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The Literacy View, your channel is a gem, can we be friends

Zoom-bombed??!! Is that a thing?! So sorry! I heard the episode on apple podcast. Great discussion. Lots of important questions still to be answered. Thanks for your work, honesty, and tenacity. Love you two.

I loved Earobics!!

BTW cultural transition to audio-visual media answers WHY we need to transition from the primacy of print. We need to account for actual language shifts addressed by linguistics. Speech to print is so much more than reified phonemes. Dialect is not whim. For me, speech to print has worked when other things haven’t.

I so like that someone is directly addressing the points of disagreement. Brave! Awesome job all participants 🙏

Thanks Faith and Judy for tackling this one. I also followed this online discussion with interest, but the theoretical nature of this one was enough to make me want to throw up my hands. That said, I believe Dr. Seidenberg has valid points and that he realizes the dilemma. He says " Whereas I do not see any practical, empirical, or theoretical basis for teaching these weird “phonemes” (he is referring to the likes of schwa-less /b/), the evidence is very strong that letter sounds are important. They are essential for getting sounding out words-reading aloud-off the ground. The standard sounding out activity plants the idea of treating words as if they consist of spoken parts, which correspond to graphemes. The activity has a lot of other benefits, of course. The main point is that the letter sounds are only a tool, not the object of extensive instruction. " I think this last sentence is key. We need to find practices to help students find the on ramp for how our code works, to get it "off the ground"(I must say schwa-less /b/ has been one way for my students), but avoid spending too much time on things that really aren't necessary (or don't exist). Help them see the system, teach set for variability, and let them READ to develop their sight vocabulary. I'll be waiting to hear how this plays out.

Seidenberg needs to get out of his head and into a classroom for a few years. His work is a bit of mental masturbation at best these days.

Loved this conversation! I'll need to listen a few more times to absorb it all. Maybe some high-quality worksheets can replace some fun but fluffy centers/work stations.

This was truly special. Debbie has been my inspiration for reading (and spelling) instruction and both Faith and Judy are making all of this knowledge come alive for those who may be new to such inspirational figures in the literacy world.

Fantastic💕These conversations are much needed, in schools, in teacher training colleges, with parents/carers and policy makers. Schools need to choose their SSP programmes and the accompanying decoders very carefully, some are def better than others. As a parent of two children who were taught using 2 diff SSP programmes with diff decoders it was interesting to compare and critique the two. Well done ladies, a great episode.

Great interview. Thank you Judy and Faith.

Hi are you open to buy this channale 300 k subs + It can help you to make your brand reach out more audience & can help you to open doors for some more great guests

I'd love to see an episode that expands on this topic and looks at open plan classrooms. They have been very popular in Australia for the last 20-30 years and they don't help learning for any students. Students with language deficits or neurodiversity of any kind suffer more. This makes sense when you consider the massive extraneous cognitive load of having multiple classrooms in a single space and the inherent potential for distraction. As someone with moderate hearing loss, the background noise is unmanageable for teaching too.

This has been so helpful! I love how you can use the strategy no matter what reading program you have. Thank you for this :)

Question: what if kids are substituting t for d (or other unvoiced/voiced cognates) is beginning of words? Or f for th at end of words-and it’s not a dialect issue? What does a teacher or reading specialist do? Send the kid to the slp for an evaluation?

Thanks so much for hosting this conversation. Thank you Kenn Apel and Jan Wasowicz for giving your time. BTW: a person studying linguistics takes phonetics, too. Not only students of communication sciences and disorders. The whole vowel valley thing appears the old LETRS and From Speech to Print. And yeah- its in the LiPs training

Love you guys! ❤

Love these thought-provoking discussions. Cheers from a lefty down under.

I disagree with the coment that students will be in trouble for standing up. I have been a teacher for decades, I have never seen or heard of a teacher being strict by a student standing up, provided the student is not disrupting the learning of others. Though I never taught at desks in straight lines. I do not even mind if students get up and pace while listening or reading.

I had different seating arrangements in 3rd, 4th, and in 5th and 6th grade. They were all different.

Interesting point about scope and sequence. Made me think that the foundational scope and sequence should be part of a student's academic records when they transfer schools. We have a lot of transient students, and that information would be helpful immediately for the new teachers. More valuable than grades in elementary.

