วีดีโอ

Treeless saddles have their place. They typically still have seat gullets and pomal gullets, that make contact with the horse's withers and back. If the angle of contact is too narrow, you can still run into the same problems, because the gullets are stiff pieces of furniture. What you will need to do, is find the rate or angle of twist your horse has in its back, and find a tree that matches this. Then you will need to know how much rock your horse has in its back, as well as the width of its withers and spine. If you can match these, you will have better luck fitting your horse. Biggest saddle fitting issues is usually in the twist, rock, cap, flare, front gullet, and back gullet, but most people only ever talk about the front gullet width, and that is only one small part of the problem. If you don't know a good saddle fitter, you can try a flex tree saddle as they will flex around the horse, and bend into them. They wont last as long, because there is give in the tree. You won't be able to rope, or tie anything heavy to the saddle either, but they are fine of pleasure riding or trails, and such. They certainly have their place, but they will limit what you may wish to do with horse. Having a painless ride that supports your horse's back, is really what matters most, since the saddle can make or break the ride for your horse. I don't have a brand I enforce or anything, but getting with a good saddle fitter/saddle maker, who can explain these parts of the saddle fit to you, may be the information you need, that will turn your horse from being "hard to fit" to being an "easy to fit" horse. Since I started my saddle making journey, fitting horses became easy. Knowledge is nearly 95% of the battle.

If you are interested, make sure you look at the video I made about saddle fitting secrets the horse industry doesn't want you to know. In that video, I go into detail about these saddle tree fitting issues with demos, so you know what potential saddle issues to look for, when fitting a saddle to your horse. That might actually provide you with the information you need, to help your horse out. I wish you the best of luck, and if you have any questions please feel free to message back.

Thank you for replying! I will take a look. 😊

You are very welcome my dear!

You are very welcome!

I'm located in Wenatchee WA.

@@wa-kentaurians3050 No way!! I’m from Spokane but live in CA. Looking forward to more of your videos.😊

@@KingsMom831 well thank you so much! I have 2 other TH-cam channels, that stay much more active than this one. They are "That1FiddlePlayer" and "Basic Homesteading and Survival" so if you are interested in seeing more of my work, you are more than welcome to check out these other pages!

@@wa-kentaurians3050 That’s awesome! I’ll definitely check them out.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad I could be helpful!

I don't measure by using a fist. A true gullet measurement is to use a ruler. Gullet width and gullet hight, are 2 different measurements. I use my fist to get a good estimate on a saddle, when a ruler isn't available, and when you know the width of your hand, and have measured as many saddles as I have, you can easily estimate gullet height, width, and seat size, by your hand, but that estimate comes by experience, and again, it's an estimate, not a true "measurement."

Thank you so very much! I really appreciate the feedback!

Thank you for letting me know! I really appreciate it!

Did the same man make these acorns? I have been looking

Oh i cant send a pic... It says the american and 1300 on the back

@@monicaconstantin5625 bona Allen saddles were sold by many retailers who stamped their own business name on. I have seen sheplers and some other names. The saddle rivets near the riggin D,s are- often have the B over A trade mark...

Thanks! I sure try my best!

Yes, it is a little wonder tree, made by ralied. I didn't know who the maker was, but I'm glad to know it. Lots of ralied trees out there, but the older ones were junk. They make better ralied trees these days. Anybody can purchase a tree from ralide to make their saddles on, and lots of companies do it. The rigging set up is kind of up to the saddle maker. I've had to replace rear rigging panels in saddles before, so sometimes the rigging does change a from the original maker. I do like this saddle. I use it as a trainer, when I start horses, cause it is light weight, and holds the rider in well. Also, the saddle is well ballance. It's perfect for what I need it for. Thanks for the info on the maker. I appreciate it.

It's been a while since I've filmed a video for this channel, but sure, I am happy to give that a try.

Yes, I believe it is

Thank you very much!

You are very welcome

My videos are in more detail than others, so they take longer to do. I also strip saddles right down to the saddle tree, to bring you information, nobody else is willing to provide, and I do it for free. Its something you won't see in other saddle measuring videos, because I care enough about others, to give you the most information possible. This video would take even longer than 8 minutes if I were going to demonstrate how to measure the twist, rock, flare, and cap, and teach you how they play a big roll in saddle fitting, than what a gullet width is capable of doing. But if you don't really want to learn all about saddle fitting, you are welcome to look at other videos, that don't strip saddles to the tree, for your benefit and learning.

You are so welcome!

