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KJ Drake
เข้าร่วมเมื่อ 1 ก.ย. 2017
K.J. Drake is Assistant Professor of Historical Theology at Indianapolis Theological Seminary. He attended Covenant Theological Seminary in St. Louis where he received his M.Div in 2012. He completed his Ph.D. in Historical Theology at Saint Louis University. His publications include articles in the Journal of Reformed Theology and Westminster Theological Journal and online with the Modern Reformation and Credo Magazine. His first book entitled The Flesh of the Word: The extra Calvinisticum from Zwingli to Early Orthodoxy was published in the Oxford Studies in Historical Theology. Dr. Drake is an ordained Ruling Elder in the Presbyterian Church in America having served churches in both Missouri and Ontario
The Lord’s Supper — The Westminster Confession of Faith §29
This lecture discusses the Reformed view of the Lord's Supper and its biblical and theological foundations. The Reformed tradition rejected both the Roman Catholic and Lutheran claims of a real corporeal presence in the bread and wine, as well as the notion that the Supper is merely a memorial. Instead, following the theology of John Calvin and Heinrich Bullinger, the Westminster Confession maintains that Christ is truly spiritually present in the partaking of the Supper through union with Him. The lecture also addresses the basis of Reformed Eucharistic piety and its administration.
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
0:57 The Lord’s Supper Defined WCF 29.1
8:54 Rejecting the Sacrifice of the Mass WCF 29.2
19:03 The Celebration of the Lord’s Supper WCF 29.3-4
23:41 The Sacramental Union of the Lord’s Supper WCF 29.5
25:10 The Reformed Rejection of Transubstantiation WCF 29.6
33:00 The Reformed Argument against Lutheran Consubstantiation and Ubiquity WCF 29.7
36:06 Real Spiritual Present of Christ in Communion WCF 29.7
39:36 Worthy and Unworthy Partaking WCF 29.8
46:37 The Frequency of the Supper?
48:41 Paedocommunion in the PCA?
51:08 Conclusion
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
0:57 The Lord’s Supper Defined WCF 29.1
8:54 Rejecting the Sacrifice of the Mass WCF 29.2
19:03 The Celebration of the Lord’s Supper WCF 29.3-4
23:41 The Sacramental Union of the Lord’s Supper WCF 29.5
25:10 The Reformed Rejection of Transubstantiation WCF 29.6
33:00 The Reformed Argument against Lutheran Consubstantiation and Ubiquity WCF 29.7
36:06 Real Spiritual Present of Christ in Communion WCF 29.7
39:36 Worthy and Unworthy Partaking WCF 29.8
46:37 The Frequency of the Supper?
48:41 Paedocommunion in the PCA?
51:08 Conclusion
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วีดีโอ
The Sacraments and Baptism - Westminster Confession of Faith §27-28
มุมมอง 116หลายเดือนก่อน
This lecture addresses the nature of the sacraments in general in WCF 27. What makes a sacrament and how does God use tangible elements to affect spiritual benefits? The Reformed tradition has discussed this in terms of a sacramental union in which the thing is united to the thing signified by a divine act in the context of covenant. The qualities of a biblical sacrament and the nature of sacra...
The Church and Communion of Saints - Westminster Confession of Faith §25-26
มุมมอง 602 หลายเดือนก่อน
This lecture discusses the foundational doctrine of the Church in the Westminster Confession of Faith. The Westminster divines distinguished between the Church visible and invisible while grounding the Church in the continued activity of Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit. The true Church can be known through its marks: the preaching of the gospel, the right administration of the sacraments, ...
Oaths, Magistrate, and Marriage - Westminster Confession of Faith §22-24
มุมมอง 614 หลายเดือนก่อน
This lecture continues delving into the Westminster Confession of Faith's understanding of the Christian life by examining its chapter on oaths, magistrates, and marriage. Each of these chapters demonstrates how the Westminster divines envision society being structured under the law of God and for his glory. Resource: PCA Study Committee Report on Divorce and Remarriage (1992) www.pcahistory.or...
Of Law, Christian Liberty, and Worship - Westminster Confession of Faith §19-21
มุมมอง 975 หลายเดือนก่อน
In this lecture, we delve deeper into The Westminster Confession of Faith, focusing on Chapters 19-21. We explore the nature and purpose of God's law for Christians and examine the definition and scope of Christian freedom. Additionally, we discuss the foundation and purpose of Christian worship, explaining the Puritan doctrine of the regulative principle. The lecture also covers the theology a...
Good Works, Preservation of the Saints, and Assurance - Westminster Confession of Faith §16-18
มุมมอง 1116 หลายเดือนก่อน
This lecture continues the discussion of the ordo salutis of the Westminster Assembly. The Westminster divines argue for the importance of good works as the fruit of grace and faith and evidence of divine election. They further establish the foundations of the Christian life and spirituality through God’s objective preservation of his saints in salvation and the subjective experience of certain...
Sanctification, Faith, and Repentance - Westminster Confession of Faith §13-15
มุมมอง 497 หลายเดือนก่อน
Continuing on with a discussion of the Westminster Assembly’s doctrine of the application of salvation, this lecture investigates the nature of sanctification, faith, and repentance. The Westminster divines set forth a compelling Reformed understanding of how Christ continues his work through the Holy Spirit to make believers into his image, and the internal work by which Christians are turned ...
Doctrine of Justification - Westminster Confession of Faith § 11-12
มุมมอง 989 หลายเดือนก่อน
This lecture addresses the twin doctrines of justification and adoption as presented in the Westminster Confession of Faith. The Westminster Divines codified the Reformation's understanding of justification by grace through faith alone, utilizing the best of early modern scholastic theology. They sought to preserve a purely gracious salvation over and against Roman Catholic and Arminian doctrin...
The Ordo Salutis, Free Will, and Effectual Calling - Westminster Confession of Faith §9-10
มุมมอง 1229 หลายเดือนก่อน
This lecture discusses chapters 9 and 10 of the Westminster Confession of Faith. First, it explains the basic structure of the Confession's presentation of the Ordo salutis or order of salvation before addressing the idea of free will and effectual calling.
