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Kelly's History
Canada
เข้าร่วมเมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2019
A primarily military history channel, focused on showing how things worked or why things happened.
I'm Visiting the National Archives in London (Days 1 through 5)
I'm Visiting the National Archives in London (Days 1 through 5)
มุมมอง: 224
วีดีโอ
Whirlwind: Battle of the Ruhr 1943 - S1/E8: Failure Above the Clouds
มุมมอง 1K10 หลายเดือนก่อน
On March 5th 1943, the first raid in what would become known as the Battle of the Ruhr occurred as over 400 bombers attacked Essen, home to the massive Krupp's Works. It was the start of what RAF Bomber Command's commander, Arthur Harris, described as his "Main Offensive", which would continue until March 1944 when the bombing effort was increasingly directed at pre-invasion targets in occupied...
Whirlwind: Battle of the Ruhr 1943 - S1/E7: Back to France
มุมมอง 1Kปีที่แล้ว
On March 5th 1943, the first raid in what would become known as the Battle of the Ruhr occurred as over 400 bombers attacked Essen, home to the massive Krupp's Works. It was the start of what RAF Bomber Command's commander, Arthur Harris, described as his "Main Offensive", which would continue until March 1944 when the bombing effort was increasingly directed at pre-invasion targets in occupied...
Whirlwind: Battle of the Ruhr - S1/E6: Interlude March 13th to 22nd 1943
มุมมอง 505ปีที่แล้ว
On March 5th 1943, the first raid in what would become known as the Battle of the Ruhr occurred as over 400 bombers attacked Essen, home to the massive Krupp's Works. It was the start of what RAF Bomber Command's commander, Arthur Harris, described as his "Main Offensive", which would continue until March 1944 when the bombing effort was increasingly directed at pre-invasion targets in occupied...
Whirlwind: Battle of the Ruhr 1943 - S1/E5: Krupp's Second Blow
มุมมอง 971ปีที่แล้ว
On March 5th 1943, the first raid in what would become known as the Battle of the Ruhr occurred as over 400 bombers attacked Essen, home to the massive Krupp's Works. It was the start of what RAF Bomber Command's commander, Arthur Harris, described as his "Main Offensive", which would continue until March 1944 when the bombing effort was increasingly directed at pre-invasion targets in occupied...
Nazi Magazine writes about Night Fighters and RAF Night Bombing Raids - February 1944 (Part 2)
มุมมอง 238ปีที่แล้ว
Primary Source Monday #14 00:00 - Introduction 01:17 - Role of reconnaissance aircraft 04:42 - Searchlights and lines of flares 07:33 - Night fighter operations then and now 12:14 - Three types of battle 16:00 - Every crash must be confirmed
Nazi Magazine writes about Night Fighters and RAF Night Bombing Raids - February 1944 (Part 1)
มุมมอง 299ปีที่แล้ว
Primary Source Monday 13 00:00 - Description 01:17 - Article intro 02.28 - Brain of the Night Fighters 05:42 - Good Flying Weather in England 06:35 - Tactics of Terrorist Airmen 09:23 - Characteristics of Night Fighter Pilots 14:38 - Delayed Action Victories
Karl Dönitz Interrogation: Part 3/3 - Mine Laying, Merchant Marine, Harbor Defense, Japanese Subs
มุมมอง 358ปีที่แล้ว
Primary Source Monday #12 Video 3 (of 3) covering the interrogation done by the United States Army Air force of Grand Admiral Karl Dönitz on 7 July 1945. The questions asked covered his personal background, the operational submarine strength, production of U-boats, upgraded Type XXI and Type XXIII U-boats, and effects of bombing on production, Axis Naval Air Power, Axis Naval Forces and so on. ...
Karl Dönitz Interrogation: Part 2/3 - History of U-boat Campaign, Naval Air Force, Surface Ships
มุมมอง 919ปีที่แล้ว
Primary Source Monday #11 Video 2 (of 3) covering the interrogation done by the United States Army Air force of Grand Admiral Karl Dönitz on 7 July 1945. The questions asked covered his personal background, the operational submarine strength, production of U-boats, upgraded Type XXI and Type XXIII U-boats, and effects of bombing on production, Axis Naval Air Power, Axis Naval Forces and so on. ...
