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Clip gain like this is a really nice way to level out things for sure, though you can still use 2 compressors after this! Another neat tool for a similar result is Waves Vocal Rider - it has a similar result to clip gain, but is much less time consuming - it's a great option for things like backing vocals

Great question! I would say in pop/rock it's very common to see this level of compression, and potentially much more! In big studios it's pretty common practice to compress on the way in while you're recording. Sometimes even through a 2 stage hardware chain just like this, sometimes just one compressor like a distressor or CL1B. 5-15dB would be pretty normal on the way in Then absolutely, 10-15dB or more in the box, plus often another stage of compression at the vocal bus, then likely more still on the master with everything else, can easily add up to a total 40dB compression on a vocal before it even hits a limiter, and that's not considering things like clip gain or fader riding which effectively act like compressors too! Of course you're right, it does need to sound good, and for sure 40dBs of vocal compression won't suit every mix. If it's a huge in your face pop or rock track then yep, the vocal is going to need to be pretty smashed to hold up against the other elements but in a quieter, more dynamic track you would be able to get away with a more dynamic vocal. I think there's an important skill, which isn't the easiest to develop, which is being able to hear when something needs more compression, but also, importantly when something is over compressed - there's a way that compression can start to "choke" a vocal when pushed too hard, and getting 40dBs of compression to sound good is a real balancing act of all those different compression stages

@@MoonshiftAudio-ft7ohThis is great, thank you so much!

I hear you Pete! In a way I respect that the studio were open that your track needed more work at the mix stage, I think some mastering engineers out there would just take the money and do the master, though it's a bit off that they refused to tell you what the issues were. £850 is getting to the more expensive end of mixing too I'd say. It is a tough one when budgets start to get in the way of creative processes. The good news is that you can learn a lot yourself these days. It takes time and practice, but you can get there!

Thanks. I am indeed trying to learn as much as I can so that I can do best mix possible in home studio then send it for professional tweaking etc. hopefully that saves time in studio and ultimately costs. 👌

@@peteturn1782 For sure! That will definitely help with the costs. One option to consider if you're starting to get there with your mixes, but aren't quite there would be "stem mastering" - instead of giving the engineer every individual audio track you would supply just the stems of your track (eg drums, bass, vocals). This gives the engineer more control over the balance than just mastering, but is much more affordable than a full mix. To give you an idea of price I would expect to charge around £120-150 for this, which is I'd say indicative of the market rate :)

This probably isn't the answer you're looking for, but honestly I wouldn't put a vocal on top of this track as it currently sits. The synth voices part takes up all the space that an actual sung vocal would, both in the arrangement, as well as in the frequency ranges in the mix so any vocal would really be fighting for space. If you took out the vocal synth then there would be loads of space for a sung vocal, and actually you'd have quite a lot of freedom because the rhythmic parts in the backing track are quite steady. Main point though would be to make sure your backing track leaves plenty of space for a vocal

I'm working on one actually! I also did one about how to make a track like Overmono recently, which is pretty garagey th-cam.com/video/t5f9PuzGqPc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=kVZTyCJbJs3lkLE5

@@MoonshiftAudio-ft7oh nice! i use cubase and ableton but cubase can make some nasty garage 2! special for drums with the beatdesigner. ohh nice overmono is dope! il check that video out. how you like cubase for sounddesign? i think cubase lacks alot of tools for sounddesign and for that i use ableton but got alot of third party plugins on the sounddesign part fot it.

@@lX-NDR I started off using cubase 20 years ago so it's the one I know the best. I did move to Ableton for a while and there are some things I really liked in it. The way it deals with time stretching is awesome, and I really like the way you can modulate almost anything, which is great for sound design. I don't like Ableton for recording though, and for mixing I really missed some of the Cubase features - not having a proper mixer window was the real killer for me so I ended up moving back to Cubase mostly. I still use Ableton sometimes though

@@MoonshiftAudio-ft7oh yeah those are my pro's and cons to. the mixer of cubase is super but i do hope they get more tools like better granular..spectral shapers..harmony tools like ableton. i use the max4live alot from suite wich opens up a world. i heard bitwig is cubase and ableton in one. im curious about that to.

@@lX-NDR Nice yeah I've never looked at Bitwig

Thanks Alex!

Hey! I've put a full playthough at the start of this week's video where I look at the mixdown. It just came out - th-cam.com/video/wNV59zVab8s/w-d-xo.html

Yeah I use Ableton as well. I moved to it for my main DAW for a while, but I really didn't like it much for mixing so I ended up back with Cubase. It's so fully featured I love it

Thanks for this! I didn't realise that was the birth of gated reverb - great knowledge!

