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Thanks for the compliment, and I hope the team/crew get something out of it. Enjoy your row in the morning. Where are you guys based?

Haha.. Ok but I just had a look and he is 3cm shorter than van Dorp and Ziedler. Not that many top rowers (like those 2) don't both have their own unusual quirks... What a nightmare for coaches... "Dont do that". Athlete, "But the fastest guy in the world does it..." Anyway. Thanks for the comment. Be sure to look out for the series I am going to do on "Why NOT to row like an Olympian".

Much appreciated. I'm just getting started, so glad to have you as part of the tribe!

Thanks Hans, and you are right. A drill should always be considered and exaggeration of the thing that you are trying to achieve. I am all in favour of learning to force a backsplash, and then, once you have one, trying to almost get rid of it by making it smaller through being more precise in the placement. If you don't have one at all then you have started to drive to early, you have not connected, and the blade is moving in the direction of the water. Please check out our vid on The Placement - th-cam.com/video/NKdkgN9I8bw/w-d-xo.html

Thanks for the suggestion. I certainly will. I had planned for one. Please look out for it. Will be called Rainbowing.

I hope you saw my Rainbowing vid :-)

Thanks for the question Alex. I see how you have understood what I was saying so glad I get to clarify here. Not sure how to make this a short answer, but here goes. If your hand was moving from left to right to tap the wheel along then that would be the drive, moving your hand back right to left would be the recovery. So imagine your hand is now all the way to the left, that would be your max reach, and where you want to try connect. As your hand moves from max reach till the time it touches the wheel, is the same as the distance you would be rowing the blade in by. If translated to the boat and the rower, that movement would only be possible by starting to push on the foitplate. In the case of the wheel it has no negative effect on the speed because you are standing on the floor outside the system of the wheel. In the boat any time spent with pressure on the foitplate, while the blade is not connected and locked in, will result in you pushing the boat backwards (check). So although we want our strake to feel light and tappy, we still have to let the blade reach into the water, like a swimmer does with his arm, before we add foitplate pressure. With jazz hands this is unavoidable. Hope that makes sense

No sir... Thank you. Hope you are well.

Thank God, i am well. Great video once again Kev. It's much appreciated 👏

Thanks for the positive comment and welcome to the tribe!

Much appreciated! This person that was crazy enough to say you were crazy... what did they suggest in terms of breathing?

Hey. Thanks for the comment. Tell me more about the inward pulling muscles you mentioned. I just want to make sure I understand

Hi Kevin. Really sorry I missed your comment. I just Googled Isaac Hays. Nobody row that smooth! Just in terms of your coaches comment, the only problem with that is the water is moving and the slot is moving with it. Trying to place it in the slot without adding pressure to the footboard is pretty much impossible, so the slot has to open up into a bit of a hole. Staying light in the hands helps you get a bit closer to Isaac Hays though :-)

Agreed my friend. No question that you need to start taking the blade out. We just don't believe that its efficient to have it still square as the bottom of the spoon comes out. Please tell us more about the vacuum you mentioned. Sounds interesting.

Try thinking of the extraction motion as the path of a conveyor belt around a turn. THe first part of the extraction is the tap down . Almost simultaniously you turn the handle by grabbing the bottom edge of the end of the handle with the base of your thumb and push your wrist down and away from your body. This pushes your thumb away and turns the handle with the bottom edge of the blade leaving the water. THis method gives you a little more security than the finger roll does. The finger roll is a pulling motion and what I have described is a pushing motion and the blade pops out of the water and off the water...in flat water. THe problem with C2 blades and Croker blades is the shaft connection on the back of the blade. In flat water not much of a problem but is unsteady rolling water these blades create a lot of drag if feathered under the water. Check out Dreher blades with the elliptical shafts. Amazing!

I competed at Brandenburg this year, at World Masters. I can assure you that those conditions were close to what you are used to. Crazy stuff. I am not too familiar with proper coastal rowing technique so perhaps you can confirm. Is it advantageous to have deeper blades than in fine rowing?

