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Alexander Matragos
เข้าร่วมเมื่อ 10 พ.ย. 2014
Food & Beverage Photographer
ECN-2 vs C41 Part II: Darkroom Printing
After comparing ECN-2 and C41 developed film with scanning in mind, I thought it would be an interesting test to see how these two development processes affect the film when making darkroom prints.
Using the two rolls of Kodak Vision3 500T motion picture film that I shot in the previous video, I went ahead and made a few RA4 darkroom handprints to further compare how the chemistry affects the end result.
All images are shot with the Canon EOS 600 and the Canon EOS 50E along with the Zeiss 28mm, Zeiss 50mm and the Canon 100mm USM Macro.
One of the rolls was developed by a lab in ECN-2 chemistry and the other by myself in C41.
All the prints that you see are straight prints, meaning there are no local adjustments. No dodging, no burning, nothing. The paper I used is the Fuji Crystal Archive II on glossy finish and 8x10 inches in size. I used a DeVere enlarger and the prints were developed in an automated processor with RA4 chemistry.
At the end, the prints were scanned by a lab using an EPSON V800 and the tiff files were slightly adjusted to make sure that they match the real life prints as closely as possible.
For full information on filtration with close-up examples have a look at the blogpost.
Blogpost: alexandermatragos.com/blog/2023/5/2/ecn-2-vs-c41-development-comparison-on-kodak-vision3-500t-fb4br
Also if you need any information on how the first part of the test was conducted, including how these rolls were exposed and developed then have a look at the first video which you can find below.
Part I: th-cam.com/video/1Avdmw-4zAY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=y4w1TMqJ3osfnOEv
Note: Some of the following are affiliate links. Using them comes at no extra cost to you, but it helps support the channel with a small commission on qualifying purchases.
SCANNING GEAR & TOOLS
Viltrox L116T - amzn.to/4bXz7oK
3D Printed Holder for the Viltrox L116T (design) - www.thingiverse.com/thing:5200165
EFH - Essential Film Holder - clifforth.co.uk
Manfrotto Super Clamp - amzn.to/458OrfW
Manfrotto Stud/Spigot - amzn.to/3KrH35U
Manfrotto Tripod Head - amzn.to/3yJG26G
Cutting Mat - amzn.to/3Xa6bWA
Tethering Cable (USB-C to 2.0 Mini) - amzn.to/3VsK8cd
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM Lens - amzn.to/4c6MbYX
Negative Lab Pro - www.negativelabpro.com
WEBSITE: alexandermatragos.com
INSTAGRAM: alexandermatragos
Using the two rolls of Kodak Vision3 500T motion picture film that I shot in the previous video, I went ahead and made a few RA4 darkroom handprints to further compare how the chemistry affects the end result.
All images are shot with the Canon EOS 600 and the Canon EOS 50E along with the Zeiss 28mm, Zeiss 50mm and the Canon 100mm USM Macro.
One of the rolls was developed by a lab in ECN-2 chemistry and the other by myself in C41.
All the prints that you see are straight prints, meaning there are no local adjustments. No dodging, no burning, nothing. The paper I used is the Fuji Crystal Archive II on glossy finish and 8x10 inches in size. I used a DeVere enlarger and the prints were developed in an automated processor with RA4 chemistry.
At the end, the prints were scanned by a lab using an EPSON V800 and the tiff files were slightly adjusted to make sure that they match the real life prints as closely as possible.
For full information on filtration with close-up examples have a look at the blogpost.
Blogpost: alexandermatragos.com/blog/2023/5/2/ecn-2-vs-c41-development-comparison-on-kodak-vision3-500t-fb4br
Also if you need any information on how the first part of the test was conducted, including how these rolls were exposed and developed then have a look at the first video which you can find below.
Part I: th-cam.com/video/1Avdmw-4zAY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=y4w1TMqJ3osfnOEv
Note: Some of the following are affiliate links. Using them comes at no extra cost to you, but it helps support the channel with a small commission on qualifying purchases.
