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@@brianlindgren3490 yeah it's a great place to start but depends what shoe you're running in nos? Just remember to slowly work into lower stack shoes to avoid injury.

@barefootrunreview definitely right now my main work horse is a Clifton 9 with a 5mm stack.

@brianlindgren3490 ok that makes sense. Because the Clifton is high stack and a small drop, you could try the Torin if you want to run further in them. Or this Escalante if you're happy with building slower and rotating with your current Clifton.

@@barefootrunreview thanks for the Help! I'll do some digging maybe I'll try Torin and see how it goes and the maybe try bringing both into the mix. I'd like to try more minimalist but I also want to move slow. Can't afford an injury. Was thinking of starting with easy recovery runs once a week and maybe escalate it to more.

@@barefootrunreview just to give some feedback on your recommendation. I went with Escalante 4, found a deal on them. Wore them around a few days to get use to them and today did first run in them, 7km recovery after yesterday's 2 Mile Repeats hard session. (Also for a few weeks upped my foot and calf strength and mobility exercises). I immediately noticed better running economy, showcased by my lower Heartrate at recovery pace than usual. Definitely my legs were fatigued more by the end of the 7km and my feet and calves feel like they got a bit extra of a workout but nothing negative to say! Great shoes, and the foam is a dream, I almost feel like I'm still in my hokas, lol. Will slowly Continue to incorporate in my running rotation. Definitely foreseeing some real benefits here. Who knows if it continues to amaze me I might throw a more barefoot style into the mix in the summer. Thanks again!

Oh that's a shame. I can see why there too short though. I'm not sure it's worth the toe bruising :( I'm not against drop in a shoe if it's the tool that helps you achieve what you want to achieve. If the best shoe for you race is 5mm, then go for it. Just make sure you get some miles in it before hand. Otherwise, if there's a zero drop alternative, and you're already habituated to zero drop, I would definitely advise you stick with that.

@ yeah thanks for the update. I do haven’t listed on eBay and try to sell them and then maybe look for the newer ones or it might be warm enough weather at that point where I can where I mostly use my Luna sandals with megagrip.

I've seen mixed reviews. From what I could see the materials and build were solid. But this reddit thread says different. www.reddit.com/r/trailrunning/comments/1cochh8/altra_timp_5_100_mile_review/ Although, others mention they get much longer on the same thread, so it's hard to say. Sorry I can't help further.

True, if you're coming fomr +25mm I could understand that. But anyone in a Lone Peak, Superior, Escalante, even a Torin should be good.

Any changes in footwear will change your gate. High, low, soft, firm, super shoe, minimal shoes, or even a material change. The important this is how your body can withstand and adapt to these changes. I would like to think that your background in minimal shoes would help you withstand some of these changes, but that would be my biased opinion. If the best choice of shoe for the race is 5mm, then that's the right choice. i.e. it offers the protection level you need, it fits well, and even if it's the shoe you have in hand right now. If you're still choosing, and you have a choice between a 0mm and a 5mm, and you've done all your training in 0mm, I'd push you towards the 0mm. Your history tells you that this is the safest choice for you. I would only change if the alternative offers you something you can't get elsewhere. Long answer, but I hope it helps! :)

Oh yeah. You see this with different barefoot shoe designs. In an effort to better align with the contours of the heel, some manufacturers round the outsole of the heel. Others square it off creating a stability-like feature in the shoe. Which one you're comfortable with depends on your goals and biomechanics. And I think you're right in saying that bevel is more pronounced due to the larger lugs. Logically that makes sense. I believe the Calver 2 is exactly the same (mine are still in the post).

@@barefootrunreview Thanks for the reply, does the Feldom have the same design?

Yes, just slightly less pronounced because the lug depth is a few mm less.

Yeah, that would be my advice. Hope you like them!

Gotta meet them where they're at I suppose.

Completely agree. On the one hand I understand why they're trying to capture more of the market with these shoes. But on the other hand, it flies completely against the philosophy of the company. 🤷‍♂️

Sadly it doesn't compete with any of the Vibram outsoles. It still is a little slippy on wet rock. And to be honest, most rubbers are poor on wet rock because they need to optimize for durability. I would rate this rubber better than Xero Shoes, and Vivobarefoot outsoles, but not at the level of the Vibram outsoles.