Christ the Mediator - Westminster Confession of Faith §8
มุมมอง 129ปีที่แล้ว
The center of the theology of the Westminster Confession of Faith is the doctrine of Jesus Christ as the only Mediator between God and humanity. Chapter 8 of the confession addresses who Christ is as both God and man as well as his work from humiliation to exaltation. Chapters 0:00 Introduction 2:41 Christ in WCF 1-7 6:44 The Manifold Mission of Jesus Christ WCF 8.1 10:59 The Person of Christ W...
The Fall and God's Covenant - Westminster Confession of Faith §6-7
มุมมอง 180ปีที่แล้ว
The Westminster Confession expresses an Augustinian understanding of sin and the fall combined with the developments of 16th and 17th-century federal theology. This lecture discusses the nature of the Fall, original sin, the Covenant of Works, and the Covenant of Grace within the historical context of the Westminster Assembly and its significance for Christian theology and life. Chapters: 0:00 ...
Creation and Providence - Westminster Confession of Faith §4-5
มุมมอง 208ปีที่แล้ว
Creation and providence are the means by which the Triune God forms and governs his cosmos. This lecture looks at the Westminster Confession of Faith’s discussion of these two doctrines including the creation of the world from nothing, humanity in the image of God, the definition of providence, and its use in the Christian Life. Chapters 0:00 Introduction 4:15 WCF 4.1 Creation of the Cosmos 7:0...
Predestination - Westminster Confession of Fatih §3
มุมมอง 363ปีที่แล้ว
The doctrine of election is both a great source and foundation of Christian hope as well as a challenging teaching that pushes us to the limit of human understanding. This lecture details the doctrine of predestination or the divine decree in the Westminster Confession of Faith chapter 3. In addition to the meaning of doctrine, the alternative positions of Arminianism and Molinism are discussed...
God and the Trinity - Westminster Confession of Faith §2
มุมมอง 264ปีที่แล้ว
The Westminster Confession offers a creedal account of the doctrine of God and the Trinity. The theology of God's being in this chapter is the foundation for the doctrine presented in the rest of the WCF. Chapters 0:00 Introduction 2:40 Summary of WCF 2 6:24 Barthian Critiques of WCF's Structure 17:23 The Divine Perfections WCF 2.1 27:15 Impassibility 40:43 The Divine Character towards Creation...
Holy Scripture - Westminster Confession of Faith 1
มุมมอง 493ปีที่แล้ว
The first chapter of the Westminster Confession of Faith address Scripture as the only authoritative source for life and doctrine. Chapters: 0:00 Introduction 3:01 Historical Context of WCF 1 9:52 General and Special Revelation WCF 1.1 16:47 The Authority of Scripture WCF 1.2-5, 10 34:58 Addressing Criticism of Westminster's Doctrine of Scripture 42:30 The Sufficiency of Scripture WCF 1.6 47:34...
The Westminster Assembly - Historical Context
มุมมอง 1.2Kปีที่แล้ว
The Westminster Assembly - Historical Context
Why Do We Need Confessions? - The Nature and Purpose of Confessions of Faith
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Why Do We Need Confessions? - The Nature and Purpose of Confessions of Faith
Calvin on Knowing God Our Gracious Redeemer
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Calvin on Knowing God Our Gracious Redeemer
John Calvin on Knowing God our Holy Creator
มุมมอง 152ปีที่แล้ว
John Calvin on Knowing God our Holy Creator
The Life and Theology of John Calvin: "My Heart I give to You, O Lord:"
มุมมอง 167ปีที่แล้ว
The Life and Theology of John Calvin: "My Heart I give to You, O Lord:"
Neo-Orthodoxy and Vatican II: 20th Century Christianity - The Story of Christianity Lecture 13
มุมมอง 114ปีที่แล้ว
Neo-Orthodoxy and Vatican II: 20th Century Christianity - The Story of Christianity Lecture 13
Post-War American Christianity: From Consensus to Culture War - The Story of Christianity Lecture 12
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Post-War American Christianity: From Consensus to Culture War - The Story of Christianity Lecture 12
Protestant Missions and Global Christianity - The Story of Christianity Lecture 11
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Protestant Missions and Global Christianity - The Story of Christianity Lecture 11
American Christianity: Civil War to WWI - The Story of Christianity Lecture 10
มุมมอง 114ปีที่แล้ว
American Christianity: Civil War to WWI - The Story of Christianity Lecture 10
The Second Great Awakening - The Story of Christianity Lecture 9
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The Second Great Awakening - The Story of Christianity Lecture 9
Christianity and the Enlightenment - The Story of Christianity Lecture 8
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Christianity and the Enlightenment - The Story of Christianity Lecture 8
The Colonial Church and First Great Awakening - The Story of Christianity Lecture 7
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The Colonial Church and First Great Awakening - The Story of Christianity Lecture 7
The Lutheran and Swiss Reformations - The Story of Christianity Lecture 5
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The Lutheran and Swiss Reformations - The Story of Christianity Lecture 5
The Great Schism and Christian Middle Ages - The Story of Christianity Lecture 4
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The Great Schism and Christian Middle Ages - The Story of Christianity Lecture 4
From Augustine to Charlemagne - The Story of Christianity Lecture 3
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From Augustine to Charlemagne - The Story of Christianity Lecture 3
K J the gost
I CANT BELIEVE I MISSED YOUR TEACHING THIS FRIDAY AND SATURDAY 😭😭😭
I gave a version of the second talk at GA this Summer if you are interested. You can find it here. pcaga.org/project/knit-together-by-the-sacraments-cultivating-reformed-sacramental-piety-dr-k-j-drake/
I'm Christian Reformed CRCNA, so our creeds are very similar to Westminster. This video was a great explanation of often misunderstood concepts.
Hello, I'm from Brazil and I'd like to give you some advice. From what I see here, your channel is very interesting, however, it doesn't reach a reasonable amount of people. First of all, I'd like to advise you to turn on your camera. Putting only images gives the impression of being a weird podcast. Don't ask me why, but people like to see the speaker talking. Also, pay editors, the video needs to be dynamic so that it doesn't get boring. Finally, don't stop recording videos because this is one of the most interesting channels I've ever found.
Record videos more frequently too, this increases TH-cam engagement.
This is a beautiful analysis of what I've been saying forever
Thanks. Glad that you found it helpful. Since you are Presbyterian, you might also be interested in my videos on the Westminster Assembly. Blessings in Christ.
