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an antinatalist
เข้าร่วมเมื่อ 10 เม.ย. 2019
Alex O'Connor and Rationality Rules discuss antinatalism
From Alex's 1 Million Subscriber Livestream
th-cam.com/users/liveFSkAHrC9UEE?t=38048s
th-cam.com/users/liveFSkAHrC9UEE?t=38048s
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Parents Are People
มุมมอง 73ปีที่แล้ว
"In Israel and Gaza, children are directly facing the fact that the adults around them cannot protect them." An excerpt from This American Life episode 814 - Parents Are People. www.thisamericanlife.org/814/parents-are-people
Man speaks about his children
มุมมอง 48ปีที่แล้ว
Photo and audio from www.thisamericanlife.org/819/yousefs-week
Seth Rogen on having kids
มุมมอง 7K4 ปีที่แล้ว
From Marc Maron's podcast. Full episode here: www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1143-seth-rogen #childfree #antinatalism
Happy Cow
มุมมอง 1535 ปีที่แล้ว
From "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe" by Douglas Adams. Read by Martin Freeman.
In the name of the unborn - Théophile de Giraud
มุมมอง 7325 ปีที่แล้ว
Théophile de Giraud speaking at the "General Assembly" (5th of November 2017) about #Antinatalism Translated with the help of this version: th-cam.com/video/Bw6msZpnblI/w-d-xo.html For info on the event and videos with English language interpreter see: www.general-assembly.net/en/agenda/ (Théophile was in the Fifth Plenary Session at 2:18:47)
True Detective Scene
มุมมอง 6705 ปีที่แล้ว
from first episode. #pessimism #antinatalism Read interview with the screenwriter here: on.wsj.com/2WvBDx4 and David Benatar's response to the subject here: bit.ly/2q7xtiV
The Harm of Coming Into Existence - Interview with David Benatar
มุมมอง 9K5 ปีที่แล้ว
May 31, 2015 WNYC www.wnyc.org/story/the-harm-of-coming-into-existence/
Woody Allen - "The horrible and the miserable"
มุมมอง 2255 ปีที่แล้ว
Scene from "Annie Hall" מתוך "הרומן שלי עם אנני" All materials in this video are the property of United Artists, no copyright infringement intended.
Head of TED Chris Anderson in conversation with historian Yuval Noah Harari
มุมมอง 5355 ปีที่แล้ว
Renowned historian Yuval Noah Harari is known for his insightful commentary on Homo sapiens, but it's only when he meets a brilliant mind like Head of TED Chris Anderson that his genius really shines and the intellectual sparks start flying. source: th-cam.com/video/szt7f5NmE9E/w-d-xo.html
To bring more sentence beeings into existence that suffer is pure evil.
Based on what standard?
Letting sentient beings suffer for your own conveniences and benefits is actually pure evil.
@@Seanain_O_hEarchai Based on the human standard. Humans hate to suffer and die. Based on your standard, my standard, that person who's to be born's standard.
I didn't expect alex connor to say that close minded thing about him having children.
Alex also used to not be vegan. I'm not vegan or anti natalist but I find both rational and ethically convincing.
4:33 The point being that you most likely WILL suffer that when it comes to the end of your life.
The problem is that some "tragedy " is actually "comedy " depending on the situation, for exemple, watching a horror movie or a Rollercoaster, those things gives you pleasure and happiness, but they are actually terrible experiences, another exemple is jackass, of course they are being paid, but they turn something that could be considered "torture" as something funny and even fun. And somethimes a trauma can make a beautiful thing into something terrible, like a clown phobia.
If anyone were absolutely certain about naturalism being 100% true, the so-called antinatalism would make sense.
well, naturalism is 99,999999999% true also, I dont see any logical connection here: why would existence of some transcedent, ultra-natural power/being/whatever make procreation morally right?
@adamborowicz7209 Hey, first off, this is not any what people like you may call “Theistic argument,” rather, it's truth! As, in the end, so-called hardcore “Antinatalist” ones may say or say even if human species cease to exist or extinct, it doesn't matter, and might interfere the life of other species as well. Who are you to say, naturalism is 99.99...% true?! Indeed It's a matter of unprovable for good.
