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A lot of the changes seemed to 'TBC-ify' classic wow. Lots of changes solely for raid viability which is against the loreful class flavour design of classic. Sort of weird and convoluted talents that feel messy like the tank druid talents and hunter melee stuff. Overall was not a fan despite some of the new talents being interesting.

I haven't played Turtle WoW in a while, will the current devs actually make big changes in a timely manner? Performance wise Paladins seem "fine" but most of these design choices seem good but absolutely undercooked. Taking away damage from Holy Shock is a criminally bad decision, and the melee healer style I think is perfect, but seems absolute trash in practice, would love to see it reworked to be a true melee healer. CS and HS sharing a cooldown just seems very silly.

I just joined the server and learning that Holy shock can't deal damage broke me. Holy paladins needed that just to be able to farm decently. If they didn't like the pvp performance of it then just have the damage it derals to players lowered to 50% of the value. Also Illumination and divine favor nerf sucks.. But I can't speak to that because I have no idea what end game looks like. I do have plenty of experience with all 3 specializations in vanilla, classic, and up to Cataclysm.. I can say that giving Paladin MORE RNG made me sick. I hope they fix this before I get to 60 lmao. All of these nerfs to endgame paladin hit lower levels so much harder than they should.

For Holy Shock, I'm thinking they could halve its mana cost, but then increases the mana cost by +75% for 6s each time it procs, stacking up to 3 times? If instead it doesn't proc, it would instead increase it's proc chance by +33% for ~12 sec, again stacking 3 times? Maybe I misunderstood the issue. For Righteous Strikes, I'm thinking to add in a bit where if it misses, the cooldown is halved. For Seal of Command, I never properly understood the role that it was supposed to play. It seemed to me that Seal of Command and Seal of Righteousness were basically filling the same role, where the former was slightly stronger but had more RNG. That never felt good to me? If it were me, I'd love it if Judgement of Command instead had an effect like "all members of your party have a 70% on their next next melee or ranged attack to strike a second time, dealing 70% damage as Holy damage." This would give Seal of Command a clear purpose, and would cement Retribution more firmly into a DPS-support role. Well, but I haven't played Ret on TWoW, so I'm just spitballing :)

They really do need to tune questing/older dungeon and raids to be a bit tougher with the new class changes. 1.12 already nerfed content and made classes stronger, they can't make it too easy.

22:00 i think they should have put the "shield bash" on holy shield and removed the damage from sucessful blocks - so that that holdy shield would be a demand holy damage with increased threat and x amount of black chance for y seconds. And then just removed the damage on bulwark.

Great video! but what do you mean by paladins mana pool being shrunken at 14:50? did they nerf baseline mana on paladins?

I was in that ES raid :V

Windfury totem is and has always been a balance issue in vanilla. It has to be reworked to be a cooldown, much like fire nova totem. They need to make it last like 30 sec and put it on a 5min cooldown. They need to make it work on ranged attacks too. The reason warriors and rogues skyrocket past hunters in scaling is because of all the access they have to extra procs, multi hit and haste which hunter does not have... It also makes enhancement Shamans a worse user of their signature ability, why be an enh shaman when you can be a healer and buff a warrior with windfury instead?.

Should i use for Retri - Seal of command or seal of crusader?

Agreed holy shock no cd is a mana burn, BUT hehe, is pretty good in pvp. Im using a hybrid spec holy shield + holy shock with 100% reset cd, agree takes a bunch of mana but pots in bgs are almost free

So spellret = dead?

tried playing trans wow but they tried to turn me into a girl. no thanks!

That is one GEARED PALA holy crap

you're the perfect example of a guy who finds a way to complain even tho overall the changes have been good, finds very picky non matter things to complain about, even though specs feel better to use (with holy as maybe an exception) you'll find a way how they could have been done better (with the emphasize on talking about last prot talent, which is perfectly fine and better to have than to not have at all, as it was a slap in the face lol)

Wish player base was bigger so you could actually do dungeons while leveling

Wish crusaderstrike had 4 sec cd and holy 8 sec. Not sharing cds. Also make the healing a stacking buff that gets used when using consecreation making it also heal the stored amount

So pissed that Shield Specialization doesn't regen mana anymore.. Like at all! Edit: prot palad don't gain ANY mana from blocking now, at all!

Imp Seal of Righteousness is buffed as the %10 damage bonus is applied not only to the base damage but to the total value after spell power.

It's probably because I've always looked through the lens of more of a rpg/adventure then mid max, but I like bulwark of the righteous, but I see it as a defensive cd that just so happens to also do damage.

They should really look at nighthold in legion healing as a paladin, without a doubt my best time healing as a paladin.

saw you in game, and said damn that gear, new to Turtle playing prot Pala, new to Prot pala in classic in general, loving it so far. I do prefer the 6 sec cd and shared cd on holystrike/Crusader. Looking forward - only Lv. 53 atm so getting there, keep up the good videos!

