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luke31699
เข้าร่วมเมื่อ 4 ธ.ค. 2008
Rugby League vs Union- The Game That Got Away pt 2
Filmmaker Roger Mills authored this documentary in 1969 and managed to capture the spirit of rugby league in the north of England. Mills tells the story from his own perspective, as a middle-class rugby union-playing southerner who was taught nothing of the game at school and who never knew that far off in the 'cloth-capped' north men took money for a very different type of rugger.
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Rugby League vs Union- The Game That Got Away pt 1
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Filmmaker Roger Mills authored this documentary in 1969 and managed to capture the spirit of rugby league in the north of England. Mills tells the story from his own perspective, as a middle-class rugby union-playing southerner who was taught nothing of the game at school and who never knew that far off in the 'cloth-capped' north men took money for a very different type of rugger. The film is ...
Thank you for sharing this. Much appreciated.
Sitting on the sideline when your 6 years old. These blokes were giants. th-cam.com/video/qZVMLc11J1Q/w-d-xo.html
I loved this from start to finish! Thanks for posting. What a different time it was (oranges for half time, coach leading the team in jogging on the spot!).
When did RL really become fully professional? That's a question that can be answered by simply stating that for decades it was semi-professional and players had day jobs. RU should have set up the same damn thing. Seeing an interview of Guscott and Carling recently on this site, the only thing they really wanted was to get paid for endorsement of products, advertising and the like, not paid to play.
It became fully professional when Super League came around in both countries. Wigan became fully professional around like 1989 because the club had enough money to reach that full potential.
Although rucking is a far more controlled thing now...seems league and even american football saw that the breakdown in early union was just broken and play needed to restart clean. Hence play the ball or the snap
Rugby has done itself no favours over the last 100 or so years, its a tragedy?
I've heard some rubbish in my time, but this is special! As the son of a rugby union player, who came from the working class, left school at 14 to become a carpenter on abuilding site, and yet earning 19 caps for his country, I have listened to the stories. He chose to play a game he loved and could not be persuaded. In spite of any financial losses he certaibnly incurred when playing.
Vaughan Thomas. Just done a paving job for him. In his 70s now
I played Rugby Union at school, the most ridiculous aspects for me were shoeing and scrummaging as a front rower.
Idc what anyone has to say about me. I love both Union and League. I don't understand why fans have throw such a huge fuss about which is better. No one is better. Why? Because it all comes down to prefrence and what you enjoy.
Those who throw hate don't take the time to study both games. You love both because you're asking why he was penalized in the ruck or why a one on one strip was legal and it's people like you that both need.
It’s good to see that Rugby League now *is* a woman’s sport also.
It's strange how this upper v lower class dichotomy existed between rugby league and union in UK and Aus. Here in South Africa was just rugby union that was played by everybody in public or private schools.
My grandfather played RL between the wars under an assumed name as he would have been banned from various other athletic events he competed in at the time had they found out.
I always admire the areas that don't have football as the most popular sport. Places such as Castleford, Wigan, Featherstone etc etc Rugby League, and small pockets of East London, Bethnal Green, Canning Town where boxing is the main sport. How refreshing!
all those places you mention there are more soccer players than league
Can you imagine if the Welsh clubs joined us in 1895.
At 9.30 in clip were they talking about JPR Williams ?
I can't be the only one that hears similarities in Kenneth Branagh's voice and the narrator of this documentary.
thanks for this vid, . May i ask where do u think u will go when u die u dont have to answer if u dont want to?
Fantastic video . Amazing !!!
The nazis banned RL in France bcoz it was associated with the working class bit like over here!!!
The Nazis banned league because its shite.
League was banned in France by the collaborationist Vichy government at the behest of the french Rfu.
What an amazing piece of social history. It's surprising when you think about it that Wales didn't also become a league stronghold back when Union was amateur.
Wales almost did.The only thing that stopped it was the RFU agreeing to turn a blind eye to the WRU and welsh clubs giving their players "boot money".
