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Thanks! There are quite a few differences. The advantage of doing it in Dolby Atmos: you can play the end result (of the initial Dolby Atmos mix) on lots of different compatible devices and home theaters, whereas ambisonics is more specific and probably destined for binaural via headphones (there are no modern home theater amps with ambisonics decoding AFAIK). The disadvantage of going the Dolby Atmos route first: you don't have full spherical resolution. Dolby Atmos has no speakers below ear level (LFE not counting). But mixing directly in ambisonics makes more sense, when you're doing it for 360 VR playback with headtracking. There are plenty of different tools and options available. Experimenting with them is fun and the goal of what I do on this channel. I hope this makes sense.

@@Listento360 Thanks for the reply! Keep up the good work :)

There will be more 360 music at some point, but there’s music in nature and mechanics too 😉

Thanks!

Hi, you can change the "size" of an object, which basically means that you're sending the sound to multiple speakers in the neighbourhood of the panning possition. Max size is to all speakers then. However in a film mix this is a rather "boring" way to make a big explosion impactful. It sounds as "fat mono". It will work much better if you sound design the explosion with multiple elements in multiple speaker locations and using things like natural reflections and delay. I demonstrate this at 4min in the Dolby Atmos Object Demo 2 here: th-cam.com/video/eiTHfouxx2U/w-d-xo.html

@@Listento360 Thanks for the very useful info. I was curious if this exists, but couldn't find any information that was public. As i also don't have access to the software as well.

Upon checking Fri 28th June 2024 the 8K 60fps version is now available.

I edited the video in a 8K60fps Premiere project to keep the max possible resolution. YT nowadays doesn't accept 5.7K resolutions anymore (the max res at 60fps for Insta360 X4), they do either 4K or 8K. So I uploaded an 8K version. But there are a lot of weird things happening with YT and 360 videos lately: spatial audio seems to be quite broken on desktop browsers, whereas the spatial audio on Quest 3 QT VR seems to work. Most of my older 8K videos (done with Insta360Pro), seem to be 4K max resolution now. With some of them the spatial audio still works. I think they have been re-rendering content to new formats and broke things in the process. Spatial audio with headlocked stereo also doesn't work anymore etc. On what hardware/software were you watching?

Thanks!

That is a bit much to go into detail here, but if you would like to read more about this, here are some links: www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/ (for speaker setups), professional.dolby.com/siteassets/content-creation/dolby-atmos/dolby_atmos_renderer_guide.pdf (page 256 goes into more detail on the content side of things), manuals.marantz.com/AV8805/NA/EN/download.php?filename=/AV8805/NA/EN/pdf/AV8805_NA_EN.pdf (page 53 onwards for 7.1 connections and options, page 185 onwards about the dynamic range I talked about in the thread below). Enjoy reading!

I’m not sure I understand your question. Can you elaborate please?

@@Listento360 do you have a page for denon receivers atmos playback

@@msoles30 I'm using Marantz myself (but it is the same software basically). I don't know where you are located but on this page there is a "Help me choose" for the Denon AV receivers where you can select your setup: www.denon.com/en-us/category-pages/about-denon-av-receivers.html

It folds down to the front and surround channels according downmix parameters chosen in the mix/mastering.