I am going to try and find some Dreher blades to see how this feels. Thanks for sharing. With all the variation on blade design, and spoon shape, I think is vid is called for...

Sorry I missed your post... The jury is still out on this one for me. I have tried and although I sometimes do find I can connect quicker, its now hard to break what I though of as a good habit, which is keeping my arm straight. I am still playing with the idea in my own rowing. To protect your lower back, just make sure that you are sitting with your weight on the front of the seat at the placement, and try think of bringing your ribs to your knees. This puts your pelvis in flexion and has you sitting up into the placement. It will be the strongest position on your back, without having to to find the cushion in the arms. They have been working for years to get the equipment rigid so no propulsion is lost to cushioning, but I do hear you. I am no youngster and as my coach always said, if something is going to break, its usually the soft meaty thing between the oar handle and the footboard.

Pleasure! Agreed that we all have to work within our physiology, but I still am having a hard time squaring this circle in my head. That Dutch quad is damn fast yet only 3 of the four row with the t-rex. Number 3 does not. How do they harmonise their movement and sync up their force curves..? Would it be better if they got number 3 to just join in..?

Yes it certainly seems from the examples I have used, that the point of arms bending are to connect. We believe in connecting with the legs rather than the arms or the back, but thanks for the comment.

I have a question, and I am not having a go... I am just throwing this out there. I have my feelings on this but want to hear others experience on it. If the core has been activated to keep the upper body acting as one lever, connection has been made with the legs, and the shoulder and arm are just hanging on their sinew and bones, does this not allow for you to complete almost all of the drive with relaxation of everything above the hip? The engagement of the lats needs to take place in order to achieve the final pull of the arms at the very end of the drive, but other than the potential unnecessary use of energy, what importance of having activated lats before then?

Thanks for the reply and don’t worry, I’m not precious if you disagree! It may be a language point, but I think there’s a difference between totally relaxed shoulders and arms vs stabilised shoulders and arms. My problem is that totally straight arms tends to lead to shoulder tension and over extension; then they end up too high, the blades go deep and I over work the first part of the drive with a poor return on boat speed. So the image of hanging on sinew and bone isn’t something I buy into (I used to before I got injured!). I had a really good strength and conditioning coach who explained how to initiate a deadlift: Shoulders should be low with lats and core activated. I believe that the same principles apply at the catch. The way I achieve this in the boat is by focusing on not over extending off backstops and keeping the arms loose (maybe a bit bent) and the shoulders low by keeping the lats engaged.

I think the deadlift is a great example of why this works. Think of what’s the weakest link in lifting heavier weights. Or the piece of that chain that will fatigue quickest? Hands and arms. Anything that allows the arms to be more stable by engaging more muscles in the system will allow the legs to pull. The heaviest lifts will be achieved taking the hands out of the equation and using straps. Not practical in rowing. We don’t pull that hard but from the perspective of endurance I see gains.

For me it's advantage only when nothing it's left to use anymore.. Back and legs not working on time so to connect instantly (keep up) arms are bend

Thanks mate. I certainly have a follow up in mind. Glad you have joined the sport and I can see the bug has bitten... hard.

I agree that this is certainly not something to start rolling out into a Learn-To-Row program. Finding connection properly is such a delicate thing and most people just try slam through it. only once someone has the feel for it should they try find ways that work for them, to improve on it.

You just made me realize I do the exact same thing when stroking with a crew not used to rowing together. I don't even do it consciously, I just all of a sudden realize it's happening and try to find more ease/centeredness, but I'm probably just nervous about getting repeatedly slammed into by a train 😅

Love that this has sparked discussion like this. That's exactly what I wanted when I started InFin8. I also like what you said about highest average speed, rather than just drive speed. Thanks Mark.

I like the idea of making the placement crisp mate, but have considered it to be a case of having a slightly soft arm through the recovery, and then the placement is made with the weight of the blade and the forearm by doing a final straightening into the placement. Finding the connection by a slight pull seems like a bad idea, because there is a void on the working side of the spoon as you place, and you need the patients to let that fill up before you try connect or you will be pushing on air. Yet clearly these guys are making it work. Some further consideration needed...

