All Angles
All Angles
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The soundness and completeness of logic
#logic #prooftheory #modeltheory #goedel
Access exclusive content on Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=86649007
All the way at the foundations of mathematics, you will find the language of logic. We look at its syntax and semantics, uncovering two completely different approaches to proving things. One approach is called proof theory. The other approach uses mappings (models) and is called model theory. Then we ask: can we link these two approaches to each other? The soundness and completeness of our logic system provide the answer.
0:00 Introduction
0:47 The syntax of logic
1:34 Axioms and inference rules
3:41 Introduction and elimination
5:59 The semantics of logic
7:51 Semantic inference using truth tables
10:05 Soundness and completeness
This video is published under a CC Attribution license
( creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ )
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ความคิดเห็น

  • @conan2717
    @conan2717 55 นาทีที่ผ่านมา

    Oh yeah, I'd be looking much forward to the Goedel video.

  • @timmy18135
    @timmy18135 3 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    all smurgles are flumpy, but some are more flumpy than others

  • @quetalkbox
    @quetalkbox 4 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    there is no such thing like "mathematical logic", logic is a mathematical object, the only axiom that really exist in today math is Voevosky's Univalance Axiom that enable you to go rigorously into intuitionistic logic without the trouble third middle excluded introduced in first order logic formalized with ZF set theory all math is completely being redefined in HoTT

    • @diribigal
      @diribigal ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      I would also like to see Univalent Foundations take off, but there are plenty of fine books with titles like "Mathematical Logic". Just because you don't prefer what they talk about isn't a good reason to say there's no such thing.

  • @xray788
    @xray788 6 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    The algorithm has thrown a golden video my way! Thank you so much.

  • @tomholroyd7519
    @tomholroyd7519 6 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    13:54 that's just wrong, Kurt proved you can have a complete system!!! Why does nobody get that!!!

    • @ikepigott
      @ikepigott 2 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      But if the system isn’t ω -consistent, then who cares?

  • @NajKid
    @NajKid 6 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    "in the human language like english"brightaining explaining lord of ring,nothing personely,just ..this young expiranto made for global control is under press ion.greetings*sonickeymaker.datanti IUOrg.

  • @tomholroyd7519
    @tomholroyd7519 6 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    They aren't holes. Call them inconsistencies. A small price to pay for completeness. Even Kurt created a 3-valued logic. He would have found RM3, too

  • @martinsanchez-hw4fi
    @martinsanchez-hw4fi 7 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Okay, great videos. Maybe I had alteady asked, but what tool do you use to make the animations in your videos?

  • @fieryweasel
    @fieryweasel 9 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    10:47 As the joke goes, 2 + 2 DOES equal 5, but only for exceptionally large values of 2.

  • @Destrolll
    @Destrolll 11 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    5:11 This expression begs for parentheses

  • @d69p-eix
    @d69p-eix 12 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Not entirely true that only one formula exists, its best expressed in glsl vec2 cmul(vec2 a, vec2 b) { vec2 u = a.xy*conjugate(b).xy; // ai*bi is conjugate vec2 v = a.xy*b.yx; return vec2(u.x+u.y, v.x+v.y); }

  • @simdimdim
    @simdimdim 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    0:34 me: "Huh, this will be a vid about sets?"

  • @His-Soldier
    @His-Soldier 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    What nonsense 😂

    • @zapazap
      @zapazap 10 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Indeed. But enough about you. What did you think of the video?

    • @diribigal
      @diribigal 9 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      If you have a concern with the video, it would be nice if you'd point out what it is, instead of hogging the knowledge for yourself and just chuckling about whatever potential error you have in mind.

    • @His-Soldier
      @His-Soldier 8 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      I actually don't have anything against the exposition of the ideas in this video. I do disagree with these theories, however. If you agree or not with these theories then you should be able to appreciate the humour of my comment, regarding its relationship with _sense_ 🥱

    • @zapazap
      @zapazap 6 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@diribigal But that is not the way of the troll.

    • @diribigal
      @diribigal 6 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@His-Soldier It sounds like you have a concern with the video in that you "disagree with these theories", but would like to hog the knowledge of which "theories" or what is worth disagreeing with to yourself. If you don't tell us, we have no way of knowing if we even agree with you.