@@kjdrake3832 out of curiosity, do you have a denominational affiliation
@redeemedzoomer6053 Yes, I am an elder in the Presbyterian Church in America.
@@kjdrake3832 Nice! I like how this video vindicates my assertion that Machen was a retreatist lol
That might be the case with the founding of Westminster Seminary. However, he did not leave the Northern Presbyterian Church voluntarily. He was suspended from ministry for supporting the Independent Missions Board. Only then did he found a different institution. Have you read his book, Christianity and Liberalism? It is certainly of its time, but it is an insightful argument about the nature of theological liberalism.
10/10. I like history like this.
Section I.-God from all eternity did by the most and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; Is this not a fallacy of Equivocation? To say God ordains in a causal sense of creation, and in a non-causal sense with Man's sinful choices? We're using two different definitions of the same word. One that is causational, and one that is semi-permissive in that God isn't the cause, but I can't happen any other way.
The Westminster dose not refute all forms of theonomy for Clarification. Only the most extreme version of theonomy is obviously not required. Our laws are falling far away from what they should be. Which could of been avoided if we didn't cast off our Prophetic vision that Restrains evil. Kuyperian theonomy is a go.
Slowly making my way through this series. As a cradle Presbyterian who doesn’t know his confession well enough thank you!
Josh, glad you are finding the videos helpful. Blessings as you dig deeper into your confession heritage.
Great man of God
What is your opinion on the American pledge of allegiance? What is your opinion on elementary children doing the pledge at school?
Thank you for this! As a student of Reformation history, and (though a Reformed Baptist) a student of the Westminster Standards, this background information is very helpful! I have also come to use the Book of Common Prayer, so to see its connection between all this Reformed history is intriguing and helps give a context to its text and practice.
It seems for Antiochians the notion person and nature are interchangeable.
Thanks for doing this!! Would you consider doing a lecture on the Cartwright-Whitgift admonition controversy and the Hooker-Travers debate? Looking forward to your reading your book in the future thanks. I have Cramner book on the Sacrament - is there any other writing from the 1500/1600s that defended the Reformed Christology you would recommend? it would be cool if you did a lecture on the different English polemics against Rome like Perkins, Andrew Willet and then the different view of Laud with the Jesuit. ps - did the Westminster divines teach the Christian Sabbath in that children should not use recreation on Sunday and would that include playing with toys or board games?
Thank you Dr. Drake.
Hey, brother. Glad you are aiding the church with these videos. I took out my notes from your class on the Confession at Covenant in 2017, which aided me in teaching Sunday School. Specifically Westminster Confession of Faith chapter 27. Thanks for your work. Blessings upon you.
Thanks, Tyler. I am glad to hear that my teaching was helpful to you. Blessings to you as well.
These videos are great!
Praise the Lord Jesus Christ
Hi, are you available on any podcasts? Thank you for your teaching.
Thanks for stopping by. I have talked about my book on a few podcasts. Here is a link: www.audible.com/pd/KJ-Drake-The-Flesh-of-the-Word-Podcast/B09DWPZY8D?source_code=ASSORAP0511160006&share_location=podcast_episode_detail
A bit of Greek could help you read that the icon provided under which it is written the name of Nestorius is of St Spyridon, a totally different person.
Very Beautifully Explained, Amaziing,Thanks...
Also, this is probably the wrong WCF Chapter for this question, but why has the Reformed Church in general partitioned itself such that Presbyterianism is almost always paired with paedobaptism and Congregationalism is almost always paired with credobaptism (eg, with the Congregational paedobaptists and the Presbyterian credobaptists now mostly extinct)? Would you say it's a logical consequence of the basic principle of "more sacred rites require more sacred clergy" (eg credobaptism is usually taken as more of an ordinate than a sacrament, so it doesn't really require a special priesthood, and it meshes well with a low church congregational polity, whereas paedoobaptism is usually seen as a covenantal rite or a sacrament, and is more in line with a higher church presbyterian or episcopalian polity) or would you say it's more of an unfortunate American style bundling of issues into a two party system?
Would you say that for the common man in the pews, the differences in doctrine between the WCF and Roman Catholicism are deep and substantial--like, to the extent that these differences would have real implications for the salvation of souls/--or do you think it's mostly semantics? I mean, functionally speaking, it seems that a big chunk of what the Reformed perspective does is to revamp the currency of the Sacraments, so that "assurance" is being meted out (as opposed to "justifying grace" in the case of Catholicism). Both the Catholic and the Protestant strive for piecewise repentance and sanctification, and both pin their ultimate hope on the mercy of God through Christ, yes?
The common person in the pew would have experience a dramatic shift in the 16th century moving from Protestant to Catholic worship and theology. From the the service changing from Latin to the vernacular, the encouragement of reading the Bible onesself, the nature of salvation not mediated by a priestly class or relative to one's relationship to the papacy, to numerous other aspects of devotional life and the understanding of salvation and religion. Both Catholics and Protestants of the period would have argued rightly that while they agree on many things the whole system of the Church and how one comes to right relationship with God were fundamentally different in means, mode, and security.
@@kjdrake3832 I realize that this question may well be so problematic in and of itself as to negate any possible meaningful answer from the outset, but...Would you say that communities within a Reformed tradition had a higher salvation rate than their Catholic counterparts? Not sure how to phrase the question to make it more "fair" or even answerable (eg by controlling for equally devout, serious, educated, and not in a corrupted or superstitious branch of their respective traditions), and it's frustrating not to be able to better phrase such an important and fundamental question, but, alas, it's the best I can do, here...
Regarding the Puritan Doctrine of Man and Total Depravity, would you say there are any crystal clear objective lines that determine what the unregenerate natural man can or cannot do? Take, for example, some of our founding fathers. On this list below, is there anything that would make a Puritan say "Aha! This is beyond the capabilities of the unregenerate"? 1. Coming to the conviction that there must be an Unmoved Prime Mover or a Deistic God, as an inference from "Why is there something rather than nothing?" 2. Becoming convinced that Jesus' morality is the most perfect ideal, and striving to live by that example (which, in modern parlance is considered to be "a personal relationship with Jesus Christ"), but still rejecting any commitments to miracles or the supernatural (eg "The Jefferson Bible") 3. Being baptized into the Anglican Communion, and even attending services and receiving communion. Moreover, even persevering, but still never believing Jesus is the incarnate Son of God. Is my intuition that the Puritans would have pretty high hopes for such a fellow correct, or would they be more likely to see him as unregenerate/reprobate? True, he lacks "faith" in the sense of literal belief in the creedal fundamentals (and also the Protestant distinctive of substitutionary forensic justification), but, objectively speaking, he's "faithful" in the sense of loyalty, perseverance, and good fruits. Furthermore, it's objectively true that Providence saw to it that he was born into the Covenant (eg he was baptized). The curious thing, though, is it seems that a reasonable man could be persuaded that the Law of Christ (or at the very least, the 10 Commandments) is the ideal morality, without ever hearing the name of Christ (or would the Puritans say that's beyond the natural man?)
