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I only ever see 1 and 3 out in the wild. Never 2 which sucks cuz 2 has most of the one-shots :(

It's not that it doesn't make sense, it’s that it's contrived. Lelouch at this point knew his eyes and the Geass were on the fritz, only to take no caution whatsoever, allowing this to happen when the set of factors for Geassing someone aligned perfectly with Lelouch's carelessness at the time of being all like "I could even make you kill the Japanese with this thing lmao, crazy eh?" What it leads to is great but the moment itself is a frustrating and glaring contrivance.

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF It's def not contrived & was very clearly built up to wit Lelouch's character among other elements

I mean, even still, point is, dude was still pissed enough to let the grudge drive him to do that when in that moment, Lelouch was basically blaming himself, which tbf, at this stage ofc he would even though he still knows Rolo was the one who did the deed and it's not like Suzaku would know that. Dude was ready to stomp him out regardless regardless of what answer Lelouch gave, I feel, since there's no way he'd buy or accept that Rolo of all people killed Shirley and instead he'd most likely think Lelouch was just dodging accountability.

Yeah, there was something here but even towards the middle, it wasn't at all calitalized on until late into the exam stuff where they found a different good thing, but by then it was too late. It's hard to come back from 5 mediocre chapters and 2 shockingly disastrous ones that speedran what could have been several chapters of more promising material. It’s not surprising that this manga got the axe, even if it also wouldn't surprise me if we actually did rush to get to the exam stuff, proper.

It's certainly idealistic but the clout she had and the fact that the zone was allowed to happen was at least proof that what Suzaku strove for could at least result in something more than he was capable of on his own. It was a fiest step, even if realistically, even before she abdicated her potential claim to the throne, this was probably the most Euphemia could do within said system. It was a temporary solution at best, I agree, but it does show the difference of what Suzaku could do and what the ideas he believed in could do. I won't disagree and ofc, neither does the show. Hell, neither does Rozé, the new Geass show that sucks. Usually, systems of government don't change from internal policy, it's from being confronted and coerced by the people, or violently dismantled outright.

That's definitely another factor. He's a hasty and arrogant guy, and that already led to some bad consequences and failures in the first quarter of the show/first half of S1, but once Shirley got involved after being affected, some of his decisions brcame more rash and we saw more awkward or terrible decisions being made on account of other people in his life.

Honestly, I don't agree. He could have legit just fired another non-FLEIJA shot and just as Kallen dodged the FLEIJA, she coulda dodged this, too. Afterwards, he could have taken more evasive maneuvers, especially since later on, he uses the command to enhance his performance anyway. The FJEIJA takes a long time to activate after being fired anyway. You could argue it's the simplest choice, but there were other possible options and the narrative taked advantage of the decision to have him finally accept the limitstions of his ideology and that in the end, he's still another killer like the rest.

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF yes, the simplest. Suzaku is the opposite ifmlelouch in many respects. He is not as smart frankly. So what is simple logic that Suzaku would understand? Shortest route between any 2 points is a straight line. The simplest aka shortest and straightforward plan is a plan that involves the minimum amount of steps….thus less things going wrong. Hence fire a nuke and let everyone scatter because they stop attacking him to flee. Also the grass is overriding. In that moment the only thing that mattered was for Suzaku to live. THATS IT, nothing else mattered. Because Suzaku while has no trouble killing enemies, he does show great care about not harming innocent people, It causes him great pain and grief when innocent people do get killed. It doesn’t stop him, but that’s most likely failure to accomplish his mission, he sees it as getting more people killed. Yiu can argue his methods are idiotic…..I’d point out that compared to lelouch….intellectually he is an idiot. Most are if compared to lelouch.

To elaborate. Suzaku is the kind of person that would die first if it meant sparing innocent lives…..presuming Tokyo was full of them….or whichever city got nuked. So why did he do it. The only explanation is the geass itself. Same with euphy even though she would never slaughter anyone, the geass overwrote her and she did it, miraculously with some hesitation. One could argue since there was a war on, war is Hell and people have to kill other people all the time. Why write that, because Suzaku showed no hesitation. It could be argued he desensitized to violence right now, he killed his own father so a bunch of strangers is easier, my preference is it’s just easier to satisfy the geass.