@stevvvvveperryinteresting. In Australia there were a few unofficially getting payed to play. David Campese had huge offers from league in the 80s but Union managed to keep him for the 'love of the game'
@@PossumMagic99 I always thought that Campese came from a league background but his lack of tackling ability made him a liability in the 13 man code so he opted for union. True though, he even admitted himself that he was union's first millionaire.
@thurmanmerman2720 yes he was a poor defender. I think if he had accepted Saints offer when Roy Masters was coach they could have fixed it up.
I grew up in a small country town in Australia. A lot of us would play Rugby on Saturday and League on Sunday, in the under 16's grade. I end up making it to NZ in the under 17 grade in Rugby. I enjoyed both codes equally and although they're played differently I found that some parts of each code would help me be a better player in the other. It''s a pity there is divide. And most of the division is along the lines of wealth. In League you would get people of all backgrounds, rich and poor. But Union was seen as a wealthy mans game. When i toured NZ, my cousin, myself and one other kid were the only ones that didn't come from a private boarding school.
Differences as listed. No1 "Wing forwards" are not the spoilers of any thing. No2. You obviously have never attended a union match any where else except where your toffee nosed accent is the norm. No3. You should move out of the chinless tools area No4. More movement in League?? Five tackles and then kick. each tackle results in a stoppage to play the ball with a chicken scratch. No5 . Sorry, your claims are so one eyed and wrong that I had to quit watching. Rubbish content, stupid claims, just plain annoying.
Calm down grumpy, this was made in 1968. The blokes probably long dead. Learn some history, I would say for those times when union was the amateur establishment game the comments were completely fair. I grew up in Sydney and when I was young Union was only played by the private school crowd. The game itself was all about getting good field position then slotting over a field goal or penalty. It's a different game today.
What is funny about this is, I had subtitles on, haha, it didn't like Welsh speaking english much.................haha
my grandad played for the featherstone rovers, keith bell
Love both codes but must admit that rugby is much more entertaining
Desmond Esera That makes no sense.
The greatest rugby documentary of all time...the featherstone coach a true hero....what a man....
"fluid-er" Nice
The class system will never die in Great Britain.No where else,just here.That will always be our problem.Jim.Liverpool.
Rugby union .........boring boring boring 😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴
Mungo League 5 tackles, kick ball 😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴
10:35 "Always have a cigar when we win" Just imagine that being said now!
Great documentary
They're both fine codes and brilliant in their own unique ways and for their individual nuances. I don't see why so many of you feel you have to be so partizan as to love one and hate the other.
A lot of it is down to the way the RFU and all the clubs disrespected RL and ostracised ts players and anything else connected to RL. Even going down to train with a RL team could get you banned from playing or even entering into a union ground BITD. Also the hypocrisy, even in the 60s certain players were getting back handers to turn out and this continued all the way through to the 90s when RU eventually went 'professional' despite them already paying players openly for decades. Yet used the professional aspect to denegrate RL at every avenue, not just the hierachy at the RFU but the fans too. Also RU was very much a closed shop and particularly racist, RL has always taken in players from any continent and of any skin colour. Clive Sullivan being the first man of colour to captain a UK national team. The French RL had all their assets taken away from them at the beginning of WWII (it was the more popular code in france at the time) and was mostly down to the French RU who were collaborators with the Vichy French (this is documented), it basically destroyed RL as a sport in France and all the asserts were stolen by the French RU. Even last year the International RU board ignored one of its representative as head of RU in the UAE who lied (& very likely bribed the police) to arrest a RL president to prevent him running a competing league that had already being going on for several years. heads at RU did squat to step in, all because RL got popular and got sponsorship in an upcoming country. same old. yeah, there's loads of bad blood, some of it will never be forgiven by those of us in RL circles. I've played both, mostly league.
Exactly!!!
@MANCHESTER UNITED What on earth has football got to do with the comments section of a rugby league production?
@@ynotnilknarf39 "Also RU was very much a closed shop and particularly racist, RL has always taken in players from any continent and of any skin colour." I have been watching a lot of old RL replays and documentaries on here recently. There were reports of monkey chants against black players in the late 80s at Headingley. Matthew Ridge talking with Snoz in the Manly changing room saying he had been called a "black bastard" by an opposing player. THere are other examples.