Does the WCF draw a distinction between the Interior Man and the Exterior Man? For example, suppose a man was baptized and lived an outwardly devout and austere life and persevered to the end. Would they say he was automatically saved? Would they say that if there were no "inward faith" (eg no indwelling of the Spirit or regeneration) then that would necessary result in some sort of "outward apostasy"?
Where would you say the Puritans stood on the spectrum of acknowledging a somewhat hazy ability to discern God's blessings or condemnations based on outcomes vsl full blown Prosperity Gospel (which I'm assuming they'd reject in its modern forms)? Eg, Would they associate Salvific Grace with 1. Constantine's Cross in the sky, 2. When Capt. Whatshisname beat the Spanish Armada, or 3. Kenneth Copeland becoming a wealthy man?
Even though Providence is probably the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of Reformed Theology, it seems that most of this would follow automatically from confessing God as the "maker of all things, visible and invisible". What would you say the main distinguishing feature of the Reformed view of Providence is? Also, does the WCF presuppose a particular metaphysics (eg, Aristotelian, with language about instrumental causation, etc)?
Wayne, you're correct that the doctrine Providence follows naturally from the doctrine of God as Creator; however, some groups did challange the ongoing governance of God over Creation such as the Socinians during the 16th and 17th centuries and the Deists in the 18th. I would say that the Reformed doctrine of Providence is in general line with the Augustinian tradition. The distinguishing features of this tradition come in the acknowledgment of the scope of Providence over all things including human willing and to all particular things. The emphasis placed on Providence in the Puritans also focused on discerning providence for the sake of the Christian life. As for the metaphysical presuppositions of the Assembly, yes they were generally working for an Aristotelian view to understand this doctrine. However, it was not their intention to codify any philosophical system in the Confession. The use of primary and secondary causality is avoiding the technical terms of philosophical systems. They do not explicitly use the four-fold causality model of Aristotle here, which they would have seen as appropriate for scholastic theology but not a confession.
Does the PCA (or other modern heirs to the WCF) allow for synthesis between conventional young earth/special creation historical-grammatical interpretations of Genesis and current scientific models of cosmology and evolution? Clearly, there are myriad ways of doing this (eg, modern quantum mechanics evidently leaves open the possibility of the present influencing the past, so that Adam's Fall and subsequent human sin progressively altered the past from one that reflected an Eden-istic recent creation in Divine Grace and closeness to one that reflected a more and more distant and more and more brutishly naturalistic "accident"), but they all have in common the principle of science informing the Bible, a reversal that strikes me as quite contrary to the Bible Belt Indiana Calvinism with which I'm familiar
Hi, Wayne. I wouldn't say “synthesis” since this implies two inputs arriving at some higher truth. Rather, Confessional Reformed traditions focus on the historical-grammatical and theological readings of the text and its revelation of God’s acts, will, and truth. There can then be secondary reflection on how this relates with other fields such as natural science, for which there are a variety of models that can uphold the teaching of the text.
@@kjdrake3832 ah, thank you. I had recently seen a WLC clip about one of his books where he mentioned something like "I take Young Earth Creationism dead serious as a hermeneutic, but I reject 'creation science' as absurd", and so I had a sort of "Wait, what?!?" kind of double take.. But, reflecting on what you said, I take it that it's within the bounds of Reformed thought to derive the theological meaning from reading the text in a historical-grammatical way without committing to a belief that the text is reporting events in a modern "newspaper" way?
Yes, that's a right way to think about it. If you are interested, there was PCA Study Report on this 2000 that laid out various position acceptable within the PCA. www.pcahistory.org/pca/studies/creation/report.pdf
Thanks for your explanation very interesting and helpful.
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for stopping by.
Thank you. ✝️👍❤️
Scott, glad that you found the video helpful. All the best.
Confession is the best tool which relieve the guilty feeling which creates high pressure and burden in the soul,mind ,heart ,in the nervous system and in the whole body. Confession ,forgiving others and blessing others may seems to be very hard in human life. But when we abide to the words of Jesus we get back the heavenly peace and joy in soul and healthy body. That is why Jesus said i am the way life and truth . If we confess forgive and bless others without question we can see the Kingdom of God and feel the presence of God.This is cristianity of cristians by crist.
Joseph, thanks for stopping by. Just to clarify, while I agree with you on the nature and necessity of confessing sin both to God and to others. The video lecture is concerned with the need of corporate confessions of faith for the church as a means of witnessing to the whole council of God and preserving the purity and peace.
Keep going brother, the series is edifying.
Your channel is seriously under rated...
Thanks, Yakov. Glad the video was helpful.
Would you say that the following might be a fairly accurate representation of a certain "Erasmusian spirit" working in a sort of tension against Calvin and friends--particularly those who used to be priests--or would say this is completely the confused product of a confused layman who's completely misunderstood the Zeitgeist of the Reformation? Here goes: Erasmian Spirit: "I began with the elevation of man and his will. As the measure of all things, man is a creature who can claw his way closer and closer to truth with greater and greater clarity. But when this elevated will of mine applies its methodology to Scripture, the crystal clear message is that there is nothing good in man's will, there is no mind truly seeking God. Indeed, an entire religion of monergism emerges with utter clarity. But how can this be? What has happened? Also, with such clarity, what need is there of Popes? Does this plain Gospel not speak for itself? But wait...if this Gospel be true, what need is there of mass? And therefore of priests? And therefore of...me?? Something is wrong, but I know not what...The mass is the sacrifice I've vowed to God and the church to carry out...Do I now renounce this? For better or worse, I am what I am, a Catholic priest. Here I stand, I can do no other." And contrary to this Erasmian spirit, might a convinced and convicted reformer answer like this: Reformer:. "Erasmus! Stop clinging to the idolatry of your will and submit to Scripture!" To which the more Catholic voice on the other side of his shoulder might reply:. "Yes, stop clinging to what's in you and DO what's in you! Let your faith work out in sweet tender love a more viscously full throated defense of the church and chop down these totally depraved madmen! Stop straddling the fence!" And so on and so on...