Karl Dönitz Interrogation: Part 1/3 - Personal Background and History of U-boat Campaign
มุมมอง 1.8Kปีที่แล้ว
Primary Source Monday #10 Video 1 (of 3) covering the interrogation done by the United States Army Air force of Grand Admiral Karl Dönitz on 7 July 1945. The questions asked covered his personal background, the operational submarine strength, production of U-boats, upgraded Type XXI and Type XXIII U-boats, and effects of bombing on production. 00:00 - Intro and source 00:23 - Start - Personal B...
Ira Eaker: Building The Mighty Eighth - Material, Plans, Conclusions, Recommendations (Part 3)
มุมมอง 2592 ปีที่แล้ว
Primary Source Monday #9 On December 31st, 1943, Ira Eaker passed on control of the 8th Air Force to James Doolittle, to take up command of the Allied air forces in the Mediterranean theater. Eaker had played a defining role in the creation of the 8th Air Force, laying the groundwork and building up an efficient force able to dispatch up to 700 bombers and 600 fighters by the end of his command...
Ira Eaker: Building The Mighty Eighth - Intelligence, Operations, Aircraft, Radar Bombing (Part 2)
มุมมอง 3092 ปีที่แล้ว
Ira Eaker: Building The Mighty Eighth - Intelligence, Operations, Aircraft, Radar Bombing (Part 2)
Ira Eaker: Building The Mighty Eighth - Beginning, Organization, Losses, Leadership, Morale (Part 1)
มุมมอง 3032 ปีที่แล้ว
Ira Eaker: Building The Mighty Eighth - Beginning, Organization, Losses, Leadership, Morale (Part 1)
Allied Intelligence Report on JU-88 "Mistel" and ME-163 Rocket Fighter - August 1944
มุมมอง 3292 ปีที่แล้ว
Allied Intelligence Report on JU-88 "Mistel" and ME-163 Rocket Fighter - August 1944
Whirlwind: Battle of the Ruhr 1943 - S1/E4: The City in the Valley
มุมมอง 1.6K2 ปีที่แล้ว
Whirlwind: Battle of the Ruhr 1943 - S1/E4: The City in the Valley
Whirlwind: Battle of the Ruhr 1943 - S1/E3: The Birthplace of Nazidom
มุมมอง 1.2K2 ปีที่แล้ว
Whirlwind: Battle of the Ruhr 1943 - S1/E3: The Birthplace of Nazidom
P-51 Mustang vs ME163 - Three Accounts of an Aerial Engagement on August 16th, 1944
มุมมอง 3512 ปีที่แล้ว
P-51 Mustang vs ME163 - Three Accounts of an Aerial Engagement on August 16th, 1944
Whirlwind: Battle of the Ruhr 1943 - S1/E2: The City of Nazi Party Rallies
มุมมอง 1.6K2 ปีที่แล้ว
Whirlwind: Battle of the Ruhr 1943 - S1/E2: The City of Nazi Party Rallies
Hermann Goering Interrogation: Part 3/3 - Luftwaffe's Defeat, Target Selection, Commanders, ME 262
มุมมอง 3872 ปีที่แล้ว
Hermann Goering Interrogation: Part 3/3 - Luftwaffe's Defeat, Target Selection, Commanders, ME 262
Historical: American Newsreel of RAF Bomber Commands Attack on Essen, March 5/6th 1943
มุมมอง 1932 ปีที่แล้ว
Historical: American Newsreel of RAF Bomber Commands Attack on Essen, March 5/6th 1943
Whirlwind: Battle of the Ruhr 1943 - S1/E1: The Opening Blow
มุมมอง 1.4K2 ปีที่แล้ว
Whirlwind: Battle of the Ruhr 1943 - S1/E1: The Opening Blow
Hermann Goering Interrogation: Part 2/3 - Luftwaffe Fighter Production vs Operational Strength
มุมมอง 4K2 ปีที่แล้ว
Hermann Goering Interrogation: Part 2/3 - Luftwaffe Fighter Production vs Operational Strength
Hermann Goering Interrogation: Part 1/3 - Luftwaffe Aircraft Production & Effects of Allied Bombing
มุมมอง 9172 ปีที่แล้ว
Hermann Goering Interrogation: Part 1/3 - Luftwaffe Aircraft Production & Effects of Allied Bombing
ME262 vs Mosquito: Two Accounts of Initial Engagements Between German Jets and Allied Aircraft 1944
มุมมอง 1.4K2 ปีที่แล้ว
ME262 vs Mosquito: Two Accounts of Initial Engagements Between German Jets and Allied Aircraft 1944
British Bombers of the Battle of the Ruhr (March to July 1943) - Design, Tactics, Statistics, Losses
มุมมอง 2K2 ปีที่แล้ว
British Bombers of the Battle of the Ruhr (March to July 1943) - Design, Tactics, Statistics, Losses
America’s Precision Bombing Myth: Part 1 - Area Bombing if Necessary (January to September 1943)