SCANNING GEAR & TOOLS
Viltrox L116T - amzn.to/4bXz7oK
3D Printed Holder for the Viltrox L116T (design) - www.thingiverse.com/thing:5200165
EFH - Essential Film Holder - clifforth.co.uk
Manfrotto Super Clamp - amzn.to/458OrfW
Manfrotto Stud/Spigot - amzn.to/3KrH35U
Manfrotto Tripod Head - amzn.to/3yJG26G
Cutting Mat - amzn.to/3Xa6bWA
Tethering Cable (USB-C to 2.0 Mini) - amzn.to/3VsK8cd
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM Lens - amzn.to/4c6MbYX
Negative Lab Pro - www.negativelabpro.com
WEBSITE: alexandermatragos.com
INSTAGRAM: alexandermatragos
มุมมอง: 566
วีดีโอ
ECN-2 vs C41 Development Comparison on Kodak Vision3 500T
มุมมอง 17Kปีที่แล้ว
With quotes claiming that the ECN-2 process yields far better results when developing cinema film and that C41 degrades the colour and contrast rendition, it got me interested to do a direct comparison of the two processes using Kodak Vision3 500T, developed in ECN-2 and C41 chemistry. All images are shot with the Canon EOS 600 and the Canon EOS 50E along with the Zeiss 28mm, Zeiss 50mm and the...
400ft to 100ft - Bulk Loading Kodak Vision3 500T Cinema Film
มุมมอง 18Kปีที่แล้ว
Respooling a 400ft roll of 35mm Kodak Vision3 500T cinema film in order to use it with the 100ft size bulk loaders. Utilising a 3D printed respooler. Blogpost: alexandermatragos.com/blog/2023/2/16/400ft-to-100ft-bulk-rolling-kodak-vision3-500t-cinema-film 3D Design: www.thingiverse.com/thing:4868217 Bulk Loading: Matt Day: th-cam.com/video/Evk_oR7TO1o/w-d-xo.html Hashem McAdam: th-cam.com/video...
Building a Copy Stand to Scan Film for $100
มุมมอง 70Kปีที่แล้ว
Building a copy stand in order to scan film, utilising three easy to find items. A flange, a pipe and a piece of plywood. A cheap and sturdy DIY solution that can be assembled in a couple of minutes allowing to scan film at home with ease. BLOGPOST: alexandermatragos.com/blog/2023/1/15/building-a-copy-stand-to-scan-film-for-100 Note: Some of the following are affiliate links. Using them comes a...
Thank you Very much for a good video.
You are very welcome! 🙏🏻
Great video!
Thank you!!!
Hi Alexander, a great video from you. Everything is clearly understandable, but I can't find where I can buy the 3D model. Do I have to have it printed or is there a specialist shop where I can buy it? I would be very happy to receive an answer from you. Thanks and greetings from Munich Walter
Hi there, thank you for watching and for getting in touch. I made this video to share how I dealt with the problem i faced with copy stands. The lack of variety in the market and the fact that good quality ones cost a significant amount of money. I made the video having in mind that other people could find it to be a helpful resource in case they wanted to do something similar. It is not a product I am selling, it’s only a visual guidance in case you want to do something similar.
Hi Alexander, thanks for your fast answer. Ok, I understand, You don’t bought it, it’s only a tip how it can look like. So I will thinking about and will built a similar. I think I will build it from wood. By an have a nice time. Greetings Walter
5:27 What camera did you use for this? And where did you get the 500T film from?
I used the Canon EOS 600 and the Canon EOS 50E for all the comparison shots that you see. As for the film, I purchased it from frame24.co.uk
@@alexandermatragosAh okay sweet, do you remember the lens?
@@strawberrycrxme Zeiss 50mm 1.4 ZE
Looks nicer than their overpriced 600. I built mine like yours . Thanks for the great idea .
Thank you!! It totally looks really sleek, especially on the black finish i did. But the most important thing is that it’s rock solid.
I think. And that’s just my thoughts about the ecn2 and its normal use for it. That the ecn2 process is for color additive scanning. As to where in the darkroom we do color subtraction printing. I could be wrong. Also to keep a lot of details on the screen and not get washed out shadows but to keep details there in.
From what I know, in the past, before the digital age film had to be shot and edited by hand and at the end of the process it would be printed on “print” film in order to be distributed in the cinemas for projection. A lot of it’s final look would come from this print. Have a look at Kodak’s 2383 print film. Nowadays I don’t think they have to print it unless they do 35mm screenings but they add this look digitally. You might have seen a 2383 lut if you played around with video editing software. And finally, it absolutely makes sense to me to have as much information during capture in order to be able to color grade and edit as you wish. Even though it’s not meant to be printed with RA4 chemistry in the darkroom it was fun to have a go at it. And the results are definitely not bad, just lower in contrast and saturation which gave the images an interesting look.
How long was the 1 inch steel pipe that you used to build your copy stand?
Just saw this question answered in one of the comments. Thanks for the brilliant design!
Thanks a lot! Anything else you might need, feel free to ask!
Your pipe is 70 cm, correct? Will that be enough you think to Scan 6x6 120 negatives? Or should one go for 100 cm or even more? Great video btw.
