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I'd say those are pretty much the same mods. I'll be doing a retro review of NWN2 soon since I'm replaying the OC, and one of the things I want to cover are the mods.

@Bottomless_Inventory grear, because is quite the rabbit hole and you end up researching for day what and how to apply correctly, what versions and compatibilities are ok, and I'm talking the very basic stuff, core fixes, ai, ui, I'm not even going to Kaed prc etc.

Yeah, it can be a bit of a headache given that NWN2 doesn't have any mod managers and such. The biggest problem is the UI which needs a lot of modding to be bearable. Kaedrin's pack is fine but it's also overpowered for the official modules. Although, I'd say the modules were created with newbies in mind. If you know what you're doing, NWN2 is a walk in the park.

My pleasure! I hope it helps. Enjoy Mask of the Betrayer! I'm so jealous you get to play it for the first time!

Well, Myrkul is no eviler than the next god if you think about it. None of them, not even The Triad, opposed the Wall of the Faithless or took any actions against it. Illmater, if I recall correctly, would not punish any actions against it while Mystra did oppose it for a while. But in the end, The Wall became a crucial part of the compact between the gods and the mortals and a fact of life. Of course, Myrkul created the Wall way before that so that he would be feared forever, as fear is also a form of worship, but the gods were all kind of evil. Before the Time of Troubles, they apparently did not care that much about mortals when they did not need them. Later on, they forced mortals to worship. Not giving mortals a choice--because being False, Faithless, or striking a deal with devils is not really a choice--is basically treating them as a resource. Gale actually talks about it in Baldur's Gate 3: he thinks mortals are expendable to gods. Only some gods delude themselves into thinking they care about them.

OldTube vibe!

@@jorggovazquez Right, it's an old video that I did way back. I could reupload it but it really needs some work. Not that NWN2 is particularly fun to watch.

@@Bottomless_Inventory Ah, I see! Well, you do great content at any rate! Knowing your interesting takes on these, it would be awesome to see it! But still, up to you! Thank you for all your attention and your content! We are lucky to have you around!

@@jorggovazquez It's back! Check it out if you're interested!

@@denys-p Well, I didn't like it and I consider it to be a rather poor ripoff. To me, it's the biggest gaming disappontment ever. If Torment has a spiritual successor, it's Mask of the Betrayer. But again, this is just my opinion and that's why it's absent. Also, I didn't want to bash it. I might replay it some day and give it a second chance without my great expectations from way back when it launched.

Thanks! More content is on the way!

Thank you!

@@HateMachinist You know, Myrkul in BG3 was a badass boss. But in MotB, he was badass "social" boss, something like in Deus Ex Human Revolution. Absolutely superb writing by George Ziets, I think.

@Bottomless_Inventory writing and voice acting was absolutely worthy of a God's devicing. Hats off. Unforgettable, even today.

@@HateMachinist They got the voice right. I think it was described in Faiths & Pantheons. In BG3, they did it differently. It worked but Myrkul in MotB is just way more interesting and overall better. In BG3, it could be anyting really. Jergal was more interesting definitely.

Forgotten Realms and Planescape aren't exactly the same setting, are they? I mean, it's theoretically the same universe but a different campaign setting. As for Avellone's work, according to Colin McComb, he did about 50% of work on Torment. Quote from "Tales of Torment" at RPGWatch: "I hate to say it again, but Chris did the major work on the game. I would estimate that although he had seven designers on his team, he did about 50% of the work on the project. Keep in mind that he did all this while he was working on Fallout 2 as well. The man is truly prolific."

I hope my skepticism wasn't too harsh. I wish you all the best and I'll gladly play Blizzard in Baator when it's done. It's just that ambitious mods are often abandoned or take forever to complete. I wouldn't want to be one of those people who thought Dzieje Khorinis would ever come out. ;-) I don't know if Planescape: Damnation was even real, but I believe Grimuar Sferowca when they say you guys are actually making things happen. If I can ever be of assistance, especially if this channel (hopefully) grows, I'll gladly help. PS Angielski, żeby nie alienować ludzi w komentarzach. Powodzenia z modem!