He's intelligent, yes, and I knoe the purpose behind these acts in the story, though the video recording stuff still requires an above average suspension of disbelief, especially since he did this with a person he had a couple encounrers with, and a guy he had like 1 direct encounter with after several years. There were other scenes that di the pride and arrogance thing without feeling especially stupid like this one did, especially since he knew the Geass was on the fritz and giving him eye trouble.

All I can say for this one is that I much prefer the movie version of this sequence especially since they frankly should have little reason to trust Schneizel either and in the movies, Ohgi decks Dietard for escalating the situation and is resentful of how everything played out.

Agreed. There was something cool there, even with the meh first arc, but things just didn't play out in a way that allowed the series to blossom.

It's a damn shame cuz I actually do like the exam stuff (once it gets going) and Debonair is a queen. Plus, there was a cool world the mangaka clearly had laid put between this manga and its included one-shots. Thanks

Thanks. Glad to hear my video reflected your thoughts on this interesting, if unfortunate manga. Also, yeah, if it did end like that, that could easily be read as the ultimate critique of Jump on top of being a moment of sheer revelry in its own destruction, but what we got still got people talking. If nothing else, the ways the manga manages to fail and die with the 2nd arc-onwards are consistently interesting, especially when there are some cool characters and ideas at play which never get to truly shine.

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF Yeah, I definitely feel you on that. There's something fun about looking into series that, even when failing, do so in interesting ways that encourage analysis. Red Hood definitely falls into that camp.

You kinda really let everything I said fly over your head, didn't you? I even criticized the BokuYaba moment as "a probable misread of the character that put forth the localizer's political understanding over the understanding of the character, that's bad". Even then, I stress that I don't agree with the other one, either, just that it's not that deep. Additionally, these seemed to be isolated incidents being covered, unlike what happened with Lovely Complex where the entire dub was overwrought with issues as a result of a rotten ethos. Those "3 random dudes" don't exactly have miniscule followings, you know. Hundreds up to tens of thousands agree with them and either support or turn a blind eye to blatant bigotry, which means these guys are the loudest voices speaking for them and are at least somewhat representative of that side of the aisle. Obviously not every anti-localizer is a racist or whatever, you're putting words into my mouth after making that your takeaway since I'm not ridiculous enough to beliece such a myopic sentiment. It's just that guys like Dimitri Monroe and Scratch Point are some of the bigger voices beating the "localizers bad" drum, and I'm the one willing to ask "do you really want people with clear transphobia and racism to be the big voices of localization criticism?" The whole "are woke localizations ruining anime" video and thumbnail were obvious clickbait and slanderbait, meant to get anti-localizers to listen to a measured defense & critique of some locs while I go "are these the guys you want speaking on your behalf", and piss off pro-localizers who would turn their nose rather than actually hear the video out. Feel free to call that a dick move, I won't argue otherwise. The more analytical video on localizations and the discourse is the one right behind this one, where this one is meant to go "is this your king?" If you don't wanna hear any of that, then that's your decision, but let's not pretend I'm trying to say "every anti-localizer is an istophobe".

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF 1) " it's not that deep!! " It is actually 2) did you unironically implied that Dimitri is a bigot lol, also plenty of clowns bigots on Twitter has a lot of following, that doesn't mean anything since they get clowned on all the time especially since they criticize bad localizations, heck iuntie got called out a lot for his racist tweet about eiyuden Chronicles 3) " feel free to call that a dick move " well at least you're admitting it

