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Depends on what you type on now/if you can touch type. I went from a split dactyl (Scylla), touch typing on blank keycaps (so wasn't relying on looking at all for anything), and I can type at about 50-60wpm but I'm not yet daily driving this (nor am I typing every day on my PC). Seems like those coming from split ergos and touch typing can adjust within a few weeks of regular practice, and get mostly if not entirely up to their existing speed on a flat board in a monthish? Again, ymmv, but seems to be the case for most.

Es un teclado de computadora, principalmente para personas que tienen RSI o problemas corporales similares cuando escriben con un teclado normal. Lo usan muchos programadores y otras personas que escriben mucho para su trabajo a diario. ¡Es el teclado más ajustable que conozco y una pieza de tecnología realmente genial! Disculpen mi uso de Google Spanish...

@@beepbuildsathing tranquilo te entendí perfectamente siga innovando.

Yep! Just have to set up drag scroll, then assign a button on your keyboard to enable it :). Then it can be used as a pointer as well as a scroll ball. I found out how to properly do it via a reddit thread (can't recall the exact one but will poke around a bit when I have some minutes spare), so search there for sure! Or check out the Ploopy discord and I'm sure someone can help you there.

@@beepbuildsathing awesome great thank you !!!

Yes, that's a kit-built Scylla with Bobagum switches.

Thanks for watching! :)

That's a great question. They came with the kit. I know @claussen on discord will have the answer (as he's the one who created the Svalboard).

lots of places if you want to get them aliexpress, ebay, etc.

Thank you! Glad to have been able to make a video for y'all to check out :)

The PCB kit is sold at Svalboard.com. it includes screws, magnets, other hardware, but no 3d printed bits. I assume it's much easier to build a kit without having to source *all* the parts minus PCBs themselves.

I believe it'd be possible to (using something like Plover for example), but as it uses QMK it is limited in the same ways as any qmk-powered keyboard is. A handful of people on the Discord have been discussing the possibility, but not sure anyone's taken the time to try it yet.

Yeah, it definitely takes some dedication and time to get back up to your normal keyboard speed/fluency, but for those that do need one to type comfortably it's a game changer. I still am not up to my normal keyboard speed yet, but hopefully in the next months I can make some time to practice. I think in general it's not going to make anyone faster than they currently are, but definitely could make them less likely to suffer further keyboard related injuries to their bodies.

@@beepbuildsathing I built a corne last year and hope sometime in the future I make a custom fit split board. But I'm open to other ideas. I often lay in bed while working due to spine issues and i have to remain perfectly flat. No pillows. So I currently use an elecom huge trackball for mouse movements. It rests on my chest because my bed is small, with the keyboards at my side or resting at an angle on my thighs. I would love a setup with a finger driven trackball plus keyboard in one so I don't have to move my right hand all the time. Thumb trackballs are bad. This has my intrigue but I don't think I type enough to make it worth the learning curve.

I think the challenge of learning to type on one a Svalboard is dwarfed by the benefit it can provide to those with issues typing on a normal keyboard for a variety of reasons. Sounds like you could definitely benefit from trying one of these. I hope you can buy/build a kit in the future - considering you already type on a corne, the transition from split ortholinear to a Svalboard is relatively minor - you already know where most of the keys will be, so it's just a bit of muscle memory retraining for 4 alpha keys, and swapping out some modifiers depending on where you'd like to put them.

Interesting. I had heard of this palm key setup on the keyboardio before but haven't typed on one! I think the Svalboard may not be able to host a key in that area, as most people seem to rest their palm/part of their palm on the palm rest, which I assume would just cause misfires/accidental keypresses were there a key there. There are 6 keys accessible on each thumb though (including double down, aka pushing the thumb down key into a physical switch on the PCB itself), so there's a good chunk of options available if you want to get creative. Would be cool to see a mod where an extra key is added somehow in the palm area though... Maybe in the future!

No u! Thanks buckaroo!!

I'd imagine so, but I have 0 experience with resin. Is it generally fine to have skin contact with printed resin for long durations? Also, what are the properties of resin vs PLA? Will it bend/crack easily for example? I'm also not sure about the printing footprint of an average resin printer, but ideally you'd have enough space to print minimum one bottom case part flat. I'm sure it's probably possible to also print it vertically but again, 0 experience with resin. It's worth checking out for sure - would certainly look very smooth and nice.

Resin is possible, but more brittle, so you may end up replacing the keys more often by comparison to PLA. Not a problem if you have your own printer.

My trackball holders are an older model - there's definitely some users that can turn their board completely upside-down and still keep their trackballs inside the mounts. There's a 4th keeper arm that you can also bend (with a bit of heat via water/hot air) and some people prefer that to be right against the ball (some mounts have a bearing you can add to the keeper to maintain good rolling while also not jumping out).