Whaaa XD

XD XD XD XD

Thank you for your kind words! As for The Witcher, maybe it's the fact that I've replayed it like a dozen times but I think it's a really easy game in terms of mechanics. It just has a punishing early game if you don't know what you're doing. It's definitely the easiest in the series anyway. It's just that it has an amazing atmosphere that is missing in The Wither 2 and kind of in The Witcher 3. But I agree, it's really low/dark fantasy and I wish more games were like that! :-)

Maybe they would do it like Tides of Numenera. Although... imagine TNO waking up in the Mortuary, More is greeting him and all, and TNO is like "soooo... I'm non-binary". I could totally see BioWare doing that and saying the game was updated for "modern audiences".

@@Bottomless_Inventory I think it could be done tactfully. With the different incarnations business it would be interesting for the player to craft their own incarnation however they would want it. Instead of simple 9 alignments there could be multidimensional personality system. It would be interesting if modern AI methods would be used to assist in creating multitude of versions of dialogues for different personalities.

I think you really overestimate the ability of today's game creators. Especially those affiliated with big corpos. I honestly don't think there are a lot of people who could deliver anything as good as Torment today. Disco Elysium is the only thing that comes to mind.

@@Bottomless_Inventory I know it is a pipe dream at the moment, without mature tools, or technology demonstrators. The big gaming business just isn't too interested in risky innovation. Maybe next year :P

Yeah, I remember that I hated 3D some 20 years back because it was so ugly. I hated series I liked switching to ugly-ass 3D. But then, well, I guess Neverwinter Nights 2 didn't look half-bad at the time. I loved it. Sure, today it's super klunky but Mask of the Betrayer is so good I don't even notice.

@@Rikard2k Wow. You're too kind. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

Yeah, especially Grace and her journal. On one hand, I'm curious. On the other hand, "a lady must have her secrets". It could be anything, and we'll never know. And maybe it's for the best.

@@Bottomless_Inventory Exactly, I remember wishing for a new Fallout game before Fallout 3 was announced. Now I feel the lore has been diluted with all the new games - it doesn't have the same mystery around it anymore.

Yeah, aside from several fragments, the trailer looked really good for 1997! And Lustmord's music was really cool too. Too bad all of it was cut from the game.

In his full power, maybe. Meaning once he is rejoined by the previous incarnations and his mortality. And this is assuming he ultimately becomes Fighter 25/Thief 25/Mage 25. But before this happens, he starts at like level 3 mechanically and doesn't remember anything. So, until he regains his full power, making him a cleric does make sense mechanically. It would just be a pain to implement story-wise.

@Bottomless_Inventory I mean story wise. He is clearly a man of hubris. He is godless. Also it's reasonable to assume he was maxed out in his first incarnation. He achieved immortality but likely fell short of godhood. Unless he flat simply sought mortal immortality. Which is a whole different kind of hubris arguably. And possibly why he seems to have damaged reality. Unless he's just a lich. Don't know that much about DND. I mean at the point I've gotten to I'd say he is technically a lich. Correcte if I'm wrong but he did something even more unnatural with his phylactery? Cause that does seem to come into it.

What do you mean? Each incarnation is a completely different person. Practical Incarnation or Paranoid Incarnation, yes, I don't see them as clerics? But the latest TNO could theoretically be just about anyone. Black Isle didn't cut cleric because it was impossible story-wise. They cut it because it would require dumping too much lore and extra story on the player and lots of extra development.

I mean, yeah, it makes perfect sense. Though, we can actually worship Aoskar, the dead god of portals, but that gets us instantly mazed if I remember correctly. I'd say the biggest challenge would be to introduce the cleric class. With mage or thief it's like "teach me, berk". With cleric? That would require A LOT more explaining, and this is assuming the old-fashioned way where you worship a deity. You would have to implement a lot of them for it to make sense, too. And then, being a cleric requires actual devotion (although I'd have to research how it works exactly in Planescape). So yeah, I can see why they restricted TNO from this class. In the end, they made the right call. Cleric would have bitten them in the ass big time way down the line.

I still remeber the quote that there are races in the planes that consider deamons as a form of snack. Gods would not fit in there, they would feel petty.

Well, depends on the rank of a demon. The weakest ones can be destroyed easily by adventurers. As for gods, I dunno. Look at the stats of 2e FR gods. Some of them are pretty powerful. Lesser deities maybe not so much.

They could've made up any story for what the TNO "worships", that dilemma is actually an avenue to more stories and interesting items and spells,

Well, yes and no. I think the point of that ending would be to be that 25th level character with all memories intact. Besides, at the start of the game, TNO no longer loses memory so maybe we could find a way to keep it that way. Also, if I recall correctly, the shadows that hunted TNO were controlled by TTO, and their purpose was to kill TNO so that he would keep forgetting himself and not get to the Fortress of Regrets. Still, you're probably right that others would still die in TNO's place, but it's obviously a good ending for a selfish character. So the moral ending would be to break the cycle, which we do in the final game and I absolutely love it this way.