I don't use Tidal myself, but my educated guess would be that Tidal plays back to the receiver with a Dialnorm of around -18 (the recommended mix level for music), when the dialnorm was implemented that way during authoring. Blu-Rays are historically authored mostly with DialNorm -31, because the Dialnorm system was unfortunately historically not implemented as intended by Dolby. Dialnorm -31 is no level change on playback. Dialnorm -18 is 13dB lower playback on the receiver side, compared to the same master playing at Dialnorm -31 (the difference between 31-18=13dB). CD masters (and thus normal stereo songs on streaming) didn't use Dialnorm as a format and thus are always -31 (no level change against master). On top of that CDs there was the loudness war which made average levels of song masters getting higher over the years (compare average levels of songs from the 60's, 70's, 80's against later decades and you see what I mean). The idea of Dialnorm back in the day when it was implemented for ac3 5.1 Dolby Digital authoring of DVDs and DD broadcasting, was to have consistent (dialog) levels between content (be it films, music, news broadcasting,...) by implementing a Dialnorm parameter that would set the playback level at the consumer end, providing an average level of speech/dialog between programming content. A non-dynamic all speech newsbroadcast, commercial or loud CD master would get a Dialnorm that was "higher" -12 for example, a dynamic film for theatrical home release for example Dialnorm -27 and a very dynamic classical concert would be Dialnorm -31. On average you wouldn't have to turn your receiver volume up and down, as the Dialnorm would assure a consistent average level keeping enough headroom for loud parts in the mix (for example explosions in films, or high level dynamic concert parts). On the consumer side a user could also turn on "night mode" or "Dynamic Range Reduction" (different companies had different names and implementations) in the receiver, which would reduce the dynamics in the program, making it possible to listen dynamic content without waking the neighbours. The way this dynamic reduction worked could be implemented during the content authoring. Dialnorm was a GREAT idea!!!...until nobody used it the way it was meant to be (due to lack of understanding or reasons trying to be louder than the "other" program). So for years most DVD were released with the default -27 Dialnorm or -31 so it would be louder. Most Blu-Rays are -31 as that would be 4dB louder and thus sound "better" than -27 Dialnorm DVDs :-) Now Blu-Rays also had Dolby TrueHD which was better than than DVD's Dolby ac3 (not talking about DTS here that also had a better format for Blu-Rays). Back to Tidal and Dialnorm, where the original Dialnorm idea is re-introduced again, but we now have a situation where CDmasters are basically -31 (because of no Dialnorm so no level change) and new Dolby Atmos content is sitting with Dialnorm around -18 (being 13dB lower on playback on a receiver implementing the Dialnorm playback). This 13dB difference can be quite a shock when going from a Dolby Atmos playback to a stereo song, when no level compensation is done. Now all the streaming platforms (Spotify, Apple, TH-cam and normally also Tidal) are implementing level systems that try to bring back that average level listening idea by implementing LUFS with a levels of between -14 and -16. LUFS is also a way of measuring average levels and the idea is to bring down super loud masters compared to more dynamic music, so that both have the same level on average. For new content they ask to deliver at those -14 to -16 LUFS levels. Older content is brought down to those levels if implemente (Apple's Sound Check for example). It is these implementations that vary and can cause level variances. There are a lot of variables and I'm not going into all the details here (it is a can of worms :-), but it sort of a situation where we have an "old" and "new" idea of level implementation and since both ideas exist at the same time, you still have to keep your remote control near you for volume riding :-)

@@Listento360 so it is normal for streaming movies to mixed louder than atmos music

@@msoles30 streaming movies are not mixed louder than Atmos music at the source side (the audio master). They are normally more dynamic and on average quieter than Atmos Music. By applying a lower Dialnorm to movies on the authoring side (-27 for example), the playback on your receiver will be 9 dB louder than something that had a Dialnorm of -18 attached to it, such as authored Dolby Atmos Music might have. But since the original mix of the movie was more quiet than the music (on a digital scale level), the end result at you receiver should be that the music and the streaming movie should feel to have the same average levels. But it all goes wrong if the attached Dialnorms during authoring don't represent the correct values for the level of that certain master they are attached to. So if a loud film has Dialnorm -31 (which would be too low for that film) and a dynamically mixed music track would have Dialnorm -18, the movie might end up sounding louder on your receiver when the Dialnorm is applied on the playback by you receiver (effectively turning the music 18dB down compared to full scale playback). Now if you then take a CD and don't change your volume playback level, chances are you end up with very loud levels, as that CD doesn't have Dialnorm and your receiver will play it back at full level, which would be about 18 dB louder playback than the Dolby Atmos music your receiver was playing back applying Dialnorm (and thus reducing the level on playback). This is all quite difficult to explain, but I hope it makes sense...

@@Listento360 so our receivers is making it sound low is it any settings on the avr besides the dynamic range settings to turn off for a louder volume

@@msoles30 sorry for the late reply, very busy with projects here ;-) I'm afraid you can't change anything in the receivers to "override" dialnorm. What you could do is put lower gain settings for sources that don't have Dialnorm (such as CD players), but that still doesn't help for every situation of changing levels from different content on the same source (such as your Tidal example)... But if somebody has a solution I surely want to hear about it ;-)

Correct 😊

This video is encoded for VR (you can move the picture and "look around" although there's nothing to see outside the main screen in this particular video, there are a lot of real 360 videos on this channel). The audio is encoded in ambisonics for VR playback, so audio will follow the direction you are looking at. If you are getting 5.1 it means your device or computer is decoding the ambisonics into 5.1 somehow. To listen to the Dolby Atmos encoded version, you need to download the mp4 mentioned in the description (drive.google.com/file/d/1ewYdWzzZHHXtHWfqcXPBAYdklNhm_taT/view). Maybe you were playing that one? It is DD+ encoded with Atmos, and it will play back 5.1 on non-Dolby Atmos systems. Hope this helps.

