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Quick Elky Update
Quick update on the 83 El Camino, after it's been so long!
มุมมอง: 145

วีดีโอ

83 El Camino steering gear box replacement
มุมมอง 874ปีที่แล้ว
83 El Camino steering gear box replacement: part #s: cpp gear box - cp50004 adapters fittings - clp-500IOA
LS Swaps at Goodguys Raleigh 2022
มุมมอง 202 ปีที่แล้ว
LS Swaps at GoodGuys Raleigh 2022
97 Jeep Wrangler LED headlights
มุมมอง 362 ปีที่แล้ว
97 Jeep Wrangler LED headlights
97 Wrangler Parking Brake adjustment and replacement
มุมมอง 3.2K2 ปีที่แล้ว
97 Wrangler Parking Brake adjustment and replacement
97 Wrangler quick update
มุมมอง 152 ปีที่แล้ว
97 Wrangler quick update
New Project
มุมมอง 202 ปีที่แล้ว
97 Wrangler walk around
LS Swaps Good Guys Raleigh 2021
มุมมอง 2033 ปีที่แล้ว
Hi all, thanks for helping me hit 500! There were some pretty great LS swaps at Good Guys North Carolina Nationals, Raleigh this weekend. Hope this gives you some inspiration for your project, enjoy! #GoodGuysRaleigh #NorthCarolinaNationals #LSswap
83 El Camino rear suspension upgrade
มุมมอง 1.9K3 ปีที่แล้ว
83 El Camino rear suspension upgrade
83 El Camino LS Swap Lessons learned and total cost condensed
มุมมอง 2.6K3 ปีที่แล้ว
Hi All, due to the feedback I've received on the previous video, I have condensed the old video into a new one that’s less than 10 minutes with narration. Hang around to the end where I review the total cost, Enjoy, Part numbers: LS Swap Mounts: SR-AL-LSXMOUNT Headers: "S10 LS Swap headers" off ebay Oil Pan: 302-1 Holley LS swap pan 1st gen Cam: Corvette z06 - 12565308 LS to 700r4 adapter ring:...
83 El Camino LS Swap
มุมมอง 1K4 ปีที่แล้ว
just a quick walk around
How to use a rental ball joint separator and spring compressor
มุมมอง 19K4 ปีที่แล้ว
Just a quick video showing you how to use these 2 rental tools from the local auto parts store to work on your suspension.
83 El Camino First Oil Change
มุมมอง 1.1K4 ปีที่แล้ว
short video documenting the first oil change on the newish motor.
83 El Camino Front Suspension Upgrade
มุมมอง 8K4 ปีที่แล้ว
Hey All, sorry for the delay, I know it's been a while. Part of the reason is because I finally got the QA1 front suspension installed! It took quite a while and was a huge learning process, but all in all I'm happy with the results. Take a look for yourself.
83 El Camino update
มุมมอง 2134 ปีที่แล้ว
Discussing future projects: QA1 G-body suspension kit: HK22-GMG1
83 El Camino 5.3 LS swap lessons learned
มุมมอง 72K4 ปีที่แล้ว
83 El Camino 5.3 LS swap lessons learned
83 El Camino 5.3 LS swap Cruise around
มุมมอง 1.7K4 ปีที่แล้ว
83 El Camino 5.3 LS swap Cruise around
83 El Camino 5.3 LS swap Dyno Day
มุมมอง 1.2K5 ปีที่แล้ว
83 El Camino 5.3 LS swap Dyno Day
83 El Camino 5.3 LS Swap New Exhaust
มุมมอง 3.2K5 ปีที่แล้ว
83 El Camino 5.3 LS Swap New Exhaust
83 el camino 5.3 ls swap open headers
มุมมอง 1.5K5 ปีที่แล้ว
83 el camino 5.3 ls swap open headers
83 El Camino Fiberglass Repair
มุมมอง 835 ปีที่แล้ว
83 El Camino Fiberglass Repair
83 El Camino 5.3 LS Swap Teaser
มุมมอง 5095 ปีที่แล้ว
83 El Camino 5.3 LS Swap Teaser
83 G Force crossmember install
มุมมอง 8K5 ปีที่แล้ว
83 G Force crossmember install
83 El Camino update, & engine mount question
มุมมอง 4185 ปีที่แล้ว
83 El Camino update, & engine mount question
El Camino quick update
มุมมอง 1355 ปีที่แล้ว
El Camino quick update
83 El Camino Fuel Prep
มุมมอง 5365 ปีที่แล้ว
83 El Camino Fuel Prep
5.3 Part 13 - Final Assembly
มุมมอง 4.7K5 ปีที่แล้ว
5.3 Part 13 - Final Assembly
5.3 Part 12 - Top end component installs
มุมมอง 3686 ปีที่แล้ว
5.3 Part 12 - Top end component installs
5.3 Part 11 - Rear cover and flywheel install
มุมมอง 8K6 ปีที่แล้ว
5.3 Part 11 - Rear cover and flywheel install
5.3 Part 10 - Head install
มุมมอง 49K6 ปีที่แล้ว
5.3 Part 10 - Head install