Would you say Calvin would call someone like me--an Episcopalian convert for the general reasons mentioned in the comments--something like a "half Nicodemite"? Also, given Rome's actions such as Trent and rebuke of the Jansenists, would Calvin consider any modern manifestations of Rome to be valid Christianity (eg, orders with high predestination views, such as Augustinians or Thomists)?
For Calvin a Nicodemite was one who did not live by their convictions by continuing to attend Mass. It was an error fairly particular to the period. Calvin would considered the RCC in deep error even after the modifications of Vatican II, but his critique was always focused much more on the Church leadership than the people. He considered Rome a defective form of the Church, but not top to bottom apostate. You can see this in that he did not repudiate his own Baptism, and he would continue to cite medieval figures favorably, such as Bernard, even when he disagreed on important points with regard to the Reformation.
Speaking of the Jesuits and Jansenists, Molina and Calvin, and WLC, there are some telltale signs that the notion of time might more fundamentally underlie the debate than the apparently most salient "total depravity vs free will" tug of war. Specifically, what I mean to say is it's perhaps no accident that one of Craig's metaphysical specialties is the nature of time. Approaching theological issues with a background of atheistic upbringing and mathematics gives me a perspective that most folks would consider eccentric, but one thing a math student does fairly well is constructing systems to reconcile bundles of statements which may seem in tension but which nonetheless contain no formal contradictions, and the solution often involves routes which seem counterintuitive. My *impression* of Calvin's views on eternity involves the history of the elect and reprobate from Adam until Jesus returns being somewhat set in stone. Perhaps not every single event in a fatalistic sense, but definitely the question of who is regenerate and who is not. Like, regarding the "Book of Life (and of Death, by "inescapable inference")", it is pretty much signed, sealed, and delivered, as if all flowing from the Father's decree, as a first cause (almost analogous to how the fate of the universe would ultimately flow fatalistically from the cause of a Newtonian deistic God's initial decree). If, however, he consciously held rigorously to such a vision, I would have expected his system to drive him bonkers when faced with the story of Cornelius, or I would have expected him to double down into some kind of extreme hyper-Calvinism. But, no, he carried on with his usual straightforward graceful exegesis, with no indication of strain or alarm. Surely, tho, the same instincts that cause him to revolt against prayers for the dead would forbid any thoughts of Cornelius' regeneration being in any way "caused" by his subsequent baptism. OTOH, Luther seems to be one of the first theologians to make a clear case for the "temporal warping" effects of the sacraments, particularly baptism. So perhaps Calvin, influenced by Luther, allowed for some mystery there? If my understanding of time is correct, then there is absolutely no problem with saying that God wrought Cornelius' regeneration in the baptism he Later received (I'm sure Luther would have said it differently, so much so that I should probably be burned at the stake merely for daring to propose such a comment for discussion purposes on social media...but, alas, being burned for constructing systems that give all the right answers but for all the wrong reason is the cross the mathematically-minded adult convert--raised in the context of the very free thinking atheism made possible by the divorce of church and state Henry's Reformation ultimately led to--must bear in theological discussion
My dilemma: 1. "Calvinism" (or what I would even call Augustinianism or Paulism)--or being convicted of sin via Scripture, with a sense of being an enemy of the Sovereign Master of not only every atom of the universe but even the Author of the logic/mathematics that underlies physics and reality that terrifies the soul to flee empty-handed to Jesus--was the manner in which I was converted to the faith, and that's one of those things where, "once you see it you can't unsee it" 2. Study of the Reformation and church history led me to a belief in the church and apostolic succession (necessary, I felt, because of the VAST differences one can come to in theology with TINY differences in starting assumptions, and I came to consider "little t tradition" as an unspoken rejection of the supreme importance of this), and my belief in the mass and the sacraments seemed to be corollaries of the "big T" 3. Reconciling 1 and 2 seems nearly impossible. At the time, I considered my options to be Anglicanism or Roman Catholicism, and I felt like even though it would be possible to play word games with 1 in order to be within the bounds of Trent, but I figured deep down within, I'd basically be "of another spirit" than Rome 4. Unfortunately, in practice, pretty much nobody in Episcopalianism thinks like me. Like, in practice, my Anglo Catholic church is basically a solution to the problem of "How do we keep this beautiful mass and nifty sacraments without any of the pesky sin and guilt that Rome wants to saddle us with?" 5. So now I'm starting to see my options as A. accept that I'm a natural born heretic and praise God for giving the Anglicans a big enough umbrella to cover even the likes of me, B continue to evaluate if I really am necessarily of a different spirit than Rome, or C some yet undiscovered third option
Given what you have said here you might want to check out the ACNA. I would also note that the Reformation does not reject apostolic succession entirely. They only reject that it is a succession of office rather than a succession of doctrine.
Would you say historical theology inclines one to take a consistent deeply entrenched ultra-clearly defined position while watching all these controversies play out, or would you say the impulse is to take more of a broader more open perspective with a general attitude of "Meh, what's a few anathemas and burning stakes among friends?"
I think it is largely determined by one's broader perspective. Historical theology does force you to reckon with both complex positions in the past and the diversity of doctrinal expression in the Christian tradition. I think it should push one to greater clarity of thought while also seeing that faithful Christians can often disagree on important point this side of glory. It can encourage both firm conviction and humility, which are often pitted against teach other in our day.
Also, above all, I must thank you for your patience in dealing with my comments, which are admittedly somewhat outside the bounds of the video. This is a great channel and a useful resource for me as I try to think through some of the cognitive dissonance in my religious convictions
Thanks, Wayne. I am glad that you are finding the videos helpful. On the eternity point, I would recommend Thomas Weinandy's The Trinity: Eternity and Time. He is a Catholic theologian who expresses the traditional view of God and eternity quite clearly.
