to the right. After that, I put in the LG/C/RG, and it simulated the interior of the OL when running to a 3T. It's a bit more work on the front end teaching how to sort combos mid-play, but the way I operate and practice, that's a more worthwhile investment for me than teaching different fronts. I get to fronts in-season, showing my guys how we expect the opponent to line up, then I have them try and tell me how it should be blocked up based on our rules. That could just be me, though. I appreciate your thoughts!

Rams House! I've been pumped with how they are shaking out the OL this year, keeping Dotson, adding Jackson, and moving Avila to Center. The strength of the interior OL is vital to the play because Duo is designed to reset the line of scrimmage via double teams at the point of attack. If the OL can drive the DL backwards 2 yards, then the RB should be able to gain at least 2 yards, probably 4-5 by the time he hits a hole and falls forward. If the OL can't move the DL backwards, then it's on the RB to gain every yard past the line of scrimmage, if that makes sense.

Thank you!

I appreciate it!

@@user-lf5mg1nm4h They do make a difference in relation to which way I may or may not want a play to be run. The way I account for that is just in the line on the call sheet with the slashes. For example: Strong RT/LT 18/19 Zorro Cat. If I want to run it left, I know I need to look to the left side of the slashes (or have my QB do it if wristbanding), and vice versa for right.

@@criticaloptimist7961 Gotta save the best for last! 😎😎

I have a CoachTube course out on that, which can be found here: coachtube.com/course/football/shanahan-mcvay-offense-part-5-quick-game-drop-back-passing-concepts/18304566 Philosophically, I like multi-purpose / "good vs any coverage" concepts as a base that keep a similar progression for the QB in terms of the spaces he is looking for his receivers. Right now, I have my drop back concepts such that each receiver has a specific route no matter what the formation is, and my quick game is based off of what number receiver they are, counting from the play-side to the back-side.

Some gun, some under center. Mostly drop back from gun and quick game from under center to keep a consistent 3 step drop for the QB. Could do both quicks and drop backs from under center or the gun, but I like that timing for the QB. Play actions would also be more from under center for better run fakes.

@@Coach_DDavidson I was thinking the same thing and taking in consideration of the qb. If you dont mind what, would be the base dropback concepts

@@michaelrobinson8382 Y Cross and Mesh. Two concepts that are good vs almost any coverage because I plan on doing more runs and play actions than true passing

I appreciate it! It’s about landmarks, timing, and route distribution. A High Corner from a condensed WR and a Runback from a normal split WR get the WR in the same place with the same timing, just from different alignments

Thank you!

I haven’t broken it down into hard data, but just based on my observations of pouring over those playbooks for years now (that one specifically), it seems to me like most of the protections in it are Scat, not Jet. Scat protection is a 5 man protection, so it’s not quite as important, in my opinion, for the slide to marry with the QB’s reads because it can be flipped at the line if there is pressure being shown one way or the other that might make the QB hot, and it has no impact on the RB’s route and timing like it would if he had a check release in Jet protection. That’s just my speculation, though.

@@Coach_DDavidson Right. And with the Jet protections in the 49ers playbook, it is almost 100% sliding to the initial read side with the blocking back behind the qb.

@@mjciavola I’m not sure then. Could be something as simple as Jimmy G felt more comfortable that way back then or that it’s just not as big of a concern for those guys as it is for me. Doesn’t make sense to me for that to be the routine way to do it, but maybe that’s why they’re in the NFL and I’m not 😂

One of mine too! Good vs anything if run correctly, and it can be dressed up a ton of different ways

Those are personnel groupings. Eagle (EA) = 10P, E = 20P, Zebra (ZE) = 11P. It’s more Gruden branch than Shanahan branch of the West Coast, but I like it better because I like to think about the numbers (10, 11, etc.) in terms of how the formation presents to the defense, not necessarily the player types in those alignments.

Yeah, Crunch works, but I don’t like the idea of plays that need specific looks at the high school level. Funny you mention liking the under front defensively because I like seeing it offensively. Out of 21P, I essentially get the same surface to both sides (2 exterior gaps filled), and it’s hard to find a balanced way to create an 8 man box against it without leaving a gaping hole somewhere else. I know I’m not going to get the edge, but even on OZ, being able to fan out the 2 exterior gaps, lead through on the play-side linebacker with the FB, and have an angle on the 1 to be able to “chip” to the back-side LB and seal in the back-side is one of my favorite play vs look combos in football.