1. LMAO that's really all, huh? So an isolated incident requires all the ferver and vitriol of the LoveCom moment and not just a decent bit of criticism for a few days and some side-eyes while adding to a pile that says "bad politically-driven loc moments" 2. Did you...not watch the last 1/3 of the video?. Bare minimum, the dude has made some pretty iffy comments regarding trans people. He's no blatant racist like Scratch Point as far as I'm aware, and I wouldn't think of escalating to the point of throwing "nazi" around but he does seem to hold some contempt for trans people in particular, even if he isn't gonna go on tirades on Twitter about it. Also, yeah they get criticized. So what? That doesn't do anything to go against my point. People with large followings, esp ones that do dumb shit or abject bullshit get criticized all the time, but they still retain those large followings. It's not like any of these guys have been cancelled. Dimitri and rev 5-digit sub-counts, no small feat for people who at least occasionally cover anime topics. The others are infamous on twitter but they still have huge followings such as Grummz...except BlackSageD who has to rebuild after his previous account got suspended. None of this means these people aren't suddenly representstive of camps such as anti-localization, anti-censorship (esp regarding Sony), etc. because they still are as the biggest and loudest voices in the room. 3. :)

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF it's like I'm speaking to a wall

I won't say I wholly disagree. I can see where Shaybs was coming from, esp considering his similarly exhausted perspective, but I understand why that dismissive statement would rub you and others the wrong way, as if a niche ecchi show isn't of enough note or worth to merit people understandably complaining about its dubious localization.

It's been a long wait, hasn't it? When S5 came out, I had recently entered online anime discourse on freakin MyAnimeList, and I wouldn't get into Natsume until late 2018/early 2019.

We're never getting Papa Franku back ;~;

All of the lines I dissected are politically charged lines for sure, I just find that some are handled more acceptably than others. It's also true that these terms are mainly for those who are at least a little internet heavy. Oh, yea, don't get me wrong, I don't think he's a grifter per se. I do believe that he believes what he says, and if he was only here to capitalize on shit, I don't think it would take a month or few for him to release videos. He's absolutely a sensationalist fearmongerer though, attributing everything to the most wicked kinds of malice and conspiracy. He hates localizers on the level that a lot of people hate politicians and "big government". I do mention that whether you'd call him and others who fearmonger this shit grifters depends on who you ask and that it will potentially vary depending on if you're asking about Dimitri or Rev and whatnot. In either case, unlike Canipa who tends to have some level of industry insight and more thorough research, Dimitri doesn't approach these things with good faith or for the sake of productive conversation. He does it to fearmonger and smugly gesture about how right he and others like him are about the so-called evils of localization and the people who defend that. Even when I agree with a general idea like "the Lovely Complex dub script was an obvious display of bad ethos that Jello smugly confirmed cuz he's a douchebag who shouldn't be allowed to localize ever again", I am very much opposed to the destructive main ideas and conclusions Dimitri puts forth, and I feel there are others better worth listening to that raise similar kinds of criticisms. I mainly do so to show the kinds of political baggage they bring forth towards their arguments, as what they believe about trans people and whatnot has actively shown to be of at least some influence on their beliefs on localization and anything "corrupted by woke" and how they express that. Scratch Point and some others approach these kinds of controversies the same way because of their beliefs and desire to fearmonger. They have a history of this kind of attitude and behavior, which at least sometimes manifests in other tactics or displays that should damage their credibility. I at least make allowances, acknowledge parts where I agree on some level, and even admit when I fuck up sometimes or risk sounding potentially hypocritical when covering Dimitri and the like. It depends for me, but yea, generally I'd rather internet lingo be kept out unless it's substituting for Japanese slang and internet lingo, and even then, case by case basis on that one. Nah, I getcha, in fact I kind of agree that translator's notes were at least sometimes beneficial in terms of providing cultural context and context behind certain words that don't have clean equivalents in other language. It's somewhat related to why I really wish more English releases would include liner notes going over translations and localizations of specific lines and titles, as well as pointing out some cultural aspects presented in a work that one might not pick up on. Nozomi Entertainment's DVD release of Musekinin Kanchou Tylor does exactly that, but I haven't come across another DVD/BD that does. Maybe other Nozomi Entertainment releases do, but I can't rightly say. I appreciate the good faith disagreements and comments you've provided here. Productive conversation is what I'm here for, both in general and especially when it comes to issues such as this.

