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My goal is to become as confident as you are leading a group, well played my dude 😎👍🏼

nice one congrats! :)

FF14 Tank Main. He gets some stuff about Dark Knight wrong. The Blackest Night was not the best damage mit in the game when the video he was watching released, and it still isn't. It can be very fun... but even when it works right the other 3 tanks have better shields that just work. Some minor stuff has changed, plunge is gone (no more damage gap closer on GBR either.) Living Shadow is now free to cast. BTW Dark Missionary and Mind are trash as well. MOST of the time they are fine, but some things are physical and so they dont f*cking work. Walking dead is also the hardest invuln to use in the game. DRK is just not a good tank. If you want a hard to play tank its great, and it is due for a rebuild but outside of normal content its trash. Cool trash but trash. I LOVE Dark Knight, I really do... but its a LOT more work to get the same results as any other tank in the game. And also has the derpiest stance (1. No that's not Ox, that's failing at Ox. 2. Ox is a passing stance not a passive one, you wouldn't just hold your sword there. and 3. You wouldn't run with it either.)

Hope ur good man

Doesn't seem that bad in practice

Anyone who says that hallowed is the best invuln in the game is beyond delusional

this changes are like: we cant fix defensives from dps and healers so we just fuck tanks to make the healing role better

I think tank dependence on healers can be fixed by having a stacking rot/bleed similar to necrotic (without the healing reduction). It stacks up on pulls or boss fights or raid encounters based on white hits and can only be removed by healer direct heals (not just maintenance hots. They could slow the stacking perhaps). Otherwise, if these stacks are gone or low, tanks remain mostly self-sufficent and most of the healer's job is topping smooth rot-type damage on the party. High stacks starts to be unsustainable damage, very high is +damage intake. To avoid kite meta, have trash mob aggro decay after 3 sec outside of melee (slow-med drain, not instant snap off). Bigger heal = more stacks removed. Exiting combat drops stacks.

u all are really panicking too hard

Final take is based: welcome the new ideas but not able to test because they came too late in the beta. Why not in S4 dragonflight?

I'ma blame VDH for raising the bar too much in M+

2h video 😂😂 I respect anyone who actually tried to watch this tho.

100% agree with you as a long time bdk tank getting up to 3k rating. Tanking is fun when you are self-sufficient. It isn't like you are invinsible, you still need to play well to survive. As a tank, I don't want to be a healers healing dummy, just their to increase their healing. Dps has their damage numbers, healers have their healing numbers, and tanks should have their mitigation numbers (healing as a bdk).

I played healer, and blizzard made me stop doing that with DF s2. I then played tank instead. Blizzard now wants me to stop by making these changes, but to also not go back to healer by reintroducing tank healing. My TWW hype is basically in the toilet now. As a tank, I am such a main character that I honestly believe that this entire nerf is my fault. Sorry, guys.

Many tanks can substain themself, this is kinda true. If you read it as many ppl who play tank, play a tank that can substain themself. Aka they play dh

Been tanking since Nighthold as a sub for absences/3 tank fights, and tank main since Shadowlands season 1. Just a CE raider and 3k gamer so think just slightly above middle of the pack so take my opinion with that in mind. I forget who said it first but it was something along the lines of nothing feels worse for tank gameplay than playing perfectly with cooldowns and rotations and still dying from not getting spot healing and it sounds like this is what Blizz wants it to be. There seems to be a major disconnect between Blizz's goals and what the tanking community wants and an already less played role will only see more people not want to try it.

The biggest barrier to entry for tanking is just routing and the burden of leading the group Make dungeons more linear with less routing choices and the game gets better for the bottom 99% of players

Prot pally discussion section in video? Nah no need, just o7

If dps already give 💩 to heals now the left over tanks will definitely rage quit over healers. Now we need augmentation for sure , kiting is back , great job heals and blizz

Hilarious overreaction. You exaggerate and misinterpret a lot of what the post says. Blizz: "Healers shouldn't need to focus on tanks much." Andy: "Bro are they trying to make it like Classic?!" You've clearly never played Classic, lol. Or more likely- you just don't believe what they're saying. It's totally understandable not to trust Blizz, but you seem panicked rather than skeptical. Hoping that you reacted better to the specific patch notes.

If dps already give 💩 to heals now the left over tanks will definitely rage quit over healers. Now we need augmentation for sure , kiting is back , great job heals and blizz

thank you, baby sitting a tank as a healer is just boring. being squishy as a tank sucks. there arent that many healer and tank currently, and this changes is going the opposite direction we need imo.

When andy said, are they going to homogenize every tank? it just reminds me of tanking in FFXIV. that's how tanking feels there, doesn't matter which tank class you choose, they all feel the same. maybe 1 or 2 class might feel a little different, but otherwise, they all feel the same.

Personally feel like I don't have the ability to express any skill as a tank when I have to rely on a healer to keep me a live generally speaking. If I do my rotation correct and don't over pull way to much but I still die because the healer couldn't keep up on me and everyone else doesn't make me feel good. My job is to live and keep the other stuff off my party and removing my ability to keep myself a live what is the point of being the tank.

every tank is self sufficient right now, brew can heal almost as well as DK with gift of ox orbs. Guardian druid and prot warrior have the least self sustain and need some help from healers, and prot pally doesn't always have a wog in time. but all the tanks can pretty much take care of themselves and it's their own fault when they die.