มุมมอง 8632 ปีที่แล้ว
America’s Precision Bombing Myth: Part 1 - Area Bombing if Necessary (January to September 1943)
Website Announcement: Making Archival WW2 Documents Available for Free
มุมมอง 2182 ปีที่แล้ว
Website Announcement: Making Archival WW2 Documents Available for Free
Whirlwind: Battle of the Ruhr 1943 - Season 1/Episodes 1-5 - Essen, Nuremberg, Munich, Stuttgart
มุมมอง 3K2 ปีที่แล้ว
Whirlwind: Battle of the Ruhr 1943 - Season 1/Episodes 1-5 - Essen, Nuremberg, Munich, Stuttgart
The Air War Animated: Battle of the Ruhr - Berlin March 27th/28th 1943 (Animation Only)
มุมมอง 3883 ปีที่แล้ว
The Air War Animated: Battle of the Ruhr - Berlin March 27th/28th 1943 (Animation Only)
Some Really Amazing US Air Force Documents from WWII
มุมมอง 4993 ปีที่แล้ว
Some Really Amazing US Air Force Documents from WWII
Fantastic set of videos, have had a long standing interest in Bomber Command.
I read two of these panzer ace books as a kid, and I loved them, however as a young kid I knew nothing of checking for sources to verify authenticity. Having joined the british army as a tank soldier, later becoming a tank commander, I can tell you now, that the counting of kills is nearly always inaccurate. During large scale exercises we used a laser training system, so the kills, when, where and by who are recorded. Often the data from this system was cross checked with the reports given in real time, in order to show the importance of accurate reporting. Very often the amount of kills recorded was way off, and this is without any sort of propaganda element. I think in the modern era, video games and internet forums have conflated the mythology of German panzer aces in a romantic way. Almost painting these soldiers and their exploits as some sort of dueling knight in an arena of battle. Warfare is far from that case and the story of any war and battle is very much not black and white, is very much a confusing affair, and is almost impossible to verify to that level of detail. To anyone interested in military history, just remember, to be diligent, check for sources and check those sources for authenticity too, if you wish to have a clear picture. Even having done this be aware of the fact that you still will not have a super accurate picture. That is simply the nature of historical military events many years ago.
I have a couple of his books, and I must say I found even the one on Lehr a bit disappointing. The "Ace" series is downright silly.
7:10 What that two numbers means ex: 57/88 total losses?
I know I’m 2 years late but, cheers from Nürnberg. Thank you for covering the raids❤️
It was NOT the first 1000 bomber attack. Staring August 15 1940, 3 great fleets attacked England. The first two had 929 fighters, 875 bombers, 316 dive bombers. From August 24 an average of 1000 planes day were sent. The first night raid was 7/09/1940 when 625 bombers and 648 fighters attacked London. "the most devastating attack from the air ever delivered up to that day on a city." AND LONDON WAS BOMBED CONSECUTIVELY FOR 57 NIGHTS!!! The concentration, labour and death camps alone justified the whole of Germany and every German being wiped off the face of the earth! TWO YEARS OF BOMBING BEFORE I MISERABLE CITY IN GERMAN BURNED - GET YOUR HISTORY CORRECT!!!!
For most of the war 8th AF targets were selected by the Ministry of Economic Warfare and assigned by the Air Ministry.
10.50 32% bombs within 3 MILES of aiming point.
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Within Essen there was still Krupps, virtually intact after nearly three years of attack. page 158 Hyperwar Royal Air Force 1939-1945 Vol II
10.25 62% of bombs within 3 MILES of aiming point
Complete Whirlwind speech th-cam.com/video/5ujzVqwJnB0/w-d-xo.html
An absolutely incredible video.