This has also been going on for quite some time, Tufta, and Andre Senek also scull with elbows down. So far as sweep examples watch the inside arm as the blade locks in, you'll find a very similar motion, Drew Ginn being a prominent rower to keep his wrist up and elbow down on the inside.

This reminds me of the common cue to "break the bar" in weightlifting.

There are many scullers that seem to do it. Even a few ladies, who were my last hope at keeping finesse in the sport. I looked at the Dutch because they have more that do it than dont.

I've tried this recently, using slightly bent arms for the racing start in a single and I felt that it gave me extra control over the balance and ability to raise the rate quickly. I am inclined to continue with this experiment but with arms straigtening out after first ten strokes or so.

My coach (the boat whisperer) would always say "you could take a walk around the lake on your legs, but see how far you get walking on your hands", and although that holds true and is still our philosophy on this, there is something in the slight arm bend. Its not like the arms continue to bend through the drive. It seems to be just enough to gain connection. I still am undecided...

Hey Richard. What you have been taught is correct. Just be mindful of your blade depths. If you are too deep and start trying to feather too early then yes, you will be feathering under water, and this will be, at best slowing the boat through a large amount of drag, and at worst a crab and a tip. If your blades are where we believe they should be, just below the surface of the water, this should not happen. Please try the exercise and give me feedback. Try hold onto the pressure on the spoon as long as you can, have the blade at the right depth, start the extraction and have the blade coming out, and as you do start rolling the feather into your fingers, and then sit there with the blade dragging (until you are so confident and secure in the position that you can have them off the water). You will find that its possible to have a very clean extraction, with minimal disturbance to the water while keeping the pressure on the spoon longer.

Thank you for watching! Where are you based?

@@InFin8RowingIntl Melbourne Australia

@@toofarsouth Ahh, pity, I was there in April, and tried to get a paddle with one of the clubs across the water from Flinders, but it didn't work out. We do believe in actively pulling the boat progressively into the placement. I was also taught to spin the hands away and float the slide, but I am now very sure that thats the wrong way around. We have a vid on this. Please check it out, try it for yourself, and let me know. Wish I could come and do a demo. th-cam.com/video/BJdDoPRs08g/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ypV7vj-xa09GMaHR

And long may it last. I am not that much younger and plan to still be going to World's in my 80s! Just make sure you prioritize form over what seems like initial speed. We want to build a community of healthy, competitive, and efficient athleats. Glad you will be part of it.

Thanks for the comment. It's certainly our aim to put things in a more intrinsic way than come across all prescriptive. Please explain what you mean on this one though. I'm not understanding you properly.

What you showed it is a typical sequential type of the power application with a good length in the front and at the back of the stroke. The rowers are hanging on the oar handle and using body swing from the hips to accelerate the boat. The best examples of this technique are the boats from Greece , Italy ,Australia from the past , and some US boats from 80 ties and 90 ties . The other power application is using suspension of the , body weight on the oar handle and unweighting the seat. The stroke is more compact , more dynamic , the rowers sit up more at the catch , step on the footboards and toss themself backwards , the arms and body finish together , there is almost no layback at all. Sinkovic brother row with heavy suspension and all the Dutch boats row with very light suspension . Some athletes bend the arms at the catch to suspend the body e.g. Ned m2x , Ned m1x , and 1996 Ned m8 . Watch my video on TH-cam, The perfect connection , the stroke rows with the classic suspension and the bow rows traditional way. The bow is trying to learn how to suspend the body weight on the oar handle .

