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WOAH WAIT HOLD THE FUCKING PHONE, are you THE davidwusoftdev? if so, YOOOOOOO, I liked your games very much, thank you very much for making them. With that said I do find 2 flaws with your comment, the first one is the concept of being someone famous not because they made good music, but because they are a well known influencer (in this case, a Vtuber) just making music for her fans, as a musician (and specially one under contract in a big company) you want your music to reach beyond your already established audience, in terms of quality and specially popularity, you don't want to just please your audience. On the vtuber sphere, there's a quality I like to call "simpball" (a spin on the word simp and the phrase "soft-ball") amongst devout and even casual followers of a Vtuber in particular, and this causes a wave of just bland and not meaningful positive comments that make it seem like track was universally beloved. I don't want to be too mean, but I get the feeling that these type of "Oh, but if the fans enjoyed it, then it means that it's good" comments just serve to excuse the lack of grasp within their musical abilities. The second flaw is one I gotta call you out directly, no, she didn't do something different from the norm, she's a vtuber with an Anime-style avatar and that means that the world of eurobeat music is way more tied to the her Image than an average TH-camr (like Ludwig to give an example of a random ass youtuber), meaning that just doing a watered-down take on this genre is not alternative in any sense of the word, it's only alternative because it looks alternative when you just compare it to other Hololive EN original songs, many of them just being very formulaic J-pop numbers. At the end of the day, Hololive is about showing you the pretty anime girls, give those avatars to people who are experienced livestreamers and are capable of operating in a more professional environment, creating a fanbase that revolves around those personalities, and finally selling them products, and among those products, music, Artistry comes waaaay after being a business, an entertainment business, but a business nevertheless (with the exceptions being talents Like Iofi/Ina/Raora because they can draw really well and consistent and they do drawing streams, and also ERB because she seems like a really fucking talented singer).

@@ToisokUWU About your first point, she said herself she made the song and commissioned the MV as a gift for her fans. It was never about "becoming a famous musician". Remember these talents are streamers first and musicians second (with the exception of those who have signed with big record labels like Calli or Suisei, but this isn't about them), so they have slightly different goals as artists. There may be a will to aim for a broader audience in the future, but I don't think it's the main intention just yet. One more thing to keep in mind is that IRyS is a vocalist, not a composer (she has said on stream she can't read a music sheet), so any musical criticism is not really on her. About the second point, my comment was specifically about her choosing eurobeat as the genre for her song. In the Vtuber sphere, that's not a common genre (I've only seen ONE other eurobeat original Vtuber song before). The norm is J-pop style music, just as you mentioned. My point was that she went in a different direction. Where 99% of the songs are J-pop, she's the 1% that tried doing eurobeat. I have to admit, however, that I haven't gone out of my way to search for VTuber eurobeat songs outside of hololive. At least I haven't seen any recommended by the YT algorithm. If you happen to know of any, please let me know as I'd love to check them out!

Thank you for the feedback David, my ears are pretty sensitive so I tend to mix everything quiter than your usual YT video, that's something I gotta get better when it comes to editing, thanks for leaving those additional notes.

Very much agree. Choco is my favorite by far (with Kaela 2nd) and trying to form a build for endless on stage 3 night is a nightmare but after supercollab its buttersmooth

Woah the game gets updates?! lol

@@ToisokUWU can't tell if you are being serius or sarcastic,but apparently yes!