"Yknow, this whole shooting enemies down as they land business. It's just not very fair." Well, that's total war for ya....
Me 262 had to manage fuel consumption in order to have any significant time on target, so they obviously could not use speed advantage in all encounters. Then the Mustangs had the advantage of firepower and relative speed. Mustangs could engage at will, given better fuel efficiency and range, resulting in better time on target.
SK Media sent me here, great video. As a law student citing sources is crucial, on my pre-university law course we were made well aware what the consequences of not citing properly or not citing at all were.
This is the episode that I wanted to comment on 426 Thunderbirds lost their CO and Sh Williamson had his rear gunner killed by a direct hit from an AA shell. This incident was the inspiration for the box art for the Matchbox Wellington issued in 1978.
I don’t know why it took two years for this video to get recommended to me. Great work. I binge watched a lot of it. Two personal notes: 426 Thunderbird squadron had a war diary published and it covered the loss of their CO during this battle. Also the Dusberg raid was immortalized on the Matchbox Wellington kit. That’s the raid where Sgt Williamson from 428 Ghost Squadron took a direct hit in the tail. I hope your channel continues to do well.
Excellent, well documented presentation
The 262 had 28 jet aces during the war. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_World_War_II_jet_aces
Fascinating. All this happened when the 8th AF included aircraft destroyed on the ground as a kill because there weren't enough aces
Very interesting, thank you for sharing it! Where can I get this file?
I can send you it. Have you checked out the "Air Force Historical Research Agency"? They have millions of pages of documents microfilmed and now digitized. They'll send you 1500 page PDF documents free of charge, you can probably find all kinds of things related to your thesis there. The index is a bit clunky to use and doesn't always have as much detail as you want, but there are very few barriers to getting tons of documents: airforcehistoryindex.org/
@@kellyshistory306 It would be great you could send it to me. I didn't know about the page you are mentioned, I'll check it out. Could you give me the link of the site where I can download the pdf? I know a page called "general staff", I'm sure you will get interesting stuff to make new videos for your channel
@@Manuui28 I'll just link you a link from my Microsoft drive. I host other documents on my website, but Eaker's memo isn't separated on there. I get to it tomorrow if you're in no particular rush.
@@kellyshistory306 No problem! I can wait. Thank you!
@@Manuui28 So I'm gonna send this to you through a Google Docs link. The original PDF was kinda faded, so back when I did the video I had to adjust the contrast and brightness to make the text legible, and I saved those to JPEGs. Also the person who microfilmed everything in the 80's did two photos of every page, one only showing the top half of the page while the next had the whole page. Sometimes however the top of the image from the full page was cut off, so you'll see a few images in there of half pages when the full pages had parts cut off. You can copy the images to word or some other program if you want to. For citation purposes for your Thesis this came from "Reel A1756" Pages 4-35. I'd recommend checking out Maxwell for any air force related documents, it is probably the easiest military historical archive to get stuff from, but there is a bit of a process. If you ever need any help navigating the index and figuring out how to order documents, feel free to reach out. It's simple once you do it once, but that first time can be a little confusing. docs.google.com/document/d/13Pz-RjpmWGP62pRMy2tjCoME64pWhSM7aYad3cXP8_g/edit?usp=sharing
The Lancaster was also equipped with a ventral turrent (the Fraiser-Nash FN.64). These were replaced by the H2S radar dish on many aircraft but only on aircraft without bulged bomb-bay doors. Many aircraft that lost the turret were field modified to carry a downward firing machine gun.