  • @Sciophile
    @Sciophile 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    It is worth noting that the semantics of classical logic that you mentioned is a choice, not intrinsic; it is 'a semantics for logic' not 'the semantics of logic'. The same syntax can have a number of different semantics in different settings, and it is a statement about the choice of semantics that it is sound and complete. There are other semantics of classical (and non-classical) logics which can be sound, complete. For example classical logic has semantics in boolean first order hyperdoctrines.

  • @williamragstad
    @williamragstad 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Id love to see some category theory after introducing monoids

  • @nameless-yd6ko
    @nameless-yd6ko 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Truth is ALL inclusive! False indicates the perceiver's inability to find it!

    • @zapazap
      @zapazap 10 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      What being false indicates a perceivers inability to find what?

    • @nameless-yd6ko
      @nameless-yd6ko 10 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@zapazap Truth! ;)

    • @zapazap
      @zapazap 6 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@nameless-yd6ko Are you saying that Truth being false indicates a perceiver's inability to find Truth? Or have you given be only one half of an answer?

    • @nameless-yd6ko
      @nameless-yd6ko 2 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@zapazap No, that isn't what I'm saying; Truth is ALL inclusive! Everywhere! The only way that someone cannot/doesnot/willnot see Truth somewhere is his own blindness, not 'lack' of Truth. ;)

    • @zapazap
      @zapazap 2 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@nameless-yd6ko Still, you did not fully answer my question. I asked you for two things. You gave me one. I bid you peace. 🙏🏿

  • @nameless-yd6ko
    @nameless-yd6ko 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    The soundness and completeness of logic ~~~ Logic is 'sound' only on it's on home field, within the stricture of the rules by which it is bound! Logic, alone, can never 'completely' define Reality! Beliefs are not bound by such limitations; all that triggers a belief is a perceived threat! The First Law of Soul Dynamics; "For every Perspective, there is an equal and opposite Perspective!" "The complete Universe/Mind/Reality/Truth/God... or any feature herein, can only be completely defined/described as the 'synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives'!"

  • @moth.monster
    @moth.monster 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    How dare you. I know countless of flumpless smurgles, and they are all shniving their best fleebs.

  • @DavidSartor0
    @DavidSartor0 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    I recommend the paper "The Provability of Consistency" by Sergei Artemov. Gödel's Second Incompleteness Theorem says PA can't prove its consistency. It takes as given that consistency is represented as a single formula. This is kind of a silly choice, since it requires PA to prove that nonstandard numbers don't encode proofs of contradiction, even though (IIUC) we normally only consider proofs encoded by standard numbers. This paper represents consistency as a scheme instead of a formula. (I don't know what a scheme is.) This allows them to formalize a proof of PA's consistency in PA. Pretty cool!

  • @bartbroek9695
    @bartbroek9695 22 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    i see some inaccuracies have been pointed out, maybe this one as well but i haven't seen it yet. it's seemingly by the same conflation of two different concepts, you say, by the end, that at least we can rest assured everything we CAN prove, is true. but that's actually unknowable, which Gödel also proved. all systems of axioms (with basic arithmetic) are either incomplete, or inconsistent, but you can't ever prove consistency (which would imply incompleteness) from within the system itself, only can you prove inconsistency by eventually finding a contradiction. it is similar to the halting problem being unsolvable, in that we could design an algorithm that would eventually prove something halts, by just running for long enough, but before you're there you don't know there will be an end, in general. i love the topic though, and i think the presentation is great, and i could learn a lot from a series about this. i have to say i don't fully understand the notation in the introduction rule of the implication, but that could very well be due to a lack of familiarity. i think you are explaining things very well, just the content you're explaining needs some touch-ups but i'm excited about the different directions you're exploring in your content. I would like to share a verse of a song i wrote: De mysteries van mijn leven Soms ben ik het even kwijt En dan denk ik het te vinden Maar dan blijkt het tot mijn spijt Een comfortabele illusie Beslisbaar en bekend Maar alles is uiteindelijk Onvolledig Of inconsistent

    • @DavidSartor0
      @DavidSartor0 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Have you uploaded a recording of the song? I wrote a comment which I think you might like very much, also about Gödel's Second Incompleteness Theorem. I think TH-cam automoderation wouldn't want me to reproduce it as a reply. Please look for it in the 'Newest' comments on this video.

  • @maynardtrendle820
    @maynardtrendle820 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I regargus this kleb.