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF np, i left a comment because i thought your video had merit my concern is that the people who cry woke and the people who cry about people who cry woke are effectively kinda the same (kinda like horseshoe theory) where it becomes a game of who can grandstand who. I think your above that and have the ability to preform proper critique without insulting the opposing side (which the opening to your video did) i think antagonizing people who think it is an issue at the start conditions them to not change their minds. back to dimitri i can concede the castigation of localisers is hyperbolic but can understand it because i understand his position and i think steal manning your opposition in good faith is the best why to understand them and convince others, as if someone has an opinion you will never convince them unless you can explain it back to them. Dimitri's thesis is simple and compelling and that is what you have to go against to prove your point. "There is nothing to be gained by conceding to changes no matter how small"... it might not be an exact quote but that is what i believe his core augment is ideologically and one that i cant help but agree. there are counter augments that can and have been made however i have yet to be convinced that the benefit would outweigh the loss. I appreciate the sharp and detailed response and if you want a more in depth discussion I'm down to i guess debate the topic, this back and forth seems more fit for a video/stream than a comment section, seems like wasted potential since we're basically sending essays to each other.

That's ultimately true, yeah, and it makes the conversation especially annoying. Most of the people involved in it on YT and Twitter I believe purely make the discourse worse as people like Dimitri operate in bad faith, and their opposition argues on their level and their terms without ever actually trying to advance the conversation in any meaningful or productive way. Ideally you'd only do the latter or maybe even both, but the fact that so few do is why I'm so exhausted by this discourse. That's fair. I just really wanted to do the Filthy Frank parody and let some of the music choices and soundbites from there thematically take the piss, even if you're right, it is ultimately bad decorum. Yeah, such an idea is difficult to combat, no matter how accurate you are and how much good information you present to counter it or take his approach in a more productive direction as opposed to the more destructive one he aims for. It's kind of like Brandolini's Law: the amlunt energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude greater than that needed to produce it. No amount of pointing out the person's dodgy credibility will be enough for most people, unfortunately, though it can help a few. Ultimately, I do believe localization has its place and the wholesale removal of it isn't of a worthwhile enough benefit, even today when it's less of a necessary evil than it was in the 80s/90s when exteme localization was so prevalent. Some works can and should have more leeway than others in this respect, and that's excluding works that are a more intrinsic multi-national collaboration like some popular or mainstream game franchises. Perhaps DMs elsewhere could suffice, as I'm really tired ot making localization videos, and like Dimitri, my stuff takes a while to make for a variety of reasons. I've got plenty of other stuff on the backburner, so I'd rather not spend more time making loc vids or responses regarding loc talking points.

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF fair enough i can imagine the topic getting dull after a few videos so ill leave it at that. its been a nice conversation even tho I'm sure we would disagree on the finer points. If you ever change your mind on a discussion, perhaps for a stream as it would only take as long as the conversation. drop a reply (i don't comment much so ill definitely see it) This is only an alt account so as a fellow small channel i wish you luck to monetisation.

bro is roleplaying

fuck yeah. this is cool

You do realize that for half a century, anime has been no stranger to multi-racial, multi-ethnic, or just generally multicultural representation, right? The fact that more artists and series take that into consideration isn't inherently a bad thing, unless you think the mere existence of ethnic/racial and other minorities in Anime and Japanese media subtracts from and is a detriment to Japanese culture. Mecha and cyberpunk anime of the 70s & 80s, and original anime of the late 90s and 2000s immediately come to mind before original and mecha anime of recent years or even games of recent years. It's peetty obvious the types of demographics Scratch Point holds disdain towards by the many tweets shown throughout that section, and he owns that fact. Also, DEI isn't even a modern concept for strictly modern audiences. It's just become paraded as a cultural boogeyman this past year or so by culture warriors.

