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I kayaked the area yesterday (10/5/24), as I have a handful of times over the past 5-6 years. With the smell of doughnuts in the air ('tis the season), I knew I was getting near. However, I did not see the portage sign and I suddenlly found myself in unfamiliar territory. What was this dry riverbed intersecting that I had never seen before? What was this massive pile of natural debris right in front of me? I beached the kayak on the newly-found dry riverbed to try to make sense of things. As it turns out, the northern portion of the dam either broke, or was torn down for some reason. The massive pile of natural debris was so big I could not see still-intact man-made portion of the dam behind it until I finally made the decision to navigate around (the river was suprisingly treacherous yesterday despite the water level being noticably low). And it also turns out that the strange dry riverbed is in fact the sluiceway you mention. With your knowledge of the area I wonder if you can answer: --Was the portion of the dam removed intentionally, or did it just break? And when? --With the sluiceway completely dry, how the heck is Yates operating their equipment? It's prime cider mill season! Bad time for dry sluiceway! Thanks for the video, it was very informative as to what I got myself into yesterday. I also now know what a sluiceway is.

Class V? Doesn't appear to be by today's standards. I have never paddled this section, but even American Whitewater lists it as class IV.

I started rafting in the late 60's well before self-bailing rafts and we always concentrated on staying in the raft, holding onto the raft if you fall out and most importantly active aggressive self rescue techniques. Each boater needs to understand the rapids ahead and the obstacles they MUST avoid. I stopped guiding when I felt the clients did not have the proper training for class IV and V rapids and I noticed clients would not listen to paddling commands, refusing to do anything and some seemed to fall out at each rapid. A lot of folks are also poor swimmers and that is a major problem IMO. I don't believe inexperienced rafters should be taken on class IV and V rapids. Especially during flood stages.

That day, 2 people actually died holding on to that capsized raft as it floated for miles. "Charlie" was part of the commercial group but the other victim 27yrs old was on a private raft who was traveling closely behind the commercial group for safety. A day I will never forget. I have the GoPro footage from our boat, but I appreciate being able to see from other angles. Thank you for your breakdown

I dont know if I am satisfied with this kind of clip. It raises more questions than giving answers. If everybody else understood what exactly was done wrong and how could it be done better please sum it up for me. So far I got: missing stirrup on the boat. Boats too far away from each other on the river. Another guide wasted two minutes.

in my world, "Behind the dam" is the water withheld by the dam, and the hydraulics are Bellow the dam, DOWNSTREAM.

😁😁😁 Thank you very much.

What level rapids was this?

does this narrator dude even boat or does he just do overly critical garbage tier analysis on freak accidents happening on class 3 rivers?

Tragic.

Few things here: firstly it was not mentioned how the guy drowned. It appears that he was past the major hydraulics and, as this was a commercial trip, I’m sure he had a certified pfd. Did he get hyperthermic? Heart attack? Was he injured during the flip? Did he strike a rock? Hit a strainer? Another hole? Water/air temp was not mentioned and is crucial to understanding what happened. Culpability is always a factor on a commercial trip of course, given that there are certain legal and professional standards that have to be adhered to. But anybody in this game knows the massive complexity and variables that are involved in coordinating responses in fast moving white water. Leadership and training are everything. Climbing back on to the raft is handy sometimes but not crucial ( an upturned boat is, literally, a slip ‘n slide and can l launch the unsuspecting into a hard object) and it looks like she’d have had very little ability to navigate towards a swimmer were she have been able to do so. It would be pure luck that he drifted up to the upturned boat. Most important is teaching paid passengers (as they’re mostly unable to scramble up onto an upturned boat in any event) to hang on to the upstream side of the boat whenever possible until drifting into an eddy or slack water and how to “swim” correctly in whitewater and how to understand how an eddy can be a safe haven while awaiting rescue by other boats. I’m sure that the basics of simple self rescue were covered in the morning’s safety talk. I like to go over this stuff between rapids repeatedly as, for most, the alien environment generally puts folks into a sort of mental overload which can lead to vapor lock. But, of course, the odd thing about the guide impressing his passengers with his geological prowess for two minutes while swimmers and flipped boats drift by is of course unfathomable. I’ve never, in 30 years of boating, not seen action stations and whistles blowing etc the moment there’s a “swimmer” in the water. It seems like there’s something fundamentally amiss with a guide doing this - regardless of experience and training. Very strange. At high water a boat/swimmer can go a long way indeed in two minutes. Boat spacing. Well we all know that even with the best intentions and training spacing goes to hell at various times in a day of boating - most especially at fast high water where the most immediate factor in a rapid is keeping your own line. Ten seconds in fast high water can put the raft ahead of you almost out of sight. The key point then is automatic re-grouping and rallying at the first available eddy below each rapid, and, of course close attention to the boats in front and behind the moment your boat becomes stable and in control. It’s always so horribly sad to hear of someone going out for a fantastic day of boating, but sadly drowning instead. In all my years of very gnarly boating I’ve never been on a trip with a fatality but have, like all soul boaters, many many times contemplated the misery of dealing with a fatality. My heart goes out to all involved. I’ve always said, however, that there’s no true adventure without risk - the greater the risk, the greater the adventure. Hopefully all these young guides in this incident understand this, stayed with the sport, and have become even better boaters post accident.