The two gentlemen seem to think that what makes something morally good is pleasure and what makes something morally bad is suffering. Have they examined these ideas? It seems obvious to me that it's not the case
If you honestly don't think that suffering is morally bad, then you haven't suffered badly enough to know any better.
pleasure being good and suffering being bad are like the 2 most certain things one can possibly know
@@solog361 @AnonymousWon-uu5yn hypothetical: a man has the choice to give his 8 year old son to bad men, who will kill the son quickly. His other option is to give himself over to the bad men, who will instead torture and kill him. Assuming the father does not care about his son, is it morally better for him to hand over his son or sacrifice himself? Sacrificing his son will, after all, result in less suffering. Moreover, if antinatalism is correct and it's bad to bring people into the world because they will suffer, then wouldn't the most morally correct thing to do for the world be omnicide? Killing literally everyone? Holocaust x1000?
what is morally bad is to make lottery with somebodys life which is all reproductors do they cannot know if their offspring will have "good" or "bad" life
When antinatalists doesn't want to end their own life that means they think living is worthwhile. So not makes children makes no sense. They have no reason to think that the children lives wouldn't be worthwhile as well.
2 gay guys walk into a bar
It is evil to force someone into the type of existence that they might hate to exist in and that's why I'm for extinction.
It is also evil to prevent someone to get into an existence that they might enjoy and thrive in.
Reddit tier neck beard take.
@@adam-k no it's not evil if they don't exist because they won't know or care that they don't exist.
@@AnonymousWon-uu5yn Dead people also don't know or care that they don't exist. Don't suffer either That is not a moral justification for murder.
@@adam-k what did he say about nobody existing on mars. It's not bad that they're not experiencing any pleasure and it's good that they're not suffering.
when you have children, your karma becomes tied to this place, and you cannot be released from the birth/death reincarnation cycle. step one to escaping the soul trap is to not have children.
What if you enjoy life? Why on Earth would you want to be released from the birth/death reincarnation cycle?
@@adam-k Just because you are currently enjoying your life right now that doesn't guarantee that you won't have something happen to you that will make you hate existing later on in your life. And just because you are currently enjoying your life that doesn't guarantee that your child will also enjoy their life. And if your child never comes into existence then that's just fine because they won't ever know or care that they never existed.
Hubris also ties ones soul to samsara and you seem to have a wealth of it
@ Hubris like thinking you know what is best for other people? I think when you are ready to tell people how to live their life then you are not ready for nirvana yet.
Source: drugs
🖤
Antinatalism is everything but depressing to me. I was delighted when I found out about this movement. For me it's the most ethical idea ever. Pronatalism is depressing. It's pro-continuation of suffering, with the support of the majority of humans, all selfish hypocrites who say they love their kids and then gamble with their kids' lives. Give me a break.
EXACTLY! I came to the conclusion that parents dont love their kids and antinatalist love their unborn kids because they take a critical look at this world snd life and keep them that way. If u ask people is the world a good place or a bad place?Most will be honest abd say a bad place so how can u love or have someone’s best interest by forcing them to a bad place filled with people and countless things you have to try and protect them from? Makes no sense at all! Having a baby is immoral and unethical!
you seem like a very pathetic individual
In order to advance knowledge, there must be somebody to "know things". And in order for us to someday know everything, or at least "enough", we'll have to keep learning, so that someday, we will no longer have to keep saying "Had we have known better". Living is required for learning, Health is required for living, Treating each other well makes us healthy, Being healthy enables us to live longer and learn more Thus we must treat each other well so that we may remain healthy and keep learning to find the truth.
You should live alone in the wild (only relying on yourself) when you don't want to gamble with their kids' lives!
@@ozzylepunknown551learning and staying healthy is not needed when the person never comes into existence. These things that you're mentioning are irrelevant when it comes to antinatalism.
"It's just going that way" That's how I feel about deciding to have only one child. People are so obnoxious asking when we will have another but we're not. We don't want to. Having a child is more good than bad for us but why would I care if someone else doesn't want kids?
3:40 Wow! What an argument. EDIT: 5:30 Benatar's response is EPIC! Totally dismantled his parroting of this idea that suffering creates meaning.
I wish I wasn’t even born, I have to suffer from depression and anxiety disorder. I am not proud of myself as a human being, I am a total failure to society. This is why I am single/unmarried and childfree because I don’t deserve to be a husband and father. I know that I am not financially, mentally, emotionally and spiritually fit for that lifestyle.
You're child-free? Congratulations! Just think of all the suffering you've prevented - something to be very proud of!
