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Thanks! I will give it a try and test that out. That would be great if there is no diminishing holding power as it would make the initial machining time of making the vacuum table drop down to maybe 5 or 6 minutes for the grid channel, sprinkler hole, and air channel.

Wow. Sounds like a sweet setup. How much did each of the four vacuum motors cost? I am thinking about modding my CNC to accept a full 4' x 8' sheet of plywood and am pondering whether to make the vacuum table the main spoil board/hold down rather than just a strap on accessory. Any thoughts on whether that is a good idea based upon your experience?

@Simplifycnc at the time it was around $180 a motor. They've gone I since. I used the ametek 122177-00, I could have easily only used 1 or 2 motors. They have a 120v and 220v model of the same motor I used. I built up the bed of my cnc using 1 solid layer of 3/4" mdf, one 3/4" layer of the plenum waffle board with the vacuum piping routed from under the table. Then the 3/4" LDF bleeder board/sacrificial table. I painted the bottom and sides of the mdf assembly with an air sealing goup to keep the airflow through the bleeder board. When the LDF gets too thin I surface it off and glue down a new sheet of LDF (using the vacuum table to hold it down until the glue sets) no gasketing between zones necessity. It's been a great system that I can still screw things into the table if I need to but the vacuum handles almost everything now. I also never use tabs when cutting things out

@@InspiredCraftsman Thanks for sharing the info with everyone. It sounds like a winning combination.

Awesome! Thank you!

It will work. I omitted using it for reason of keeping cost down and convenience in building the table with supplies readily available. If you want to try a rubber seal for more friction and reducing down grid size then try Orgthin 20FT Backer Rod 1/4 inch, Black Rubber Caulk Saver, Concrete Expansion Joint Filler, Weather Strip Seal for Gaps and Joints about $9 on Amazon for 20 ft (or $12 for 40 ft). I found for me it didn't give a huge improvement in friction. However, it would allow you to weave a smaller boundary than your grid to custom fit smaller parts that otherwise wouldn't be able to be fixed down (without needing to a new smaller grid outline). Hope that helps. Thanks for the question.

@@Simplifycnc Yes and thank you for the detailed response

@@jeremiahbullfrog9288 Glad to help. Thanks for leaving the comment.

​@@SimplifycncYou're not looking to create friction, you're looking to seal air leaks. I have also used 1/4" backer rod, embedded in a 3/16" deep groove, made with a 1/4" round nose endmill. It works amazingly well, as long as you have zero air leaks, so that means pushing the ends of the backer rod tightly together, using round backer rod in a round groove, using flat and smooth material to cut/carve on the cnc. I have a year and a half of research into vacuum tables, and was developing the same system as Air Weights, before they released their version to the public. PS: ditch the shop vac and Fein turbo vac, and buy an oil-less vacuum pump 😉 Happy creating!

I agree. Thanks for the comment. I tested out the rubber seal and found it did little to change the friction (but it would allow you to change the channel size if you had a larger grid that you wanted to put a smaller board upon).

Just go on Amazon and search for Fein Turbo I or Fein Turbo II. They have a description section (and both models have approximately the same strength). Here is a snippet I found on prefloortools regarding the Fein Turbo II "Two-stage bypass motor has a sealed fan for dust and debris suction, and a second fan to blow cooling air across the motor. Powerful 1100w motor gives a 98.4" static water lift rating, an air flow of 151 cfm and a 66 decibel sound level rating." You might want to give that site a look as well because there is a lot more information there. Hope that helps.

Thanks. I really appreciate that comment. I absolutely love sharing my projects/ideas with others. I have also benefited over the years from so many others on TH-cam and in the opensource community. I will definitely continue making videos with low cost novel CNC/Woodworking solutions.

Thanks. Let me know how it works for you. I really don't have any issues with things slipping without it so I don't have a good reference point (other than testing with my hand pulling on board). Since you already have some drawer liner definitely give it a try. You might also try just scuffing the inner grid squares (with some diagonal lines) using a very course grit sandpaper. I think that would work as well.

Good input. Thanks for posting this for everyone.

Hope you give it a try.

Excellent question. You absolutely do need to make sure that the vacuum formed does not too much a strain on your particular shop vac (you need to monitor this throughout your CNC job and obviously stop if it starts to overhead as you could burn out the shop vac motor or at a minimum reduce its working life). I talk about this potential issue briefly in the video under safety as well as in my description below the video (and that is one of the reason I put in the disclaimer to use this at your own risk). However, I do think there are some simple fixes to lower the strain on your vacuum. 1)Consider poking a few holes with a ball point pen in the middle of the pool noodle coupler so that part of the vacuum leaks off. Of course this will reduce hold down power but you can tune the hold down power to the minimum necessary level for your project and hopefully sufficiently lower the stress on your vacuum to prevent overheating. (If you end up poking too many holes then cover some of them up with duck tape). 2) Start by using a low cost shop vac to begin with so that if it does give out it doesn't cost you much. Black Friday is coming and you can get some great deals (usually). Also Harbor Freight has some pretty low cost shop vacs. I picked up my Orek vac from a yard sale for $15. 3) Consider limiting the use of the vacuum table to short jobs -- like with simple vcarve designs. 4) Lastly, you can always purchase a custom vacuum with a better cooling system that is specifically designed for a vacuum table (and long term stain). Unfortunately, I don't know of a low cost vac that fits in this category. If anyone who reads this knows of one please comment below.