@@beepbuildsathing how hard was your adjustment to trackball vs mouse? The few times I tried I just couldn't get past the change in fingers for things like clicking and dragging... Very rough spreadsheet days

@@Artificial.Unintelligence I haven't fully switched over to daily driving it yet, but I've found it's a lot more fluid when I intentionally use it on a more regular basis. I game fairly often so have a regular mouse nearby, but tbh now that they added a 'sniper' mode to the firmware (it's a toggle in the Svalboard Vial config), it makes finer movements with the trackball a lot easier!

Great question! I've had the set for many years. Will try to do some digging to look up where I got them and get back to you.

Love your music buckaroo. Keep on being awesome!!

@@beepbuildsathing Thanks my guy and thanks again for including it! 🙏

Depends on whether you consider soldering more difficult vs glueing tiny magnets. There's certainly many more parts to 3d print for the Svalboard vs just the cases of a regular DIY split board, but once you've printed the parts it's just about taking your time and making sure the magnets sit flush in their holes, with the correct polarity. Having built a Scylla in a DIY kit prior I'd say that was more effort for me due to the large amount of soldering involved.

Yep. You're absolutely right. I noticed that also but it was already too late post-filming. Fortunately inverted works the same way.

Is there any reason to identify it then if you just need to make sure to use one magnet to align

@@tacticaltaco7481 only reason would be if you were receiving any printed parts directly from Svalboard after the fact (which could sometimes happens depending on a variety of factors). Overall it's not mega important to have a specific polarity, just opposites.

Hard agree. I was excited to try the challenge of using a translucent Svalboard (because the key sensors can be triggered by *edit* 940nm Infrared light, *I previously wrote UV), so I decided to go with that design. By the time I was ready to film I had already printed all the bits out and didn't have enough magnets to try solid color parts + clear ones, nor did I have the time to reprint everything in alternate colors, so I decided to use the clear ones. Definitely my bad, but I hope my descriptions helped enough to get the idea across regardless. Thanks for watching, and I appreciate the honest feedback.

@@beepbuildsathing yeah bummer. Well this is how we get better ❤️

@@PetrSUsername I stand corrected?

Yeah just see-through plastic alone was like uhhhh yeah can't see any of the surfaces or holes

​@@beepbuildsathingif they're UV triggered, do you have to worry about sunlight levels or anything like that in a room? What about outside, obviously not intended but curious

The keys are super easy to pull out and clean. I haven't used mine enough to warrant a deep clean, but apparently a good spray of compressed air works well for the keywells, and you can wipe the plastic bits down with a normal cleaner or just some vinegar+water or IPA

Yeah, these views are completely nuts! I mean, it's pretty niche stuff I make videos on atm, so the sub count adds up for now haha

Thanks! Yeah. It's definitely a crazy keyboard :)

On other programmable keyboards, you can have your dedicated regular letter keys do something else (like act as modifier keys: shift, alt, ctrl, etc) when you hold them down (the feature is called "tap dance", Ithink. I'm sure this keyboard will likely do the same.

Hi! So for anything using modifiers/keys+mouse action it's pretty straightforward - the Svalboard by default has an 'automouse' layer (layer #15) it enters when it detects mouse movement, or you can assign a mouse layer key on one of the thumbs for example, so for your first combo you mentioned you could either: Hold Ctrl+Shift (for me left thumb pad+nail) then move the mouse even slightly (to auto enter the mouse layer), then press the key assigned to right mouse (for me left ring finger south key), then drag and drop your selection wherever. Just tested this and it works fine as I've described. Alternatively you could manually enter the mouse layer as opposed to using automouse and do the same thing once you need mouse input. A+click would be similar - press A, then move the mouse slightly and press left click key (for me L index finger south). Or A+enter mouse layer+click. Ctrl+shift+esc is easy - just hold down the keys assigned to each. In general it's a good idea to put frequently-used-together modifiers to thumb keys that you can press simultaneously. Alternatively for combos you press very often you can just make a simple macro in Vial and assign that to a single key on a layer (or your base layer, if it's so frequently used). Basically the Svalboard key layout is as customizable as your imagination (as are any keyboards using QMK) the nice thing about the Sval is the low switch weight and extremely low finger travel).

They have a generous trial program (see here: svalboard.com/pages/trial-program) where you can test one out for $100 base + $100/month pro rated. Still not free, but gives you lots of time with one and is still a lot cheaper than buying one outright. There's also a decent chance someone in or nearby your city already owns one and would be open to letting you test it out! Check for this in the Discord, as I know many people have tested one this way for the first time.