@@homeone4054 We're talking about the sport not the fans, RL was open to people of all races whereas RU was not, RL gave opportunities, if you were good enough you got in and hence why a person of colour was captain of a British sporting team in the 70s, before that a black person (Roy Francis) was coach of the national RL team, has soccer or rugby union being broad enough to be able to have offered that to men (or women) of colour? Maybe later but RL was decades ahead of union in that respect. Also maybe you're ignoring the chants/anthems at 'twickers', black slavery song ring a bell?
Who'd have thought Southerners could be so snobbish to the working class.....
Live Forever you do know you get working class southerners also? aswell as high class northerners
Wire2904 most of the south is working class.
Spoken like a true peasant.
Southern working class likes Rugby? Most of the ones I know are one eyed football zealots,
Mungoball.... 5 tackles, kick ball, repeat 😴😴😴😴
and don't get started on the scrums rofl
Yeah how good are Union scrums. Take about twenty minutes each.
About 5 tackles happen in a game of union. The rest consists of fat blokes having a rest before they collapse another scrum.
Kick, clap, repeat 💤💤💤💤💤💤
Lol you dumb mungo’s disrespecting rugby scrums (real scrums).... yet mungo scrums are a complete joke 😂.
The lad who 'can't kick' is Vince Farrar, started out as hooker then eventually went into the front row. After 300 appearances for Featherstone he went to Hull FC in '77 to help rejuvenate them and was club captain for two years there when he gained his only GB cap. Had a spell in Australia with Cronulla. Finished his career at sheffield.
What a magnificent film. Here in NZ many of us wish UK league got more attention from our media. Although old, this film really sums up its charm.
My father said to me 'if you go to watch Fev you'll see two queues. Join the short queue, the long one's for the chippie'.
Reading the comments further down the line. There is quite a lot of misinformation concerning Union players playing League and being banned from returning back to Union on the UK. Utter rubbish!! Any Union player trying out playing League was given the moniker of "A.N. Other" on the match programme so he would not be banned from playing Union if League was not for him. League clubs were in the minority, still are in the UK. They never held the power to stop a player going back to play Union if they so wished! Some moron summised that Widnes stopped Jonathon Davies and Martin Offiah going back to play RU. Did they fuck!! A ban was automatically put in place by the hierarchy at Twickenham for any RU player who went over to League. Also to note, any Union player who wished to play League at an amateur level, if found out was banned from playing for any Rugby Union Club respectively! It was known as an apartheid in sport! A Union player could be seen to play football, be a jockey, snooker player, boxer, whatever and get paid for it! He would not be admonished because he was not being paid to play Union! (Utter shite and hypocrisy on the Grandest scale, Union players at first team and international level had been paid cash sums by Union clubs since at least the 60's). But if they were seen to play that Bastard Northern game of League then they were ostracised and banned for life!! I myself played Union on the Saturday afternoon, on the Sunday afternoon I played League. I never earned a single coin from playing League, it was for an amateur outfit. But playing for the Union side in cup matches, if we won we got paid £50! Wow big bucks!! But we got paid!! If those stuck up cunts at Twickers found out I was playing that Northern bastard game, I would've been banned from playing Union! This is the primary reason in the UK that League players and fans look down on Union! Nothing to do with Union fans or the players, it's the people in charge of the game and their blinkered attitude that still exists in the likes of that wanker Rob Andrew!! Rant over!!
Back in the old days, RU players highly likely got paid secretly especially in countries like France. They just didn't told anybody, and David Campese was a millionaire back in '91.
A Northern Soul, speaking as one who played both codes I can guarantee you that even after signing professional forms for a league club and being paid for a year or two , a player still played Union if he wanted.
A Northern Soul your last 4 words before "rant over" summed up Union up until 1995...or possibly later
Da Undaground Mane You mean they just didn't pay any tax on it! Everyone knew about it...