Of course! I mean, that's basically my point: do it right or don't do it at all. It seems they had realistic plans for the most part and these cuts didn't take away from the plot. Moreover, they made sure all the loose ends were tied. Games that have such cuts done often leave a lot of questions unaswered and you can tell that something is missing. That's basically Obsidian and inXile. I mean, not only publishers are evil -- bad management and/or unrealistic ideas are just as bad. When combined, it's an overkill but Obsidian and inXile folks are ex-Interplay/Black Isle to a large extent and had been in business for a while so they should know how these things work. Meanwhile, KotOR 2 and NWN2 really suffered because of clearly being overscoped, which had to end in cuts before Christmas release (who could have known the publisher would want that, right?). TToN, on the other hand, lacked that publisher oversight that forces you to stick to any sort of deadline. In the end, they included lots of half-baked shit, walls of text being for an editorial pass (or multiple ones), and still managed to not deliver many promised features. All in all, you can do cuts the right way or the bad way. Too little is bad and too much is bad, as well.

Well, theoretically he can return the feelings of Deionarra, Annah, and Grace. It's just that he cannot really do anything about it. Although... it is strongly implied by Grace that they will meet again if he keeps thinking of her.

I'm happy this video is being recommended, too! Do come by more often! I'll probably do similar videos for other games I like. As for the Vision Statement, you can find it on RPGWatch. Just try to search "rpgwatch torment vision statement". I wasn't able to link it because I couldn't post external links at the time of posting the video. I'll see if I can do it now later.

@@5AETH I'm glad it was interesting. I definitely enjoy researching my favorite games so come by more often. I think I might also do another one about Torment but focused on easily missed or forgotten stuff that's actually in the game. We'll see! 😊

I'm not sure if they update anything content-wise. I think it's more language/technical updates but I could be wrong. Still, I'd say it's a must have if you want to replay the game.

Thank you! Come by more often. I'm actually thinking about doing a video on cut content from Dragon Age Origins. Quite a bit of interesting stuff there!

Thanks for the recommendation. I might just do that! ;-)

Absolutely. It does such a good job at being a spiritual successor to Torment without telling you that it's a spiritual successor. Meanwhile, Tides of Numenera was marketed as one, and then it turned out that inXile completely misunderstood what made Torment great. And we ended up with a poorly executed rip-off/wanna-be. Or rt least in my opinion.

Numenera was different story. It's connected to torment in name only. That doesn't Make it bad. Arguably the Castoffs are more interesting than the nameless.

Is it, though? Because I felt like it rips Torment off a lot and pretty poorly, at that. But this is just my opinion way back from 2017, mind you. I mean, it probably depends on execution too. Mask of the Betrayer arguably also ripped Torment off, but it did it so much better. Maybe because it didn't rely on walls of text. It showed a lot more. Tides of Numenera was mostly telling without showing. And it was telling way too much. But then again, it's perfectly fine to enjoy TToN. I'm just saying that it was an enormous letdown for me.

@@Bottomless_Inventory I haven't gotten through torment although this is more of a mechanical issue. I actually do feel that they're very different stories. The main thing is the Nameless is that guy. He literally did that stuff even if he doesn't remember. The Castoff is an actual newborn. He's the body, not the mind or soul. That fact alone makes it different. The fact that there are others like him, other castoffs. It similar but not the same. Also I didn't mean to imply that torment isn't compelling. As I said I haven't finished it because I'm still trying to figure out how to play it. Also the world's in wich they occur are both strange, but they are distinct from one another. And personally I find Numenera just that much more mysterious. But then I just like cosmic horror anyway. No moral compass(literally), just a big flesh monster that people apparently live inside of.

@@Nutshellbound I played 3/4 of Numenera but I just lost intrerest somehow. The game wasnt lackluster I think but the comparrissons with it and Torment might have been a bit unfair. Numeneras world seemed very deep and enticing at first but somehow running around Sigil made way more of an impact on me than Numenera, which is weird because in a sense Numenera SHOULD be Torment but even MORE TORMENT. I think it came down to game mechanics in the end, which is ironic because Torment was not the best kid in class with that either.