Great question - I haven't used CAD software with the scrollball, but it seems to work just like a mouse scrolling does - can do left/right as well as up/down. Might only be that but someone who uses it for CAD already could probably chime in with a better answer. :)

That's a great idea. I used to have a Valve Index, but sold it as it wasn't getting enough use to justify the cost. Would be very simple to use the Svalboard with a VR headset. Good tip :D

Hunt and peckers type much less characters than touch typists, so comparison is not fair.

@@dmitryplatonov not true. Hunt and pecker will hunt and peck for years and decades, and will type way more characters in total without injury than someone who was told to put wrists in a "proper" position, adopted "proper" fingering, and got RSI in 5 years Advanced hunt and pecking that people slowly obtao automatically just by doing it continuously and involving whatever finger movements that come naturally gets you around 30-60 wpm which is a completely reasonable speed, and the main problem is you can't really look at what you're typing. Otherwise it's a completely viable and sustainable way to type

While you do have a point that variation in movements and changing positions often help prevent issues with one's body over extended periods of time, I'm not sure we're talking about the same kind of keyboard user here... The people who pretty well require the use of the Svalboard/Datahand are people who cannot type on a normal slab keyboard anymore, due to the heavier key switch weights and awkward stretching to reach various characters and the pain it causes for them. Also they're often programmers who are typing thousands of keys per day. I'm not sure a 'hunt and peck' programmer would last very long in their industry, but feel free to correct me if I have bad info. Also, typing at 30-60wpm (probably closer to 30 if we're talking about special characters used in coding in addition to alphas) and not being able to see the screen are massive cons for someone who needs to see what they're typing in the context of the code and be productive enough to compete in the extremely competitive dev market. I'm sure hunt and peck can work fine and be reasonably ergonomic for a regular person typing an average to low amount per day (aside from the ergonomics of staring straight down at their keyboard, heh), but even then I imagine they'd develop typing habits that could easily cause RSI in certain parts of their hands from overuse of single digits.

@@beepbuildsathing switch weight is a non-issue nowadays with lots of options for switches and springs and keyboards avaliable. Want a light low travel tactile? Heavy clicky? Silent featherweight linear? No problem. Awkward stretching doesn't have to be a thing at all. It is solved by typing with floating hands, following your own comfort as opposed to doing the movements you think you must do, and for programmers - moving symbols and having layers for navigation etc. Generally speaking, you never do repetitive stretches - you move your hands and/or move your key mappings and/or keys. Moving to a better layout is also an option I agree that it can definitely be a medicinal tool for those who can't use a keyboard already and don't have any other options left, but this doesn't inherently make it ergonomic, like crutches or foot prosthetics aren't "endgame ergonomic shoes" for everyone. Those repetitive tiny lateral movements in particular look suspicious to me, and it seems there are too few users of this to know long term effects on different people with different hands (on the scale of multiple decades) Hunt and peck was just an example illustrating how freeform movement in general seems to be superior to limited repetitive movement. To me it seems this keyboard very much locks people's hands in, so it seems to limit the type and range of movements substantially. But I dunno, maybe the natural position of the wrist and tendons make it fine and lots of identical movements don't matter?... Personally I wouldn't use it unless it was a medical necessity until there was actual data on long term effects

​@@NJ-wb1czif Your hand rests in its most neutral position, because remember this keyboard is infinitely adjustable, then I wouldn't say it's locked in. This seems to result in the same outcome of what you call floating hands. Standard keyboard layouts are not aligned to the natural bends of fingers, at minimum they should be ortholinear, at best, they follow the natural range of hands And fingers with things like key wells.

Yeah, I agree it's heckin' expensive for something to tinker with that isn't actually needed to do your job without pain, but it's worthwhile if you're susceptible to RSI or related afflictions while typing, or if you have the spare cash to support a really cool project, and the time to commit to put one together. As far as bed size goes, the largest single part is the bottom case which measures 200mmx120mm at their largest points. I'm not sure it's been tried yet, but I'm sure it's possible to split the base and case parts in halves that connect in the center like a puzzle or some other clever way. Or you could print all the other bits yourself and do the base and case parts at your local makerspace/a person/company nearby to you offering printing services. Depends on your comfort level with CAD software moreso than anything. I suppose you could try and fit one base or case diagonally and print them one at a time if that fits also.

@@beepbuildsathing 20cm bed measures 28cm diagonally. So parts up to about 22-24cm are generally not a huge problem if you just rotate them by 45°. Bet like this it could even fit on a 180mm printer like the mini cantilever ones. Most common printers have between 220 and 235mm squared usable area.

Nice, then it should work fine for your print bed!