  • @Adhil_parammel
    @Adhil_parammel วันที่ผ่านมา

    "If your system can classify everything as true or false, it can't resolve every contradiction. You can't know if axioms themselves are true, false, or contradictory. This applies to God too: If God can't explain contradictions, then God's knowledge is incomplete. If God can, then God is acting illogically. Either way, there's always something unexplainable within axioms or truths. In simple terms, we can't know everything. Contradictions just shift around, never fully resolved. In math, every axiom spawns systems with contradictory paths. We extend systems to handle these contradictions, but new ones always emerge. It’s about usefulness, not absolute completeness."

  • @Speed8883
    @Speed8883 วันที่ผ่านมา

    3:10 you mean the group axioms are too complicated? We haven’t even gotten to rings or fields yet 😂

  • @riverenddelpiero4180
    @riverenddelpiero4180 วันที่ผ่านมา

    where are the next videos

  • @ROForeverMan
    @ROForeverMan วันที่ผ่านมา

    That's because form and formless are 2 sides of the same coin. See my paper How Self-Reference Builds the World, author Cosmin Visan.

  • @hossamarafa2594
    @hossamarafa2594 วันที่ผ่านมา

    You misinterpreted Gödel's incompleteness theorem, for you confused the semantic completeness for the syntactic or negation completness ; you see, Godel proved that if a system S is sufficiently complicated , then S is syntacticaly incomplete ie there are sentences φ of the language of S such that neither φ nor ¬φ can be proven in S ie φ is Undecidable by the axioms of S or φ is independent of S This is different from semantic completeness, for φ is not a logic consequence of S ie S⊭φ The gödel sentence is not a logical consequence of the axioms; the relation ⊨ is not total over the wffs of S

  • @JohnDlugosz
    @JohnDlugosz วันที่ผ่านมา

    1:08 Axioms for Smurgles and Flumpiness Existence of Smurgles: There exists at least one smurgle. ∃s:s is a smurgle. Flumpiness is an Inherent Property: Every smurgle is flumpy. ∀s (s is a smurgle  ⟹  s is flumpy.) Flumpiness is Transmissible: If a smurgle interacts with a non-flumpy object, that object becomes flumpy. ∀s,x (s is a smurgle∧x is not flumpy  ⟹  x becomes flumpy after interaction.) Smurgle Union: When two smurgles interact, they form a new smurgle whose flumpiness is the sum of the original smurgles' flumpiness levels. s1+s2=s3s1​+s2​=s3​, where s3 is a smurgle, and flump(s3)=flump(s1)+flump(s2). Neutral Flumpiness: There exists a smurgle s0 with neutral flumpiness that does not change the flumpiness level of another smurgle during interaction. ∃s0:∀s (s+s0=s). Inverse Smurgle: For every smurgle ss, there exists an anti-smurgle s−1 such that their interaction results in neutral flumpiness. ∀s ∃s−1:s+s−1=s0. Flumpy Symmetry: If a smurgle has flumpiness F, then its reverse smurgle has −F, and their combined flumpiness is neutral. flump(s)+flump(s−1)=0. Flumpiness Conservation: In any closed system of smurgles, the total flumpiness is conserved. ∑flump(si)=constant.

  • @MaxPicAxe
    @MaxPicAxe วันที่ผ่านมา

    wow very good

  • @EvanMildenberger
    @EvanMildenberger วันที่ผ่านมา

    Too bad model theory wasn't mentioned in the video although a hashtag reference is made in the description. A quotation repeated in the Wikipedia article for it says: "if proof theory is about the sacred, then model theory is about the profane" and "proof theory is syntactic in nature, in contrast to model theory, which is semantic in nature." There is an obvious duality between proof theory (how) and model theory (what) which would be nice to explore more in a future video. Related to model theory is universal algebra, which is the generalization of abstract algebra. It helped me realize that symbolic math (in contrast to the "natural" notions of geometry and topology we experience in the physical world) mainly boils down to things (the underlying sets), one or more actions that permute those things (n-ary operations from the n-fold Cartesian product to the set), and one or more properties that each of those actions always have (associativity, identity, commutativity, etc). Abstracting over the underlying set results in a "variety" of sets with the same behaviour. Relaxing the "closure" property of being a homogenous total operation to a heterogenous partial function results in a (monoidal) category, since category theory is basically just an associative, unital algebra of the composition operation between various functions. And if all those functions in the category have inverses in a way that each morphism is an isomorphism, then it results in a groupoid, which is like if a group and finite state machine had a baby.