ความคิดเห็น

  • @hectorjvazquez3345
    @hectorjvazquez3345 13 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Horrible work

  • @313ralphiee7
    @313ralphiee7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Do you have a part number for the headers

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud หลายเดือนก่อน

      hey man, i dont. i just used some s10 ls swap shorty headers because they fit without any adjustment...search on ebay "Stainless Headers For 1982-2004 Chevrolet S10 Blazer LS1 Sonoma Engine Swap"

  • @zourdiesel8579
    @zourdiesel8579 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Diego & Friends 😬

  • @oliverhuaracha9603
    @oliverhuaracha9603 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Can I see more pics of that exhaust exits? Been needing a proper exit and yours looks perfect!

  • @bulliescarsandars4584
    @bulliescarsandars4584 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    You remember the P/N for that kit

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      HK22-GMG1

  • @salvadorcabezas2630
    @salvadorcabezas2630 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Want mods to it

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      1983 El Camino - 2nd owner since 2002 Rear • Auburn Limited Slip • 3:42 (originally 2:41) • Drum to disc conversion Trans (originally THM 350) • 4l660e • TCI wiring and controller • TCI speed sensor Engine (originally stock SBC 305 Rochester Q-jet) • 07/08 LH6 (5.3, 4th gen) D.O.D. deleted • Stock bottom end (flat top pistons) • Z06 Cam LS6 o .550'' Int. / .550'' Exh o 204° Int / 218° Exh o 117.5° LSA • Z06 springs/retainers • Comp Cams trunnion upgrade • Comp Cams adjustable double roller timing chain kit • Holley oil pan • Holley Dual Plane intake • MSD 6014 LS box • Brawler 650 CFM, mechanical secondary’s Suspension • QA1 Sway bar, upper and lower control arms, tie rods • QA1 Single adjustable coil overs • CPP 14:1 ratio steering gear box Other • Electric fan • External trans cooler • SS brake lines • True dual exhaust • Sanden A/C compressor, Kwik performance LS bracket kit • 15” S10 wheels

  • @davesippel914
    @davesippel914 ปีที่แล้ว

    I’m doing this soon. I was curious about setting the brake at the 5th notch. Why did you do that? Thanks for the help.

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud ปีที่แล้ว

      happy to help Dave!

  • @daneloso1236
    @daneloso1236 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the vid helped me out a ton

  • @josephdollaway7330
    @josephdollaway7330 ปีที่แล้ว

    I just did the same one in my 84 SS you should have put the mount on first, Much easier.

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud ปีที่แล้ว

      good advice, ill try it when i have replace this one for the 4l60e, thanks

  • @caravan4441
    @caravan4441 ปีที่แล้ว

    Keep up the good work man, I just got an 83 El camino & I’ve been watching your videos :)

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud ปีที่แล้ว

      thanks for the feedback, good luck with yours!

  • @MrYukon04
    @MrYukon04 ปีที่แล้ว

    If those are stock pistons then that's a 4.8 not 5.3 4.8 has flat tops 5.3 are dished

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud ปีที่แล้ว

      initially that was my thought as well. the casting number and block say it's a lh6/5.3 tho - 12571048

    • @MrYukon04
      @MrYukon04 ปีที่แล้ว

      Lh6 is the aluminum gen4 5.3. I swore it looked like a iron block lol

  • @rickhoff
    @rickhoff ปีที่แล้ว

    The music though!!😎

  • @ericchavez6053
    @ericchavez6053 ปีที่แล้ว

    how tight do u do the bolts up to the tranny. im getting rattling on my car now

  • @planetkaziah
    @planetkaziah ปีที่แล้ว

    Hello, I know this is old but, was curious to know what you lubricated the lifters with? Thanks, Brian

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi Brian, you just soak them in motor oil of your choosing overnight, cam shaft has assembly lube on it

  • @VeganGorilla555
    @VeganGorilla555 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good video. I have a Canadian Jeep and my adjuster is pretty rotten and needs replacing.