The things that make anime attractive is EXACTLY that it is weird, unconventional, very culturally linked with japanese culture and history. NOBODY wants to watch "modern audience" bullshlt that is being forced into every single thing on earth. Why would anyone want to watch anime if it becomes identical to whatever bs is pumped out by hollywood nowadays? I have COMPLETELY stopped watching anything hollywood. Do you want to see what happens when you lose cultural sensibilities and put DEI into everything? Star Wars (Acolyte and all recent movies), Star Trek, LoTR, Doctor Who, WoW, Marvel etc. That's what. Total destruction of brand. Please defend that. Please do. The problem is NOT multicultural representation, but OVERWHELMING BAD caricature of a representation overtaking the primary goal of anime: an entertaining story. I DO NOT want to see any representatlon in entertainment. I am here for the uniqueness of anime. Which this "representatlon" will ironically kill and replace with same uniform DEI. Don't make it another dead brand of entertainment. DEI = DIE after all. The problem is NOT japanese authors wanting to add cultural influences from other cultures, but big corporations FORClNG them to do so. As Sony has proudly proclaimed. You want to make stories about minorities and other bs? DON'T invade and destroy other ips and entertainment to do so. Which is all DEI can do. MAKE YOUR OWN BULLSHlT. Which DEI obviously CANNOT do. Remember, Evil can only corrupt and destroy existing things, it cannot create anything new of its own. Also, you also have no issue with Europe being overrun by musIms either?

So, you're completely brushing past every example I've given of some of the many kinds of multicultural "DEI" anime of the past several decades. Also, literally nothing about this entire conversation has anything to do with anime even potentially turning into some modern Hollywood homogeny bullshit or whatever. It's just gonna sometimes take cues from global cultural zeitgeists and fuse that with current Japanese trends and long-standing traditions as it always has. Just because a few more games and anime have Black people and Lesbians and sometimes anime with that stuff suck as bad as some other low-grade anime, doesn't mean jack for shit. Also, we did still get some real good post-2015 Star Wars stuff like Andor, Rogue One, The Mandolorian (mainly S1), and from what I've heard and know to expect, Clone Wars S7 and Andor. The sequels after 7 being bad and some of the other SW shows being bad don't ersse all of this, especially when the issue is just as much or even more about mismanagement. The prequels were overall mid to shit with some head-scratching stupid lore decisions to boot, but we got a lot of good stuff in the 2000s so if the brand survived the fucking prequels, it can survive the Sequels and a mixed bag roster of spinoffs. I have no horse in this race for other franchises so I won't comment on those. Also, with the entire back half of your comments, you've basically shown your hand and that hand is exactly that of the types of people I rail against in this vid. I don't think there's any point in trying to discuss this any further beyond simply saying that you might wanna revisit some history, including that of Japanese culture and pop-culture, especially post-war Japan. Hell, you might wanna look a bit more closely at some of the supposedly "DEI infected" franchises and what original and beloved but often barely supported works non-whites make in America.

@@jaideepshekhar4621 I'm on @SerialNavelgazerCBF side on this. What Japanese company is forcing diversity into anime? I know that this might be the case for games, but anime? Today? Hell no. Every diverse aspect that has been included into anime have been more or less been decided by the creators to some extent. And even though the west have some influence of the culture of Japan, they are not so influential that they can be pushed into a certain direction in their media by force. That shit just doesn't happen. What current anime has been in anyway forced DEI into their shows to the detriment of said show? And given how isolationist and xenophobic Japan is as a country, that's not changing anytime soon.

The prospect of big western studios getting their paws on anime is something that looks both inevitable and like it will ruin the medium. But it isn't for this stupid reason, lol. Everything Scratch Point is saying aligns perfectly with far-right talking points, from anti-DEI to microaggressions to complaining about a "Western mind virus" because that's exactly what it is. It's trying to keep politics you don't agree with out of things you like, and well we have a thing called freedom of speech for that. Grow a pair. The reason western studios getting into anime is bad is because if they do, those studios will do what corporate America does to everything they deem marketable to a mass audience. They'll sand off all the rough edges; get rid of anything that's risky or fun until all that's left is a bland, joyless stream of sludge that appeals to no one by virtue of trying to appeal to everyone. That is why it's bad and that's why I am rather concerned about anime becoming so mainstream that the big studios are getting involved. Not this stupid "DEI ruins everything" crap. Commercialization is the death of art, not progressivism.

