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Thank you all for this good discussion. Next time will make sure to check the schedule and not conflict with you all!

Very good convo here.

Wow, that’s gonna scare a lot of people lol.

Hi everyone! Watching the replay. Looking forward to hearing fresh perspectives.

always love these! you all make a big impact!!

you all have been so helpful! thanks for the podcasts

Florida's curriculum definitely includes weekly explicit vocabulary instruction, at least in elementary school, starting with ten words and increasing the number by grade. But that's part of why some students are referred. They don't do well with that task. They didn't learn the world and pass the weekly quizzes.

“We have been focused on the reaction measures in our field that we forgot an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of care. Why aren’t we focused on preventative measures?” - Dr. McClure

Great discussion as usual

One more comment and I will stop. “There is no afferent connection to the face from the vagal nerve. Afferent is when you are going outward from the face.” That is just plain wrong. Where are you getting your science. In fact who are you?! You mean afferent and efferent connections, moreover, special visceral efferent cranial nerves which phylogenetically formed from the ancient gill arches eventually into the mammalian ventral vagus complex (as the cardioinhibitory neurons migrated from the dorsal motor nucleus to ventral). The five cranial nerves (X, XII, IX. X and XI) and two visceromotor pathways (bronchi and sinoatrial node of the heart. This is known as the face-heart connection. You want the science behind it, eh? It’s called Embryology. Very premature infants who are born earlier than 28 weeks are born without a fully working ventral vagal complex (suck, swallow, breathe and vocalization) and the concomitant capacity to be calmed and down regulated by the mother(functions of ventral vagus complex) are not working. RSA (a measurement of cardiac tone, heart rate variability with spontaneous breathing under different shifting autonomic-environmental challenges) which occurs only in the nucleus ambiguus/ventral vagus is not present (undeveloped). As a result the risk of apnea or neurogenic bradycardia (baby stops breathing). There are direct inter neuronal connections between the vagus and the central nervous system (central nucleus of the amygdala, LHPA axis, periacqueductal gray, etc.) or corticobulbar and corticoreticular (brain stem). Again, in conjunction with evolution and study of mammalian embryology we are talking about the phylogenetic transition of the dorsal motor nucleus from a-social reptiles to a ventral vagal complex in mammals. RSA a measure of cardiac vagal tone is exclusively in the nucleus ambiguus (the mammalian ventral vagus).

I miss your podcast! It's been months

Polyvagal is rich people cult voodoo nonsense. It's as valid as the pseudo science of psychology

18:42 Method

I’m really glad I took the time to watch this podcast! I am a newer subscriber to SP AI on FB and fascinated by the possibilities posed by Sophia! Dr. McClure, you are a well-spoken practitioner and I look forward to learning more about what you have to teach us! Our profession is under attack by unreasonable administrative demands and expectations, specifically related to report writing. It’s time we find ways to level the playing field, (in addition to advocating at the state and federal level for legislative changes) and AI may be THE way! Thank you for sharing your vision and research as we continue to do what is right for our students by increasing our time spent in the classrooms! Happy New Year!🎊

When children (or anyone) presents with many gut problems (esp. inflammation) what we are looking at is the parasympathetic dorsal vagus that is prominent.

The direct connection (practicality of understanding and application) is the understanding of physiological shifts (ventral vagus/safety, sympathetic adrenal-arousal defense, fight/flight or dorsal vagal, withdrawal/shutdown, dissociation and/or immobilization). In other words, the disabusing of the severely misguided notion (systemic historical paradigm) of willful behavior or operant conditioning of a child's behavior (i.e., stimulus/response) to the intervening variable between the S and R which is our autonomic nervous system. So in that process getting rid of explicit or implicit shame and blame, i.e. "If a child just tries hard enough" or is given the proper reinforcement. The latter is a complete farce.

Let’s turn to RSA (respiratory sinus arrhythmia) it is 100% supported by science. What our dear Sir is alluding to is the straw man argument made against RSA by others with cardiorespiratory coupling which is present in all creatures. RSA is a specific function of the mammalian ventral vagus, nucleus ambiguous. It is a measurement, index of cardiac vagal tone of the neuroanatomically linked and coordinated branchiomotor inter neurons of the strained muscles of the face, neck and head (cranial nerves X XII, IX, X, XI) and the directly visceromotor myelinated pathways, two, cardiac pacemaker of the heart and bronchi; hence the face-heart connection unique to mammals; It is also a measurement of vagal efficiency of this breathe-suck-swallow-vocalize and social engagement system.

No. There is evidence of some preganglionic myelinated fibers in some fish, however they are not the cardioventral inhibitory fibers that originate in the Mammalian ventral vagus located in the nucleus ambiguous and that form the mammalian ventral vagal complex connected to the striated muscles of ace, neck and head and recurrent laryngeal nerve which in mammals is specifically suck, swallow, breathe vocalize and during the first 6 months in humans (all mammals) developing into social emotional cuing/engagement, co-regulated social engagement

Wow!!! “Afferent connection means that you are going away from the brain.” NO!!!! efferent connections are the motor fibers leaving from the brain stem. Afferent connection are the interoceptive signals from the vagus pathways coming from the body into the brain stem.

No, you have it backwards. Regulation requires co-regulation .

Again, yes there is indisputably the face-heart anatomical connection. Cranial nerves, V, VII, IX, X and XI connected with two visceromotor pathways, sinoatrial node and the bronchi. Thus the face-heart interneuronal, neuroanatomically linked and coordinated with X , the vagus nerve. This is most borne out of you will in our study of embryology.