Thankyou for such a wonderful Video.

This video is way too short, and way too quick to place blame. As are most of the commenters. Every boat in a string may flip. It’s the responsibility of each preceding boat to find a safe, secure place to assist in a potential rescue. The last boat in the string, the sweep, is designated to rescue swimmers from preceding boats. If it goes over, they are reliant upon the other boats. This is extremely important on big, difficult water. The downstream boats, which should be safely eddied, are designated to “catch” or “chase.” Catch means picking up swimmers. You’re in catch mode until everyone is accounted for. Only then do you chase downstream to get the raft, gear, etc., but only if the incident is secured, i.e., you can rally everyone above the next rapid. The guide who flipped the boat can be blamed for taking the wrong line, or for not running it properly. It happens. Male or female, weak or strong, experienced or not, it happens. The old saying says: “There are two kinds of boaters. Those who have flipped, and those who will.” Go, and learn, and try, and fail, and cry before you blame.

I actually want to stay there hoping to stay there in 2025 for our 15th anniversary

well, I am taking a safety course on accident models and your summary is the best I have seen. I like how you reference other models.

Thank you.

Great ❤

The mandatory portage should be eliminated. It's stupid that a cider mill was allowed to create a dam that prevents navigation without providing mitigation. Instead, there should be a safe canoe shoot around the dam, so that when water levels are high, water flows through the shoot, at a small enough angle that it doesn't have a hydraulic jump. Given that the regulatory body that allowed the dam to be built and to continue to exist failed to prevent this disruption, it should build the shoot.

Skull & Crossed Bones + Do NOT Proceed ?

got too watch what you say as a video kayaker even more now that rock is the lame jump rock I dont even video that often I slide my yak off that rock

interesting video my observation accident was avoidable if they swam away from meat grinder, was not much swimming going on, As a video kayaker I have seen this many times been lucky too not have a death that rapid always sucks this and all rivers have the willingness and the ability to take peeps lives

I’ve been on these rapids at higher levels. I have swam this rapid you have to swim hard for your life to river left. I did not see any effort of self rescue in this video. This is an unfortunate tragedy , but I feel too many people think that just because they have a well experienced guide in their raft that everything is going to be fine, that is not always the case. Especially if you have a boat full of inexperienced rafters things can go sideways in a hurry.

Just in case an aspiring paddler sees this, rescue techniques have changed significantly since this was filmed. Go take an ACA course

Wait… someone actually died here??

Ah the memories from years of hitting those damned rocks

Thank you very much

Love your channel! ❤

The only thing that would have changed the fatal outcome was to NOT GO on a river in flood! Everything else in this video is babble.

Thank you so much. This is excellent information.

A blunt nose knife is something i have any time I'm around water and lines. Be it on the boat offshore when leadering large tuna or when Im doing swiftwater rescue. Its absolutely part of the standard equipment in any water rescue training Ive done. I use a Gerber thats got a trigger release sheath that locks into the MOLLE tab on my PFD and is accessible with either hand and is sedured by a retracting coated cable landyard thats made to be the weakest link which can break easily if it becomes tangled.

Promo_SM 😀

I was trained in whitewater kayaking and some river rescue back in the 1980s. With the explosion of kayaking fishing on rivers I'm concerned about the lack of training in boating skills, self rescue and the minimal knowledge of the power of running water and hazards in many modern kayak fishermen.

