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@@251richardhudson7 metal and any other music that wants to go deep into the dissonance is great for using these type of tunings! It would be interesting to think which tuning could be the most metal. 13 and 23 and the most "dissonant" on a way but they are almost more alien dissonant. 16, 21,24,29 could be metal, 17 for folk metal. (It's a project I hope to do one day as well)

@@ayerev1202 strange I find that often for diatonic music I prefer the sound of 19 or 26 or 31, or at least I appreciate the ways they modify the sound. And definitely a fan of just intonations.

Listening back, this tempering puts the chords in almost pure just intonation. The idea of the video was not the sound of an "Edo", but how to temper one to JI. But don't worry, a lot of people don't like the concordance of just intonations, 12 tone has a lot of movement in its sound and conditioning is strong

@@noahjordan1066 imo even if it is conditioning, it got chosen to be used for conditioning over a process of basically thousands of years because ultimately it sounded the best for most people. The collective conciousness or whatever you want to call it picked it because for it it sounded good. Just because we can split the octave in more intervals and we cand nerd it out with theory, at the end of the day it doesn't mean anything. lf i won't see these nutty octave splits in a random jingle, nursery rhyme, campfire song, national anthem, random bar or club, then it means it's dead music that doesn't really pull the emotions of the average guy. Someone played at some point a neutral interval and it sounded like dog poop, and it sounds like dog poop for most of us, even if you can find a lost irrelevant tribe that still keeps it. Bringing up conditioning is cope. If there was ever an equivalent for genetic fitness in music, whatever we have now in west is the best, the rest is youtube clickbaint and phd thesis subjects none will care about

@ayerev1202 ehh idk, we picked many throughout history, and when 12 was introduced it was regarded as sounding bad by many composers at the time. So using my ears also and history, I respectfully disagree

@@Yohrog thanks for listening and your comments! I will segment more music between the spoken parts in the future. I'm still learning how to improve the format so your comments are very helpful

@@GuitarTotality wow! Thanks for the information! Do you have a link or a title for more information?

Really? I would also like a reference for that! Sumer is believed to be a prominent prototype for modern society.

​@@noahjordan1066 I read numerous world history books from the late 1800s - 1950s. Sumerians first invented pictographs, then later, cuneiform writing. The pictographs were used to represent concepts in Sumerian culture at given times. Enlil, son of Anu, represented the Earth with a 7-equal-pointed star - 7 days of the week. This star also represented 7 equal pitches of music in Enlil's time. Later on, Babylonian culture took over the region utilizing the concept of the 12-equal-pointed star of Marduk - 12 hours, 12 months, 12 equal pitches in music, etc. All of this occured gradually over thousands of years. Sadly, the internet is only the equivalent of a magazine' worth of info - quality and quantity. The content found in many very thorough books is not simply found online. The closest I could find is this image of Enlil's 7-pointed Star: www.mesopotamiangods.com/symbols-of-the-gods-still-very-much-in-use-by-nations-world-leaders-religions-mason-of-today/ 🌎✌🎸🎶

@@zpc9225 I plan to do a long video on 26 soon too with some more thoughts and ideas. I wouldn't run because of the leads though, I find that expressive intonation is generally a bit more flexible melodically and with bends and the ear it shouldn't change too much the difficulty in navigating the leads (from my own perspective on leads at least!) Even with 26, bringing the 5ths up shouldn't be more than 10c, a few cents here or there can bring out the dynamics, in the end it's listening to your instrument most of all

@@noahjordan1066 You make a good point about how ultimately it comes down to how it sounds. Within a tolerance of 5-10 cents I never noticed any overtly discordant wolves or anything in 12. Just with 26 I'd be sharpening instead of flattening adjacent strings. In my case, I'd be more inclined to just go with a well temperament rather than full on just. An offset of about 5 cents should put me right where I want to be. That way it balances out. I suppose if one wanted to further refine this approach you could compromise the octave by moving the saddles. Perhaps like a stretched tuning on piano. -Just thinking aloud here. Anyway, thanks for the insight!

@zpc9225 yeah! My video was exploring one possibility that was more with one just triad, I haven't deeply analyzed all of well temperaments I've tried out. It just stared to sound good and I played. But I do want to do another video for my favorite one soon

@@noahjordan1066 Please do! I love hearing about your approach and ideas. I'm partial to 26 and 7 myself.