The Union council that voted on this consists of 100+ democratically elected classroom teachers who meet every 6 weeks for 6-8hrs for debate. The council is heavily involved (and should b - despite what Pamela says) in pedagogy discussions. They key was the agreement between Ts and Govt is that discussions take place before anything is implemented - that was agreed to and signed off about 2 years ago. The Govt clearly broke that - which shows significant disrespect. Also, Seidenberg contradicts Pamela by saying we know the ingredients but don't yet know how to bake the cake (their analogy for reading instruction) - which shows how divided and contradictory different experts are.

Children and their families deserve scientifically developed evidence based educational instruction. Not what “feels” right for an individual teacher. Thank you for this conversation. Now can Victoria (and across Australia) also bring in a scientific empirically based care surrounding gender based issues and STOP undermining parental authority. The gender affirmation model is harming our kids.

While balanced literacy might deserve criticism about too little phonics/decoding, workshop model included direct instruction in a wide variety of fluency, vocabulary, and comprehension instruction, including metacognitive strategies. They practiced them in whole group mini-lessons, guided reading, and during conferences. The current so called "HQIM" may be a different distortion. "Leveled readers" are sometimes just books and kids were learning how to read and comprehend. Balanced literacy done well addressed rich text. Again, some aspects of "levels" can be problematic, but they aren't all bad. Genre and topics collections can be very effective and engaging.

Yes, Judy! Teachers have them for 7 hours! Come on!

Just love you two - Faith and Judy!

Thank you! Finally! Thank you for this! I've been studying and reading research on reading instruction for 20 years and while sound charts are great, the weird, intense focus on the mouth position, and teaching kids glides and fricatives (?) takes time away from instruction that really moves the needle and helps kids learn to read. Finally! Thank you!!!

We should let them listen- along, still annotating on paper, though.

We should let them listen- along, still annotating on paper, though.

Thank you for bottling up this story on the literacy view! Answers come when people start talking about solving problems!

I enjoyed listening to you and your guests discussion very much.

Thank you, Faith and Judy, for this wonderful episode, and of course all of these generous dads for sharing their (and their kids') stories. The research you usually clarify for us is SO important, but this type of conversation really puts it all in perspective as to WHY we need to get this right. Their experiences reflected many great points. I'll be sharing this with others. Tre's comments about supporting parents who may not have means or the background to address their student's difficulties rings true for me. But as a teacher I sometimes also see parents who do not want to agree to services for their student, and often that stems from their/a family member's bad educational experience in the past. Another reason schools need to educate parents about what has changed and get it right for all kids!

I LOVE this! As a therapist working on speech with not-yet-speaking children I would love to also link in with Ann, it is so important that we enable these children to learn skills they are absolutely capable of learning. Thanks for putting this together 🙂

I would like to have some of your free decodable books. I have a granddaughter in the 2nd grade. Thank you.

Fascinating discussion about such a critical topic, thank you and your guest!

Dr. Shanahan states that in the 1960s, "The argument over reading books was whether they should include African American characters in the stories. It wasn't an argument over what's the best way to teach reading." (min 26:45) The discussion about reading development was actually quite rigorous in the 1950s and 1960s. Two books come to mind, Rudolf Flesch's Why Johnny Can't Read-And What You Can Do About It (1955) and Jeanne Chall's Learning to Read the Great Debate (1967). Dr. Shanahan's knowledge of research is quite vast, so I'm wondering why he overlooked these seminal works?

How does a consumer know what to look for? District admins and those that purchase materials need to know what they are looking for and if the curriculum can deliver. It is a heavy lift for districts. Districts need to know how to teach reading and if the curriculum fits the bill. Not an easy job.

Absolutely Maggie is the best

Thank you for listening!!

Ep. 76 is a game-changer! Phonics for Students with Special Needs is such a crucial topic, and The Literacy View nailed it. The strategies shared are incredibly helpful and practical. Thank you for making a difference in education!"

😂

You should interview the ladies from Access Literacy.

I love watching the videos y’all put out. After moving from 3rd grade to 1st back in January I feel a rejuvenation in my spirit!❤

Our students who speak another language than English really struggle with rhyming. It's very difficult for them to "hear" the rhyme. And trying to explain that to parents, they also struggle to "hear" it. While rhyming is fun, and does help with some word recognition, I don't think it should be a mark on the child's learning report (it is on ours).

What an excellent discussion!

Finally. This is getting to the entrenched beliefs and practices that need to be scrutinized. Phonics not as it was, but as it should be. -Misty Oki

Like your positivity Faith

First learn letters and vowels Sounding out the words. And reading books aloud in class. I loved grade school.

In my learning reading in 1970 first grade, we all sounded out the words. I was reading at a 10th grade reading level in 3rd grade.

I'll be using CKLA next year.