I'm doing a research report examining the pathway of rugby union to professionalism and came across this documentary, It's fantastic! So genuine
How did you define 'professionalism'? Was that the amount of time dedicated to training, whether it was the sole job or was it based on being paid, just curious? Given that Rugby Union have been paying their players for over half a century at least (discretely of course) you could say that the RFU instigated professionalism far sooner than they would ever admit.
And look at the trouble union went through in becoming 'professional' over night. I'm looking at things from an American point of view, but many decades ago, and for a number of decades before that, there were 'semi-pro' teams that basically paid players little for playing, many actually being 'company' teams, in various sports, particularly basketball. These teams were in the Amateur Athletic Union, by the way. Phillips 66 had one of the best basketball teams in the nation, an oil firm. They did beat some NBA teams at times. Unfortunately union took its amateurism way too seriously way back when. Semi-professionalism should have been allowed years ago. No one would have quit their day job. And that 'discrete' pay you refer to wasn't much. A few pounds stuck in boots before a match could hardly be called professionalism. In 1995 union should have designated only those on national squads as professionals, and paid them as such. Clubs and provincial sides should have had limits on them so that players could not become full pros, but semi-pros, unless picked for those international squads and games. I don't think professionalism in union has made the game any better.
@@ynotnilknarf39 Why do league fans have this obsession with making up an assumption that union players were paid? ahhaahahh
@@gus-qj2mp Why do some people get triggered when facts are exposed? What is it that you fear, shame or something else?
@@ynotnilknarf39 What am I exactly triggered by? If you have evidence that makes it facts and not an opinion im all ears just send through the link showing that the RFU was paying players a wage.
Terrortorn your comments show you know nothing about rugby union as a sport. Fat lads aye it's kinda funny you say that because they're probably ten times fitter and faster than a keyboard warrior like you. If the work rate and fitness in union is so shit then why do so many players get injured, yes rugby league's a brutal game but still unions a game you will never understand so stop hating on it
if league is so great how come everyone in the world dont play it , and if it is the are great sport how come its never made the Olympic game rugby has!!!! don't talk about great .... I bet most of you have play both codes or most positions....
I play union for my club and league for school league is much better to watch IMO it is simple yes but I think that the simplicity Is what made is quick and fast flowing
There used to be so much snobbery about the League game. Now players from both codes can interchange. League is a more skilful game in terms of ball passing - just look how many of current England backs are ex- league or have league background. League forwards cannot readily adapt to Union because essence of League game is speed by all players. Union forwrads are trained to push and shove. - speed is not important, although some union forwards do have speed - these are the exceptions and are mostly internationals
League is not as popular because it bearley left English shores as other countries preferred Union (Excluding Australia).
Funny how dumb mungo league supporters blame rugby for preventing league to grow. League will never grow because it’s repetitive, predictable, boring rubbish.
Listen at 5:23....Union waged its war against rugby league through its own by-laws and used its power base via private schools and the upper class connections around the world to promote the game.
5 tackles kick repeat...yawn zzzzzz...the only sport in the world that makes the defense stand back 10 metres to make it simpler and more of a spectator sport. Heres an idea, how about we get rid of every perceivable contest for the ball and call it Rugby league. Such a simplifuied bastardisation of a great game , for those that dont like to think too much.
Excellent analysis of mungoball.
I love watching repeat scrums - the essence of the union game .....yawn zzzzzz
@@conn0rth Comes down to what you prefer. More ball in hand action, or a game of sub-games where individual battles for dominance in various aspects of the game shape how the overall game plays out. I prefer the latter. But it's subjective. I just prefer the tactical variety of union over the specialised emphasis of line breaking and tackling in league.
I like the history of rugby league but don't like how much less physical it is to union.
Hyaku it's more physical and faster
Hts Network it is faster but not more physical. i played league and union semi professionally for years and union is way more physcial
harry mcmillan fairs mate but there are lot bigger hits in leuage
Hts Network yeah the hits are bigger in league I agree. That dosent make it more physcial. Nothing is more phsycial then hitting a ruck, driving a maul. both good sports
harry mcmillan I agree mate 👍
league was way better than union that idiot going on about scrums in league but at least get trys in league
Cause that's all there is in league, every other contest for the ball has been eliminated...dummies game
+James Hingley Scrums in Union take forever. Collapse reset, collapse reset until the ref awards a penalty nobody can understand. There is no point to them as a strike against the head is virtually unknown today, so the team putting the ball in always retains possession. In order to 'contest' these scrums the props have to weigh anything upwards of 19 stone which really leads to the fast skillful game that is rugger'
I like the scrum, a test of brawn and brain.