  • @EvanMildenberger
    @EvanMildenberger วันที่ผ่านมา

    Interestingly related to what can be proven--it seems that all paradoxes have both self-reference and negation: Russel's paradox, "this sentence is false", etc. This revelation led me down a rabbit hole with associated concepts like the open vs closed world assumptions, negation as failure, and intuitionistic logic without the law of excluded middle. There's an amazing Strange Loop programming talk by Peter Alvaro called "I See What You Mean" which discusses this source of paradoxes. Now I'm always cautious when I'm dealing with something recursive when it's not fully constructive (falsehood and contradiction are not just related to the void unconstructable initial type). Also, type theory is interesting: it seems common that things are either defined recursively like a cycle with the collection of things containing its own definitions inductively, or else it's like a chain with the things being defined in terms of a collection of higher-order things. Set theory takes the first approach with being recursively defined but that leads to issues like Russel's paradox. Type theory is like the second approach in that there is always a higher order type which can define the lower order types ad infinitum. But dependent typing allows some backwards reference from higher order referring to lower order types, which gives a best of both worlds approach: it can be circularly defined when the goal is consistency but the ability to jump to a higher universe of types allows it to avoid paradoxes.

  • @rickybloss8537
    @rickybloss8537 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Actually all planets are oblique spheroids.🤓

    • @Juttutin
      @Juttutin 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      That's brave... You're claiming that in the entire universe there is not even a single perfectly spherical planet. Which is perhaps probably true, but not all swans are non-black.

    • @rickybloss8537
      @rickybloss8537 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@Juttutin nevermind I'm the arrogant idiot I guess didn't re-read my original comment, fair point.

    • @Juttutin
      @Juttutin ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@rickybloss8537 damn, I didn't get to read your original reply and was denied my rightful opportunity to engage in an internet argument!! I just hope that you got that I was just jesting! It amused me to be pedantic in a comment on a video being pedantic (if precisely so) in presenting logical pedantry (if logically driven syntactical to semantical transforms of logical assertions aren't pedantry at it's finest, I don't know what is) 🤷‍♂️😀

  • @dragolov
    @dragolov วันที่ผ่านมา

    Bravo!

  • @anywallsocket
    @anywallsocket วันที่ผ่านมา

    Brilliant! Yes, we need a video on decidability and the connection between Tarski, Gödel, and Turing 🙏

  • @gershommaes902
    @gershommaes902 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Amazing video.

  • @PauloConstantino167
    @PauloConstantino167 วันที่ผ่านมา

    prove to me that P->Q is true when P is false and Q is true

    • @diribigal
      @diribigal วันที่ผ่านมา

      It's true by definition. You're welcome to invent your own logical connective that doesn't act like that. However, it will be something else with a simple name, as in on the list at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation#Truth_table_for_all_binary_logical_operator or similar.

    • @PauloConstantino167
      @PauloConstantino167 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@diribigal you lie!!! why do people always lie!!!

    • @diribigal
      @diribigal วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@PauloConstantino167 Do you think you will convince me of my error with more exclamation points? I have a ton of textbooks on logic and they seem to back me up on this. If you have something in mind that would contradict what I said (i.e. make me a liar), I'd be curious to learn what that is.

    • @diribigal
      @diribigal วันที่ผ่านมา

      On the off chance you or someone else is interpreting "true by definition" as something like "obviously true from everyday logic", I meant the opposite. I meant that it's true by fiat by the mathematical community, and we all have to live with that fairly arbitrary decision.

    • @AllAnglesMath
      @AllAnglesMath วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@diribigal In our video about Hehner logic, there's a strong analogy between logic and order theory. In that context, the '=>' operator is interpreted as "less than or equal to", which makes it a lot less arbitrary. But this analogy is still by fiat as you point out.

  • @Diez145
    @Diez145 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This is a fantastic introduction. Your explanation of semantics of logic reminds me quite a bit of the concept of Differance by the "non-math" philosopher Derrida! When you get to the foundations of mathematics/logic, there is quite a bit of overlap with continental philosophy haha.