@@kjdrake3832 As far as I can tell, "eternity" is one of those concepts like, eg, the hypostatic union, where there's a "verbal boundary" to the playing field (eg "Christ is one person with two natures"), and where it's still somehow possible to "fall out of bounds" based on emphasis. Like, one could be *accused* of Nestorianism via statements like "Mary is not 'mother of God' because she only gave birth to his human nature" (even though the suspected Nestorian would almost certainly profess the orthodox person/nature distinction, and per conventional theological sparring techniques probably counter that his accuser is Eutychian). This idea of something being "wrong" just because of directions it *could* be taken is endlessly frustrating to students of mathematics. For example, I can't tell you how many times I've had discussions about Descartes that's followed this pattern: Me: Clearly Descartes is correct, because how could someone who didn't exist possibly be capable of thought Buddy: You're a heretic, Drake! How could you possibly base objective reality on subjective experience?? Me: What are you talking about? There ain't no "basing" on nothing. But it's simply true that you can't have the one without the other... Buddy:. You know what, I FEEL like your wallet would be better served as my property than yours, so I'm just gonna take it... And what makes things worse is, not only does so much of theology seem to hang on a VERY fine thread, but there's a sort of full-throated polemic that involves holding one's opponent to one's perception of how his position would pan out in the extreme. For example, if Calvin had a negative opinion of Descartes, I suspect he would look at that conversation with my buddy and have a perception like "Look at the absolute madness of Drake, ranting and raving about thought and existence, mindlessly incanting "I think therefore I am", so obstinately devoted to his superstition of being able to conjure reality with his mind, that his interlocutor's pleas for sanity fell on ears deafened by who knows what manner of delusion, as if to silence him by thinking him out of existence...."
If by some miracle my understanding of eternity is correct, then the "final verdict" (on the theologies, not the men), is then that the Jesuits are fundamentally and substantially correct in both faith and practice (though I would word things slightly differently in the free will department), the Jansenists were correct in practice but their doctrine is garbled somewhat, and the Calvinists are, well, just plain wrong (not saying it can't be a valid expression of Christianity if the practitioners don't fall too deeply into presumption, emphasis on the PRE). Of course, my theory can't possibly be correct, because I'd be trying to say I'm somehow wiser than Calvin, Pascal, and even Molina (in a hair splitting sense)...and I'm a mere Drake...so there's surely no reason to fully work this idea out on paper, bc it basically must be wrong
On this, the Jansenist and Calvinist argument with traditional Molinism was not some much about eternity but the conditions of divine knowledge and grace. The Molinist ultimately, according to the Jansenist and Calvinist, see God's grace as based upon some modal knowledge of the creature. According to the Molinists, God grants grace on the basis of human action under certain conditions by middle knowledge. While, the Jensenists and Calvinists, in general, hold that grace is given wholly independent of the creature's qualities. The Jesuit position was deeply controversial in the Catholic Church beyond the Jansenists. The Dominicans following Aquinas vehemently opposed their position with a much more Augustinian doctrine to the point where the pope had to tell them to stop arguing about it.
I absolutely agree about the "theme" of the argument. My contention is that the Calvinistic & Jansenistic concept of eternity sorta "force their hand". I am not a fan of the "middle knowledge/counterfactual" framework of the Jesuits (though apparently WLC is?), but I think it allows them to follow the Catholic religion consistently
As a Drake it's only to be expected that I would think myself qualified--with a mere mathematics BA--to surpass the great Blaise Pascal in reconciling the Calvinists and the Jesuits, but I think the "eternal/temporal" distinction is the obvious solution. I mean, for real, check this out:. The way Calvin thought of eternity, being a lawyer rather than a mathematician, would be, eg, in the case of the Incarnation, the Word existed from eternity PAST, then "came DOWN from Heaven" became born of the Blessed Mother, and for some 33 years time, had to settle with being a bit lower than the Angels (because having a human nature is a bit of a divine drag, he had to "forget"all of the wicked cool omniscience he PREVIOUSLY had, and his radical omnipotent infinite bench press may have suffered, if for no other reason than the manger couldn't contain that many plates). See the problem when we look at eternity as an infinitely extending number line? See how this messes up his understanding of Justification? He saw our declaration of righteousness--rightfully based wholly on the merits of Christ--as coming LITERALLY BEFORE the foundation of the world (in the predestining election, then LATER at the cross, and LATER at regeneration, etc). And hence, he saw Sanctification as essentially flowing forward in time from Justification. And, so of course it made the passages that make it seem like you can fall away sound "wonky" (eg, you have to introduce some post hoc hermeneutic like "well, they never really WERE (past tense) saved"). Eternity is rather bewildering for us temporal ol' fools with beginnings, but strictly speaking, it's something we "look forward to" (as ye olde Creed doth say). Calvin saw himself as a pure Augustinian. Thing is, though, sure, St. Augustine spoke rather "loudly" of predestination and grace. But he also believed in the church and the sacraments. And, yes, Grace, Church, and Sacrament can be a rather bewildering trinity to hold in our minds. But that sort of tension is just part of Christian life. That said, the Christian is by no means required to believe straight up contradictions. And I think the key to accepting Augustinian predestination in such a way that allows us to maintain belief in the essential nature of church and sacraments WITHOUT contradiction is to put aside a "rigorously ordered number line" concept of eternity (and hence, a rigorously ordered ordo salutis) and accept, for example, that at the sacraments, where we temporal creatures have an encounter with eternal God, weird things happen to our sense of time
Wayne, Just a quick comment on this. Calvin would not have conceived of eternity in the way you described. He, along with the broader early modern and medieval tradition, thought of eternity as utter transcendence of time without succession. Time itself is a creature, and sequence, even infinity sequence, does not apply to the eternal God. The language of "before" and "after," Calvin would see as accommodations to human language. On the Augustine point, Calvin was deeply engaged with his work and drew on him extensively in the concept of grace and predestination but also self-conscious rejected his positions on the Church and sacraments while building off them in some form.