From some very naive measurements, yes it does include the insole, but that said I don't think removing the insole will make it feel more minimal. This shoe is quite stiff due to the hard rock plate through it. So even if you shave a few mm off the stack height, if you're wanting that minimal feeling, I'd look else where. Even the Superior feels more minimal than this due to the flexibility. I've noticed you've seen my Freet Calver review. That would have been my suggestion. :)

Freet Calver EU43, and the Mesa Trail II I've got EU42. Apparently freet have adjusted the sizing for the Calver 2 to be a little longer. So personally I would go for EU42 in the Calver 2 now. Same sizing as the Mesa Trail II

Sadly, no shoes do that well on icy surfaces. If there's lots of ice and snow, your best bet is microspikes. But if it's only a little ice, then trail shoes could be good as they have added texture, but when you have a sheet of ice, it won't work.

I'm glad you're enjoying them. And it's a good point about the gaiter trap bi guess you're limited to the traditional under foot strap to keep the gaiters down instead. Enjoy!

For the Mesa trail II I wear a EU42, and for the Superior 6 a EU42.5. In US sizing that ends up being the same size. So that's the best way to compare the models.

Yeah. I hear you. Having recently run in the Altra FWD Via (~260g), it's very noticeable how lighter max stack shoes can feel. As for Hoka, unless they make a toe box that's shaped more like my foot, I'll not be touching them. :)

That's awesome. If you're body and feet can handle the distance in minimal shoes, there's no need to make the switch. You've put in the effort to have shoe freedom. :)

I've see other note that the fin at the back is for traction on the downhill. I'm not sure how effective it really is though. I wouldn't say it's toe spring, as the toes sit at roughly zero-drop, but there is certainly a taper that feels like a rolling motion during the run. For sure it changes your biomechanics, but incidentally, this may be exactly what's needed long into an ultra. i.e. offload some of the stress onto other areas of the body. Personally, I'm very unlikely to use this kind of shoe, but I can see a niche argument for it's use. Have you looked at Freet shoes at all? I like to think of these as a very mildly cushioned barefoot shoe. Still super flexible, but with ~10mm stack height, depending on the model.

Oh! Are you not a fan of the tongue? You're lucky, because the Superior 7 goes back to a standard tongue.

@@barefootrunreviewthis is music to my ears! I hated the burrito style tongue.

Yeah I went a 1/2 size larger than my Escalantes Racer 2's. I think that'll be good enough for most, but it depends on your big toe splay. But considering you already went a 1/2 in your ER2's I think the 11.5 should be good.

@ thank you! I probably overdid it but I went all the way up to a size 12, altra CR thought it would fit me ok since I will be wearing thick lambs wool insoles w them. I do agree that it looks like the 11.5 would be the Goldilocks perf size but I found some very cheap brand new ones in size 12 on eBay and couldn’t pass it up 😂

@@hood4thought699 OH, that makes sense! 1/2 a size isn't a huge difference. We're only talking about perfection when we come to those minute measurements.

Oh I see you're still out of luck on the EU Xero Shoes site. No Speed Force II there. I but mine from the US site still. Do Xero Shoes tend to fit you well? If you need wider and deeper, I could suggest some Freet options, although none are as light as the Speed Force II. Merrel Vapor Glove 6 are also SUPER light, but narrower than most barefoot options.

@ Maybe ill try the new Freet shoe, when they drop on the EU site 👍

I've ended up with about 200km on my pair. I don't reach for them all that often because I'm in the trails more often than not now. All parts of the upper have held up well, no wear to be seen at all. Of course the outsole is starting to see some wear, but it's to be expected for 200km. I think I'd get them to ~7-800km before the lugs are smoothed off. And even at that point you can run them on the road, as I have been doing.

Do it! They're a pretty good shoe! I'm hoping that we continue to see designs like this, or at least offer the old styles to satisfy us oldies. :)

No it's built in and much more significant than the one used in previous superiors. I'm struggling to think of suggestions for shallow, mildly cushioned options. I think you may just have to jump between the options you have right now.