Remember guys, this is my feedback, don't feel the need to tie yourself to it or against it. Voice yours as well! Content: 0:00 - Intro & Disclaimers 1:20 - Holy 12:31 - Protection 23:00 - Retribution 29:21 - Summarized & Recommendation

I was sceptical of this patch before it came out. I thought they are making the same mistake as blizz when trying to change too much at once. But I was wrong, I quite enjoy the Prot Warri and the Affli Warlock at the moment. I liked what I heard from other classes too, like the rouge combo point retention when switching targets.

I've never played Turtle WoW. How changed is the game compared to regular vanilla? I know there's tents and all that, but what is the endgame like? Are worldbosses still controlled by a small group of people 24/7 camping them, raids cost 100gold per run because of the crazy amount of consumes and you need to grab worldbuffs for each raid? Mostly from a PVE perspective I mean. And how's endgame balance? Some of the classes sound neat, but I wonder if each spec is now truly viable in some way. Thanks for any replies!

How can you get windfury as a pally? Isnt pally alliance and sham horde?

Gnome is bis, becaue of vibez. Vibez beat all!

Any advice for choosing a class? I have been struggling with choice paralysis and class hopping for a long time 😢 I mainly played DPS before, but I'm thinking of branching out, but I'm not sure

you said to go to the npc's in blackrock and ratchet. Where exactly are these npcs located?

grown up ? we are all boomer kids here .what are you on about ?

But warriors can't get victory rush :(

The next big thing for me with turtle will be to balance racials they are unbalanced as he'll

for me as outsider pov: for being Private Server (aka low pol ) the complain going to see like a lot but is just really small minority. but i don't know, the balance change is always hot topic there people want the class change and some other want to stay the same.

imagine a paladin player complaining....paladins have been overpowered since the server opened why do you think 80 percent of the pop is paladins.

There are some great changes to the Holy and Protection trees for Paladin, but eliminating Iconic builds such as Shockadin and Reck-bomb so that all 3 trees are using Holy Strike and/or Crusader Strike is quite disappointing. Why do all three trees need to play like Ret?

SoD class changes = Blizzard bad, retail minus, dog shit devs! Turtle class changes = omg they are giving us the true Classic+ this is amazing

I’ll never understand why private servers try to balance classic by just making the classes more like TBC. Just make the classes the TBC classes, they’re overall better and more fun. Problem solved.

I think they shouldn't touch pvp so much. The fun part about elemental was the burst, shadowpriest 3 second stun, etc. And the horde racial nerfs made no sense

appreciate the twow content! TWOW HYPE TWOW HYPE

best wow experience, period🎉

90% of the class changes are stuffing all your points into 1 tree due to bloat and not split trees due to all the "new" talents that make a difference due to "core identity" for said specs are in the latter halves so you cant utilize good talents in alternate spec trees causing situations where stuff like affliction warlock it is better to ignore dark harvest entirely still after the update because crit damage is better than haste stacking and reducing durations on dots ruin on warlocks that are not fire spec is basically a requirement because our filler is shadowbolt and that is not going to change unless they gigabuff drain soul and currently its mid at best so whoever did the warlock stuff needs to look at it again and it frustrates me as someone that LOVES sm/ruin lock i love the rng into shadowbolts off nightfall procs and i was hype that dark harvest would proc nightfall but when i saw that they didnt move ruin i knew that dark harvest is a dead capstone because of ruin move ruin up 1 row and let people decide over shadowburn or ruin instead and then we can take the capstone and still enjoy the gameplay loop you obviously want us to play without sacrificing a 50% dmg increase on our shadowbolt nightfall procs PS: the logic they give is "we want to let the other warlock specs not be shadowbolt spam" but is they give us a half baked drain soul as our "spammable" shadowbolt is still better by ignoring dark harvest and taking ruin :)

Class changes are fine, but I can't use them because server performance died and shat itself. I am getting 16 frames in Naxx on a 4080S FFS.

"Warrior, Hunter , Paladin" my personally holy trinity classes to play , hard for me to venture out of thise classes, they just the most fun to play as , tho Priest MC dose seem fun to troll in pvp , make people fall off cliffs 😅

The problem isn't bugs or the imbalances but the fact that this update changes the identity of some classes, this creates a dangerous precedent for the future. Nerfing something will only make the players have less fun with that, the solution should always be to buff the things lagging behind. A good example is frost mage, the AOE that defined this spec was made impossible in favor of buffing the dungeon/raid performance. Btw, you sayed that constructive criticism is always welcome, but the turtle wow team doesn't seem to think the same way since they have no problem deleting those comments on their TH-cam channel.

You say controversy, I say people complaining at any sort of change as usual. Sure it's not perfect, there are things I don't like, and giving Nelf priests a bow while making wands 100x better was a bad idea, but it's better than not changing anything at all. What doesn't work can always be adjusted later. Constructive criticism beats complaining 100% of the time. In any case, the devs here are fans like us, not a greedy careless company.

Please let them know to not remove shockadins, please!

LONG LIVE TURTLE WOW

Been a solid patch overall. Bar holy pally iv enjoyed the other specs and classes so far. Dont hav a shaman yet but otherwise id say solid improvement

Nice video! What pfui layout do you use? Its super clean 👌