@@officialkinoco too good not to share!

Great T too!👍

Had to look that up - I hear what you mean! Man so much great jungle in 90s video game soundtracks

Yes! 100% Using reference tracks is a great way to keep you perspective, and is also important for many other reasons. There's so much there that I've got a whole video planned just on the subject of reference tracks

Glad it was helpful!

thanks! I'm definitey with you on those 2 points, although I do love an LA-2A on some bass sources too

Glad you liked it!

haha thanks!

@@MoonshiftAudio-ft7ohthe video was great as well. Will definitely be buying that kontakt kit!

@@davida1310 yeah they really nailed that sound there

@@vitaliivostrykov5173 yeah that bug has been there for a while for me now. I think it might be something to do with the Apple silicone as it used to work fine on my previous computer

@@ThreadBomb weird! Well thanks for the support anyway 🙂

@@iyoseioshv549 yeah that's a really nice one to tighten up your mix sometimes. Glad you found it useful!

Hey thanks! Glad you found it helpful. I did a similar one on delays if you're interested th-cam.com/video/7L_zWJtIt6o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-Ecl99HRar9rJm-D

I hear you, and if that de esser was on the actual vocal I'd agree. When processing just the reverb returns you can be much more heavy handed with things like this - the actual s is completely unaffected in the dry signal so you don't have to worry about your vocal sounding lispy like that

Yeah, I go heavy with the de-ess on harmonies as well. Only really need to hear the consonants on the main vocal

@@cobraofearthyep same!

Haha yep I hear you. I also find the mid band a lot more bearable. For this video I was mostly trying to demonstrate the issues you can get with Fresh Air so was using the high band (well the whole plugin tbh) a lot more than I would normally. Like you, it's rare that I use Fresh Air, and even rarer that I turn the high band up at all!

@@MoonshiftAudio-ft7oh yep i use it for the mid i only move the high by like 3 maximum

Hey thanks! I'm always looking for ideas for new videos so let me know if there's another artist you'd like to a tutorial on

it's called Arthurius. glad you enjoyed the video :)

Hey David! Yeah I totally agree - Serum is particularly bad when you use the unison, it really pans the oscillators out which isn't great for the low end. In this patch the second oscillator is unaffected by the LFO and isn't using any unison so it stays central which helps the low end stay solid. I actually have another video where I go into a bit of detail about how you can (and can't) have wide bass without encountering phase issues th-cam.com/video/NWFoHKIGNZs/w-d-xo.html

Totally agree! It's become a bit of a cliche but I really could do 90% of what I do with stock plugins. There are a couple I couldn't do without, and a couple more that I really love because of the workflow but tbh it's mostly about developing your ear and learning to hear what a mix needs

Yeah that sounds about right to me. I think I could definitely use Nova as my main EQ if needed, I'd get used to the behaviour pretty quickly but for me the thing that makes Pro-Q3 so indispensible is the workflow - it's so quick and intuitive I never have to stop and think about what I'm doing. Will have to check out Slick EQ - sounds great!

Yep I'd say that's a pretty good summary. Reverb in particular is an area where I've yet to find many free plugins that really do it for me. There are usually some good stock reverbs in most DAWs though which is great

My ol lady says she doesnt mind but im pretty sure i drive her bat shit crazy having to hear me play 4 seconds loops over and over and over LOL

Thanks, glad you like it! There are a few different ways you can deal with that. In this case by chopping out quite a few bits of the main hat loop it didn't really clash with the shaker loop any more, but if I'd wanted to keep both of them running through the whole track it would have been an issue. The easiest solution is just to pick loops that fit well together, or program in patterns yourself using samples rather than loops, but if you find a couple of loops that you really like but don't quite fit timing wise you can use audio quantisation to line them up. It can be a little bit fiddly but it usually works, unless they are way out in which case you can start hearing time stretch artifacts but usually it's fine

You're so welcome! Thanks for letting me share the session with everyone, it's so great to be able to go through a full commercial project like this

you know - I think I did! good spot

I hear where you're coming from but the differences in the gain process will be minute, and I would argue almost imperceptible to the human ear. Definitely would not explain the differences we hear in these null tests. The information in the highs that you hear in the result is absolutely typical of what I'd expect to hear from compression artifacts. I agree that the test isn't perfect, but I'm happy that it still proves beyond doubt that there's compression on playback from these platforms

The vocals are so good!!!!

@@luct Oh, thank you! That made my day. 😊

The thanks go both ways Kinoco, your vocal really made this track 🙏