You get it

Not quite sure the analogy holds up, but the spirit is there and while a lot of "woke" localizations are fuckin shit, more people should focus on them being fuckin shit and indicative of poor ethos rather than "woke libtard political ruining and infecting our anime".

How tf does it relate at all?

That made no fucking sense.

Nice comment sexy~

Remember when someone asked him to identify the Astray and he called it the Hi-Nu? I wouldn't be surlrised if the only Gundam he watched was G and if he only had cursory knowledge of the franchise as a whole by proxy, and yet he wanted to go on about "Gundam fans, beware of the wole corrupting and ruining your franchise". Give me a break lul

I didn't say ZZ wasn't heteronormative, I said it had a main female pilot cast member (since Roux wad oart of the main squad and got to pilot the Zeta not too far into the show), alongside SEED Destiny, and most Build entries. Part of why Witch got culture war outrage was because on tip of being black and slated for a lesbian pairing, Suletta was also a female MC pilot. Hell, people who (understandably) never heard of Twilight Axis considered Suletta the first female pilot MC, when in reality, she's the second. Plus, even discounting the sexual tension Tomino admitted putting into Char snd Amuro's relationship in CCA, the point was that UC as a whole has some of these "woke political" elements, not every single entry in the timeline individually.

​@@SerialNavelgazerCBF If you want to like a mediocre show to own the chuds that's fine but saying just blatantly wrong statements does not help your case and have you even watched CCA the major conflict is because Char is angry at Amuro for killing Lalah, Tomino has an entire interview with Anno about how important Chars sexual relations with women are critical for the movies story .

So it's blatantly wrong to say that ZZ has a female pilot as part of the core cast? Are you high, or are you just being purposefully obtuse and ignoring what I've refured on account of you not paying attention? Also, assuming you mean ZZ is mediocre, you're wrong. ZZ is fucking dogshit and I hate it more than SEED Destiny and Twilight Axis. Plus, if you think I'd seriously be so vapid as to like a ahow specifically to "own the chuds" or whatever, I encourage you to check out my video shitting on the obviously white liberal Carole & Tuesday, and the vid where I shit on C&T alongside some other anime...because that show fucking sucks. Yeah, and he's ALSO gone on record elsewhere about the fact that he intended for there to be a lot of homoerotic tension between him and Amuro. Tomino is a lot of things, including someone who thinks about Nanai's pussy when scriptwriting CCA.

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF witch from mercury is mediocre given the statemnts in the video the reasons to like it are vapid. ZZ main character is Judau who is a boy who had actual romantic tension with Haman Karn who stated just before her death that she loved him. In CCA Char yells at Amuro how Lalah could have been a mother to him. The relations between man and woman , procreation of children is major theme of not only Gundam but almost all of Tominos works.

Ngl I haven't seen Witch, heard mixed thoughts, AUs have rarely been good. That doesn't really matter tho, the main idea was the idiotic outrage that quickly became fringe. Notice how I never gave an opinion on Witch itself. It's cuz I don't have one other than it has some great High Grade kits. Judau is the MC but Roux is literally part of his group of friends who get involved alongside him. It’s an ensemble cast, with Roux being part of said main ensemble and piloting the Zeta. The themes and Lalah yearning on display here don't suddenly mean Tomino never said what he said. In that same interview, he said he wanted to give the conflict between Amuro and Char a "raw, carnal feeling, to the degree that you might wonder if they're homosexual". That homoerotic tension, right there. Char gets Nanai pussy (or at least she'd totally be a match for him according to Tomino), misses mommy Lalah, and has homoerotic tension with Amuro.

