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Not a good acronym!

El que va atras va a la misma velocidad que el de adelante y esta remando a la mitad del ritmo

I always think you shouldn't be making noise when you paddle

Less than complete use of legs torso and optimal entry and release. Not very effective nor efficient

I didnt hear any comparison...

What abt side wind? With no feather wind will have less grip on the blades.

What are your speeds at the different levels?

What is your very favorite paddle?

I’m not clear on the concept but will watch a couple times. It’s a little confusing because your voice doesn’t always correspond to the paddling such as when you say “always out on one” but when you say “one” you’re already out and well forward. Also there’s no way to “see” the difference in the variable effort put into each power stroke. However, the idea of “gears” (I also have a significant bike racing background) should be useful in varying wind/wave conditions. I find myself paddling differently against the wind (lower gear?) than with the wind (higher?). Also, as a beginning performance paddler, my technique tends to degrade in side waves or more complex wave conditions (such as reflected waves). What is your paddle length and feathering angle?

Apparently, @7:11, CCRAP also stands for “collecting crap” as you deftly picked up trash floating in the water! 😅 Never missed a beat talking, either. Nicely done! 😊

Probably one of the best videos (if not the best) out there with such camera angle (in addition to clear demonstration) ! Great work !

A feature of Ivan's stroke has always been the full extension of the arm into the catch and through the power phase. The young paddler, by crooking his elbow a little at the catch, shortens the forward length of the stroke and applies a greater proportion of his power to the back part of the stroke where the blade is starting to pull water upwards (wrong direction of vector and sinks the stern).

Once a kayak/ski is underway this movement of pulling the blade backwards through the water should not happen (apart from some slippage). The blade pivots around a lock point as the kayak/ski is moved past. If you are pulling a wing/propeller blade through the water like that then that is the wrong stroke and it will cause flutter.

Interesting video. But it must be stated that Lawler is drafting the younger paddler, so he’s putting out less power to stay at that speed. Potentially 10% to 20% less. Also, he could be applying greater power for each stroke. But more than likely, he’s also a more efficient paddler due to years of training. Having said that, it’s useful to study the current multiple-distance world K1 paddling champion, Fernando Pimenta from Portugal. Even at that very highest, most elite level of racing, he has a slower cadence for a given speed EVEN when he’s (normally) leading a pack. Then he just pulls away and wins, still maintaining his phenomenal form and power at a lower cadence. I just (age 66) started paddling seriously a month ago. I find myself paddling at low stroke rates (around 50) so I can better control my movements and attempt to feel the water better. Maybe that’s a good thing. But I do consider myself a CCRAP student, my technique mostly being, well, crap, leaving a lot of room for improvement! I currently average about 4.5 mph (4 knots per hour) and am concentrating on 5 mph as an intermediate goal. Appreciate this site!

In similar lines I thought more about using Unicycle as paddling training aid. Few reasons: - hip rotation is used to turn - leg and upper body separation - Balance and coordination - using smaller crank size simulate paddling leg motion - adding small weight in each hand or playing hockey unicycle with alternating hands sides would add hands workout part… - some drills you show on bicycle are actually part of unicycle freestyle techniques - I just have similar feeling. In my legs after unicycle and kayak sessions… Maybe good idea would be to explore dry paddling trainings aid tools… like elastic bands or weight training… thanks Cheers

Rotation is also useful in swimming for forward propulsion. Of course baseball , tennis, golf, boxing all rely on rotation.

I grew up on the land just to the east of the bridge, from the early 1970's to early 1990's. The bridge was built in '77, and the vertical pipe visible around 2:15 was put there by 2 OSU grad students back in '89.

Nice idea to hold to paddle to one side to test different "lengths" on each side.

In the UK, we call these "asymmetric" paddles. Agree, they don't lock on to the water the same, particularly as you try to apply more power.

Your stroke is what's making you feel fatigued. You might like the euro paddle more in dynamic water.

Arm paddler.

What happens when you reach 6 foot deep? And rising tide.

Makes me want to pop on an electric motor. Lol jesus this is ridiculous

Careful bow, stern, sculling, and static draws yield huge amounts of power. A turn at speed with a delicately applied bow or stern draw lets you get a sea kayak high on its edge. I often use a wing paddle on downwind runs in a sea kayak and it has become my primary on expeditions and day trips, with either a Euro or Greenland (especially if sailing) as spare. I came to the wing through surf ski.

Well, can you test now and let us know the difference - strawberry vs cocoanut? That would be interesting.

Try thinking in terms of driving the blade forward into the water/catch, and do not wonder when to pull back. Never pull back. Never pull back???? What do you mean? I mean by the time it is time to “pull” back, your boat/you should already have moved past the catch. Instead just drive the other hip/leg. Always think drive. Don’t think pull. This way you maintain a positive catch throughout the stroke.