​@@emiliavalentino7226why so serious

Thank you for pointing out that there are people who help with writing the Vtuber's songs, I was under the impression that they (the talents) were either the only or the main force behind the songwriting outside of the producers, I didn't really do any research about the people who help with writing the tracks because this video was not intended to be a deep video essay, it was just putting out my conclusions after reviewing their tracks, and when I review their songs (or really anybody's musical output) I don't care about checking the writing credits because I'm not interested in becoming like a compendium for music, I'm a simple guy who likes to express his thoughts on songs and/or projects (projects in this case being EPs, LPs, Compilations, etc). Still, I Gotta be Real, I have a lot of issues with this comment: 1.- I appreciate the amount thought that went into this comment, and I have no problem in concept with people disagreeing with my arguments, but mentioning how Other pop musicians use writers on their songs is completely irrelevant for this discussion because it's not about IF they (the talents from hololive EN) are using outside help for structuring their songs, I made the comment about the songs being bland because the songwriting IS bland in a majority of cases for these girls, If the songwriting wasn't bland I would talking about how exciting their music feels (you can read more about this on my AOTY page). When I said that "Cover doesn't hire songwriters, they hire performers" I was talking about the Vtubers themselves, not the extra people that help with the songwriting, I'm sorry that I completely forgot that this IS a thing IRL and didn't make it more clear in the video. (Yes I just copy pasted this section from another comment lol, still fits). 2.-The "talents have to fund the projects" argument is not a good one, correct me If I'm wrong here, but, Isn't Cover corp like Number 1 in the world of Vtubers when it comes to making money and investing that money into the talents themselves? plus, these girls still do covers which have their own investment that needs to be done in order to secure the rights and make the shiny music videos. Plus, that actually feeds into my main point, if these girls DID invest a good amount of their time (and as we all know, time is money) and earned cash, there would be a better chance for them to make good music, but because they don't, the Originals they do end up making come out as...well, mid, sometimes positive mid like Ame, Fauna and Kronii, MID mid like Moom and IRyS, and sometimes so mid it's bad and even awful like Kiara and Bae. I really get the feeling that these girls won't invest into music unless they get a return that makes it worth it in terms of cash, which to me, speaks about their passion for music as an art-form (btw, we live in an age where guys like me with no corpo budget can make original music because we can pirate music software like Logic Pro X, these girls are not broke, they are pretty darn successful and their company has their backs). 3.-Pls, don't make Björk an unreasonable standard in this case because I literally just named her alongside other female singers simply to name examples of better singers. She's a fucking amazing singer, but she's not beyond criticism. This is besides the point here, but I would recommend NOT investing into Mori's music just because she tries hard, her music is god-awful (again, you can read more about my thoughts in my AOTY page). 4.- "Not only that, but the entire emotional arc of idol music and culture is seeing someone start from nothing and gradually build up their skills into pop perfection. The improvement over time is literally the point." They are corpo Vtubers, Hololive English (the most successful English speaking Vtuber branch in the world right now) is NOT starting from nothing, Cover doesn't have 0 standards per say, they are not high, but they are more than 0, they mention in their audition application thingy: "Please tell us if you have any other skills/talents that would help you as a streamer (eg. music, drawing, voice acting, audience interaction, etc.)." Clearly they don't hire No talent randos (and yes Demondice has talent, that doesn't mean she uses that talent to make good music). Also, how can you look at talent like Fauna, Moom, Kronii, Ame and Ina and say "gradually build up their skills into pop perfection"? they are not trying to be better musicians, these are good girls and trust me, if they were trying, we would see WAY more originals from them. It's a meme, but it's true, these are not Idols, they are comedians, and I'm sure they are going to be just fine if they continue to be these cute internet personalities and that's fine, I love Hololive EN, that doesn't mean everything they touch is gonna be gold. This is by far the dumbest argument you made on this comment. 5.- "But I honestly think the problem is more that western vtubing culture doesn't really value music that highly in general and it doesn't reward artistic experimentation and vision. It loosely copies elements of the JP culture but mostly treats music as a fun afterthought rather than something worth taking seriously that can actually enhance the character and the streams." You say that you disagreed with my arguments, but then you proceed to write this, which is almost word for word something I argued for on reason 2 of the video ( 4:10 ), I just wouldn't use the term "Western Vtubing Culture", to me it's not a matter where they came from, most of the music I love comes from the west, and I'm sure there's great Vtuber music out there that I'm simply not aware of, which is why I only talked about Hololive EN music. TL;DR DJ KHALED WE DA BEST MUSIC ANOTHA ONE.