It's an awesome setting but definitely a bizarre one. This, combined with Chris Avellone's mission to destroy every trope and cliche, made Torment less appealing to the mainstream audience. The game struggled to make a profit because of that. I mean, I can see why. I also wondered where the hell do I get some armor in this game, for example. But if you don't mind reading and give Torment a chance to immerse you in its world, THEN you're in for an adventure of your life. :-)

Honestly, I think Torment was totally okay content-wise. The game can drag on for too long in my opinion. Torment is pretty slow and I don't think it could afford being longer without being too long. Black Isle avoided the trap of being too ambitious with these cuts. That's the trap that Obsidian and inXile definitely fell into multiple times. KotOR 2, NWN2, Tides of Numenera... The last one was a terrible shitshow in terms of content and the biggest disappointment of my gaming life. The walls of text that is just a chore to wade through. Half-assed locations in the form of a "gamebook". A lot of those people come from Interplay/Black Isle and I can definitely tell that they struggled with management. That's why I don't blame evil publishers. I think it's more about bad project management and overambitious plans that can't be delivered within realistic deadlines. I mean, how many times can you make the same mistake? So yeah, I'll definitely take a smaller project that is nicely fleshed out and has all the loose ends tied. Like Torment did (or Mask of the Betrayer, which I love just as much). I hate the feeling that there is something missing and I won't ever find out what it is.

@@Bottomless_Inventory Well, that's a whole different issue! I played Tides of Numenera years ago, but I still remember it fondly, even if it was overly ambitious. I didn't mind the walls of text either, I think the biggest problems were the lack of focus and the protagonist that wasn't as memorable as The Nameless One. But if extra content was strongly tied to the main storyline (or the companions' story arcs), it could be a great addition to the game. Anyway, I agree about Mask of the Betrayer being the perfect spiritual successor to Torment, along with Disco Elysium.

It took me two months, give or take, to finish Tides of Numenera back when it launched, and I really felt like I was just playing a bad rip-off. Like it tried hard to be Torment, I could feel the writers sweating while writing lots and lots of unnecessary, excessive text. Mask of the Betrayer does it amazingly well, on the other hand. Like, you know you've seen this all before in some way, but it's still well-written and feels original. A few years back, I had a completionist mindset so I played TToN and did a complete run. Had it not been for that, I would have just uninstalled. BUT! I might actually give it a second chance some day. I think the rage has worn off and I'm ready for that. Don't get me wrong, there were moments when I had fun but I can't really say what exactly they were. I don't remember that much from the game. Torment, on the other hand, just burns itself in your memory!

@@Bottomless_Inventory That's fine, your criticism of Tides of Numenera is perfectly valid! I guess I'll just always appreciate a bold and outlandish idea, even if the result sometimes falls short of expectations. :)

That's the thing. I think both Tides of Numenera and Pillars of Eternity tried too hard. Like, I could feel they were trying hard to be different, even if the result was just weird. In Torment, it just felt right. Maybe iit's because all this talk about spiritual succession, glorifying Infinity Engine, and such.

Yes, I think Annah had such a comment. I just thought the original vision was more literal, that's why I mentioned it. And the name of the sound sample (and the cutscene in the game files) was also pretty literal. Also, your discovery is quite interesting. The reason nobody mentioned it, though, is probably the fact that not everyone knows every author and philosoper and/or digs that deep. Could be, it's not based on anyone, either. Still, interesting find!

@@Bottomless_Inventory I am *pretty* sure he is based on that man, his grammar is a bit backwards and Norochj backwards spells J Choron... and he literally paraphrases his quotes.

I might actually look this guy up. Nice catch!

Thanks!

Thanks! I've always liked to explore cut content in games and think about what might have been. In Torment's case, these are a mix. Some are for the better, some are for the worse. Still a terrific game. I'm actually thinking about doing a video on what's actually in the game but what is easy to miss.

Thanks! Come by more often!

Thanks! And I agree. This is probably controversial but the doom and gloom of TW1 is spot-on. TW2 doesn't have that at all in my opinion. TW3 does have it's awesome moments but it's still more on the pretty side.

What do you mean? I haven't played Cyberpunk yet. I'm wondering about buying the Complete Edition but I'm definitely not paying the full price. I've managed to wait 4 years, I can wait for a major sale, too. XD

@@georgegeorgopoulos6543 Notice me, Algorithm senpai. 🥺