💛💛💛💛💛💛💛💛💛💛💛💛
The kidney stone argument for antinatalism. I've had 18. One took 9 days to pass. They're like having a knife pressed into your body and never let's up. In fact it pulses and gets worse once urine is backed up. I'd rather never to have existed than having a life of kidney stones. I'm disappointed in this interviewer. He got personal 😮 good microphone quality does not equal good journalism.
Do these idiots realise that they dont stay kids forever? Marc is nearly 60. Hes old enough to have a 40 year old "child"
Sure! In just 18 short years you can get back to your free time and self enjoyment 😂😂
This man is telling nothing but the truth and u see these aholes sit there with their little stupid narcissist smirks on their stupid faces. Its a joke to them cause they have no empathy and impose life, suffering and death on their kids without even a second thought. Aholes!
He’s definitely antinatalist
Good! So am I!!!!
Wow the interviewer must be really rich and have a nice life or completely delusional
👍
If you want children, you should adopt because there are so many children that are in foster homes and orphanages. Adoption would be less selfish than bringing a biological child into the world because you are focusing on life that is already here instead of creating life. I am choosing not to have children for a huge amount of reasons. #childfreebychoice #childfreeforever #childfreemovement
Yeah same here and I’m 25. I don’t want kids in the future
This is just pathetic lmao
1:45 humans have a positive bias? Just look at the news, it's all doom and gloom, humans always give more attention to negative stuff.
Yes 80% of people have an optimism bias. Look it up.
The professor is neither a positive nor a negative person - he is a REALIST. You come out of the womb screaming. From that moment forward, you experience varying but ultimate degrees of pain throughout life. You fervently grab for any and all pleasurable things you can get or experience to offset all of the pain you have, are, or will experience in the future, By doing so, you convince yourself that you had a fulfilling and significant existence before you die. That's it in a nutshell.
They spank you. Thus, the abuse begin soon as you come out of the womb. Red flag.
The bad things that happen to us lead to long lasting, if not permanent, depression, anxiety, trauma, PTSD, and even suicide. The good things are over quickly and have no lasting residual effects.
People are more risk-averse than reward seeking.
The interviewer is so biased and a joke to all thinkers that exist out there. To laugh in the face of professor, at least said, says enough about his brain and personality. Hard to to listen to his questions and reactions
Powerful stuff
Outstanding Benatar and Dawkins are my favorites
Same
th-cam.com/video/6-RskB3gxoE/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=ClipClipperson
The REAL problem in this is that benatar is so clever that people who are unable to think rationally due to their genetic programming, can not step back and evaluete his arguments from a neutral standing point and thereby fail to acknowledge the fact that he is 100 % correct.
But... he is simply not, he is just very biased against life itself. His arguments are quite illogical, and can be used to back up natalism just as easily, he just arbitrarily gives more significance to the lack of suffering when there is nobody to experience it, which is idiotic, lack of suffering has no meaning if there isn't anyone to experience it
@@Gman711the axiological asymmetry is simply an observational truth that people value the prevention of suffering over the chase of a comparable joy. The way he describes it may not be very intuitive, but the point still stands
@@antinataliz9633 yes, and how does that lead to the conclusion that having children is immoral?
@@Gman711 procreation creates joy at the expense of also creating suffering. AA is true, ergo procreation is unethical.
@@antinataliz9633 please stop, that sentence makes 0 sense. Using fancy words as "ergo" doesn't make what you say true. AA is NOT a good argument, the lack of suffering from non-existence has no value to anyone, lack of suffering is only valuable to someone who already exists, so how are you better off not being born at all?Completely stupid, lack of suffering or joy have no value unless you already exist.
Pleasures are just absence of pain.
Asymmetry argument is very powerful and flawless logical construction.
It’s easy for billionaires like Elon musk or rich famous celebrities to push for people to have more children because they have the money to afford them. But us common folk who are slaves to the system can’t. The best way to beat our corrupt system is to not reproduce any more slaves into their sick evil system for them to profit off of our misery, abuse, manipulate, control, brainwash, misuse and steal our tax dollars, and money spent on things that only make them even richer!
I love dr David benatar, he is the man
David have the speech skill maxed out
Benatar is the Jesus of Antinatalism. The greatest messenger of the philosophy!
it is jesus, lower case for things that do not exist.
Kids...boring...
someone is projecting
Boring but keeps you busy. The worst combination!