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud ปีที่แล้ว

      thanks! good luck with it!

  • @eleven8948
    @eleven8948 ปีที่แล้ว

    Did the transmission sit higher after installing this crossmember? I noticed I had to jack it up as far up as it can go in order to fit the energy mount and looks like it will only drop about an inch or so once I am done.

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud ปีที่แล้ว

      yes it did, but from my side it didn't make a big enough difference to change any of the drive shaft length or anything like that

    • @eleven8948
      @eleven8948 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@av8bud Thanks. I think its because my car may be on jack stands and with the rear wheels hanging low it makes the drive shaft angle look higher on the transmission side

  • @michaelkinsey363
    @michaelkinsey363 ปีที่แล้ว

    Do you like the eBay headers ? Did you have to run an regulator? Great build love it

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi Mike, the fit of the eBay headers is pretty good, imo, from what I've seen of other headers they take a lot of massaging to fit. With these you just install and go. Downside is they changing color with the repeated heat cycles. Not sure if that's normal for headers or if that's because these are made in China, as I thought they were advertised as stainless steel. Either way, I'd definitely recommend wrapping them before you install. The heat soak from them has been a big adjustment for me, and its caused issues with vapor lock in the summer. So much so that I had to put a spacer between the carb and intake. my 2 cents. Yes, I have a regulator. My understanding is you want to always have one to protect the system, just in case there's an issue. Last I checked mine was set to 6 psi. haven't touched it since, thanks for the questions,

    • @michaelkinsey363
      @michaelkinsey363 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@av8bud thanks bro I will wrap them before install . What version msd wires you bought ?

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud ปีที่แล้ว

      Mike, I just used the msd 8mm cut to fit wires. the boots on the spark plug side fit a lot better then the stock ones with those headers.

  • @rodericklewis2601
    @rodericklewis2601 ปีที่แล้ว

    What crank sensor you had to use??

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud ปีที่แล้ว

      It’s an 07 Tahoe motor so I used the stock 58 tooth reluctor sensor. The msd box reads both-duralast su9538

  • @MicroFoxFilms
    @MicroFoxFilms ปีที่แล้ว

    very good and underrated video. will be using this.

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks a lot for the feedback, happy to help!

  • @GypsyMLB
    @GypsyMLB ปีที่แล้ว

    Was something malfunctioning on the old adjuster unit?

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud ปีที่แล้ว

      it just felt loose, like it wasn't grabbing till the lever was at the very top. plus, it was apparently a beach cruiser in its previous life and came with a brand-new adjuster in the console, so decided to replace it.

  • @wayneharding824
    @wayneharding824 ปีที่แล้ว

    Piece of s+-&t info

  • @TheNoblegentlemen377
    @TheNoblegentlemen377 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    What’s the horsepower/torque? Looks great thanks for the info. You put out in the video.

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      thanks! 264hp/301tq @ the wheels...th-cam.com/video/uGuDK6nHjMc/w-d-xo.html

  • @jred4345
    @jred4345 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good video. Where you get the motor

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      thanks, some guy was selling on FB marketplace

  • @JonOffgrid
    @JonOffgrid 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    how is the msd doing i here the order ones was not to good they stop working

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      so far so good on this one but this is the newer 6014 model

    • @JonOffgrid
      @JonOffgrid 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@av8bud cool i won ting to put ls in my k2500

  • @Only1JOAT
    @Only1JOAT 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ly5?

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      LH6

  • @dennisrohman1485
    @dennisrohman1485 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Torch on head bolts

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      for ARP - 3 stages on the 11mm: 25ftlb, 50ftlb, 75ftlb. for the 8mm - 25ftlb arpinstructions.com/instructions/134-3610.pdf

  • @derrycktarver2976
    @derrycktarver2976 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just got an 82 El Camino suspension is the first thing I want to do would appreciate if you could give me the part # on trailing arms.