@@zpc9225 if I have financial luck I'd like to try 29! I had to sell my 15, 16, 17, 19, 20, 22 tone instruments :(

@@amj.composer thanks! I did not do the calligraphy they are shakuhachi scores my teacher made

@@Sevish thanks for listening! Glad you enjoyed it, at some point I will try to find out HOW close is the reality and what the inside perception is

@@zpc9225 thanks for the comments! I am very curious about how we are drawn to those structures as well and am interested to try to find some exceptions! Especially 6, 8 9 or 10 note scales

@@noahjordan1066 No doubt! Keep me posted if you find anything. 🙂Where did you say you were from again? It looks like a tropical paradise there.

@@zpc9225 will do! The video was shot in Mazunte on the coast of Oaxaca

When you form scales by stacking fifths (which describes A LOT of musical systems in the world), 5 and 7 have special mathematical properties that 4, 6, 8, 9 etc. do not, like only having two step sizes and distributing tones roughly symmetrically within an octave. The tunings found in gamelan result from tweaking the size of the fifth (making it either a bit sharper or significantly flatter than 702 cents). Flattening the fifth a moderate amount to 685 cents gives you 7-equal.

@elbschwartz yes! The stacking fifths does give you 5 and 7 note systems which vat depending on the fifth size. The roughly symmetrical positions are definitely a factor too. In the Fulani tambin and the Chopi timbila which are both approximately 7 equal, there is no fifth stacking in tuning or instrument design, however. Are gamelans tuned by stacking fifths?

thanks bruh

thank you!

@@markfdesimone they are tuned to something like gceag but in a 7edo version. Thanks! I'm glad you enjoy!

@@RememberGodHolyBible thank you for the correction about the terminology for the Pythagorean fifths. I agree that the Pythagorean third is not too high, but I do think that choice of third depends on musical ideals and goals and context. I personally prefer the just third to the Pythagorean, but having both is even better

@@RememberGodHolyBible I also don't think beating is bad. I also use generally acoustic instruments and there are many ways to play in 5-limit or higher that sounds great. I don't disagree with your points about Pythagorean basis, it is an excellent system that can be developed and continuously expanded. However, there are many ways of developing coherent musical systems based on various limits and interpretations, beating isn't bad, nor is lack of beating, 81/64 is a great third, so is 5/4, so is 400c, it depends entirely on the type of music you want to create

@@noahjordan1066 If one has both the 5/4 and the 81/64 as major thirds, then one cannot claim just intonation. Just intonation implies that every interval has a specific ratio and frequency that is just or right. To have multiple options for major thirds would then be a form of 5 limit rational intonation, for just intonation it really must be one option. The issue as I see it, is that people have confused the diminished fourth with the major third, and then started lusting after a system which not only sounds very out of tune, but is incoherent and unwieldly in the amount of notes needed to have a modulating system of pitches. As a result people have covered themselves in various equal temperaments and other prime number rational intonation scales, none of which are perfect by their own admission, so people bounce from one tuning system to another never being satistifed with any and never fully devoting themselves to one and always seeking that next tuning and nxt scale which "shows promise" only for the process to repeat again. The miccrotonal's darling right now is 31 edo, but no one that I have ever heard of has stated that 31 edo is just intonation. They don't claim meantone is. And they do not know of layouts that can make higher edos practical, and even they are not just, and it is all because people use this term just intonation and do not even know what is just. Some have discovered this, that the term just intonation is meaningless, and to them it is, because they are lost in the weeds because of the 5/4, it is really the main reason all the music in the world is out of tune, because people wish to hold onto the 5/4 as a major third. And I must say, the 5/4 is also not a Pythagorean diminished fourth. Even thoughh the two intervals are less than 2 cents different from one another, there is one very large quality about them makes them quite different to the ear. The diminished fourth is undertonal in nature, and the 5/4 is overtonal, and the ear can hear this quality. And yes, you can in some contexts fool the ear into hearing them as the same, but with testing in real music comparing one with the other, they are different, but neither are a major third. There are many tunings and rational intoantion schemes which can be interesting and beautiful at times in certain pieces. But true intonatoin, Pythagorean just intonatoin, is clean and clear and true to how we naturally hear music and intervals and is profoundly versatile in what it is able to express in terms of musical style. No other tuning has the coherence of true intonation. And it is not only coherent, but it can also be mapped onto fixed pitched instruments like harps and keyboards. This has not happened though because people are lost in the weeds of EDO's and the 5/4. There is so much yet to be discovered in true intonation and much of it has been under our noses, because all standard music notation is notating Pythagorean just intonation, yet we have never heard what is written, let alone all the things which could be written, taking advantage of double, triple quadruple sharps and flats, and taking advantage of enharmonic inequivalence in melody and harmony. There is a piece on my channel called The Last Words of David, I did not write this piece but merely entered it into MuseScore and tuned it. But the composer, being in the world of 12 tet misspelled half of the notes in the song, the entire second half of the piece is misspeleld. So in my version I spelled (and tuned) every note correctly according to common practice. The piece starts in E minor terrritory and ends in G major, in the original score but in my version, the sheet music is on screen, the piece modulate up and up and ends in Fx major, a comma higher than G. And when you understand what the words of the song are about, who said them and what he was speaking of, suddenly the correct spelling makes all the more sense and the music is quite powerful. The music does not sound weird or alien, it sounds perfectly normal, but perfectly in tune as it modulates up and up. 5 limit 7 limit and higher rational intonations cannot be mapped to a keyboard with a meaningful number of notes, in a layout that is functional and intuitive and ergonomic. And with a harp, forget it. But with Pythagorean just intonation you can do it on keyboards and to a large degree on harps as well. The end of lusting after 5 and 7 limit and higher , if one keeps following after that, is merging with machines and AI, everythiing being computerized, or if you stop before then, you have edos which are out of tune from your ideal, or you can only play in 2 or three keys per instrument. The 17 note vicinity that exists for every tonic chord, understanding functional harmony, and testing the boundaries of that. There is so much to be explored that is simply untouched by man because people have all sorts of wrong ideas about tuning, and the most damaging of them all is the notion of 5/4 being a pitch class of its own and also being the major third. I get it, that warm buzz of the major chord with the 5/4 as the third, I get the appeal, I advocated for it for ten years. But it just does not work coherently in music when put to the test, the system is revealed to be incoherent and out of tune compared with true intonation. I have found that letting go of the 5/4 as a pitch class has opened up a whole new world of music to me and one with much profound depth. I find myself frustrated that others are still caught where I was, seeking after the 5/4 or thinking it is at least an option of major third, which keeps one bouncing around in all sorts of tunings that are not solidly coherent.