I don't believe the FN64 saw much if any use past 1942, the periscope sight was not designed for night use, and even then the gunner suffered really horrible eye strain and they found people scanning below the bomber in darkness could only use the sight for 30 minutes at most before their became horribly motion sick. I pretty sure it was ditched by the Ruhr. In terms of the field mods for the bottom gun, it was a bit more than that. Bomber Command became aware that many attacks were coming from below in 1942, and implemented a few efforts to counter this. The first was a downward vision blisters, which didn't work for a whole host of reasons, but also a program for the Lancaster, Halifax and Stirling for downward gun positions. The Halifax ultimately had the best designed one (often called the Preston-Green turret), which sat below the bomber and looked similar to the H2S dome. The Lancaster was just a hole int he floor the gunner sat above with a .50 cal and had worse visibility, and was pretty unpopular with crews from reports. The British made equipment to install downward guns on about 2000 aircraft. However there was a decision in 1943 to have H2S actually built into production models of RAF heavies rather than have them installed later. This increased reliability, and also H2S production had grown enough that they could look to equip all mainforce bombers. By the time the German upward firing guns were discovered (sometime in the spring of 1944 the RAF confirmed its existence), the bombers were already rolling off the assembly line with H2S already built in. Essentially the number of aircraft that could actually have downward facing guns installed would just get smaller over time as bombers with H2S built into it were already coming off the assembly line. This issue was hoped to be mitigaged by the fact H2S had fishpond, which allowed radar to scan below for any night fighters, Visual Monica, and the Rose turret and (hopefully) the other newer .50 cal armed turrets would have better downward visibility allowing the tail gunner to spot anything trying to slip in under the bomber from below. However Monica was ditched when it was found the Germans were homing in on it, Fishpond had a minimum range of several hundred yards and wouldn't actually see a night fighter close in below using upward firing guns, and the Rose turret production was slow while the other .50 cal turrets just never got into service (and still had poor downward visibility). AGLT, another tail radar was a bright spot, but only fixed to 3 squadrons by wars end. A very complicated story.
@kellyshistory306 sources online show that several 1 Group Squadrons reinstalled the FN.64 turrets in mid-1944, with the mid-upper gunner being responsible for both turrets. There's a photograph on the RAF Memorial Flight Club of Lancaster HK687 taken in early 1945. This aircraft has the FN.64 turret, which you can just make out behind the crew (wrong shape for a H2S radome. There's also a picture of a 460 Squadron Lancaster taken between November 1941 and May 1943 showing a FN.64 turret. Lancaster II DS685 was shot down on the night of 2nd/3rd August 1943 was fitted with the FN.64, although they didn't have an extra gunner.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 Hmmm. The Air Ministry files I have really talk badly about the FN64, I'm surprised it was still used on any aircraft after 1942. The only thing I can think of in terms of 1944 and 1945 use was that there was talk about possibly reinstalling them for daylight operations as the periscope sight wasn't such a handicap and the turret had pretty good coverage as far as where it could point the guns. The .50 cal mounts they had designed for under-defense were only really useful for attacking an aircraft directly below the bomber. Any information about whether those Lancaster squadrons were doing mostly daylight missions?
@kellyshistory306 no, they were on nighttime operations. HK687 was in night camouflage..
Fins nor rudders.
Most sources I've seen say the Air Ministry asked Handly Page to redesign the twin-engined HP.56 as a 4-engined bomber with RRMerlins replacing the RR Vultures. This requst was made in July 1937.
My mistake then. Thanks for the correction.
The Wellesley also used the geodetic structure and pre-dates the Wellington. The geodetic structure was to be used on the Windsor heavy bomber.
Err, the Short Stirling, the RAF's only heavy bomber, was a pre-war bomber first flying on 14th May 1939 and designed to meet specification B.12/36 of 1936.the Halifax was also dedign to meet a specification from 1936 P.13/36 (for a medium bomber) and first flew on 25th October 1939 which also makes it a pre-war bomber. The Avro Manchester was also designed to meet P.13/36.
How can this not have more views? Great series, well done.
Surprised the germans didnt duplicate target markers in none critical areas.
OK, they did.
@@garynew9637 Yeah, when I was at the British National Archives back in February I finally actually found pictures and drawings of the German decoys from British intelligence files when they investigated decoy sites after VE day. I'll eventually get a video out about it, but I've been just busy with life and not been putting out much the last few months.
My great grandfather’s brother was a radio operator on a B-17 part of the 547th squadron piloted by Horace Fink. Thanks for such a detailed video that gives us an idea of what they did! In the report their plane dropped bombs over Stuttgart and then returned early to Essex due to low fuel.
Excellent work correcting the myth! The number of folks who use the only shotdown when landing myth as a reason to cast allied crews in a negative light always surprises me, but those folks have never been shot at either.
Just found this. Better late than never. Thanks
Fortunately the information doesn't age, so even if you find it later it is still valid. Glad you enjoyed it though Curtis.
Indeed sir.thank you for your efforts.
Wasnt the parachute visible on top right instead?