He wouldn't *claim* to have conceived of eternity the way I described...but I'm not too sure how closed off from persuasion from his supralapsarian successors he would be, or how open he would be to anything involving a human in the present day affecting something in the past. It's really somewhat of a mystery to think of how folks from centuries past might have thought of the infinite. Modern-ish philosophers like Russell pretty much flat out accused St Thomas Aquinas of not being able to conceive of an infinite series
I am pretty convinced that the "Spirit of Trent" was in opposition to reformed doctrine, and absolutely was not meant to be any sort of cryptic nod of approval to it--which is why I finally felt more "honest" becoming Episcopalian instead of Catholic--but had that polemic not been so present at Trent, I'm convinced that a formulation of Justification to which Luther, Calvin, and the Pope could've toasted in agreement could've easily come about. Consider this Canon of Trent (one of many often presented as a cut and dry anathema of the gospel): If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema First, it's clear that the Catholics are not merely using a different definition of Justification, but a different concept, altogether. I mean, in "Protestantese" Justification is pretty much either Yay or Nay, not something that comes in degrees. The underlying theme of Trent is that whether one makes it past St Peter's gatekeeping is dependent on the level of sanctification obtained. Many Protestants would reject that notion outright, but I contend that in an indirect manner, such a concept is implicit in Reformed doctrine. Beyond the "practical syllogism" that legit Justification entails legit Sanctification, there is also the fact that Heaven would be a rather stinky place if it consisted of only snow covered dung hills. Both camps propose Sanctification, "temporal justice", or just plain old Christian living as a pre death mechanism for significant dung removal. Whether the remainder is to be done away with via *some* purging "at the hour of our death (or millions of years thereafter) as if by fire" or is accomplished instantly by swapping our filthy sin-ridden meat suits for super cool ultra sin-resistant resurrection bodies must ultimately be conceded to be somewhat a matter of speculation (and I would challenge those super duperly rooted on the Protestant side to ask themselves in what sense their very identity would persist if their post mortem "change of attire" were extra drastic). I think a solid motif for bridging the two camps is the notion that when God speaks, He creates. Therefore, if God makes an eternal decree such as "John Doe is righteous", then in time, "John Doe IS righteous", a divinely created truth, even if the basis for the decree was the righteousness of Christ rather than John Doe, himself
Sorry. Wasn't trying to be "controversial", I was just wondering if you thought Calvin's theology entailed a pretty rigorous and extensive Christology and "Doctrine of God" that would've required a lengthy catechesis process, especially for folks like unchurched 21st century Americans, and whether he therefore would've opposed "quick" bouts of "gospeling" (by folks who hadn't necessarily been ordained or "vetted" by local church officials) with the goal of quick conversions
Wayne, not a problem. I just hadn't had time to respond yet. On this, Calvin held to a quite simple gospel of grace through Christ, with clear yet basic understanding of God, sin, Chirst, grace, faith implied by it. The catechetical process into more mature understanding of the doctrine of God, Christology, and other important aspects of the faith would follow. As one moved from milk to solid food. The issue for Calvin would not have been the speed of the conversion but its genuineness. For this reason, he definitely would have opposed certain tactics of evangelism coming for the 2nd Great Awakening. He also would have supported missionary and evangelistic work in concert with the Church officers not a go-to-alone entrepreneurial method. However, he was willing to see the work of the Spirit in a variety of contexts. Hope this addressing your questions.
Yes, thank you. I saw the original comment was Deleted, so I figured I'd overstepped some "unwritten rules of propriety" lol. Definitely not my intention, I'm just trying to square my (admittedly amateurish) understanding of bona fide Calvinistic theology with the many flavors of modern American Evangelicalism that seem to claim him
@@wayned803 Not sure what happened there. I didn't delete the comment. I am happy to engage with questions.
The Reformation is definitely a can of worms that I'm not quite sure is compelling me to study once more. A "500th Anniversary Reformation Study" meant to bolster our Protestant convictions is ultimately led to me receiving the Left foot of disfellowship from a Reformed Baptist church. There were probably hurt feelings on both sides, and I was seen as a traitor against Grace and possibly even America for privately meeting with a Catholic priest to discuss the faith, HOWEVER, I never had anything akin to the Assurance our Confession said I was supposed to (and really, I'm not even sure how I slipped through the cracks for membership, anyway, bc I certainly never claimed any assurance of salvation), and in some sense I almost felt betrayed by the Baptist church (and "freedom of religion"), because "where were they when I was growing up an atheist"...when the dust settled from that punting, I found I landed among the Episcopalians. I'm happy enough where I'm at, I love the formal, traditional liturgy. But I almost feel like it's more of a "general purpose catholic chapel" (or a "non denominational mass/house of prayer) than a church, because once we exit the big red doors, we're "gone till next Sunday"
Actually.......we're all Drakes, here, and the internet is kinda anonymous, anyway, so I might as well toss out a bit more of my background, as it might illustrate some of the psychology behind some of my questions. So, anyway, before becoming a Reformed Baptist, I was a bit of what one might call a "heroin enthusiast". At the time of my "conversion", I was off heroin, but on methadone (outpatient treatment at a clinic). And since I was off heroin I considered myself no longer an addict. But, right about the time I was made a member of the Baptist church, I noticed other members complaining about the clinic, saying it should be shut down & such. Prior to this, I never mentioned being on methadone, but it hadn't occurred to me that the congregation would regard it as sinful. Afterwards, I deliberately kept it secret, because I found out the hard way that I couldn't easily get off the stuff, and I came to see my inability to get off the stuff as proof I wasn't truly saved. It wasn't much later that the Reformation Study came up & I ended up "departing" the Baptists. Not too long after that, I actually Did manage to get off methadone. But it was a brutal process. I ended up hospitalized after roughly 15 days with no sleep. Also, the "victory" over this sin wasn't the clear cut glorious Union with Christ I had imagined it would be. I was without a church at the time, and I ultimately found the gym--more than God--was what I was relying on to get clean. So in some sense, I traded the methadone addiction for a weight lifting addiction. In any event, though, the dust has somewhat settled from that, so I suppose now I'm trying to reapproach study of the Reformation without the feeling of being a "false brother" hiding an obvious besetting sin, as it were