Water is a very powerful force of nature and should be respected at all times . As an adventurer you are made aware of these risks and should take them seriously. Generally speaking there are very few incidents like this that happen when you look at the number of people who participate. As a boatman myself i see rivers change daily and have to adjust to changing conditions and understand that the line you took two days ago May no longer be the preferred one today . In most cases a guide has to run a river a certain amount of time to even be able to take customers on that river but that still does not assure its safe . Thanks for sharing

If there is a flip - always, ALWAYS go to help! It’s important to have each other’s backs under any circumstances.

If you've rafted this section, the roar of Skull Rapid as your approaching during high water is deafening.

It’s easier to get on the raft from either end instead of the sides.

Why would you want to make a rescue an "exciting" activity with your crew? Maybe I am misinterpreting the comment.

Fun will never be perfect. Reality

Simple. If there is a God he loves death. If he wants you dead then you will die from whatever. Have done this multiple times and no issues not my time to die obviously. Very fun with the right company

SOP VS SOG OVER AND OVER AGAIN. NEVER WORK FOR PEOPLE WHO GIVE YOU SOPs IN SCENARIOS WHERE THERE MAY BE FATALITIES, literally all scenarios. SOPs PROTECT THE BUSINESS AND OVERSEEING BEAUROCRACY AND DO NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT CHANGING CONDITIONS SUCH AS STRAINERS PROMOTING A MENTALITY THAT IT IS BETTER TO DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD INSTEAD OF KNOWING WHAT YOU ARE DOING. IF YOU HAVE AN SOP IN PLACE AND YOU MAKE AN EDUCATED DECISION DUE TO CHANGING CONDITIONS AND THERE IS AN INJURY, IF YOU WENT OUTSIDE THE DIRECTION OF THE SOP, YOU ARE AT FAULT, EVEN IF THAT SOP HAD A HIGHER RISK OF INJURY DUE TO ALTERED CONDITIONS FROM WHEN THE SOP WAS WRITTEN. RIVERS CHANGE, IT CAN MERELY BE WATER LEVEL CHANGE OR A FLASHFLOOD CREATING AN ENTIRELY NEW RIVER FEATURE, BY LITERALLY DAMMING THE RIVER WITH DEBRIS FROM A SIDE STREAM'S FLOOD. IF YOU HAVE A GUIDE WHO FOLLOWS LINES THEY ARE TOLD INSTEAD OF BEING CAPABLE OF READING WATER, YOU DO NOT HAVE A GUIDE! A GUIDE IS CAPABLE OF ADAPTING TO CHANGING CONDITIONS, PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW SOPs ARE AUTOMATONS UNAWARE OF THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS THAT CREATED THE SOP AND WHICH OF THOSE ASSUMPTIONS MAY BE WRONG WITH CHANGING CONDITIONS. YOU CAN DROWN IN A BUCKET, THAT'S WHY THERE IS A WARNING ON EVERY 5 GALLON BUCKET SOLD IN AMERICA. THE DRIVE TO THE PUT-IN IS STATISTICALLY MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE RIVER. YOU MUST BE AWARE OF RISKS, THEY CANNOT BE ELIMINATED. I have kayaked since I was four years old. I am proficient in rafts, kayaks, SUPs, sweep boats, drift boats, dories, sledges, and swimming, if you have the hubris to tell me where I should take my craft, get out of my craft.

The "ROOM OF DOOM" is no joke.

The plaintiff was pleased with the settlement? Wouldn’t he be dead?

The safest experience Is to watch a video on TH-cam and not go rafting but what kinda of experience is that?

Why. Do. You. Feel. The need. To. Pause. Between. The. Words...