@@barefootrunreviewappreciate your reply. I removed the rock plate from the Superiors and they’re fine as a light trail shoe. I might try a more cushioned insole in my Vivo Primus Trail Soft Ground - the luggy chevron sole on those is better for mud and grass trails. Not found anything in the barefoot genre to cope with wet rock yet though! An ancient pair of Inov8s with sticky rubber soles were good, but I don’t rate any of their shoes now.

@@anniwilson2534 I'm with you!

Are you saying these run short compared to current models? I use the Lone Peak 7 in US 10.5; should I get these in US 11?

Yeah I would still opt for a the Superior for a more minimal feeling from Altra. It sounds counter intuitive because of the relative stack heights, but the Superior is more flexible making it feel more "barefoot". I would suggest looking at the Freet Feldom if your feet aren't too narrow or shallow. I've found they're mildly cushioned underfoot, but still very flexible due to the outsole design. You could even add a thicker insole as I did to provide a little more cushion and less depth in the shoe.

Maybe try the Trail Glove from Merrell.

:) tough one to answer. I've never noticed any squeaking, but I guess they would on a basketball court or surfaces that are similar.

It really depends on the depth and width of your feet, especially through the midfoot. But Yeah theyll likely work. I'd say US 9 or 9.5 would have been my guess.

That sounds like a balanced approach. You'll have to keep me updated. I agree that running in cushioned shoes again does feel strange, it's not something I feel hugely comfortable with. But at the same time, the different training stimulus is likely a good thing as long as you don't over do it. Just take things slowly, and you'll be able get to the distance you'd like to hit.

What's a compromise here? I assume you heard towards the end of the video, the earbud microphone failed, and I would subjectively the audio is worse during that section? But you still believe the audio during the first half of the video is bad? As you likely know, investing in a better audio set up is costly. I make zero money from TH-cam right now, thus investing in the gear is lower on the priority list. For now I'm focusing on the content with the hope that a different approach on shoe reviews (fit over function), is enough to leave people satisfied, regardless of the slightly reduced audio quality. What do you think? Consider that?

@@barefootrunreview Nothing wrong with the sound. Trust me you will find great peace in your TH-cam journey if you start ignoring/deleting/blocking idiots like that guy. See he never replied. They don't give a shit they're just random trolls/idiots/kids.

Great! I'm glad it helped! It's a different shoe for sure, but for the right conditions, it's a great option!

I replied to your other comment on the escalante video. Hopefully that helps! thanks

Oh. You preempted my Lems response! :) Bahe Revive is another option, but it could be on the pricey end for you. I saw you made a comment on the Superior video too, so maybe trail shoe options would work for you? Freet do the Feldom, which is 11.5mm out the box, but if you switch out the insoles for some thicker, you could get them to ~15mm. They're already a deep shoe, so having a thicker insole is completely possible. Xero Shoes Scrambler Low is also another one with a higher stack height, considering is a more "minimal" shoe. Maybe these could work?

Thanks for sharing your experience! There's a lot of detail here I'm sure others can benefit from. For the little toe room, while I don't think it's the most square little toe taper on the market, it's also better than most. Usually, a half-size large can help these issues, too, so it could be worth a try. And yes, the form is denser and stiffer than others on the market. I would argue this allows for more ground feel, as "squishiness" gives a false sense of softness, whereas firmness transfers much more of the energy directly through to the sensory input of the foot. But that aside, the stiffness could give you some mechanical difficulty as it pushes more load through different areas. If you'd want to transition into something like this again, it would have to be slowly and methodically to build resilience in those stressed areas. In the end, it's like any shoe. It's just a tool, and if it suits your requirements or does a job well, great! Otherwise, there are always more options to try. :)

@@SpikeToy28 right now I've only run roughly 50km in them. And instead, I've actually started using them casually. They're the right level of minimal and super comfortable, which makes me reach for them often. But as summer is coming around down here, I'm in sandals more. The upper on these are heavyweight and are pretty hot in this weather. So are they worth it? Not right now, unless you're really struggling to find a shoe that fits you perfectly. From my experience these are just a minor upgrade from other Vivo knit options. I hope that helps!