There is an indisputable and unequivocal ton of evidence , based upon comparative neuroanatomy, neurophysiology and mammalian embryology of a phylogenetic hierarchy, from endocrine communication of chromaffin tissue with large circulating catecholamines (epinephrine) in the primitive veterinary heart, to a formed dorsal vagal nucleus with unmyelinated nerve pathways (HPA axis) and alongside a sympathetic-adrenal nervous system and then our newer mammalian ventral vagus complex in the nucleus ambiguous. This basic core science. In the context of adaptive hierarchy of Polyvagal theory with respect to the forgoing o er 15,000 peer reviewed articles.

Polyvagal theory does address “fear conditioning” or shall we more accurately phrase, an autonomic nervous system under “chronic states of threat.” The latter being.an adaptive response of our phylogenetic hierarchy. Our ventral vagal complex or our social engagement system is adaptive; our sympathetic-adrenal system is adaptive and our dorsal vagal complex or our ancient primitive older parasympathetic nervous system a shut down or passing out, feinting, vasovagal syncope or immobilization under perceived life threat is adaptive.

I have a clubhouse for educational diagnosticians in Texas. I’d love to collaborate with you all. I’ve interviewed many of the same people as you have.. this is a great resource.

I'm all on board with polyvagal nonsense being a myth, because it IS. But its also a myth that the amygdala can be "hijacked."And it is also a myth that the amygdala is anything but part of the predictive architecture of the brain. We dont "detect" anything in the world except information that contradicts our top down predictions relevant to our models of the world, so appreciate that there is push back on the polyvagal garbage here, but there is also a good bit of reactive brain garbage being broadcast here, and thats too bad.

I'm looking forward to seeing Dr. McGill at NASP! Can you please link the article in the description?

Sophia has been a great tool for me! Thank you.

Dear Rachel, Polyvagal Theory is NOT pop psychology. It has been cited in over 10,000 peer reviewed articles. Before you make such vapid assertions, please read the actual theory and corroborating, supporting science behind it!

There is not any evidence of the amygdala having more connections with the face in contrast to the ventral vagus nerve which is neuroanatomically linked and coordination with 5 cranial nerves (V, VIi, IX, X, XI). Why? Basically, it is a moot distinction, as they are inter-neuronally linked (ascending and descending or upper and lower neurons). Afferents and efferents. Bi-directional (corticobulbar and cortico-reticular). However, you are missing an important neuroanatomical and neurophysiological fact. The face-heart connection is not merely a trope . Those five cranial nerves (visceral efferents) which developed in conjunction with the nucleus ambiguus forming the ventral vagal complex, connected with two myelinated visceromotor pathways, sinoatrial node and bronchi This is the newer parasympathetic uniquely mammalian branch.

Actually there are no, “reasonable objections to it.” The primary critics are the perennially frustrated curmudgeons , Paul Grossman and Taylor. Essentially, they assert false premise about what theory is saying then use that to disproven it (strawman arguments, without any merit to the actual scientific theory and its applications.

It does have scientific backing. It is cited in over 10,000 peer reviewed articles Of course there is scientific evidence with respect to our transition from asocial reptile to mammals. Mammals have a unique myelinated ventral vagal nerve that originated in the nucleus ambiguous in contrast to all other vertebrates in the dorsal nucleus. This was neuroanatomically linked and coordinated in our phylogenetic transition with five cranial nerves (trigeminal, facial, glossopharyngeal, vagus, and accessory/head turning). and two visceromotor pathways, sinoatrial node of the heart and bronchi. This forms the ventral vagal complex or our social-emotional engagement system unique to mammals.

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Awesome

Dr.porges is a genius. Who are these people?

I heard “school refusal.” Can we do a talk on your channel about school refusal? Live your channel!!!

your guest was an abomination of ignorance and arrogance.

*Promosm*

Nice to hear Jo Boaler getting called out here. I understand it is not always professional to slam her, but as someone who lives in CA and sees her name/ideas continuously referenced in college coursework, district wide trainings, classroom application, and now getting codified into state wide approaches - I find her a serious threat to children's LIVES. She deserves any valid critiques one can throw on her name. She is dangerous as far as I am concerned and is actively making my work to help our most impacted learners that much more difficult. She deserves zero respect at this point if she has not actively tried to understand or fix her stances in this area. With that said, others at Stanford, including the president, straight up falsify research in their papers so she is in similar company. Such a sad state of affairs.

Fantastic as always.

Thank you for sharing this illuminating discussion. Polyvagal theory, its shortcomings and yet why people have invoked it so much are just the springboard for loads of insights about science and the difficulties of applying of theory to practice in the real world. Nice one folks and thanks you for your insights and pragmatism Max Pearl!

NO ONE CARES ! ! !

Very helpful

Thank you for this! Waiting on Part III.

Excellent ! Thanks for sharing! School Psychologist from Shaker Heights (ret)

Wow. So this popped up on my TH-cam suggestions. The very first episode!!!! The podcast is just as amazing!!!

My book is coming in soon! Love this idea for the podcast. 😊

What’s the name of the test you’re taking for the next podcast?

Also can you please provide dr christners email I would like the forms he referenced.

Can you share how to purchase these programs for therapy that dr Christner mentioned. Trans diagnostic and the more clinical approach? It does sound like these could be applicable in schools. I am a school psych in Illinois 28 years! Thank you for the important work you do.

Can you please clarify what you mean by General Outcome Measures (GOM) for both literacy and math and what more specific measures look like in both areas. Also, you mentioned CMB-R being a good GOM for reading and I am also wondering what schools who already have F&P might do to with the data they have to support the growth and development of learners? Can you speak to how students are supported in upper secondary in reading and math and interventions utilized? How might these assessments and interventions fare in both U.S. and International Baccalaureate (IB) curricula?