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When Fletcher said - "the truth is, I never really had a Charlie Parker." I think he by saying that he was trying to hurt Andrew. Andrew thought of himself as someone who is meant for greatness, and Fletcher knows that. I wish right after Fletcher says that, there was a reaction shot of Andrew, which reflected his pain upon hearing those words.

In life we have god and the devil. If you don’t pick god to be your villain, then the devil is your caretaker

This movie is just a celebration of Protestant Work Ethic bullshit. Reminds me of every dumbass on every loading dock and mailroom I've been in who thinks, "I was the new guy once and took shit so my entire philosophy now is that everyone should suffer for no reason."

When Fletcher told Andrew : “I really tried “ .He should have answered : “Well… Good Job!”.

its a possibility that even though fletcher knew andrew ratted him out and still had this conversation with him, is that he truly didnt care and was still trying to push andrew, even in the final scene where he tries to humiliate him and it succesfully backfires, was to push him.

The sad music playing when Fletcher says he never really had a Charlie Parker 👌

“The perfect is the enemy of the good enough.” -Voltaire

There was a story in Vulture's exposé about Scott Rudin that played out remarkably similar to this scene. A former staffer said that Rudin was an abusive tyrant in the office who threw things at people when he was mad, and gave the staffer hell when he announced he was quitting. Years later the now ex-staffer runs into Rudin at an ice skating rink and Rudin was absolutely charming and affable, since he no longer had power/control over the dude. The dude was stunned and understandably enraged.

"I told you that story about how Peter Parker became Spiderman right?"

"Any fucking moron can wave his camera and take pictures at Spiderman"

Guitarist here, started taking lessons on the Chinese guitar recently via Zoom, found a remarkably good world class teacher who's constantly traveling the world performing. He told me a story about how his teacher created 118 drills, all multiple pages long of hundreds to thousands of notes per drill. Had her group of kids memorize them all, then put bags over their heads and had them play the drills blind standing behind them with a metal ruler and whacking them every time they missed 1 note. He said she was an absolute psycho, and also why he became such a world class musician. The best are often made the best because of extreme measures. Whether someone else does it for you or you're that musician who spends 16 hours a day practicing, there's probably no such thing as a best in any field who didn't get there by being extreme.

"My high school coach threw a bat at my head during practice." - Babe Ruth.

Jazz is dying because when you crawl up your own ass that far it just becomes pretentious…

Dang JK’s characters never seem to be able to apologise for their horrible actions.

3:16 because its like saying good enough. Its never good "enough" I played the violin until I suffered an accident that left me with a LOT of nerve damage in my left hand ( I had to learn how to be right handed ) and I was good, I was damn good. but not ever good "enough"

I whole heartly agree wirh fletcher in this scene. While the events after this scene, i dont fully sgree eith, i do agree with his point. If we dont push people, then what are we going to accomplish in the future? Charlie Parker became Charlie Parker because he was berated and he was made fun of. In this world, thats the best inspiration that anyone could get. But nowadays, we see people crying because they got called the wrong pronoun. People in the olden days would laugh at them. Want to know what they thought this century would look like? Flying cars, portable houses and a bunch of other cool shit. But the world got softer nuts, and now tries to be a place full of sunshine and rainbows. We can even see this in schools. Bullying became regulated so much, that you can barely see any physical bullying on school campuses. And look where that has got us. Furries, gays, animal pedos. Fletcher did nothing wrong. All his points were valid. He has done nothing wrong

Anybody who thinks Fletcher is right here is an actual dumbass

Let's just remember here that Fletcher lied about Shawn Casey's cause of death

0:12 “Yeah I did heard that” you’ve just compromised yourself for testifying against your former teacher 😂

feels like the scene kind of humanizes fletcher, and gives reason to why he's so harsh on his students

"The truth is I..... never really had a Charlie Parker" damn, he did sean casey dirty.

The irony in the two lines: “The most harmful words in the English language are good job” “But at least I tried” This is such a great scene of dialogue.

Is that in the post credit?

Charlie Park would never satisfied of being Charlie Park, and Andrew's journey won't just end with being the next Charlie Parker, this is his parting gift to Andrew.

I had a boss decades ago who always said "good job" no matter how cut rate your work was, and even then I knew it was harmful.

As soon as a girl dumps you, or a family member or a friend betrays you ,you will realize that pursuing greatness was better than being a fucking nice dude.

I didn’t expect Andrew’s response question of “Isn’t there a line?” But it makes total sense and is a great question. The writing in this scene is so good.

How did neiman get in the bar if he’s only 19

Probably the most chilling little bit in the whole movie, in my opinion, is the way Fletcher just casually engages in a warm conversation with Andrew, despite their last interaction being Andrew attacking Fletcher on stage at the end of a performance. It is a chilling example of how abusers tend to overlook any sort of attack on themselves for the sake of engaging in manipulative tactics with ease.