@@princessm6355 if you have no personal aspirations then yes, I could see how kids enable you to ignore your shortcomings as a person
I've thought this, and kinda scares me if I did something wrong for the sake of my son that I wonder if I was selfish for wanting/having a son. At this point, dragging his soul into existence without asking his permission first, I have no choice but to love and raise him best I can.
I first told my mom that I wished I had never been born when I was 12 years old. I am nearly 40 and I have never changed my mind. Both she and my father know this and I know it kills them, but the life they gave me is my burden to bear, and the decision to create that life will always be their burden to bear. I have three sisters, one of whom has two kids, the other two will probably have kids. I told my dad, 3 or your 4 children are glad they were born, those aren’t bad odds. If your son is glad he is alive, then you can rest easily that your decision at least resulted in a happy person. If he ever decides he wishes he hadn’t been born, then indeed that will be your burden to bear. Only time tells.
And hope that he doesnt turn against you. It happens more than you can imagine.
What came _after_ non-existence before birth? Answer: birth. The birth of an organism is what ended said non-existence before birth... Will organisms be born after the one reading this dies? Yes! And so just as non-existence was followed by a life (the one reading this right now), non-existence will once again be followed by a life.
Meds.
Until the universe turns cold and all atoms are scattered too far away, life is temporary, the universe is dying out slowly
Why do people still not understand that bringing people here after ww1 & ww2 is evil? Are people truelly that retarted?
@Educat ional Because it was one of the most evil times ever, people went in the gas chambers, because they where Jewish or where not born the right way. And it is even documented with some camera proof. Look at the serie Dachau, people keep having wars untill they go fully exstinct. I just gave an example btw or do you think it wasn't that awfull, that people got forced in concentration camps, because they where from an "unholy" background or something they where born with? I know for sure, when Antarctica is getting liveable, big wars will come for that continent, because it isn't almost plundered by anyone.
Learn how to spell before using the word "retarded".
@@naturalisted1714 It's also funny that you don't have any decent counter argument about what I just said lol. You probably have children isn't;)? Instead you go for my grammar and because I am no native speaker, I can make such mistakes and I always try to improve, so why don't you give me some help my grammar and give me a decent counter argument why I am not right;) I loveeee to hear it from you! And why did you remove your comment, you coward lol.
@Educat ional What disagreement? I like to discuss why you're not agreeing with me. Everything I said is based on facts about ww1 & 2, especially ww2 and if you know human nature, you know that there will be a war for Antarctica.
@@erikdekker1 it was ALWAYS evil on earth. The entire reality was created and maintained by an evil creator. Let that sink in.
Bravo!!!!!!!
Bro, they must make a Robot of Seth because his laugh is awesome
it's terrible
Its kind of hard to argue with a professor in this topic but sure he is right. There is a assymetry between pleasure and pain. And all you see and experience is like a laptop. You dont know what reality is. Its like writing a email. You just see a interface made for survival. You dont understand the voltage or how a computer sen the mail or how it transfers the letters you write on your keyboard to a message able to send. So in the case of pleasure, suffering and meaning to create life is to create suffering because the bad outweights the good by infinite unless your life is only good. Because if you take away the goid in kife from someone whom dont exist its not bad because there is no one able to experience the good. So it cant be bad. So its a great argument
I want to bring up the point that many people who are alive if given the right conditions and circumstances would want to end their lives...
Yess but nature has made it very difficult and horrifying painful to exist from this cruel world.
Creating MORE deaths is EVIL and SADISTIC. NO biological parent cares what happens to their kids or grandkids. NO one wants to deteriorate and NO one wants to face their own death. But breeders FORCED their offspring into a Death Trap. At the age of about 3 years old we all learned that we must die. People who are old enough to have intercourse know that their potential children will have to deteriorate and die. Breeders breed because they are so miserable that they have to face their own death that they want to force mini-mes' into existence that will have to be traumatized over their parents' deaths. Misery loves company. It is always extremely selfish and cruel to force sentient beings into existence knowing that they will have to deteriorate and face their own death. Biological children owe their parents NOTHING, but biological parents owe their children EVERYTHING.
he is like a messenger from the future, talking to a civilisation gone mad!
And that's why the existing civilisation calls him as mad rather than questioning its own insanity. Ridiculous!
What f-ing future? If he is to be listened to there should be no future, smh... this is insane
Yes, someone with common sense👏🏽