  • @Velereonics
    @Velereonics วันที่ผ่านมา

    The first one is also false technically. i don't think any planets are spheres, I think the whole thing is that, in space, nothing is spherical. In space, there's no such thing as a straight line. All planets bulge, a little bit at their poles, and you would need a really specific set up to, like counteract that I i just don't think it's possible like you'd never end up with a system that the planet is spherical, even if they were made of only one element.

    • @AllAnglesMath
      @AllAnglesMath วันที่ผ่านมา

      I should have said "All *mathematical* planets are spherical".

    • @Rhino-Flea
      @Rhino-Flea 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@AllAnglesMath or cows

    • @zapazap
      @zapazap 10 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Me: this is a black sheep. You: It is in fact not black! It reflects some light!

  • @jamaluddin9158
    @jamaluddin9158 วันที่ผ่านมา

    During my logic course, it was actually quite satisfying to prove that First Order Logic is both complete and sound.

    • @StylishHobo
      @StylishHobo วันที่ผ่านมา

      *Gödel wants your location.*

    • @jamaluddin9158
      @jamaluddin9158 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@StylishHobo 😅

    • @hossamarafa2594
      @hossamarafa2594 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@StylishHobo Gödel did it first

  • @DeathSugar
    @DeathSugar วันที่ผ่านมา

    Kinda weird to see all the commas and "hence" operators instead of actual conjution/disjunctions. At first i though it was an enumeration of arguments (A,A) not sequence A & A=> B

  • @RensePosthumus
    @RensePosthumus วันที่ผ่านมา

    I think you should be a bit more precise in the completeness part. You cannot prove it *within* the system. You can switch to a higher order system and prove it there (assuming there is consistency).

  • @jagatiello6900
    @jagatiello6900 วันที่ผ่านมา

    A particularly interesting issue with logic and inference models is the 'raven paradox' by Carl Hempel. Nice video, keep them coming. Have a great 2025!

  • @diribigal
    @diribigal วันที่ผ่านมา

    You seem to have confused "incompleteness" in the sense of Goedel's Incompleteness Theorems with "incompleteness" in the sense of not having syntactic proofs of everything that is true semantically. These are two unrelated ideas that confusingly have the same name. This is why the English Wikipedia page for the incompleteness theorems has a warning at the top: "for...the correspondence between truth and provability, see Goedel's completeness theorem". His completeness theorem actually says that in a first-order system (like the standard set theory axioms ZF or ZFC), the thing you're worried about towards the end of this video *can't happen* ! Every statement that's semantically true has a "blind" syntactic proof. (So unless you're a logician working with "second-order logic" or similar, all the math you do can be done on a foundation of set theory and be complete in this sense.) Goedel's *incompleteness* theorems are about something else entirely: the question of whether every statement is provable or has its negation provable (syntactically or semantically, since those are the same by completeness). For reasonably complex first-order systems, there are unsettled questions like that, but completeness still holds, so that *if* a question is settled by semantics, it's settled by syntax, too.

    • @AllAnglesMath
      @AllAnglesMath วันที่ผ่านมา

      Thanks for the clarifications. I should probably have done more research for this one.

    • @Adhil_parammel
      @Adhil_parammel วันที่ผ่านมา

      "If your system can classify everything as true or false, it can't resolve every contradiction. You can't know if axioms themselves are true, false, or contradictory. This applies to God too: If God can't explain contradictions, then God's knowledge is incomplete. If God can, then God is acting illogically. Either way, there's always something unexplainable within axioms or truths. In simple terms, we can't know everything. Contradictions just shift around, never fully resolved. In math, every axiom spawns systems with contradictory paths. We extend systems to handle these contradictions, but new ones always emerge. It’s about usefulness, not absolute completeness."

    • @allenliao1357
      @allenliao1357 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@AllAnglesMath I think you should fix the mistake (if u can add annotations to the video), or if not, take it down. The whole video is about A but the ending + title is about B. The error is too big to ignore, and it straight up misleads the viewer in thinking that the logical system we use in math (first order logic FOL) is incomplete. The arithmetic system + FOL may be incomplete (in a different sense of completeness), but FOL certainly is complete.

    • @Adhil_parammel
      @Adhil_parammel 8 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@allenliao1357 fol is not sufficiently expressive enough to categorise everything to true or false.