Thanks for your comments! I actually make my videos based on questions and conversations I've had with others, who unfortunately are not as lucky enough to consider any information, as unnecessary. It's fairly easy to find information on saddle seat measuring, and gullet measuring, so there really wasn't a need for me to make a video on it. However, the rest of the information provided here, is where most saddle fitting problems exist, and that is where information is lacking. If nobody provides information in addition to gullet and seat size, it would be a huge disservice for both horse and rider, and I've made a promise to provide as much information as I can, in a small space as possible, just to avoid information deprivation. I'm glad you are informed enough that you don't need some of the information, but I have to cater my videos to a wide variety of others, who may not even know the questions to ask, to get answers they need most. I will definitely keep your suggestions into consideration, when I make other videos in the future! Have a great one!

@@wa-kentaurians3050 Thank you for your response. I can certainly understand that others may be looking for information within the video that I may not have been. I do not want to come across as being critical or negative, overall your video was very informative and I greatly appreciated it. I’m happy that people such as yourself make videos so that when others need the information, it is available to them. I guess I only needed a few certain pieces of it and I felt that I had to watch the whole video to pick out the pieces that I needed. But please do not take anything as a negative, great video!

@@db37468 I'm not offended at all! I totally get it! I gotta admit, I've spent up to 4 hours watching the same types of videos, that said the same types of things, but honestly, I felt like I was missing something, so I kept looking. I came to one video that said the same stuff, but added 1 small thing different that was different. I'm sure other people thought was "extra" nonsense, but It was that 2 minute of information that solved my 4 hour dilemma! My goal is to reach a wide range of people, especially the ones who are dedicated to watching 4 hours of video, to get 1 small thing. Few people are as dedicated to finding answers to questions, they didn't realize they needed to ask, so those are the ones I want to reach most, as they are the ones who can teach others. I totally get where your coming from, and I take all incoming information under consideration. If I can keep growing too, that will also make me a better teacher. Thanks a ton for reaching out! It gives me the feedback I need, so I can better help others. Your feedback really is honestly appriciated.

You bet!

That is a great question. There is actually a saddle seat calculator for that! Typically, you can find out the size saddle you will need, by measuring your thigh from the back of your knee, to the back of your bum. Once you have that measurement, you will be able to find a saddle seat that will accommodate your bone structures. If that doesn't work, you can use a saddle seat calculator. This will take into consideration your height, weight, and thigh circumference at its widest point. From there, you will get a calculated estimate, for what sized saddle you will need. Here is a link. Generally with a Google search, you will also be able to find other saddle that are size equivalents. For instance if a rider needs a 17" English seat, they will also ride in a 15" western seat. The reason the measurements are different, is because the saddle trees are designed completely different, and used in completely different ways. Here is a link. Maybe you can get some good use out of this information. windswepthorse.com/Saddle-Seat-Calculator_ep_44-1.html

You are correct, and in this video I talk about why. Unfortunately, you can't measure a gullet on an English saddle, because an English saddle's tree bars, are flocked and padded. Gullet width is based on the space between the saddle bars, and you can't measure that space, when it's filled in with flocking. The only way to measure an English tree gullet, is to do it, when all the padding and flocking is removed. I use my fist to help me eye ball the saddle tree angles, gullet hight, and general width, but it's definitely not a gullet measurement. Since I've fit saddles so much, and find them in random places that never seem to have a measuring tape handy, I've learned to use my fist as a general guesstimate. It's not a measurement, but for someone as highly experienced at fitting saddles, and repairing them, it is a good general estimate, in a pinch.

Thanks

You are most welcome! I'm so glad I could help!

@@wa-kentaurians3050 explaining is still a chore😜. Just wish everybody knew the how to’s. Cheers

@@rwgoodship3653 a chore is an understatement! Thanks so much for your comments. Teaching really is a passion of mine. It's nice to see others are enthusiastic about learning, just as I have been. I firmly believe that you can't waste knowledge when you use it, and share it with others.

@@wa-kentaurians3050 a professor of mine used to say the same thing. ‘Knowledge gained is wasted if not shared. Cheers.

@@rwgoodship3653 that's the truth!

Glad you got some new information from this!

This is a tough question. There are ways to do it, but it's much easier to make a video and show you, than it will be to tell you about it. My experience, if an Arab has short withers, you may want to go with a tree, that has a 7inch gullet, and quite possibly a full quarter horse bar. If your horse has tall withers, a 7inch gullet, with a semi quarter bar, should be ok. Every horse is different, and since there are many other things that cause a saddle not to fit, the best thing to do, is to put the saddle on the horse. If I can make a video about this subject, I will definitely share it with you!

You are very welcome.

I'm not sure. I wish I knew!

You bet

I wish I knew. I think it is made on a ralide saddle tree, so maybe that can help point you in the right direction.

Hi I have the same question, did you ever find out about your saddle?

Thank you.

It drives me nuts as well.

This is a no name saddle. I have no idea who the maker is. Sorry.