Thank you! The pipe is indeed 70cm and I am comfortably scanning 6x6 and 6x7 with the 100mm macro. I don’t shoot any 6x9 but it is definitely within range. And I have never tried scanning 4x5 but most probably I would need to switch lenses for that, or I would need a taller pipe. Hope this helps!
My man 💗💗💗
How rigid is this setup? If you touch/tap the camera, do you see any movement and have to wait for it to settle?
In my book this is rock solid! But whichever setup you are using, a remote shutter is the wisest choice. I’m shooting tethered through Lightroom and I would generally recommend to shoot remotely to avoid vibrations.
@@alexandermatragos Thanks for the reply. I currently use a tripod but the problem with that is that it moves a lot even when I walk around it (my floor is not very rigid lol). So I'm looking for ways to make something super sturdy that I won't need to set up each time, this method looks promising!
In that case you will see a massive improvement both in setup time and lack of vibrations. A tabletop solution will eliminate the vibrations from the floor. And it really is rock solid, it was one of my main reasons for going that route. I didn’t want to sacrifice stability and that’s what I love about this design. It’s cheap but not flimsy. You can built tables or anything you like from these materials. If you have money to spare, I’m sure the negative supply stands and other expensive options will be sturdy as well and probably quicker at switching between 35mm and 120. But they cost nearly $600 at the top end. Not $100.
Thank you for making a nice 4 minute video and not a 16 minute art film !
Well now, I'm impressed. Looks awesome and very clean. Now I have a weekend project...
Hello! I really enjoyed the video. Thank you. I have a question. I'm in South Korea, so can I personally buy 400ft or 1000ft Kodak film from Kodak? Like E100D (5294). And if I can, how can I buy it?
Thank you! Check out Kodak’s website. They have an extensive list of all authorised distributors for every country. You can find all the information there. Hope this helps!
To be honest - to me - all those shown copy stands are just enlargers without enlarger heads with extreme prices because “Made in Germany”. Seeing all those Czechoslovakian Meoptas that are built like tanks that could do the same job and hold up for decades. I mean I got my Opemus 6 for free (they go for round 20-40€) with Peterson timer. The head is detachable on universal bolt and you end up with perfect copy stand with micro focusing lever - I only need to figure out the mount for the camera to hook up.
I totally agree, they feel way overpriced to me. That’s what initiated my search for something at a reasonable price that wouldn’t sacrifice stability/sturdiness. An older enlarger can also do the job, and as in your case sometimes you can find them for free.
thanks mate, all i needed.
Great no nonsense video. This is exactly what I want from an informative video.
Much appreciated! I recently uploaded a part 2, exploring the differences when printed in the darkroom, if you want to check it out. Many thanks!
Thanks for posting. I went a similar route, although instead of a pipe and flange, I used a £2.50 black table leg from IKEA which I mounted from beneath the ply board (12" x 15") and protruding upward through a suitable diameter hole (40mm) for a clean surface appearance. I also covered the base with a neoprene mat to protect the surface I used the stand on. To ensure the camera axis remained parallel to the table leg and was easy to reposition vertically to cater for different media, I employed a 30cm arca swiss rail secured to the table leg with a pipe clamp at each end and then used a back to back arca swiss clamp to attach the camera to the rail. The other advantage of this approach was that the leg (optionally with fittings) can easily be unscrewed from the base for storage convenience. Total cost inc taxes and shipping £32.50 (crab claw clamp x2 £8.54, Bexin QR-50B double sided arca swiss clamp £14.44, PU-300 arca swiss 30cm rail £7 - all from AliExpress, except the off-cut of ply which I got from a friend for free and the £2.50 table leg from IKEA . lol)
That sounds very interesting! Thank you for sharing. I would love to see photos of it, feel free to drop me an email.
@@alexandermatragos I'm not sure where to find your address as it's not in your about section, so I've guessed you're on gmail.
@@mosfear I received your email! Great stuff, thank you for sharing, very nice approach. I like the arca rail as well, makes it easier for slight adjustments. (Also I will update TH-cam to add my email, thanks)
very cool 👏👏
Thank you!
So happy to see this follow up.
Thank you!!!
I like the more natural look of ECN2...... But for personal reasons, id probably edit in-between the two 🙂
Same, if could slightly increase the contrast in the ECN-2 shots then I thinks these would be my favourite prints.
Brilliant!!! 🙂
Nice one mate! Dark room printing’s so cool
Thanks Lucien! It has been a lot of fun so far. It makes you very involved going from snap to finished print.
WOW..thank you so much for this video and additional details of items you used.