@ToisokUWU Thanks for getting back to me. Apologies if I came out of the gate a bit hot. I'm used to the girls getting uncharitable coverage, so it's easy to assume the worst. I will concede I misinterpreted a few parts of your video for sure. It happens. I do feel like I didn't clarify a few points as much as I should have for the sake of brevity. To clear up a few things quickly: 1. The relevance of hired songwriters is, put simply, that it strongly discourages the talents from picking up a DAW or instrument outside of vocals or basic mixing. If your management is going to put you in contact with producers like Teddyloid and Giga (who are some of the biggest names in J-Pop), then you are probably going to save your cash and hire them rather than go through the process of learning to make your own stuff from scratch. You get to make music your fans will probably like while focussing your efforts entirely on the singing or dancing or broad creative elements. Not to say that all vtubers have that attitude (see Ike Eveland from NijiEN and a lot of other smaller streamers for a counterexample), this is specific to Hololive and their connections. 2. I used Bjork as a stand-in for "generally agreed upon good singer" rather than a standard of perfection. I'm not even much of a Bjork fan personally, I was mainly trying to make the point that good singing isn't necessary for good music. In retrospect, this was strawmanning what you were saying, so feel free to disregard. 3. Similarly, I was describing idol music as going from 0 to perfection as a broad category, rather than literally. Obviously all music has a degree of "artist improves over time" as a part of their musical story, but idol culture puts a lot of importance in celebrating those milestones and the fans following the journey, something I maintain that vtubing carries over, both in the east and west. They don't have to be cute, mild-mannered and perfect all the time to follow the template of an idol journey, kind of thing. Anything more than that, and we're essentially going to be essay posting over fairly granular differences. Full disclosure, I'm pretty deep into vtuber music in general, so most of the time I'm comparing it to other vtuber music rather than the broader field of all music generally. This is not how most people approach things, so I can understand why we can come to different conclusions. I like reading liner notes, following the producers and songwriters in the scene and watching the way marketing roll-outs are handled, which biases my perspective towards giving the benefit of the doubt. I also just unironically like pop music and find it interesting, so there's that. Hope this makes more sense.

When I said that "Cover doesn't hire songwriters, they hire performers" I was talking about the Vtubers themselves, not the extra people that help with the songwriting, I'm sorry that I completely forgot that this IS a thing IRL and didn't make it more clear in the video.

Who? I'm interested OwO (Asking which talent makes fire music).

​@@ToisokUWU ​ @ToisokUWU omgg def hoshimachi suisei but the others also make rlly good ones I REALLY LIKE HOSHIMATIC PROJECT UNKOWN MOTHER GOOSE

@@ToisokUWU wait wait hoshou marine is rlly good too...

thats the point...with no upgrades or anything (just main weapon and character skills) they suck because they dont do ENOUGH damage and gets overrun very fast...while characters like gura and zeta has all you need in base form (healing,crowd control,damage) and kiara is S tier for new people because she has everything you need in base form of the character (speed,health,healing,dmg)

@@Gytis_Of_KFP_The_4th_PenKing wait no Zeta's damage is terrible, you can ask other players themselves, even with max upgrades it's hard to get a win with Zeta in Stage 3 Hard

Yeh i cannot beat stage 2 with zeta lv9 😂​@@blatantslander

15:25

Darude - Sandstorm

There was, but it’s unavailable bc of copyright

@@an_alienwashere is there a download or link anywhere to his video? I really wanted to watch it again

@@yourlocalfloatinglesbian I have the link to it, but it's unfortunately blocked in every country. I remember it used to not be blocked everywhere and I was still able to watch it with a VPN, but it's since been blocked everywhere.

@@kybry1347 well hey thanks. It's rough but maybe one day someone downloaded it somewhere and will link it

Why the long face 😂