@Coach_DDavidson out of the base fronts from a WZ perspective, over fronts is the easiest (weakside bubble is ideal) the odd front and tite front has soft C gaps. The under front takes away the weakside bubble and gives you that hard C gap defender to defend plays like zorro and zap. Plus those fan blocks give me those favorable 1v1s. It carries all of the vertical elements of playing an even front with the DL while giving you a balanced 5 man front. It also lines up to deuce and solo well because running away from the 3 man side is running into an over front where the reduction can mess with the read. Main issue with under front is 11p sets but under is imo should mostly be used vs a base personnel offensively. If I had to play a WZ team tomorrow this would be my main front

@@JohnnyMidey I also like condensing the set or using short motion and working pin and pull scheme with down blocks on 5/9 (great angles) or even weak side truck toss with Tackle wrapping and FB lead? Just curious, what your answer for pin and pull both strong and weak?

This conversation has enough good content in it to fuel an entire series on defense. How to pair fronts and coverages, how that affects run fits, and how to steal back gaps when you're outgapped based on the coverage call. I've heard of rope a dope and fill and fold, but I don't really know what they are, I've never heard of scratch and sniff or surf tech, but if those are all ways to play a true 2 gap technique then they should definitely be tools any D Lineman would want to have in his arsenal

NFL+. I download it and cut it up using Tempo Video.

I coached in a middle school offense where we did that, and it was really good for us. The number talked to the “F” in addition to setting the strength. Certain formations had players together, and they would go to or away from the number we gave the “F.”

Yes sir! Glad I could help!

I appreciate it, and I will definitely look into that! Thank you for letting me know.

@@Coach_DDavidson You sound like you are intentionally speaking quietly as to not disturb someone sleeping in the room. If you are naturally soft spoken then yes, you should probably turn up the recording volume. Thanks.

Yeah, I originally thought it weird to always call it to the Y when the strength of the formation might be away, but I just got used to it because it tells everyone where to go. The base formations I would use, the Y and Z go to the call, X goes away, and the formation itself tells the F where to go. The part I’ll have to get used to is in a formation like Deuce Open that I want to treat as 11P 2x2, calling that strength away from the “tight end” will be strange at first.

Glad you like it! I’ve enjoyed the few videos in this series so far. Plenty more to go, that’s for sure!

Thanks. Must have been a glitch. I fixed it now, but here’s the link: open.substack.com/pub/widezonewarriors/p/coming-soon?r=2ogkaj&

Thank you! I love the intricacies of pass pro.

Not a dedicated TH-cam video, but I do have some stuff out there on it. As far as their concepts go, I just published my course on adapting them to the high school level on CoachTube, which I'll link down below. For mechanics, etc. Anthony Ivany just did a clinic for premium subscribers to my Wide Zone Warriors Substack. Anything specific you're looking for? (Link goes to my concepts course) coachtube.com/course/football/shanahan-mcvay-offense-part-5-quick-game-drop-back-passing-concepts/18304566

I appreciate it! I'm looking forward to this series. Took me forever to figure out the differences between some of these concepts, and I'm hoping to shorten that curve for others with it.

I go over the differences in Jet and Scat in this video. 2/3 is the direction of the protection. 2 = RT, 3 = LT. OL slides away from the call, so in 2 Jet or Scat, the OL would slide left, and vice versa. 200/300 is quick game. Changes QB’s drop, and OL can be more aggressive knowing the ball is coming out sooner.

That’s a good way to put it.

For sure. I like the post-snap Orbit you can get to because they’re so close. Good for holding back-side defenders, end arounds, and flat control on deeper play action concepts

Great Stuff here!!! Please continue to use The Diagrams, they help tremendously with understanding it all!!!👏🙌👏🙌👏🙌👏💯

What are you wanting out of it? Spread & Pro Style stuff like this or more of a Gun Split Back Veer or Gun Wing-T stuff?

18-19 is Outside Zone, so 8-9 would be the WR blocking rules on 18 (OZ LT) and 19 (OZ RT). In most cases for the Shanahan/McVay tree, that’s going to have the WR blocking the safety to their side in MFO structures and the CB in MFC structures.

I appreciate it!