@@Listento360 I'm watching on TH-cam and getting 5.1 and the VR "look around" directional audio works, just at 5.1. Curiously, what I think are your surround left/right channels come in as left/right back channels and my surround channels don't seem to be active... so it's 5.1, but thinking the back channels are the surround channels. I honestly wasn't aware of this VR ambisonics before today. That seems to be what is allowing a 5.1 channel output on TH-cam. Amazed.

@@Listento360 Adding to that last response, when I have 5.1 speaker configuration selected in Windows 10, I get the L/R surround as I think you intended. When I select 7.1 speaker configuration in Windows 10, that is when it pops the surrounds to back surrounds. I normally run 7.1 or Dolby Atmos for Home Theater, so that is why I was hearing in the surround backs. I guess something isn't translating perfectly with the bed channels up to 7.1, at least via TH-cam 360. I'm amazed because I'm doing this on Windows, in Chrome browser, which has never supported anything beyond stereo output.

for VR TH-cam can encode a maximum of 4 channel (1st order) Ambisonics + 2 extra headlocked channels. I have an example with headlocked audio on this YT channel as well. As you say and to my knowledge YT can't do pure 5.1 audio. But probably the Ambisonics encoded content can be decoded as 5.1 in your Windows configuration. This Dolby Atmos YT vidwo was ambisonics encoded from the original Dolby Atmos master. If you'd like to check the Dolby Atmos version, you need to download and play the mp4, as I mentioned. That will scale to your Dolby Atmos speaker setup. Thanks for your experiments!

@@Listento360 Ok - correction, I'm getting four channel audio. I wasn't getting a center channel from any of your videos, but absolutely front left/right and a surround left/right which seems dependent on what I set for my speaker configuration in Windows (and also seems to get confused about whether it places that L/R surround on the surrounds or backs). No LFE either, I was just assuming it was 5.1, but it's just the four channels which is still very cool.

Thanks! The mp4 audio should be recognised by your (Atmos capable) home theater system as a Dolby Atmos stream (DD+). I don't have experience with a Plex, but from a quick internet search could it be that you haven't put it to the "Passthrough Codecs" setting?

@@Listento360 I appreciate the reply. Passthrough was already set. I did try with Kodi and also direct USB to the TV without luck. I'll continue to work on it. Maybe there is something at the receiver level.

In the Dolby Atmos renderer I exported a 1st Order Ambisonics version of the Dolby Atmos mix, which makes it possible to add to the 360 video and have the audio tracking the movements of the video (headtracking if you're watching it with a headset). In the beginning of Dolby Atmos there was also a Dolby Atmos VR part (now discontinued). Dolby Atmos partnered with Jaunt at the time for VR experiences (you can find more information on this on various webpages).

@@Listento360 I found that Ambiosonics is another surround sound format. Does Dolby Atmos renderer support it?

@@HM204DTA The Dolby Atmos renderer supports AmbiX as an export format in the re-renders. The beds and objects are then converted to 1st Order Ambisonics, which is a completely different format from Dolby Atmos. Ambisonics (1st and higher order) is nowadays used a lot for spatial audio on VR/360 videos such as the ones on this YT channel.

yes, this is expected as I mention in the video: the Top Middle will play out of Top Front and Top Rear at the same time in a 7.1.4 or 5.1.4 or 5.2.4 system like yours. As there is no physical Top Middle speaker the signal will play as a "phantom centre" between the Top Front and Top Rear speakers. Thanks for trying the Dolby Atmos file.

it mentions "Made in the UK" however 🙂

Hi Felix, I just checked my video on an iPhone during the headlocked part and when moving around everything seems normal; the ambisonics recording of the environment pans around when you move the picture and the headlocked voice stays locked in the stereo picture. Could it be that your issue has to do with the playback platform? I vaguely remember someone mentioning issues with Android devices. I'm very busy with other projects right now and don't have time to post new videos at the moment, but will come back in the future.

@@Listento360 After hearing that it sounds normal on your end, I recalled that TH-cam streams audio in two different formats, m4a and weba. I know that weba is the format streamed by default on most browsers and systems, so I enabled an extension that forces m4a to be streamed. Sure enough, the sound was normal on this video, along with all my videos that seemed broken. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

Thanks!

11.1.4 you wish no one with a 11.1.4 system would be using a youtube video

Thanks! I currently don't have time to make more videos, but be sure to come back in the future.

Thanks!

Thanks! Not an uncompressed file, but you can download the DD+ Dolby Atmos file of Demo2 here: drive.google.com/file/d/1f_W5It4_FoDY3sGzPzUHRqMIqX2SHJoh/view