Tanks when played right are straight up immortal. This isn’t how the game should be. All of the tanks(I main tank) are just scared at the thought of relying on someone other than themselves. Though, at the moment, healers have very little influence on tank survival. If healers had more agency, I think it would have the opposite effect and MORE people would play tank. If you play right now, it’s all up to you. That’s intimidating for players. In the key range of 10 and below, having tank survivability be split between mitigation and incoming healing from a healer is a fine solution to spread responsibility. It is also a group game. After maining tank for a couple expansions, once a week I’m left solo tanking the boss from 10% to 0. Regardless of the tank I’m on. This also used to be BDK’s niche. Now just about every tank can survive on their own

Such a soft-spoken intro lol, unironically kinda cute (Platonically) [ed] Sorry, I should've said "Kawaii" instead, I didn't realize Andy is such a weeb. Andy must be a "Romantic". Funny that the Tank is gentle.

Bro the guy who wrote that blue post at the start has some serious brain fog. Literally just corporate speak where they try to tell you that tank's are getting weaker and then justify it by saying but no youre not really getting weaker. We want tanks to rely on healer but we don't want healer to just heal tanks. Just full on brain fart, both cant be true at the same time. Bro I sometimes wonder whether these people that they employ have finished high school man. Why can't you just say we are making tanks weaker and have to rely on healer more and youre gonna die more and be stressed more on top of fighting to hold aggro and figuring out the whole pathing in the key. If they fuck this up im literally just raid tanking. You already wait ages to get a pug tank for keys now... how do they think this is gonna make the game better for healers? Now everyone's healthbar is gonna be yoyoing.

Completely thought the same Andy. They never played tank role ever

1:28 When one of the worlds best tanks laughs at this statement you know we are in for a failure of an expansion for tanking.

I don't want to be negative about this either, but I'm gonna be.

Nobody wants to play tanks as is and this is just the final nail in the coffin. Blizzard will hear everyone complaining/quitting M+ because it takes forever to find a tank in s1-s2 and then by s3 or s4 they will buff tanks in some stupid way again

All this is gonna do is make tanks kite if they're not durable enough to survive the pulls they want to make. Also, just imagine for a moment -- getting months of feedback, and then right before a major release making a ton of completely neurotic changes that invalidates nearly all of the feedback you've been given. I'm convinced that Blizzard's employees do not play or even test anything.

lol why they nerfing tanks? I mean its a struggle anyways to find tanks ind queue

Thanks for including class specific experts in this. Incredibly valuable.

Haven't tanks needed healing for every single expansion except DF?

As a healer in an M+ key, here are my irritation points with tanks being "self-sufficient" aka not needing a healer (or anyone else for that matter). Trust me, I have played with SEVERAL of these tanks. #1 - a tank running off to pull a new set of mobs while I am still rezzing a dead DPS #2 - not giving a shit that my mana bar is at 25% before pulling the boss #3 - a tank trying to solo the boss, wasting time instead of calling a reset so that the group can revive. If the changes that the dev team is implementing actually make a difference to these behaviors, then MAYBE, just MAYBE a tank will learn to work with the group. And if these cowboy tanks decide to never tank again because of these changes, then that sounds good to me!

Hey you. Yeah, you planning on pug The War Within... i hope you have 1 hour to sit on the queue waiting for a tanker 1 week after the start. (if they don't revert some of these changes)

love the content Andy.

They should just remove tanks health bars and make them one shot everything. That's what this echo chamber would love blizz to implement. Durr theyre gutting tanks durr they never tanked before. If you were a real tank player you'd understand the direction they're going for. Real tanks can take the hit.

I mean, the thing about tanking is: It's pretty boring in Raid (barely do any mechanics other than some iteration of a tank swap), so the only content it was fun to do was M+. And even then you have to have a pretty thick hide to get into it because a lot of DPS players know fuck all about routes, if you're lucky they barely know what kickable abilities do and do their kicks and dodge swirlies, it doesn't really matter if they drop to not dodging a mechanic since they can just walk back and the pull isn't just dead. Yet if you fuck up (mismanaging defensives during a pull, missing a mandatory kick that the melee was supposed to get but just chose to ignore, bad overlaps), you immediately get flamed. But when it works and you do things correctly and happen upon a group that knows what they are doing it feels gratifying. This will likely NOT change, it will just become less likely for everything to come together like this, and the negative aspects of dumbass DPS players blaming you for a failing key will just make it not worth it anymore. At the end we play this game voluntarily and for fun, and if the incentive structure isn't there, why bother.

Excellent conversation. Incredible to see each professional talking about their tank. Unfortunately blizzard's work does not incentivize the participation of new players migrating to tank life.

tldr bdk and protpala were butchered vdh, bear, protwarrior - no significant changes brew got buffs as a bdk/protpala main I quit tanking, will probably play some dps now

Thanks for doing this and big appreciate on getting Meyra's opinion for DH. So many streamers just grab the most popular streamer playing the class cause it's meta right now to pull something out of their ass. But Meyra can tell you what nerfing a talent by x% will do and wont do, I wish more people would talk to people who really know the class like you do here.

I think healing tanks can be fun, but not with the current overall design. Healing tanks was fun pre-triage, when AoE crits were enough to top people off, healing tanks is awful when you're filling buckets with a spoon. I can also predict healing BDKs will be HELL, because they're not getting any less spiky, they just won't be able to really take care of themselves alone. That said, I'm so disgusted with it all that I couldn't even stomach logging in since it has been announced. I'm glad I haven't preordered. I'm sure the numbers will work out, if only because the players will make them work out, but I honestly can't see it being any fun.

this guy is a highly regarded tank

You can already see the negative effect of this change by how many groups are looking for tanks in beta.

TLDR?

The changes legit arent that bad man.

What they did to paladin is illegal. You can't selfheal, damage isn't great and you can't mitigate.