Well, that is just embarrassing! Fortunately it is an easy correction, so thanks for letting me know so I can change the subtitles.
Fabulous work, we were badly in need of a serious assessment of the ME262 in the air war over Europe
Thanks. Yeah that was my feeling when I made the video. Too many of the books on the ME262 took pilot claims and accounts at face value, creating a distorted impression of the aircraft and the combat in the last months of the war. It also does a bit of a disservice to the USAAF, which actually managed the Jet threat quite effectively. You don't get that impression when books play up inflated kill claims which made the Jets seem like these lethal war machines that attacked almost at will US bombers.
As a nüremberger I enjoyed this vary mutch
It’s just an electrical wiring fault
Yeah, gunfire certainly can cause a lot of wiring faults!
i feel bad watching the dude fly out of his plane like a ragdoll..
Well he was fortunate to get out at all given the altitude, but from the accounts in books he basically mangled his leg and I think sat out the rest of the war in a hospital.
These videos are sensational! Thank you for all the hard work that must go into their production. Hopefully you’re still making them, I can’t wait to see more!
I'm still making them, but life got in the way the last year and my output of content really slowed down. I do hope to get things going again starting this month. Glad you liked it though, yeah its quite a bit of work to make them but also really rewarding to do because I find a learn a lot as well. There is very few books that go into any detail on individual raids, so I never knew much about the specifics I talk about in these videos. The simple process of making the videos means I learn all kinds of stuff I never knew before.
Third time is a charm (YT ate my comment)! Kelly you beat me to the archive, I'm headed there is April! Enjoy your time there:) I will reach out seeking guidance with some archival questions soon.
So its April, have you gotten to the archives yet or is it later this month?
@@kellyshistory306 Its later this month :) I'm getting excited for it and hope to bring back a great haul of information. Mostly HW 5 and AIR 40 series
@@ww2hungary827 You books your rooms and documents yet? The 14 document tables you can book any time, but the 40 document rooms you need to book almost a month in advance. Also you gotta register online and get your ID and stuff, which doesn't take too long but you wanna do that sooner rather than later.
@@kellyshistory306 Yes I have done the online booking well in advance :) I fired off an email to you as well :)
Oh by the way, Military Aviation History just talked (positively) about your book on his channel, so hopefully you see a few more sales. Congrats!
Awesome. Looks like you had a great time so far!
Thank you for sharing. I hope you enjoy the rest of your trip in Europe.
Just watched this episode again, incredibly poignant. Illustrates perfectly the difference between statistics, just the numbers, and the human tragedy behind them. Kudos Sir.
This is the first time I've watched one of your videos. I'll be watching them all now. The quality of this was amazing. In particular, whoever read Mary's letter about the death of her brother is a truly talented voice actor.
Yeah, the voice actress Joy was very talented and did an excellent job. Hope you enjoy the other videos.
Thank you for including the loss of my uncle, Sgt. Eric Hall, in your raid summary. The family were notified, by telegram, that Eric 'was missing on air operations on the night of 26 March' within hours of his loss. The letter written by his sister, Mary, to her brother, Reg (my father was stationed in Egypt with the RAF), helps illustrate the sudden shock and grief suffered by many families at the time and I am pleased that you have used this story to good effect in your video. Your videos are very good historically and I am sure that viewers appreciate your attention to detail and that you include the actions and histories of some of the people involved. Thanks also to the person providing the voice over for Mary's letter. Well done.
Thanks for letting me include your Uncle in the series. I'll pass on your thanks to Joy who voice acted Mary's note.
@@stephenhall1099 Thank you for your comments. I remember when I was disposing of the family farm my aunt recounting how they were informed when their brother was killed by a submarine. My grandfather bellowed like a wounded animal and my grandmother held his shoulders and said : It is alright Albert, we will see him in heaven. It is missed on most how devastating the war was on average people.
Thank you so much for making these videos! They’re absolutely amazing! Brilliant work! Fascinating stuff! Giving faces and names to many abandoned airfields and stations I drive past regularly!
A nice touch using voice actors. You deserve a lot of respect for your work.
Oh Finally! Another one! Made my day my friend, I wonder what's coming up...
another great one. Looking forward to more.
The Bomber Legend is Back To Spread His Influence Over The TH-cam Area
*why so bitter? U mean there were NO aces in ANY of their forces? B.S.!*