@@kriskorzeniowski5992 Sorry but we are going to have to agree to disagree my friend, and that's ok. I am about to do a vid on some of what you have raised though so that may be interesting, and lets see what the tribe thinks. Its not been my experience that little to no forward lean at the placement, and no body swing at the end of the drive is very effective. Opening the body through the perpendicular against the pressure of the end of your legs is, for me, the biggest contributor to acceleration. I have some thoughts on why some top athletes row with bent arms, but will add the desire to suspend as part of it and we will grapple with the subject. If you have rocked your pelvis forward and commence the drive with your legs, then lightening on the seat is a natural by-product. I am reluctant to tell people to try and suspend because I have found that they then try over do it, and this affects how horizontal they make their drive. After all, where does the weight go at the end of the drive if you have over suspended..? It has to land on the seat at the time that your body weight is closest to the bow, causing some degree or bounce and porpoising. I hope you keep watching and commenting. It gives me the chance to prove that what we say has been well considered. We are all entitled to do what we think is best to make the boat move. I will ask you however not to come on with a comment that directs anyone to your channel. Thats not cool TH-cam etiquette.

Thanks Mike. I often talk about the system of boat and rower, and yes, I agree that if you ignore the drag, there is nothing that can prevent a deceleration of the system, but drag is a considerable factor affecting the run. Gradually increasing the boat speed (not system speed) during the time that the system is equally gradually slowing down, serves to counter this. Nothing is perfect but we believe this is the best way to make this part of the stroke more efficient. My demo of the fact that the draw does not check the boat is imperfect. I am far from a perfect rower. What I hope comes across is that there is no characteristic check hallmarks, like a bounce on the stern or the boat moving backwards in relation to the direction of travel, as a result of "landing" on the footplate. Deceleration before the drive is unavoidable, but limitable. With the reduced drag from the draw as well as the fact that you get through this part of the recovery quicker, which causes you to spend less time trimming stern down, contributes to overall speed. You have to land the placement though of course.

Thanks for the comment Somerset. I wish you would make that video. I would like to see what you mean more clearly. I'm very keen on rowing with finesse and like the sound of the boat and rower "dancing". I cant agree that a splash is something that you do when developing and this goes away when you are more technically skilled though. .. That's not been my experience. For me, the guy who I have referenced in my Technique series thus far, Peirre Houin, places the blade pretty much perfectly. Hardly any movement on the slide. Just lift hands and in. And he creates some splash.

Glad you enjoyed it!

Thanks for the question. It is a good one! The short answer is yes, kind of... (for the rowing part. As for your golf... No comment), An oar with some flex in it does help you achieve an acceleration through the drive by "storing" any excess force that could be added at the beginning of the drive and returning it later. That said we should still try not overload the front end as it is inefficient. If the oars had no flex in them, unless you were mechanically perfect in applying consistent acceleration, there are two things that could tear; the water and/or the rower. Neither is a good idea. I think a separate video on this topic is needed, because depending on your strength, and how you apply the power, too much flex will be as bad as too little. Too much will just serve as a damper (playing golf with a rope shaft). There is a bit of science as well as trial an error to get this right so that it achieves the acceleration that we are looking for, with the return happening through the perpendicular.

Nice question Hans. As the blade enters the water it has the water rush against it, causing the "backsplash" behind the spoon. In front of the spoon it creates a small void. This fills up by the time the spoon has properly submerged, but if you get onto the power before this has happened then you end up trying to push against the void and the front of the spoon will splash when it hits the water on the other side. You will usually get a sound from this sort of entry too. The check comes from pushing with the blade not connected, which is the case when there is still air on the working side of the spoon.

I am sorry for the late reply Carsten. I missed your comment somehow. My experience has been that the most common reason for the blade getting stuck with a rolled extraction is blade depth. The blade has to have started exiting the water before you start to roll it, but if it is deep, as a result of being less stable in rough conditions, which is perfectly understandable, then its possible that you are rolling it while still submerged. There will be the need to carry the blades higher in the rough so getting it feathered quicker has always made me feel more stable. I would rather hit a wave with a blade that is already partially or completely feathered.

I am sure there will be a few terms that I use that may not be the norm. I plan to do a vid on how to fix "jazz hands". This is what I call skying the blades. Hope you found the context useful though...