Would rather see awesome tries, better footwork. Rather then see pick n drive, kick, pick n drive. About 10 goals from 40 out
+Russell Fletcher better than 5 tackles, kick ball, repeat lol.
It's like a different world. Would a League chairman turn up in a Rolls Royce now?
Yes
Fuck'n commentators fuck up .... talk too the all blacks the greatest team in the world in 100 years also reflects how great union is ...and how hard it is, DID YOU KNOW THAT THE SCRUM IN UNION IS THE MOST Scaryest moment in sport, union is the grandfather of all contact sport lol
yep and lots of former All Blacks that couldn't get into an NRL squad
Aide Vresme are you high?? its the other way around you tool. guys like moimoi and matulino who were club rugby players went and got test caps and are top league players in the nrl for their clubs. or old out of shape ex-union players like marc ellis, john timu john kirwan walking into the nz team. get your facts right pal
+Aide Vresme thats because no All Black wold wanna be seen dead playing that simple code. ps how many Junior All Blacks are in the NRL today? do some research, you might be surprised
Union players think tackle is something one buys at a fish shop
+Aide Vresme your stupid comments just got you owned mate. you literally couldn't name an all black (outside of the tight 5) that wouldn't make an nrl team. on the other hand that crap we have been served up by kiwis and england the last 2 weeks none of them wd have a hope in hell of crossing over. and funny you talk of defence given that league guys have probably the worst reads in the game. no trust at all in their team mates to make one on one tackles so they get beaten by simple 2nd man plays and the like. pathetic really
when did they make the scrums in league uncontested???
I believe in the early 80s.
league is way better sport even though i grew up playing union, league wasn't played where i am from, but we used to get it on tv... union at the moment is a bastardized version of league now anyway...
+Kevin Cronin nothing is contested in league, you have to be a bunch of chumos not to make 40-50 metres per set of 6 as they make the defense stand back 10 metres...and go wow...its a free running open game lol Scrums are a joke, interchange is a joke, and the TMO's are a joke...the game is as exciting as a game of checkers...give me chess any day
Everything in league is uncontested lol
The scrums can be contested there's no rule against it, it's just quicker
I like watching people score tries instead of kicking penalty goals for 80 minutes
Plenty of tries in rugby as well mate. All Blacks score some of the best tries I've seen in both codes.
Im a union fan to but the modern game you see alot more penalty goals in union than league. If the all blacks get a penalty inside the opponents 22 95% of a chance they'll take a penalty goal than a try
+krugers elmstreet A famous Australian loose forward when asked to define rugby union said 'that's the game where the crowd handles the ball more than the players.'
+krugers elmstreet league is repetitive and predictable. 5 tackles, kick ball, repeat 😴😴😴😴. I can see why no other country outside of Australia couldn't care less about the sport.
Isn't every sport in the the world a bit repetitive and predictable. Football is people taking dives and trying to attack from there own half and has low scoring. Basketball is 24 seconds to make a basket go other way. Baseball watch a pitcher pitch once in minute to somebody to hit it at someone or in the sky to be catched. Hockey 5 pass combo and tackle and try to shoot the puck at a goalie 10 times in a period. American football watch a team try to advance 10 yards and punt the ball on 4th. Union watch scrums collapsing and penalty kicks taken with few try's and in League watch 5 tackles kick & repeat. And on my sport of Finish baseball which is a much more dynamic and more exiting than many sports around, is only played in Finland and watching it on TV is shit. Of all the sports there are I hate football because for me its boring, someone else finds it intresting... Unfortunately that seems to count the entire planet...
Gorgeous documentary. Rugby league belongs to the north, it's OUR game, it is us.
A game for peasants.