@@Simplifycnc Or just buy a vacuum pump designed for this service, are they really that much more than a shop vac?

@@douggarson50 You could buy a vacuum pump but be aware that most of the cheaper vacuum pumps (at least on Amazon) use oil and the oil tends to get through the vacuum and ruin your wood's finish. Some youtubers have tried to remedy the oil problem with addons but most ended up very frustrated because after a few uses the addon oil protection failed. This is part of what led me to try the leverage the shop vac approach to solve the problem. There is a pretty good approach if you already own a compressor using a venturi vacuum generator (You can get a low cost adapter on Amazon). I tried that approach but the fittings with my compressor were a nightmare as everything seemed to have a different thread. Do a youtube search on this for more info if interested (unfortunately most of the people who have made videos speak German). As a side note, I cut about a 1 inch round hole in the sidewall of the pool noodle coupler (as an air cooling inlet for my vacuum) and it seems to still have enough suction to hold a board down firm-- strong enough that one should easily be able to Vcarve on it (while simultaneously letting air flow through the vacuum significantly reducing chances of overheating/burning out your vacuum). Adjusting this coupler hole size bigger or smaller will let people fine tune the balance between the suction of table and stress on one's vacuum. Its super easy to test out and only costs a small section of pool noodle.

I just posted a new video showing a way to reduce down the chances of this overheating. The vacuum cooling portion starts at 15:28 in the video. Thanks for bringing the issue to my attention. Here is the link if you want to see it in action: th-cam.com/video/pWSyRxU38HM/w-d-xo.html

The Fein vacuums have 2 motors, one is for cooling. These types of shop vacs are perfect for hold down tables

Sounds good!

Here is a link to part 2 of the vacuum table build (you might get some good ideas from it before building it yourself). th-cam.com/video/pWSyRxU38HM/w-d-xo.html

I've got an old Prusa MK3 3d printer-- Love it. I've used it a lot over the years (and still do). You might want to check out my video where I show you how to make a 3d printed plotter tool for your CNC. Here is the link: th-cam.com/video/xsYTFyY5e_g/w-d-xo.html

Sorry to hear that. I include the safety stuff for the sake of the few CNCers who don't know what they don't know. I suspect from your comment you are an experienced CNC/Woodworker so I totally understand how you wish I would just get on with the video.

I agree that for V-Carving its ideal. Here's a suggestion you might consider trying when making. I think one could use both sides of Melamine sheet to set up different size grid patterns on the same board (with separate sprinkler holes and air channels) so you have more options for fixing on boards. May be worth exploring. Thanks for the comment!

Thanks for the sump pump input. I agree the pool noodle should not scratch paint (but no guarantees, test first). What I think I personally like most about the pool noodle extender is its elasticity -- it couples very quickly for a tight fit to multiple different sizes of vacuum/tool fittings with little to no modification.

@Simplifycnc Styrofoam coffee cup & hocky tap makes a perfect pressure fit coupler ; )

@@nobody3692 Cool. Thanks for the coupler tip. I will give it a try.

Some people reverse the fan direction (set the fan face up) and then reverse direction of filter arrows). That way the bearings on the fan should only be exposed to filtered air. Downside is dust collection would be on outside and the fan speed knob would be on inside (however, you could set the speed to high in advance and then turn on fan with plug in wall socket remote -- about 12$ on Amazon). Let me know if you have any questions. Hope you build one.

Only problem is my wife watches my videos 😄😂😂

Yep. If you already own all the vac fittings and extensions your right. However, the pool noodle does form an incredible inexpensive coupler between your vac and odd sized fittings (given to its slight flexibility). Hope you check out my next video to see if the pool noodle redeems itself in your eyes. Thanks for commenting.

Sorry the solution didn't work for you.

😂😂

LOL Moped.

IKR 🤣

Thanks!

Thanks. I appreciate it.

Serendipitous hack. Thanks.

Thanks! Hope you build one soon.

Showing the customizer is a great idea! Thanks! I should have included it. I will put together a 60 second short showing it being used so that those who have never seen it will know about that powerful OpenSCAD feature. I think I was so focused upon optimizing the script for CNC machining that I never gave any thought to putting the customizer in the video. Is there anything else in particular you would like to see made using OpenSCAD in a video?

I finished the short video with the customizer for the software. Here is the link: th-cam.com/video/le5aWNSdBlE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xW2rSp0ZaqZAhTVh

cigar box newbie here, I'm not happy with my fret board but now I see a solution on the horizon. Thank you for all your work . Looking forward to learning this.