You are very welcome! Glad you found it useful.
Where can people find 400ft of film stock. I can find 100ft rolls but 400ft seems to be a monster to find.
Have a look at Kodak’s website, they have a list of all the authorised distributors around the world. You should be able to find a distributor in your country.
hey alexander, could i ask you what the size dimensions of the small loop on the respooler? i want to know how wide 100ft of film would be. thanks
Hi there, I’m guessing if you download the files of the design you’ll have an accurate measurement for all parts. That being said I can have a look when I get the chance and send you over some dimensions.
@@alexandermatragos i have a small DIY version ive made myself out of lacquered wood and i wanted to put a circular groove marking the dimensions of a 100ft roll that can be felt in the dark.
@@madskdz Hey there, it sounds like you are crafting a really nice piece. Sorry for the late reply, I've been kept so busy lately. If you drop me an email at alex@alexandermatragos.com I will send you some photos/measurements I took. Hope this helps!
You are amazing!! Thank you so much for this! :)
I think that in all the comparisons made the one on the left (I think it's the ECN-2) is more greenish and the one on the right (I think the C-41) is more magenta
I will agree, If you look very closely there is a slight tint. Easily correctable though. I’m currently working on the same comparison but with darkroom printing instead of scanning. Things are looking much different in this one. I will be probably posting a video by the end of this month.
Grain appears to be the biggest difference
Haven’t noticed a grain difference so far. What’s your experience?
@@alexandermatragos 7:41 in your video. The sky has a noticeable difference in grain. I home develop my film and I stick with c-41 simply for the cost and easier temperature management during developing.
@@RonEMarks it’s kinda hard to tell on this one. One of the shots could have been slightly underexposed even though I used the same settings. Light was fading fast in this scenario. Keep in mind I had to swap lenses and change the camera on the tripod. Not a long procedure but still could have some effect.
Wel, I'm gonna do the freakin' same thing. For the metal pole itself, I'm using a metal table leg. It comes with the mount. Great vid!
Thanks! Send photos, I’d like to see the finished design! I hope it works out great for you.
great test, although i am wondering: if the same lens was used for both than why is the C41 version always sharper?
Thanks, as for the sharpness I can’t say I noticed one being sharper than the other. Though I can have a look at my files and see if I can spot anything. Are you referring to a particular image or do all the c41s appear sharper to you?
@@alexandermatragos at 07:24 for example when you zoomed in, the left image (if i understood well was C41) looks a bit sharper. i turned up video quality to max to double check and see the left one's sharper during close ups.
@@grainificentThat one was a long exposure so there is always the potential of a slight movement from wind etc. I’m currently working on a part 2 comparison where I did darkroom prints to see if I can find the differences there. While printing I didn’t run in any sharpness issues.
@@alexandermatragos ok :)
Excellent presentation very inspiring to go out and build your own !
Thanks, I appreciate it!
It is absolutely astounding to me that a 5-pack of Porta 400 35mm is £95 in the UK, which is 5.5 hours at the median wage. In the US, the same box is going for $76, or about 3.3 hours at the median wage!
Yeah, it’s absolutely nuts. Slide would be a couple of days of work. I still shoot it, but it does hurt!
THANK YOU SO MUCH!! THIS IS A HUGE HELP! I was seriously worried that no one would answer this question for me. Thank you so much!!
Happy you found it useful! Thanks
This is fantastic, going to give it a shot. Thank you
Outstanding!!!!!!!!!
Hello, what is the name of that clamp ?thanks a lot
It’s manfrotto’s super clamp
were you using a 85b filter to shoot the 500T?
No I did not use a filter.
Did you remove the remjet after shooting the film, and before scanning it?
Yes I did. Wether you develop in C41 or ECN-2 chemistry, the first step is to remove the remjet layer. Unless you are shooting an already remjet removed version of the film like the ones sold by cinestill.
Thank you!
@1:28 Where'd you get that mounting bracket for the Viltrox 116T light? I have that same light (multiples, actually) and it'd be nice to have a similar bracket.
The light holder is 3D printed. The design is free, you can find it here www.thingiverse.com/thing:5200165
@@alexandermatragos Very nice - thanks for the link. (Might I suggest you add this to the list of Resources on your blog post, too?)
@@GregJoughin You are welcome! Actually I probably should add it to the blog post, it’s one of the things I get asked about more frequently. I guess I just omitted it as the focus of this video/blog post is the copy stand and not a full “how to scan” tutorial. But I should somehow mention it. Thanks!