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      hey Derryck, yea this is the QA1 stage 2 g-body handling kit. Part #: HK22-gmg1 was around 4500$ all the individual part numbers are in the kit on their site... www.qa1.net/automotive/suspension/full-vehicle-kits-systems/handling-suspension-kits

    • @derrycktarver2976
      @derrycktarver2976 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@av8bud ok Thanks

  • @derrycktarver2976
    @derrycktarver2976 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Do you still have the part # for the whole kit? Including sway bar & tire rod.

  • @ibrahim-chevelleMalibuman
    @ibrahim-chevelleMalibuman 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Did you use Buick grand national fuel injected tank or you kept your stock tank i was wondering if there is an stalling issue when you sharp turn?

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      hi, no, right now its just the stock carb fuel tank. I will probably change tanks when/if i decide to go fuel injection. unfortunately i think most of the other gbody tanks are different and incompatible with the el camino. not really a stalling issue when i turn more of a heat soak issue causing vapor lock when the car sits at a stop light too long in the summer.

    • @ibrahim-chevelleMalibuman
      @ibrahim-chevelleMalibuman 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@av8bud I was wondering what cfm carb you used and did you re size the jet’s or it worked just fine ? Thanks

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ibrahim-chevelleMalibuman this is a brawler 650 (holley)...i used the stock jets for a while and then when i had it dynod they put smaller jets in as it was running too rich from the factory. i think 72 to 64, dont quote me on that tho...after using it for a while, i think it could probably use a bigger carb tho, seems most folks use a 750.

  • @electricdiesel1993
    @electricdiesel1993 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    305 exhaust was the same as the Holden Kingswood pick up ute.

  • @___Eldritch
    @___Eldritch 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    My 5.3 was only 22ft lbs and then a pass of 90° turns on all of them, and another final pass of 90° turns.

  • @aw9680
    @aw9680 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    If your choke wasn't wired up... Did you adjust the thermostat open all the way? If there is no power to the thermostat it won't open all the way. If your choke is even a little closed, at idle it will flood itself out.

  • @xekret
    @xekret 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    What belt did you use? I assume you dont have an AC compressor right?

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      hey, i actually do have AC now, so I've had 2 belts. This is the one i have in my glove box not sure if its for w/ or w/out, but probably a good starting place - 6pk2821 (061110)

    • @xekret
      @xekret 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@av8bud Thank you! I put my swap on hold but will make a note of the belt you gave me. Keep up the good work!

  • @jbkuztoms5329
    @jbkuztoms5329 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    What oil pan did you use

    • @jbkuztoms5329
      @jbkuztoms5329 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Im thinking of the muscle car pan

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jbkuztoms5329 302-1 Holley LS swap pan 1st gen

    • @jbkuztoms5329
      @jbkuztoms5329 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@av8bud ok thank you

  • @michaelwittke8336
    @michaelwittke8336 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Coast Guard? ^5

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Semper P brother,

    • @michaelwittke8336
      @michaelwittke8336 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@av8bud what (really) surprises me is that after nearly 20 years, no one has developed a roots style blower manifold (Weiand hopefully) for the LS that will facilitate carburation. Would LOVE to integrate that into my next project

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@michaelwittke8336 i think the blower shop just released a kit for LSs, carbed i believe as well: theblowershop.com/tbs-roots-style-superchargers/the-blower-shop-chevy-ls1-ls3-manifold-and-drive-kits/

    • @michaelwittke8336
      @michaelwittke8336 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@av8bud was hoping for a manifold that would work with one of the Weiand kits (142/144) Noticed some bottom halves around the interweb, I guy might just have to take a 3/4 aluminum plate and fab up one

  • @johnnyjohn8073
    @johnnyjohn8073 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I never use large torque wrenches for tightening anything under 25 Ft.Lbs. even if they are capable of torquing as low as 5ft.Lb. There is just too much leverage when they are too long & it's hard to tell of you're going over the torque by simply feeling & waiting to hear a click. With smaller torque wrenches, you can actually feel the resistance when you are approaching the proper torque just before you hear the click. I also broke several bolts in the past using too large of a torque wrench. So did you figure out if the long bolts are torqued at a different setting? I was watching your other video & I clicked on the link on your comment to see which oil pan you used on your LS swap for your Elco. I plan on doing the same for my 79 so I'm doing a little research. I may never even get to it before losing interest since I have other projects going on. But thanks for your informational videos.