@@mikestraker2180 Thanks. My next video with full code will be posted this week. I also added a new feature to the program that allows a headstock and places the tuning pegs on the it automatically at the correct spacing. I think many cigar box guitar makers will find this to be really helpful. If you have any questions once the program is released just let me know. Thanks for commenting. I really appreciate your input.

@@mikestraker2180 Part 2 video with full software code is scheduled to be released on Friday August 9th (in the morning). I think you will like some of the additions I have made to enhance its use.

@@mikestraker2180 My new video with the full OpenSCAD code is up. Here is the link: th-cam.com/video/LTq6V-_JsiA/w-d-xo.html

Glad it was helpful!

Thanks!

Awesome, I think you will love it. Note: You can also use a few metal coils you snip from a 80 to 100 page spiral notebook (with back to school sales going on now you can pick up a notebook for 35cents) instead of trying to locate a plastic binding coil. Let me know how you like your CNC drawing tool once its made. If you have any questions just let me know.

Definitely, will do. I will come back here and post when I have a host location for the STL (assuming I am allowed by youtube to post the file location)--hopefully next week.

Sorry, I intended to get back to you sooner to update you on the status of the 3D STL files. It's still going to be quite awhile before I have time to setup a website where they can be downloaded but if you go to my channel homepage there is a contact email listed. Message me there (don't post your email directly in comments) and I will send you the latest STL files that correspond to my newest video (for the Pastels, ink, and Crayon Plotter). Also in my latest video there is additional help on using OpenScad. The worst part of the program for most people is the zooming/panning with the mouse. It takes awhile to get used to and also the idea that one has to render the 3d model with a F6 after any changes to program and then export as a separate STL using the F7 command.

Awesome. If you are zeroing pen tool at the poster/paper surface then do a profile toolpath-- line on (router off) at 2.5 mm or about 0.10 inches (the spring gives you some margin of error-- so if you want to you can go down another mm or so). The total up down movement in spring is about 5 mm so pick a DOC profile less than 5 mm and greater than zero mm. Let me know in the comments how the pen tool worked for you or if you have anymore questions.

Glad you liked it. Thanks so much for the kind words. Making flip books with a CNC is really cool (and also super fun). I have no doubt you are going to be addicted. If you liked the font strategy, there are numerous ways you can make your own custom fonts and import them into your CNC software (and then you could have at the ready, with the press of a key, easily accessible graphics along any story line of your choosing). Another idea, you might want to try when making your CNC flip book -- use a variety of pencils (from soft to hard) as you draw different layers on your animation cards to create a feel of depth. Other (hand drawn) flip book artist online have used this technique successfully. Thanks again for subscribing.

Thanks for your suggestion. I am going to try cutting way back on the amount of music I include in future videos and see how they are received. I appreciate your honest feedback. If you have anymore suggestions I would love to hear them.

I am reducing the amount of music. Thanks for your input.

Good point. You are absolutely correct. One could make a plotter tool tailored to each specific media. However, for those inclined to go that route, I would suggest don't re-design the entire plotting tool (and yes, it can be made for less than $3--- see video" Most useful DIY CNC tool nobody told you about" that gives all dimensions and parts needed). Instead, try this first: Make the plotter as designed then remodel and re-cut additional copies of the central mobile plug such that their center diameter matches whatever particular media's diameter you will be using. You can even dial in your plug's inner diameter so that it has a tight friction fit so that no set screw is needed. I have already done what you have suggested myself (cutting multiple custom fit plugs costing only a few pennies each using scrap wood that fit into the $3 plotter tool). However, I chose not to include those in the video as some newer to CNC might find it a little overwhelming and intimidating. Remodeling and re-cutting a custom tool is probably not worth it for those who aren't going to be using a particular media on a daily basis (like the crayon or chalk). For those individuals the "Shaving" method works for a quick fix and is universally accessible to every CNCer's skill level. Give the plotter a try. No doubt you can improve it,. Please change it. Make it your own. Make it better. What I have made available on TH-cam is my own design, opensource (I ask, if you post elsewhere, out of courtesy you would reference my video but this is fully opensource and not required), low cost to make, and fully customizable. No design is ever perfect, but I was unable to find any one else on TH-cam that had anything close. I would love to see you and others improve the design and share it freely. Thanks for your comment. I am sure what you said will help make the plotter even better and spur it forward. Give the plotter a try, modify it, share your improvements, and post more suggestions below. One last comment directed to less experienced CNCers who decide to remodel the plotter for each media type, the center plug's outer wall may become too thin if your media's diameter is too large.

Sorry it has taken me awhile to respond. This comment somehow wasn't showing up on my channel page (probably my fault). Good point on the depths, in future videos I will try to list them directly. I am unfamiliar with the Roland vinyl cutter. If you end up making one out of vinyl I would love to see a picture (and of course feel free to share your modified design with others if you like -- the heart of my channel is to be promote opensource solutions as much as possible). As a side note, I did do a 3d printable version of the drawing tool on my channel of this recently that has I a simpler design (and uses a notebook metal coil for a spring which is easier for some people to obtain). You might want to check it out. Thanks for your input and insight. I do apologize for not replying sooner.