You raise an interesting question regarding what is the standard of care and the liability of the canoe livery. Consider a car rental business. You rent a car from them. What is their duty to you? They are responsible to provide you a car that works and that is road worthy. If there is heavy rain or there is a snow storm and you have an accident, are they liable? Probably not. There are some important differences. First, you have a drivers licence which indicates that you have at least minimal driving knowledge and skills. Normally, most renters from a canoe livery have minimal skills and experience at best. The owner and her daughter were providing those who were renting the canoes with a pre-trip talk. We would expect the talk-up to be accurate and inclusive (i.e. explain what you need to know including hazards). For example, there is a dam which needs to be portaged. This needs to be covered and users need to be warned of the hazard. Second, under what conditions is it unsafe to rent a canoe on this stretch of river. Normally, there is a high water cut-off. This is a common practice. The gauge was missing. It was not replaced within a reasonable period. The owners had no real mechanism to determine when to cease operations, nor did they have a policy to indicate when to cease operations. Third, there is the issue regarding how much knowledge and experience the owner of the livery should have. I could argue both sides of this one. Someone should have some knowledge and experience regarding the activity being conducted. If the owner is removed from the business or has delegated this responsibility to someone else, they could have minimal knowledge and experience. Or they could rely on a consultant or outside group to provide them with the appropriate knowledge and experience. In this case, the owner and her daughter didn’t have the knowledge and experience nor did they seek it from anyone else. They portrayed themselves as competent when they weren’t. And then, they advise those renting their canoes what to experience on the river. In a sense, it was the blind (i.e. owners) leading the blind (i.e. customers). Fourth, who is responsible for maintaining the resource. If I own an amusement park with a roller coaster, I am responsible for maintaining coaster. The canoe rental does not own the river so their responsibility here is murky (pun intended). Actually, they were subcontracted by the township which owned the resource. My understanding is that the township has sovereign immunity so they can not be held responsible. Also, the livery’s responsibility would be governed by the lease agreement. Regardless, it may not be their responsibility to remove the strainers since they are not the landowners. However, had they known about their strainers and their dangers, they could have taken preventive measures. At minimal it might be warning users or ceasing operation at higher water. Last, you want your customers to have a good experience and you don’t want to go out of business. You want to match your standard of care to the experience level of the customers. These customers had minimal experience. Drowning is not a good experience and going out of business is not fun. From a legal perspective, you may not have a duty to manage the resource or the duty may be murky. There were things they could of and should have done. Regardless, you may want to take these steps which provide your customers with a good experience. It will help you stay in business.

Are retailers that sell kayaks and canoes subject to the same liability? No. It's sad that someone died but I fail to understand how the rental company is responsible. I have been kayaking for about 20 years now. Previous to my first kayak experience, I had paddled a few canoes on benign lakes and rivers and had owned power boats. I knew nothing about river dynamics and potential dangers. The first kayak I paddled was a rental and I narrowly escaped a strainer. I didn't know what a "strainer" was at the time but I learned. I never once considered the rental company responsible for my lack of knowledge or my actions on the river and I believe it is incumbent on the person that is renting a canoe/kayak to take full responsibility.

This is a very sad incident in a very safe sport. I am a conservative guide (40 years) I believe kids should be at least 15 yo and strong swimmers, in the back of the boat near the guides reach and eyes.

any river on our planet is only as dangerous as people make it themselves . riding it on your own is no guaranty not to drown , putting your risk to someone is also no guaranty to stay safe ..... if you do not take a wonderfull experience like rafting a good river you can perhaps choke in a bite of burger , but that doesnt count as a river fatalaty even when the restaurant was at the riverbank

I consider myself pretty lucky to have great experiences whitewater rafting as a customer. From my 20s to 50s, I rafted at least twice per summer. Have been on the New in W VA, the Ottawa in Canada, the "Yough" on PA, and the Chilliwack in Canada. The Outfitters I've gone with all have a minimum age of 14 for class lol and above. With one exception, every single guide on my trips was level-headed, skilled, and took the customers' desires and hesitance into consideration. On one trip, the guide transferred me temporarily to another raft knowing I wanted & could handle surfing & that my raftmates (a group I organized) did not and likely could not handle it. In every case, the guides ensured our PFDs fit properly - something I've carried into my sea kayaking. Not all customers are fit, are sensible, or follow direction. Makes it amazing that there aren't more serious accidents. Whitewater rafting is risky, period. Freak accidents do occur, and I'm leaning on that as the main reason for this fatality. Someone commented the boy's PFD came off - so I wonder if he was given the right size and had it cinched properly. I'm so sorry for his family's loss.

As a quite experienced kayaker (solid 4+, occasionl class 5), who occasionally rode in rafts, I honestly would run any of those lines - none of it looks challenging or particularly retentive. Possibly an unpopular opinion; dangerous sports ARE dangerous. I climbed mtns, surfed waves (badly) and paddled rivers all over the world - and you can be killed very easily, even on relatively 'easy" routes - every loss, especially a child, is a tragedy - but accidents happen in swimming pools, bathtubs & automobiles - if you'd asked me before watching your video if I thought someone could be killed in that rapid, I'd of said "doubtful".