It's wild how many people unironically think this is the message of the movie and is an honest look at why Fletcher does what he does when: - He's lied to Andrew and manipulated his feelings to come across as sympathetic multiple times by this point; - He is, in this very scene, trying to manipulate Andrew so he can get his revenge; - He's talking about why he got fired from his prestigious job as a music teacher after driving a student to kill himself "I was always trying to make the next Charlie Parker and these idiots didn't understand" is so obviously his way of defending and justifying his behavior, even to himself, when his actions throughout the movie show what he really wanted was to feel powerful and win nationally-acclaimed jazz competitions.

0:30 Fletcher lampshading his own abuse with humor or triviality - this is a common tactic among abusive personalities. Movie is great.

even andrew was probably thinking he’s gonna say mistakes, i think a lot of people did too, but the way he says “enemies” shows he has and will have no intention of apologizing especially to andrew

Fletcher heard the Parker story and made it his personality

I remember watching this with my father. He was never one to give you a cookie for doing what was expected of you. There was an uncomfortable silence before he said, "That's no way to be." I still have a strained relationship with my dad, but I know I wouldn't be who I am if he'd always told me "good job".

You know Quasimodo, predicted all of this.

Do you know the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise? Darth Sidious threw a lightsaber at his head

I kind of try to have a Fletcher point of view, I am always hard on myself to get there.

The only thing I find strange about super strict teachers and mentors in the world is that a lot of them are people who never made it big themselves. They push people beyond their limits even though they could never be pushed beyond them themselves without inevitably giving up and quitting.

Fletcher actually makes some pretty good points, but he doesn’t realise that there is a line to be crossed.

Fletcher is finally facing his own shortcomings because he has no choice. "I never had a 'Charlie Parker". The fact of the matter is that Fletcher was never a Joe Jones. He simply mind fked himself into thinking he could deploy the same storied method to produce a legend that he could take credit for. It never worked because Joe Jones' rage and frustration was genuine and in the moment. Fletcher's artificial version was just a persona and on 24/7.

gang gang

This scene seems like the perfect reason he was casted as Omni man he is so manipulative in this scene

the crazy thing to me about fletcher defenders is that they dont seem to understand how wrong he was about why jazz is "dying", and what his interpretation says about his character. first off, the "death" of jazz is a result of musical evolution. jazz has african american roots, and was a cultural voice until eventually genres like rap replaced it. jazz simply stopped being the language of the times. humanity shifted its needs. but fletcher is out of touch with humanity. his claim that no one being disciplined is causing the death of jazz is not only cynical and incorrect, but incredibly self absorbed. fletcher can only see the world through his own distorted lens, where aggression and abuse creates great art. were the jazz musicians of old widely subjected to this treatment, particularly when the genre began? of course not. jazz in and of itself is about freedom of expression and creativity. musicians were self taught and collaborative. passionate. which wraps back around to my original point, that if a genre is needed, it will appear with passionate contributors, and if not, then it won't.

Honestly I kinda agree with him saying that saying good job can be pretty Harmful. There are times where a person just needs to do better. The problem I have with his methods is he really doesn’t lay off people and expects them to be perfect all the time. Have some grace and remind people to take a step back and refresh their brains

"that's a good laugh, right?" that's fletcher for "i'm gonna ruin your entire career you fucking smartass."

Here's how I view this scene. Terence Fletcher is the epitome of the "Understandable motive, unreasonable methods" villain. In other words, you can understand what they want to do, but how they want to do it is wrong. Fletcher believes that in order to become a great musician, you need someone to push you to be great. But, there's a clear difference between pushing someone to be great and just being a complete asshole. He thinks that if you are a verbally and emotionally abusive jerk who just tells people they're worthless, that'll push them to be better, but as we saw with Sean Casey, not everyone will see it like that. Sean died because of Fletcher being an asshole. Also, believing that the next great musician will "never be discouraged" just doesn’t make sense to me. Everyone gets discouraged at some point. Andrew tries to call out the flaws in his ideology, but Fletcher refuses to believe he could be wrong. To sum it up, this is a perfect scene to show how the psyche of a villain can be fascinating and haunting.

It's a exciting movie. The drummer good some time others he so bad ge get replaced by someone. Miles teller character gets in wreck and Still show up to the event like nothing happened.. the other guy who the teacher is so mental abusive.

Fletcher represents anyone that does a great job at being a good person. The greatest of one they created makes them forget the thousands they destroyed to get there.

We all knew teachers like this man. So much passion for teaching, so little understanding of pedagogy ;)

Imagine going through all this obsession and shit for… jazz drumming. Everyone got their something but being the best jazz drummer of all time just means youre inflicting more jazz on the world.