No worries, and I appreciate the detailed response. I think I heard whispers about the Shin Chan dub being a travesty, interesting to hear more of it from you and about the head writer of the localization. And yea I heard pretty conflicting reports regarding how the Ghost Stories dub came to be and that the anime was a lot more successful than the popular story behind it made it out to be. I do still think AI requires significant and sweeping regulations for how companies can use generative text and ESPECIALLY voice AI for localizations (or in general) before I can consider it to have any kind of even limited place in these fields. I also completely agree that this being a political issue is stupid, but you know, culture war nerds and grifter types be culture war nerds and grifter types, so now a bunch of uh...politically motivated anime fans let's say, they're very vocal about this in a "muh woke localizer politics" sense as opposed to a "many bad localizations or bad moments in localizations are awkward, a misread on the character/situation, or just generally disrespectful towards the work and I don't like that" like it should more often be. It's just that most of the examples in anime that get pointed out are "gamergate/patriarchy" lines of which there are few. At least with manga, the changes are even less defensible and more sweeping, and even in games, sometimes it might be due to personal politics and culture clash for localizers and other times it's just them doing something really awkward. Anime and especially manga and video games aren't a one size fits all in terms of localizations, but while I think the issue is blown out of proportion (especially for modern anime), more work needs to be done by studios and companies to avoid and penalize these kinds of SNAFUs in the future. Certain localizers calling the bulk of their detractors "nazis" and whatnot aren't helping, though, and neither do other fans doing the same. It's all so stupid.

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF I’ve been Called a 4kids defender for not liking modern dubs. I’d much rather have 4kids then all the localization bullshit we put up with now. They say it’s hypocritical to say 4kids is fine but what modern localizers do is not, these people after 20 years still fail to realize 4kids was marketed for children and people who hated them were mostly high schoolers in anime clubs who thought japan was this paradise just like anime . With the way localizers act I don’t wanna be chastised for just wanting translations and localizations to be direct and not clearly politically biased. It’s not hard other asian novels and Japanese films never have that issue. But again those have actual translators working on them and not localizers. I don’t think it makes me a weeb who thinks japan is like anime when I prefer subs more now as an adult. I can’t stand crunchy roll and funimation dubs when they use the exact same 30 people they have in Texas. Is it their fault? No it’s easier to do. But I believe the my hero dub was so popular because they got new vas. Meanwhile in Japan they still have seiyuu who have been active since the 60’s still working. There’s way more variety in their actors, some say “that argument is worthless don’t you soy out hearing dios voice in something else?” Yeah but keep in mind Japan gets a whole lot more anime then we’ll ever get and with the industry going back so long. I dislike localizers because they can’t let shit go the changes they made must be absolute because the show failed or the worse excuse “it was funny and that was the only way it could be marketed.” Which for shin Chan I find absurd because we got doraemon faithfully dubbed 2 years after and it did perfectly well. I believe 80 or so episodes and two films were dubbed with the bang zoom cast. They contradict themselves a lot. Hell it’s not like this defenders know about the industry either their just defending those people because they voiced their waifu, aka since they dubbed a character I like they must be directly tied to the Japanese production process and therefore their Celebrities. This is how a lot of them speak about their fav English vas and it’s downright para social. I think 2006 ie ghost stories and shin Chan is where they truly alienated everyone and when people truly stopped watching dubs and moved more towards subs.