Nice demo. Not that others don’t exist, but I’ve never seen this common sense approach to looking down to show rotation. I recently got back into sea kayaking for fitness river paddling and got a non-keyhole cockpit on a 20”-wide boat with a deck tall enough to fit my feet so that I could flex my legs like you show-maybe not quite as much as you, but even a little is noticeable. Also helps to keep my knees from becoming stiff when I get out of the boat after a few hours. I’m noticing that my stroke is a lot more efficient and smoother than it ever was before. Regarding when to start the rotation/pull, assuming you have good enough hearing, and the wind isn’t too loud, I have found that it works for me to advance or retard the timing of the rotation based on how loud the entry sound is. When it’s barely audible, it’s just about right; and it can vary quite a bit based on choppiness, current, and applied force. It’s my version of continuously variable camshaft timing. Thanks again; very helpful distinguishing between hip and torso rotation.

Good Info , but get to the point sooner please. What about those using feather , are you telling them to go to non feathered? If so, make that a clear suggestion, thank you

How's your bracestroke with that toothpick? 😁

Nice CCRAP video! Please tell us what you’re paddling (surf ski and paddle). Thanks.

If it means anything, you are my spirit animal! I’m a racing cyclist, 65 years old, been racing 50+ years, who’s just getting into competitive kayak paddling. Learning a lot from your experiments! PS: I’m the sprinter on our 40+ cycling team… 😅

Could tell is was LA. Dead bodies floating by as you demonstrate cruising stroke. 😂

Julian Norton Smith from Paddle 2 Fitness suggests your timing can be achieved by considering using the blade in the water as an anchor to pull the opposite hip forward (paraphrasing). If the blade is not buried, you wouldnt have anything to pull against. Nice view!

Technique can always be improved. Whether one wants to or not; that is the question. 😅 Interesting that you experienced paddle flutter with the Euro. That might mean the catch and pull was off kilter (angle) or the high hand was not stabilizing the paddle adequately. Flutter means lost pressure and efficiency. You might want to paddle more with the Euros to smooth them out and lose the flutter before you start really applying force. Always hard to do a proper A/B comparison when you’ve spent so much time with A versus B. Interesting nevertheless to get your on-water observations as you give it a go. Appreciate the effort!

You can't expect to compare a wing which you usually paddle to a euro blade which you obviously do not know how to paddle because you have gotten so used to the wing :) Engineer talk wise, with euro, the majority of the force produced is near the middle of the stroke, whereas with the wing, due to it's sticky traits, it is more linear. For euro, and this is also similar with greenland paddles, it is like the clutch is engaged more in the start and the end of the stroke. Give the euro a few slow sessions to feel the blade and then you will be ready for a more detailed review. But overall, having tried all three paddle types, I am a wing guy :) Hope that insight helps. Cheers!

As a military guy, I appreciate your acronym for your paddling research institute! 😂

Based on your discussion here, what is your best guess about paddle length (given the Epic small-mid) and long distance paddling efficiency? You said a shorter paddle might be advised. How short for what sized paddler as an example? Isn’t one of the keys here how deep do you bury the paddle on each stroke? I would think that you’d want to bury the blade fully but not beyond that, regardless of vertical or horizontal. Thanks!

Your experiment is fine. Your conclusions have issues. But your intuition that another experiment is called for is SPOT ON. Make HR the control variable. The preponderance of RACING evidence tells us that the “short” stroke is both faster (in sprints) and more efficient (in marathon) and you may just need to find out why. The competitive dynamics of world class competition are not free of myth and bad logic, but they are subject to rather decisive turnaround when a faster or more efficient technique is employed. Just my two cents as someone who’s been in the endurance sport game for decades. 😊

GPS and GLONASS is basically GPS because GLONASS is not reliable. I may or may not have a significant professional experience in this area. It’s all rather classified or not. 😅

I like your approach! The “problem” with the longer stroke is what you brought up, how much propulsion do you get at a negative angle versus greater efficiency at the more positive angle. The consensus of racers (where we find the greatest incorporation of what works) is that shorter and more powerful is better than longer. So your next “experiment” (and as a PhD I appreciated your dependent and independent variable discussion) should be same stroke rate (as here) but same HR, that is, more pull in the short stroke to bring your HR up to 140. The independent variable would be speed. (Or alternatively, lower HR on the long stroke). It’s all about “experimental design.” The issue would be, which one is more efficient over the long haul. If you were, for example, paddling for one hour, five hours, or ten hours, which stroke TYPE, PRESSURE, and RATE would you choose? Just my two cents. Thanks! 😊