  • @tanvach
    @tanvach วันที่ผ่านมา

    Brilliant

  • @MusicEngineeer
    @MusicEngineeer วันที่ผ่านมา

    I think, for expressions like the one appearing at 4:28, parentheses would help a lot. Apparently, the expression is supposed to mean (A, A ==> B) |- B. But my first interpretation would have been more something like (A,A) ==> (B |- B). This, of course, doesn't make any sense (...or does it? ...it could be a tautology, I guess - "Given A and A, it follows that we can conclude B from B"? ....yeahhh...that sounds like it should be true, regardless of A and B 🤣 )) and was therefore confusing. Seems like one really has to know operator precedence rules here - the typographical spacing not only doesn't help but actually leads one on to the wrong way. I also often notice this effect with expressions involving the wedge product. I often get it wrong, what operand it "binds to".

    • @AllAnglesMath
      @AllAnglesMath วันที่ผ่านมา

      Very good point. I should have added parentheses, it would have made everything much more clear. My bad.

    • @MusicEngineeer
      @MusicEngineeer วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@AllAnglesMath Still very high quality content though. Much thanks for creating it. I'm learning a lot here. I didn't mean to come across negative. But it is something that I noticed while watching.

    • @kevincsellak296
      @kevincsellak296 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      In the introduction rule, the middle turnstile is made larger to make it more obvious, and as a whole the notation is consistent across the table. But I definitely agree that parentheses would help a lot in ensuring that viewers don't need to pause the video to understand what's being said.

  • @j4BnSPUgdu
    @j4BnSPUgdu วันที่ผ่านมา

    It is distressing to me that this video here before us today tells us we must simply accept a thing as true (Goedel's incompleteness theorem, in this case) without this video providing any pretence whatsoever of justification for this claim. We should accept a thing as true merely by fiat, just because a slick video is telling us? That sets a regrettable precedent for educational videos. That would be unremarkable if this were, for instance, a gossipy news video. But the title of this video makes it clear that it intends to be telling us something about logic. Isn't logic supposed to refrain from making claims without attempting to justify them? In fairness, the video was extremely well organized and produced. You can tell a lot of thought, work, and care went into constructing and producing it. I just wish if a video about logic isn't going to give any justification for a statement, leave it out. If you're going to make a video in the future explaining the incompleteness theorem, fine. Talk about it there. Making categorical pronouncements concerning the truth or falsity of claims with no justification is the opposite of constructing and extending the network of human knowledge: it fosters and encourages the growth of human ignorance and error. Please don't do it. Please refrain from digressing into claims about a subtopic unless you intend to offer support for the claim. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

    • @kyay10
      @kyay10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      If you want a proof, the proof exists out there. Have you ever been in a mathematics or science class before? Things are stated constantly without proof if they're well-known results. Godel's incompleteness needs its own video to explain its mechanism in detail. In fact, such videos exist already, even one by Veritasium I think that's intended for the general public. Not every video needs to regurgitate proof details when they're so well known and would deter from the greater point.

    • @diribigal
      @diribigal วันที่ผ่านมา

      Your "justify every claim" desires puts an unreasonable bar that would make basically any video unwatchable. If you were to watch a video targeted towards primary school students about basic properties of even and odd numbers, would you require the video to justify 1+1=2 via a proof using the Peano axioms for natural numbers? Of course not. Similarly, this video is targeting people who have not learned about the basics of this stuff in a class about mathematical logic, and so it would be a digression to turn the video into, say, a many-hours-long video building up a semester's worth of material on the proofs of soundness and the incompleteness theorems. Soundness, Completeness, and Incompleteness are just about the most famous theorems in mathematical logic, and there are a ton of free readings, proofs, and videos everywhere about them.

    • @j4BnSPUgdu
      @j4BnSPUgdu วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@diribigal only for videos that make it plain in the title and in the content that they're about logic. This video was almost perfect. The fact that it was so nearly perfect made the defect of introducing a new subtopic without any justification more distressing than it otherwise would have been. Less do as we say, not as we do, and more show us, give us good role models to pattern our thinking after, and less gossip and anecdotes when making videos about logic or science. I get that people want to make videos entertaining. My own preference is for less entertainment and higher quality information.