Howdy sir...one Drake to another (R1A y-DNA club, amirite or amirite?), do you know any clear cut sources on Calvin's sacramental theology? My understanding is this is an important difference between Calvin and Augustine. I'm probably oversimplifying, but my impression is whereas Augustine would say the sacraments would work "ex opera operato" through God for *whoever* partook, Calvin would say they're only "effectual" for the elect (eg, the elect would become regenerate at baptism, but the unelect would basically only "get wet"). Ofc, this impression is based on a lot of confusing/contradictory accounts I've seen
Hi, Wayne. There is a similarity between Calvin and Augustine in that they both focus on sacraments as signs which God uses to bless the Church. Calvin does focus on the faith of the participant as necessary to receive the benefit since faith is what unites to Christ, and this union is the source of the blessing of the sacraments. For some of the most up-to-date scholarship on Calvin’s view of the sacraments, I would recommend the sections on him in Riggs, Baptism in the Reformed Tradition and Riggs, The Lord’s Supper in the Reformed Tradition. For the Lord’s Supper specifically, Mathison’s Given for You is good and a new book by Lyle Bierma Fount of Pardon and New Life is likely worth looking at for in-depth discussion on Baptism. See the links below for these works. I don’t know enough about Augustine’s doctrine to say one way or another. I suspect that the ex opere operato formula would not specifically apply since this was a much later way of forming the question, but it is possible. The Humphries chapter below on Augustine’s sacramentology might help. Riggs, Baptism in the Reformed Tradition: www.amazon.com/Baptism-Reformed-Tradition-Historical-Practical/dp/0664225314/ref=sr_1_3?crid=HB695BTH4R2K&keywords=riggs+the+reformed+doctrine&qid=1682945783&sprefix=riggs+the+reformed+doctrin%2Caps%2C110&sr=8-3 Riggs, The Lord’s Supper in the Reformed Tradition: www.amazon.com/Supper-Reformed-Tradition-Columbia-Theology/dp/0664260195/ref=sr_1_1?crid=HB695BTH4R2K&keywords=riggs+the+reformed+doctrine&qid=1682945783&sprefix=riggs+the+reformed+doctrin%2Caps%2C110&sr=8-1 Mathison’s Given for You: www.amazon.com/Given-You-Reclaiming-Calvins-Doctrine/dp/087552186X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=given+for+you+mathison&qid=1682946353&sprefix=given+for+you+mat%2Caps%2C116&sr=8-1 Bierma Fount of Pardon and New Life: www.amazon.com/Font-Pardon-New-Life-HISTORICAL/dp/0197553877/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=lyle+bierma&qid=1682945731&sprefix=lyle+bie%2Caps%2C115&sr=8-5 Humphries, “St. Augustine of Hippo” in Christian Theologies of the Sacraments: academic.oup.com/nyu-press-scholarship-online/book/18006/chapter-abstract/175854539?redirectedFrom=fulltext
Hi KJ, thank you very much for your reply. I've been studying the Reformation lately. As an amateur it's a bit overwhelming, but one sacramental pattern that I'm seeming to notice is, if you draw a curve from Zurich to Geneva to Strasbourg to Wittenberg (eg, like some sort of "wonky C" or w/e lol), you go from "purely symbolic" from Zuric folks like Zwingli and Bullinger to "magical" (for lack of a better word) in Luther's Wittenberg, and I see folks like Calvin and Bucer occupying both the theological and geographic middle points. Like, I think the general idea is Calvin trying to maintain the purest monergism and excluding human agency all while avoiding in his understanding of regeneration the type of "decisionalism" that Zwinglianism might be susceptible to and the type of "sacramentalism" that Lutheranism might be susceptible to
I can understand the sense of being overwhelmed. The controversy over the nature of the Supper is complex. There is a lot more theological depth to the debate than is normally recognized. For instance, I think Zwingli is less symbolic than people generally recognize. His later works FIdei Ratio and Fidei Expositio come much closer to Calvin's view. Bullinger and Calvin actually come to a significant agreement on the Supper in a statement called the Consensus TIgurinis in 1549. The work by Riggs on the Lord's Supper in the Reformed tradition does a really good job of laying out the different positions.
Imo, the most overwhelming aspect, beyond the theology, is putting myself in the position of the common man in the pews. Eg, I probably would've been something like a half literate peasant in whatever English village my strand of Drakes happened to reside. I would have no control over the leanings of my particular clergy or which particular King or Queen happened to be in office. Assuming I was born well before the start of Henry's Reformation, I would've been devoutly Catholic to begin with, and it's unclear how much of the "oscillating theology" I would've even begun to have been able to understand or how easy to "manipulate" I would've been. What I *like* to imagine is that I would've accepted my limitations, swallowed the fact that regardless of which theology was true, and by grace of God set aside considerations of my personal salvation as secondary to acceptability to God of the worship I offered
Eg regardless of whether I became a hardcore proto puritan or a recusant cryptocatholic with a priest hidden in my barn, I hope the glory of God would've been my ultimate motivation
These are great lectures, the English Reformation is a fascinating time. Thanks for the videos Dr. Drake, it brings me back to your church history courses at RU.
Thanks, Zach. Hope all is well at Redeemer.
I really appreciate these lectures. I love the whole reformation era. Your pace is good and you break it all down for me. I may have questions. Thanks.
You are very welcome.
I love that you have power point. Very helpful. Thanks.
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for stopping by.
you completely misunderstand what happened during Chalcedon. It was Nestor's followers revange, they claimed Cyril was teaching monophysics although he tought miaphysics. In the end of your video you reiterated exact definition of miaphysics as tought by Cyril. Chalcedon in contrary advocates for duophysics which is Nestorianism after renaming a few termins in it...
Thanks for stopping by Agasi. I think we have different interpretations of the Council. I am coming for a pro-Chalcedonian perspective, and you seem to be taking the miaphysite position. I do not think that Nestorianism is accurately described as dyophysitism but rather that Christ has two hypostases. One historical indication that Chalcedon is not Nestorian is that it did not lead to reunion with the Nestorian Church of the East, who considered it insufficient.
@@kjdrake3832 I am coming from pro historical accuracy perspective. Chalcedon was a coupe against Christianity led by papa Leo and number of papas following them to gain power above all other local and foreign churches. All these narratives about physics were intended to distruct attention and were actually fabricated, they took Cyril's terminology to cover up their Nestorian and Arian ideas. But again, that's secondary thing, the main idea was to promote papa.
hello Dr. Drake I'm doing my M.Div studies this really got my attention and nice rich content too thanks a lot 🙏
Glad it was helpful.
That was a really great overview & helps understand the lead up to the reformation a bit