At low angle feather / zero many paddle without a dominant control hand leading to a lighter grip in either hand so less cumulative strain. Its one reason its hard to suddenly change from high to low as the technique is different There is no right angle that suits all as it is a factor of geometry which takes into account paddling technique / posture including high hand or low hand, amount of rotation, narrowness of catch (eg k1vs wider ski). Relaxed distance paddling vs sprint. How wide/short you exit. Also everyone's ergonomics are different, what one finds comfortable others dont. With an adjustable paddle you can experiment and your ideal feather may change as your technique develops If you paddle with loose friction on the clamps so that it can slip it will probably end up slipping to suit the way your wrist are aligning rather than fixing the feather and causing it to dictate your grip. Once you have found the default angle by this method you clamp it at that and use it as your start point. Keep in mind you may test on nice flat water using monitored controlled strokes, but in the real world of paddling with your average paddler your strokes will not always be your text book ideal, so it will never be ideal for all your strokes. One reason, as you allude to, for many to go 60 degrees is that it is easier to pick up a loaner fixed paddle and use it as this is a common default. When i was on 20 I found it impossible to pick up someone else's paddle fixed at 60 without risk of swimming on a tippy boat The zero feather theory is really based on the principle that it is easier for an absolute beginner, with no established technique, to brace more easily and stay upright on a tippy boat without having to learn the whole paddle twist thing. Thereby not giving it up as too hard. Lower/zero feather seems to favour low elbow paddlers, while high arm paddlers often prefer higher feather. Older elite paddlers usually on high feather as years of doing this has physically conditioned them to this ergonomically, simply changing their geometry could cause issues as they are not conditioned to it I am currently around 40 degrees having previously used 60 and 20 for substantial periods. Never felt right at zero There are also other issues causing wrist and hand pain other than wrist alignment, eg pulling unevenly through fingers, or not having a good palm grip even with wrist aligned. Wrist cocking inwards at exit, rather than straight causing a higher resistance scooping exit Just experiment with it and find what works best for the individual. keep in mind many issue have nothing to do with feather whatsoever. We are not machines and no one does everything the theoretically "perfect" way

Just watched your recent videos on feathered paddling. I came from sea kayaking and slowly reduced feather down to zero. I’ve used wing paddles for over 5 years and am now on a surfski. I haven’t had any wrist problems so far but can see one coming. A couple of points to make: Point 1: Flat water racing and rough water in the sea (downwind & surfing) are quite different scenarios. In the latter scenario I’m in total agreement with Oscar: zero feather permits instantaneous and instinctive bracing which can be crucial in rough water. Point 2: Your discussion of the wrist angle refers to extended, neutral and flexed. These are in one dimension, like ‘pitch’ in aero terminology. But so far no mention of the other dimensions, e.g. ‘yaw’. When I first starting using wing paddles I used to keep both arms straight. Some of the online teaching from the masters show the arm pulling the blade through the water as straight and the upper arm as bent until the blade in the water releases, then that arm rises and bends and the upper arm moves to straight before the other blade enters the catch phase (also attempting to keep the shaft something like parallel to the chest as one rotates). One reason Ivan says is to ensure the catch is as far forward as possible and that some of the initial force is downwards. However, this causes sideways forces on the wrists (‘yaw’) and therefore a different consideration for wrist strain. I am continuing to experiment and analyse...

I liked the video. I’d like to offer a few comments. On when to begin the rotation; I believe that’s a relatively simple thing to feel. When the paddle blade is firmly planted in the water and resistance is felt on the blade is when rotation should begin. That would also mean that at the end of a stroke on one side we remain in that rotated position until the blade is again planted on the other side to begin the next stroke. When rotation begins to quickly, the lack of pressure on the blade is palpable. That lack of pressure indicates an early start to rotation. You mention sea kayakers not having the same ability to rotate as someone in a surf ski. With some boats that’s quite true. My own boat has a high enough foredeck to allow both legs in the center of the hull, feet on the footplate. That allows for great freedom in leg movement, with my legs moving just as you demonstrate in the video. There are several brands of kayak available that do allow that positioning. One thing I’d like to hear commented on is just how much rotation is enough. I’ve heard often that one can’t rotate too much. I disagree. If there is so much rotation that one “has” to begin to uncoil the torso just to have the blade reach the water; that’s just wasted motion/energy. I’d suppose that point is different for everyone, but some research into that subject would be good. That said, I enjoy your videos. Keep up.

I’m a new river guide and this video helped me out a lot. I wasn’t understanding that I had to let the opposite of control grip loose and let the paddle turn inside of your hand. This video helped me out a lot man, thank you!!

Nice video. I believe the rotation should start only after the wing blade got enough lift by the catch movement in the water.

Great video. I'm paddling all sorts badly. Just working on hip movement, core, hamstrings to be able to sit up straight, slightly forward. 45 years of major back injury are not helping but I'm getting there. This is a big help.

No comments? Found this so informative.. Shame about that rubbish..

I'm far away from being good at sprint/surfski technique but I keep learning and training. Doing everything on my own. I've been using Ivan's 6 vids as well as your materials as my knowledge base. Recently someone commented under one of my technique updates and brought something like a "catch frame" to my attention. In that concept (as far as I understand it), arms move only during air time and legs only during water time. This means leg drive and hip rotation start once the paddle blade is fully submerged. I'll be taking all this information back to the water in spring when I start paddling again.

I wanted to add a word of caution about changing the stroke. It's good to go gradually and cut down the effort some when trying something new to avoid injury. When I started doing more upper body rotation I was enthusiastic and went out on a time trial using the new technique for the whole course. I did get my personal best on the course, but am still feeling the effects :)