I personally believe the late 00s-early 2010s was probably the peak era in terms of the mix between well-known and high quality talent maintaining relevance or rising through the ranks through a ton of roles, and a lack of particularly dubious moments or dodgy ethos. It was technically more of a period where Funi's Texas site and Ocean's Canada site and a few other companies and locations were all there was so talent was slimmer. However, a lot of dubs there still felt quality without there being any of the kinds of things I noticed a lot of dubs (and subs) pre-2007 and post-2015 get flack for. The doors expanded more out of sheer necessity with the post-simulcast era with the California and New York sites for dubbing companies forming or being part of the same company, but even still yea a lot of sites are pretty limited and the removal of the remote set-ups people could/had to use during 2020/2021 is a real blow. Most dubs for especially popular shows, HeroAca included, have a pretty good mix of new/relatively fresh talent and well-established names, not that it hasn't been the case for a lot of popular shows even back in the days of early Naruto in the mid-00s, but yea. Options are limited for talents who would have to choose between Texas and New York and California and whatnot. 4Kids def gets a lot of hate but yea as you and Shaybs said, their approach was kinda how it had to be for these US networks to be able to market anime on TV, even for kids. This was well before the relaunched Toonami which is more adult-oriented with its late night time slot, which itself is already proof of how the landscape changed from the late 90s/early 00s to the late 00s-onwards where some studios and channels for kids didn't change as much about the names and other cultural factors. Bakugan and Beyblade Metal series when their dubs were produced by Canadian studios for Cartoon Network, didn't have the same approach that 4Kids took with Yugioh, Pokemon, etc. It was fine for these shows to try to keep as much as possible while still marketing their kids anime to kids unlike 4Kids whose shows would often only be seen as suitable for tweens and up in America if they didn't tone the content down for 7 year-olds and their parents. As you said, it's people who became teens in the mid-00s-onwards who became bitter about that stuff they grew up on cuz they later saw the blood and swearing and guns and whatnot in some of these shows that were still meant for Japanese kids. Doesn't mean 4Kids didn't succeed, regardless of how silly some of the censorship could be. Gag dubs, while already controversial back in the 00s, generally have no place nowadays...though they do have more of a place than gag subs like Inukai kinda sorta has to some extent. I don't think localizations need to be super direct, but I do believe subs should at least be pretty close translations, with localization that still reflects the language and context as accurately as possible. Dubs should be allowed a little more leeway to be a bit loose, especially for comedies, but ofc there's a limit and we all know Dragon Maid and Prison School's dubs crossed it at least once, which is still one too many. Glad some of these words are banned unless already deemed necessary for subs in Crunchyroll/the ghost of Funi. It's kinda silly seeing JelloApocalypse sneer at that when, obviously most of the time when they're being used in localizations, they don't reflect the characters or contexts, they reflect what certain localizers would probably say in such positions given their own personal viewpoints. I will also say, on the parasocial angle, seiyuus definitely have it worse in this regard in terms of how fans in Japan and overseas speak about or interact with them. If someone actually has a vested interest in seiyuu in America and not just "I don't care for dubs, I stick to subs", they're usually just as if not more parasocially dedicated than for fans of dub actors. Then there's Japan and we know how bad things can get there in that respect. For dubs, a lot of fans definitely have their favorites (I myself am partial to Patrick Seitz, Cristina Vee, Steve Blum, and several others) but we also know how much worse pay is for voice acting in especially anime dubs compared to seiyuu pay in Japan being, at the very least significantly better than animators.

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF your absolutely right about that aspect being worse in Japan hideaki anno is the best example of a die hard otaku growing to resent that culture because of the fans he had. I also keep in mind most not all but most English vas were failed theatre actors, comedians or even sceeenwriters, who only went to anime because that was all they could get. A lot of em wouldn’t even be successful today without anime. This naturally leads to some arrogance and wish fulfillment of living out that failed dream. At least how I see it. There needs to be like an actual discussion about it not an argument like a civil debate of some sort. I’ve already spoken with some of my Japanese Twitter friends and pukuji who has been bringing the issue to Japanese ears. A lot of em think it’s absolutely ridiculous and those people must be mentally Ill to do that. This is legitimately what Japanese otaku believe based off the numerous comments I’ve seen and there might be some actual hope for the future now that more landmark manga never avalible in English are being brought here like Ashite no joe, because in kodansha’s words “the market is maturing.” So maybe one day japan will crackdown to some extent, you already have the author of Hajime no ippo, saying the authors word is absolute. Granted he was speaking of the anime adapatation in light of the author of sexy Tanaka san’s suicide, but he stated it in a broad sense. I have hope it will be resolved at some point but because of the state of society right now and all the vas on Twitter who will straight up attack fans instead of having a civil discussion it will be a slow burn but I think in the next decade or so this issues gonna burst. It’ll take a while tho. But imo opinion miss marchis Twitter tirade and especially her response to asmongold will be the straw that broke the camels back. Jello as well.

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF I think the doesn’t help that Al Kahn the executive at 4kids literally said in an anime convention that “manga is a problem”, “kids don’t read”, and “Japan is over”