@@RememberGodHolyBible just intonation doesn't not exclude the possibility of having various forms of a major third

@@RememberGodHolyBible I suggest you try some acoustic works, I do not agree that Pythagorean intonation sounds better than 5 or 7 limit just intonation. I think extended Pythagorean notation is great, but I personally dont like the sound of a Pythagorean triad. Those who like 5 limit harmony are not lost in the weeds, those who are lost in the weeds are those who claim that there is a best tuning. We each tune to how we hear and how we express. 5 limit harmony is obviously not why the whole world is out of tune, much of the world does not use 5 limit harmony. Please make some acoustic music outline your ideas, because midi compositions played by your computer are really not convincing either. I respect your decision for how you want to tune, but you needn't proselytize to me.

@@ossifrage6828 the strings are nylon. What type of inharmonic string would you recommend?

@noahjordan1066 I use regular guitar strings with alligator clips or you can take a clipping of a bass string fold it in half with pliers and clip it to the bass string than mess with placement many different sounds from banjoish to gong to kalimbaish

@@ossifrage6828 interesting I will see what I can come up with

@@ossifrage6828 thank you :)

@@RememberGodHolyBible as a requinto it's not a chordal instrument, but it has beautiful harmony, I have recordings of it I hope to turn into an album in a few months. I will actually be making a sister instrument to this for an album next year (basically two with this tuning to be played together)

@@RememberGodHolyBible you can hear an improvisation here instagram.com/reel/C75O9KlPv6M/?igsh=MTJnZ3l6c2JhbnRzZg==

@@RememberGodHolyBible hopefully I can release some musical recordings soon, mi instagram Is @nueva.armonia there are a few videos

I just uploaded an improvisation th-cam.com/video/KXLzA1ZoRzA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=kTv92aTQIvDTrnNI

@@noahjordan1066 I am just wondering how singing melodies with this would work because almost every step is a different size having 2 or 3 step sizes can be hard enough to land rightly, I wonder if this is more or less difficult. The chord on the 19 Eb would be the 19, the 3, and the 7. And the relation of these theee notes is only by the 1/1. The 19 and 7 would clash quite especially compared with our notions of a 3/2 fifth. They have no direct relationship to each other that is harmonic, other than indirectly through the 1/1. I would think this would render the sound as just iterations of the timbre of the 1/1, and the music would essentially sound static until one modulated the entire scale to a different fundamental. Perhaps one would have to throw most notions on tertian harmony and conventional music theory out to order these notes in a way that was both satisfying and versatile. I know there is one name Bo Constantinsen that wrote extensively of this scale and advocated it should be THE scale to be used. But with all he wrote he never made any music in the tuning that is public, and soon dissappeared from the internet entirely. All of which I find quite odd. I am curious your thoughts on any of this. And am interested to see what music you can make with this.