Flex tree saddles have the same exact measuring points as all saddles in general. The cool thing about Flex tree saddles is they actually flex to the horses form, no mater what shaped back they have. That said, there is still a draw back, as not all flex tree saddles are flexible enough to fit all horses. Some Flex trees do a better job of adjusting to the horse than other types of Flex trees, because of their materials they were made of. Unfortunately, when buying a Flex tree saddle, your not going to know how truly flexible it really is, until you try it, so please follow standard saddle tree measurements, so you have a butter chance of fitting your horse. The only saddle I know of, that truly fits any horse, is a treeless saddle. Treeless saddles have no bars or trees you need to match to your horse, so you can literally feel the horse under you at all times. Best 100% fit all horses type of saddle on the market! Please do not use treeless or Flex tree saddles if you plan on doing any heavy work like roping. These saddles are not made for the hard stops and pulling weight limits necessary, to take down a steer, and will rip in half right out from under you. They are a great trail, endurance, horse training, barrel racing, and basic everyday riding saddle, but they are not made for ranch working. I hope this was helpful.

@@wa-kentaurians3050 thanks for that really great information!!!

Unfortunately there isn't one. To measure a tree in all its aspects properly, you need to know how to make a saddle tree. You will need to know, about the rock, flair, twist, and cap, and angles at which they are put together. There isn't a measurement for these, when the saddle tree is already inside a saddle. The flees, flocking, padding, and leather cover it up, and all will change how the saddle fits. The best way to know if a saddle is going to fit, is to put it on your horse, because only the saddle tree makers use measurements for cap, flair, twist, and rock, on every saddle bar of the trees they make.

Normally use a flexicurve or a gullet guage. depending on the saddle could also have an adjustable gullet bar which is simply taken out and swapped for the correct profile of your horse

Yes, that will give you a gullet measurement, but you still have the back gullet, twist, and flare, which create just as many saddle fitting issues as the gullet can. You can measure some points on a saddle tree, but not all of them. Since English saddles are flocked and padded, so unless you remove everything, you really can't measure most of these points.

If you want to measure a saddle tree, you will need to measure a Gullet width, back gullet width, rate of twist, rate of flair, seat size, and bar length. You can't measure all of those points when it's covered in saddle leather and padding. Do you want to measure a saddle tree, or do you just want to measure the 2 saddle gullets?

I agree, but your still not going to know at what rate the twist, rock, flair, cap, and back gullet are. Most all saddle fitting problems, are because of rock, twist, flair, and cap measurements on the bar itself. Knowing the gullet width, and bar angle will give you a great ball park range to fit a saddle to your horse, but it won't solve all saddle fitting problems. There is so much the horse industry doesn't tell you, just to sell you a product that it can be daunting at times. I hope this helps you understand a little more. It's so tough sometimes, I'm hoping what I have to share will help many horses and riders have a pleasant ride.

It’d be even better if they listed it on each saddle. Unfortunately saddles come in various size options (i.e. such as the bars and gullet), so listing it online may be difficult, not to mention not everyone is tech savvy. It’d be great if it was on a metal plaque that was placed under the stirrup flap.

Unfortunately there is not. Because the gullet is padded, there is no way to access the saddle tree, from the gullet points. Each saddle is flocked differently, some with more, or less padding, but the gullet width, is always based on the saddle tree, and a wide tree, may look narrow depending on how it is flocked. If the flocking is made with foam it will compress more than one with wool felt, so even that wont help you very much. Best way to find out it the gullet width by manufacture information, or by putting it on the horse, and check for pressure points or pinching. I have stuck my fist in so many different saddle gullets, that I can get a basic idea of how a saddle will fit my horse, by the angle at which it sits my fits, and the amount of space I have above it, as well as to the sides, but I have been on a lot of horses, and repaired a lot of saddles to gain this information.

you are very welcome. i have another video that goes into even more detail about saddle fitting, which also explains what the rock, twist, and flair is on a saddle. when there are saddle fitting issues, these things are usually the ones that cause it, since they really cant be measured by most people, unless they have specific saddle tree making tools for it. im glad this could help you! have a great day!

it is a cheap saddle, but it fits my horse, and the tree is sound. it will work for training other horses to saddle, and beginners riders. If it breaks Im not out a lot of money, and that is better than nothing. Man, you should have seen it, before I restored it! It looked really bad! its way better now, and its a great kicker!

thanks so much! It was at a tack sale, and nobody wanted it so it was priced to get rid of! i have 3 English saddles that way, one was actually free. one of the best saddles i found, to be honest. i can use it to train other horses, and if something happens to it, i wont really loose anything. its worth more now that its all restored at cleaned up.

@@wa-kentaurians3050 nice restore! I just picked up 2 English and a western. I will be restoring thanks for the inspiration

you are welcome! please also refer to the "saddle fitting secrets the horse industry doesn't want you to know." there is even more information about saddle bars, and how they work to fit on your horses back. in that video, it is discuses what a rock, twist, flare, and cap are, as well as where and why they are important to saddle fitting. im glad you found this video helpful.

You bet my friend!