@@luiseduardocardosoreck616 sorry. I'm really not sure about the Brazilian market.

@@EkaterinaTimP it really depends on you. Have you run in zero drop shoes before? If so, which ones? And if not, it's worth working your way into something like this shoe, by rotating into your running slowly. Let me know and I can certainly help further!

@ I use vivo Primus lite for training and all day city walks and I love them, I even do short runs in them, but for longer than 20 minutes I need to be on grass or soil. For a race I’d definitely be on a road, so I won’t be using them. I’ve not run more than 5k yet, that’s why I don’t know how it will feel in the current shoes I have. I run on balls of my feet so the drop doesn’t really matter. Thank you so much for your time and sharing experience 🙏🏼

@EkaterinaTimP oh nice. Sounds like you'll be great with them then. I'd use the Racers and also sprinkle in short sessions with your vivos to keep the barefoot training going. Just build up slowly.

@@barefootrunreviewsounds great! I like that ) thank you 😊

Go to know! I'm always switching between sizes with Altra models. Although I think most will struggle to go down in size with the Superior due to the shallow depth.

@@barefootrunreviewI have the Superior 5 and I went half a size up, not because of foot volume as mine is low, but I needed more toe space at the end of the shoe. If you’ve tried the 5 does the 6 feel the same in terms of sizing to you?

@@anniwilson2534 Yeah I've run in both models. The 6 is just a tiny bit longer than the 5. But that extra length is required to move the toes away from the tougher tap cap found on the 6. I'd suggest sticking with the same size as you had in the 5's.

@@radepicsmasheraj great! Did you decide to buy, or pass?

@barefootrunreview I'm going to pass on these since I'm looking for more of an all-around type of shoe; I'm leaning towards Trail options in general since they just seem more versatile, but these look to have a little more cushion and less flexibility than I'd like, and I would also probably run into the issue of the mid-foot not being as wide. I did see your review of the Freet Feldom, so those are on my shortlist as of now. For context, I've worn a pair of Whitin Canvas for around a year now, so I'm looking for something with a slightly wider toe-box on the pinky side, and a sole with better grip.

5000 miles are impossible. That's just marketing BS. Own and love many Xero Shoes myself. After about 900 km (good mix of road and trails) the sole is done and holes start to occur.

So good to hear! Enjoy the ground! 😜

Ha! Let me know how bouncy you become!

Glad to hear you know my stance. 😅 I did like the ST5, but the arch bugged me way too much. Theoretically, any supportive design will mitigate foot strengthening benefits. Even cushion. Even rubber! But arch support is that one step too far in my opinion. I like your thinking of rotating between shoes though, that way your body doesn't get too habituated to one shoe and running pattern. You could go for the racer, but you could also go more minimal, and start very slowly with them to increase the foot strengthening gains. First starting with walk/everyday use.

@@EnigmaticAnomaly no where near 1500 miles. La sportiva is known for making durable shoes. That said I wouldn't be able to fit into their narrow toe boxes. Altras tend to "feel" flat early on due to foam break down, but if you're willing to run past that you can get far past 500 miles. The first thing to break down will likely be the upper, where you'll break through the knit.

@@barefootrunreview thanks for the reply. I have to pairs of Provision (6 and 7), and alternate. I walk six to seven miles a day, and naturally I'm always on the lookout for something with rubber that is going to last a while. The Provision 6s I have are just over 350 miles into them, and the tread wear is already down to the foam in a few places. Better than the Asics I had (which gave up the ghost around the 250 mile mark), but still running into that designed obsolescence thing. The only compound I know that lasts a long while is the C4 Stealth Rubber or similar "sticky" rubbers. But good luck finding running shoes with that kind of tread.

That makes sense. As a do it all shoe I don't think it's perfected for any discipline. But that's what some people need. I know my hardcore lifting friend over at @thatfitfriend tends to rate the grip of these shoes, it's worth listening to his advice when choosing shoes for lifting.