    • @diribigal
      @diribigal วันที่ผ่านมา

      @j4BnSPUgdu I would hardly call "mentioning-without-proof a very famous theorem that basically takes a whole book to prove" gossip or anecdote, but I don't know what I can say to convince you. All I can say is that for me, the fact that the cited results are so famous as to have expositions everywhere makes the difference. And if it were some niche thing, then I'd still be fine with a video that cites a published paper for me to read on my own.

    • @j4BnSPUgdu
      @j4BnSPUgdu วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@kyay10 My own copy of the incompleteness proof is well-thumbed, I assure you. It's this video I was talking about. It was experience by me a bit like a slap in the face and rather insulting to talk in a relatively rigorous manner, as this video did, about topics in logic such as soundness and completeness and then have the same video manifestly demonstrate the opposite of good logical practice. Of course this is the opinion of one person sharing a subjective reaction. One data point, and maybe not a very representative or generalizable one.

  • @se7964
    @se7964 วันที่ผ่านมา

    “There will always be unprovable truths” is not what incompleteness actually is. This is a common misconception. Rather, any sufficiently powerful logic system (such as first-order logic plus peano’s axioms) are possessed of a degree of expressive power sufficient enough to construct ONE single self-referential statement (the liars paradox) whose inability to be evaluated by that system imbues it with a trivial aspect of being true, but unprovable. That it no way implies other statements share this property, or that the rest of mathematics is “full of holes”, anymore than the liars paradox in colloquial speak implies our grammar is “full of holes”. Rather it simply shows we have the power of self-reference in such a language.

    • @samueldeandrade8535
      @samueldeandrade8535 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Why ... ? Why did you take a reasonable statement like "There will always be unprovable truths" and make an analysis about something else? You must have some condition.

    • @diribigal
      @diribigal วันที่ผ่านมา

      Your comment makes it sound like the only statements we have in standard math systems where they and their negation can't be proved are the ones constructed using the general self-referential trick in the proof of Goedel's incompleteness. That is very much not true. For example, you might have heard about the Continuum Hypothesis being independent of standard set theory axioms (ZFC). That would be an example of a "hole" in the sense that ZFC doesn’t pin down an answer, but there's no weird self-reference trick.

    • @diribigal
      @diribigal วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@samueldeandrade8535there is a precise sense in which "there will always be unprovable truths" is false in standard mathematics, as shown by Goedel's completeness theorem. I think the comment was very reasonable, if perhaps misinformed about the variety of unprovable statements in math.

    • @lnm3221
      @lnm3221 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@diribigal This is incorrect. Continuum hypothesis is neither true or false in ZFC. It can be either true or false in ZFC+some other axiom.

    • @lnm3221
      @lnm3221 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@diribigal This is incorrect. Any true statement in mathematics can be proved using sufficiently strong system of logic.

  • @j100j
    @j100j วันที่ผ่านมา

    Spheroids*

  • @Planetarium963
    @Planetarium963 วันที่ผ่านมา

    As an expert on smurgles, I can confirm that all smurgles are flumpy.

    • @AllAnglesMath
      @AllAnglesMath วันที่ผ่านมา

      That's good to know. If you have any evidence for your claim, feel free to share it here ;-)

    • @wyattsheffield6130
      @wyattsheffield6130 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Ugh yet another showboating smurgle expert 🙄 We all know smurgology is more glamorous than flumpiness theory but you simply cannot deny that the former necessarily follows from the latter. In fact I contend that flumpiness theory is more general and descriptive than smurgology. For instance, is a smurgologist such as yourself able to describe a flumpy blorbo? Yeah I thought not.

    • @yuro-h7m
      @yuro-h7m วันที่ผ่านมา

      I, for one, recently visited an ancient ruins 29 km North of Glorpshire and personally witnessed a tribe of non-flumpy smurgles.

    • @keeperofthelight9681
      @keeperofthelight9681 วันที่ผ่านมา

      The set of experts on smurgles is not defined

    • @matthewe3813
      @matthewe3813 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@wyattsheffield6130 Smurgology elegantly defines the flump transformation of smurgles in various blorbo-space manifolds, while flumpiness theory fails to do this. It follows Smurgology thus can define all transformations of any form in a blorbo-space, including flumpy blorbos

  • @DanielMojoli
    @DanielMojoli วันที่ผ่านมา

    Crystalline. Thank you!

  • @markdatko4832
    @markdatko4832 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Thank you for introducing Gerhard Genzen to me