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      agreed, unfortunately this was all i could get my hands on...need to invest in a good set lol...yes, they are, i found out the hard way by overtightening and snapping one of them. they are 106inlbs. I'd advise to be careful with the swap pan, the newer one is shallower and didn't fit my block. I have a gen 4 block which could be the reason, so be careful. good luck and thanks for watching,

  • @spud120
    @spud120 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I got a 85 monte carlo just installed the 700r4 and I can't get my g force crossmember to budge, one side goes on but can't fit the other side on. How is your angle on the part you bolt to the frame? Mines at a angle and i can't seem to get it together... Any help would be well appreciated

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      hey, yea mine is angled too. what are you having an issue with? the issue i ran into was it was rubbing the bottom of the floor pan, so i had to really hit it hard to get it into place as you see in the video. I probably could have also pryed the floor pan up a little to get it moving but i didnt want to punch through. If thats the issue, bolt one side into place and then bang hard on the other side like i did.

    • @josephdollaway7330
      @josephdollaway7330 ปีที่แล้ว

      I had to remove pass side heat shield

  • @codyweien4513
    @codyweien4513 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have the exact opposite issue yoy did 😮‍💨

  • @codyweien4513
    @codyweien4513 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The cam I bought for my 03 4.8 turned out to be a new style single bolt. Wtf do I do man

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      oh that might be a tough one...so you have a gen 3 block? where's your crank sensor and reluctor wheel tooth count? www.michiganmotorsports.com/single-bolt-timing-cam-gear-sprocket-replaces-ls3-12591689-1-bolt-58-tooth-reluctor-wheel/

  • @edwizard62
    @edwizard62 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Looks clean. Would have been nice to hear it run.

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      thanks Ed, dyno day - th-cam.com/video/uGuDK6nHjMc/w-d-xo.html

  • @kevinmarshall9001
    @kevinmarshall9001 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    What power steering pump is that? Mine is different and hits my steering box

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hey Bob, i pulled this out of a 98-03ish tahoe from the local junk yard and it fit ok for me. My understanding is that they have 2 different size pulleys the 5" and 6" pulley, unfortunately i dont have any part numbers for those

  • @guesswhomartin9249
    @guesswhomartin9249 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I guest my question is gonna be: What did you do with that big socket wrench ? What were you turning to make the heads go up and down. You didn't show that. Other than that, good video

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      thanks, i just used that large socket and a breaker bar to bar the engine over, using the crank bolt. with the heads off everything rotates freely.

    • @guesswhomartin9249
      @guesswhomartin9249 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@av8bud I have no idea what you're saying.

  • @joesixpack8305
    @joesixpack8305 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Do a search for spring compressor and the videos do a horrible job showing that inner-spring compressor. Come to a ball joint video and get a much better demonstration of that spring compressor. Thanks, dude!

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      happy to help Joe!

  • @cesarcastaneda6105
    @cesarcastaneda6105 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice elco man I have an 84 I’m in a need of a new suspension as well man 😂 damn thing feels like a boat.

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      hey, coil overs are a good place to start...its like night and day, car feels like anything you'd buy new off a lot today...

  • @elcaminodraco
    @elcaminodraco 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Does the vehicle need to be off the ground for this installation?

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      it certainly helps yes... i had it on jack stands under the frame rails, and had to adjust my large jack under the differential periodically to increase and reduce load on the suspension to loosen and tighten most of the bolts...id suggest playing around with it to see how it moves around for you.

  • @darrenturner9406
    @darrenturner9406 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great tool if your replacing ball joint.not so good if your just disassembling.this tool will chew up the rubber gaitor on ball joint.as this guy as just shown you

  • @debbiebowling7931
    @debbiebowling7931 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Please explain the small brass fitting on top of the water pump?

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      hi Debbie, that's the temp switch going to the relay to turn on the electric fan.

  • @John-ze4qy
    @John-ze4qy 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Intank fuel pump with a return would have solved vapor lock,and got rid of the ugly wrap

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      yea i did all the wrapping myself, i had a shop add a spacer recently which seemed to help some. Ultimately yea ill probably go with a return setup. i may move the pump to the tank but havent decided...i think the best/easiest solution would be to not use headers or wrap them to reduce a lot of the heat soak

  • @John-ze4qy
    @John-ze4qy 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Did a shop do it all,how much?

  • @ratchetrainz5033
    @ratchetrainz5033 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Man im done with aftermarket headers im tired of the extra heat, changing spark plugs is hell, and other parts get heat soaked....stock is all i like now

    • @av8bud
      @av8bud 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      agreed, after this id probably stay with manifolds and/or try wrapping them next time...