The issue with scanning ECN2 on a DSLR is you are using a narrower band of dynamic range of the digital sensor. So once you set a white point and black point you are dealing with a smaller range of data leading to more noise
I assume you are comparing it to scanning it using the scanners they use in motion picture films like the Blackmagic Cintel. I have shot some Vision3 through Silbersalz so I have seen how flat the Cintel scans the film, though I have never done a side by side comparison with a dslr.
Thank you for testing and documentation, looking into this right now. I do think that c41-cross processed cinestill has a slight magenta/pink/yellow color cast, but its not always so visible. Color casts from other issues are a bigger problem for me (age fog and using tungsten balanced film without a filter, in particular).
This is excellent. Thanks for taking the time to post this invaluable content.
Thank you! I’m glad you found it useful.
Looking forward to your ra4 comparison. Nobody has explicitly done that on TH-cam yet although Ribsy got close by at least trying both processes but no A/B comparisons.
I recently started dipping my toes in ra4 printing. I might have a quick go next time on a few of these frames. If I do I will definitely update the blog post.
Really great test, this was a huge help for me!
Thank you! Glad you found it useful!
I'm about to bulk load 500T myself, what iso did you rate the film at?
@@jamesskehan5400 I’m usually metering at 400, just as a small safety net. Have fun with it!
I'm going to try and make this - thanks! But where do you find a super clamp with a stud?
I guess you can find this at a camera store?
Hey there, have a look at photography equipment stores, you should be able to find it relatively easy. It is a very versatile tool that most studio photographers are using in all kinds of rigs.
Thank-you for this. Great prototype totally worthy of emulation! One quick question. You have a stand/base for the Viltrox L116T unit. I've been unable to find such a stand available for purchase online. Where did you get it? [perhaps 3D printed?] TIA for any helpful information you (or other commenters) can share!
Thank you for watching, I’m glad you found it useful! As for the light holder, it is indeed 3D printed. The design is free, you can find it here www.thingiverse.com/thing:5200165
How do you attach the film to the 100ft spool? Is scotch tape strong enough or do you use a special type of tape. Looking at the 3d designs there doesn’t seem to be a slot to hold the film. Thanks
Hey there, scotch tape is fine, no need for something fancy! :)
@@alexandermatragos thanks for the reply and the video. One last question - what tape do you use to tape the canister with remaining film to protect against light and in refrigerator. Blake masking tape or gaffers tape?
@@amanpatel35 I’m using black gaffers tape but you shouldn’t worry, film sits inside a black back and then into the canister. As long as the lid stays shut there is nothing to worry about. Feel free to ask anything else you want. Happy to help.
Wow, thanks for this. I’m really pleasantly surprised by the results, but not at all surprised by BigLabs wanting to keep this a secret…
Such a great video, I've been frustrated with the cost of home scanning equipment and this is a very easy solution. I've just purchased everything I needed (Pipe + Flange, Manfrotto Super Clamp (+ 3/8" pin), Film Holder (+ 6x6 mask), Ball tripod head) for a total of £167 which is the cost of a prebuilt copy stand alone. I already have a light source and plywood which would have added another £40-50 however which is worth noting if anyone is planning to build this in 2024. Thank you for sharing!
Nice to hear! I hope you get a good use out of it. It’s still one of the sturdiest and cheapest solutions out there. And I love the modularity of the whole dslr scanning process. Every part is easily upgradable, unlike flatbed or other dedicated film scanners. And once you are done with the upfront costs you will not have to worry for anything else. You can send me a photo as well, I’d be happy to see it once you complete it. Thank you for watching!
@alexandermatragos absolutely, modularity is great! I'll be sure to send you a photo in a couple of week once all the components arrive!
Are you getting any-- and I mean *ANY* issues with vignetting/ reverse vignetting with this setup? The Valoi Easy35 has given me nothing but problems so far (can't get rid of the orange corners on any scan I do)... Exploring a copy-stand setup now where I can have more control, and am thinking about literally copying yours... Really looking to find a setup that gives me nice black borders on my scans, even illumination, etc.
I haven’t used the Valoi Easy35, so I don’t really understand why it gives you vignetting. You think it’s coming from uneven illumination? Could it possibly be the lens. I don’t have any issues with the setup I’m using. And even if I had I could work on it. The valoi you are using doesn’t give any leeway. But it’s weird that it gives you vignetting. Did you try to email them? See if they have any suggestions?
@@alexandermatragos Lens is Sigma 70mm 2.8. It's not the lens. Yeah they sent a second unit that they claim they had improved but same issues are present. It's a totally contained black 'pipe' essentially, so it could also be the light falling off on the edges due to that, and like you said, it's a fixed design.