@@bigbang259 thank you

@@gustavoalfonso7999 está en entonación justa, 4 círculos de 5os desde el fundamento, el armónico 7 y el armónico 11

@@zAvAvAz how so? Only shares the diminished 7

@@noahjordan1066 it is a different fractional set with different set of frequencies. However have yet to place frets. Therefore the existing 12 frets are still there also. Because the fractional set i used is twenty equal spaced fractions that have 12 fractions equating the frequencies i tuned to on the fretboard of a standard 8 string. 27" scale. Tuned B as 240 HZ. Some frequencies swap back and forth just as the standard guitar fret spacing does not hold chords to G and A at the same time without compensation. This uses no compensation and a few notes on each string in different places swap out with a similar different version on the next string. This making it a few more notes per octave every two strings, (14 notes) however in the place it is not the same the other is the same an exact octave up. This leads me to think to move those frets to exact frequency, Then add the additional required frets for 20 notes. Also have a 21 note version i am working on. i am shall give you the fractions just need to find it in my box of works of notebooks.

@@zAvAvAz in this guitar the existing 12 frets aren't there, you can do a 20 note tuning including the original 12 but that is different. You can still use the same note names if you want but it doesn't work super well in 20 equal

@@noahjordan1066 Yeah, exactly. Thanks. It is strange that some of 18 edo frets match, ithink it is every other one, and then that doesn't do well for my ears anyway.

@@zAvAvAz any tunings that share factors will have some notes the same. 12 has factors of 2 3 4 6, 18 has 2 3 6 9, 20 has 2 4 5 10 so each shared factor is a tempered note exactly the same. If you tune from a meantone standpoint then 12 19 and 31 tones can have the same notes from a generation standpoint

@@elasticmusic2084 nice! I was in redbrick Sultan. After the group ended I retuned the Rhodes a few times and recorded the album Formality vs Reality with Dominic Conway on sax. This was one of the tracks that got made in between

@@CraveDiamonds thank you so much for listening and the lovely words :)

@@CraveDiamonds thank you very much:)

@@CraveDiamonds thank you!

I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.

@@BlakleyBassoon The 17 18 and 19th (and 3rd / 24) harmonics and maybe the 5th or 27th are pretty close. But do get a full diatonic scale from the overtone series, you need the 16 notes from 16-32. If you take the harmonics 8-16 and their inversions you can get something like that too Or you can stack the 3rd harmonic We can really always find a way to make something approximate something if we want to make it work. The diversity in the different approaches and their sounds is really beautiful though

My own term, but it has 2 sequential 5/4 intervals, then the 25/16 is used to start another Pythagorean sequence. I've seen it all called diptolemaic

Thank you

Thank you for your beautiful comment

Gracias ❤️

🤣

@@DJSidhu24 thank you

Beautiful tuning !

Thank you! Truck passing by hah

A truck I believe

Thank you very much, yes it is very odd

The full album is called the moon

Thank you very much, yes it is a very interesting tuning

​@noahjordan1066 I downloaded it its very interesting its like 16 edos weird sister like 16 edo it is divisible by a number that 12 is for 18 its 6 and for 16 its 4 but both scales also have mavila antidiatonic scales 18 is interesting because it's mavila scale is 9 edo crazy stuff

@@ossifrage6828 I never thought too much about 9edo as Mavila but you're right, 16 and 18 have a connection through that,

thank you for listening! check out the whole album if you like, more videos from this album will be made soon I hope :)

I believe this was with piano teq, but could be a retuned rhodes, most.of the other Rhodes pieces (formality vs reality) are with a Rhodes retuned to 17edo

Is it the same as the other, with the frets at the 23 limit utonality, 23/22, 23/21, 23/20 etc

The 23 limit utonality, atleast, fretted to that. 23/22 23/22 23/29 etc

Thank you! I have a new video finally with a just intonation instrument ready to be edited !

Thanks for listening! What was the issue you had with 23?

@@noahjordan1066 No issue whatsoever! I just have a mild obsession with number synchronicity. 23 limit guitar and 23 likes. 😄

@@zpc9225 ahh haha I didn't notice that synchronicity

Thank you! Id love to talk to you about it on your podcast and share my experiences and maybe you can teach me some more ways to consider it's possibilities!

gracias

yes that is true, the 1/5 of the octave would be 240cents, between 8/7 and 7/6

sorry, the description is a bit confusing. it is two cycles of 3/2s separated by 7/4. So you get a chain of six 3/2 each with a 7/4. so it is a form of 7-limit just intonation (no 5s)

Thank you so much! :)

Gracias!

Tank yu

yes! it is wonderful! thank you

<3