Hm? I'm not sure I follow. The DIY Svalboard kit is $300USD, so definitely less than 400 bucks. If you want to add 2x trackball PCBs it then gets up to 400USD, but the integrated trackballs are definitely worth it (at least for one minimum, but 2 is nice). They can also be added on later if you wanted to start with only the boards. I would say though that it's a bit of an undertaking (time-wise, esp for the 3d printing bits). If you're suffering from RSI&co or feel you work in a field that would give you RSI from typing eventually it's definitely a worthwhile investment, given the very low switch weight and huge range of adjustability.

Yep, noted. There's definitely room for improvement, and I appreciate your advice for future videos!

It's kind of open source, but not entirely (you get the STL/step files for 3d printable parts and the software is fully open source aka QMK) And yes, the Svalboard is the spiritual successor to the Datahand (I think I mention that at the start). It's the repairable, and easily modifiable version of the Datahand with a modern twist. Charachorder is a chording keyboard, so they don't have much in common aside from an alternative look and fewer keys. Also CC has really heavy switches apparently and a tendency to break easily.

I believe there are some people that use it one-handed, yes. Best to check in the Discord if it's something you need a definite answer for though. You could assign one thumb key (for example) to swap to the other side of a keyboard layout and keep using the same hand. I believe it's a fairly straightforward process, just a matter of learning where all the keys are, but it's certainly possible! :)

Thanks for your support, buckaroo! Hope to see you at the next one ;)

@@beepbuildsathing you got it chief, love a good maker channel as I learn this stuff myself!

Lol, for me this is hopefully the last keeb I'm gonna build (for daily use, at least) for a loooong time. I might be building some more tech stuff and possibly keyboards as well just to show others how to do it, but this is my endgame as it has everything I need for daily driving. Thanks for watching! :)

@@perpleksed I intend to build a Gezotype created in Russia in the 70s. You can simulate on Android but without the tactile sensation it does not worth it. You use only one finger. A few microswitches and convert to ocidental alphabet must do it.

@@beepbuildsathing I meant to say Gezotype. Sorry

@@agranero6 just looked into the Gezotype - very cool idea. Would love to see one in action today.

@@beepbuildsathing They created one with old Russian relays. We can do it easily with microswitches.

Nice! Yeah, the Svalboard is a really awesome device and unlike any I've used before (both in mechanical feel/ease of use and regular ongoing improvements). I'm sure by the time you're looking to update your board this will be an even more amazing device. Thanks for watching!

You can do that with any diy board. Cut or mold or 3d print the casing you want, stick your switches in there, and solder to the board underneath with wires. You can even make whatever form you want out of putty which doesn't require any tools or investment whatsoever Soldering may sound daunting if you never soldered before, but it quickly becomes a trivial half an hour task, might even get to like the meditative nature of it

Yep, good points. There's definitely a huge amount of modifications and customization you can do with just some wire, switches, and creativity. There's also something nice about a device that's already been designed and you only need to print out some files in your preferred shape/size/weight and then try them out using FFC connectors. Not everyone has the time to invent their own cool thing. I do understand though that the Sval (even as a DIY kit) holds a price tag higher than the average DIY enthusiast keyboard, but I guess if we're comparing it to artisan keyb stuff with brass plates and engravings and custom everything it's pretty well the same price if not cheaper (especially if you look at some limited edition Drop/group buy stuff that's out there...).

Hey, thanks so much! I like the position a lot - some use their phalanges to operate the ball, but I prefer a slight shift down to use my fingertips. Very personal preference though. I love being able to use my mouse without leaving my keyboard, and integrated mouse keys on any keys you want (plus an auto-mouse layer when you move the cursor if desired) makes it a really seamless experience. Honestly one of the hugest advantages to the Svalboard vs other similar devices with integrated pointing devices is the community on discord is rapidly adding new interesting things to try, and honing the firmware to further customize/integrate useful features. It's by far the most active community I've been a part of in terms of improvements and advancements for the hardware and firmware.

Haha, those are acoustic tiles! Just for something interesting as a background. I assume they're not particularly nice to sit on. Perhaps I'll try it, for science.

Thanks! I definitely plan to :D

The coolest part is that for now at least, this is pretty well the bottom of said rabbit hole - especially when talking about something that's easy to build using the kit and only needs 3d printed parts (if you're building it yourself, of course). There is the price of course, but I'd say if you're looking to try the most adjustable tunable keyboard today this is it. Enjoy the journey :D

@@laughingvampire7555 Thanks :D I feel like some kinda cyberpunk person from the future whenever I use it.

Yes! There's a surprising amount of people in the Svalboard discord who came from an Azeron. Basically it's designed specifically for gaming, and is not suitable for typing. The switches are mouse switches which apparently have much worse action vs a Svalboard (not to mention the Sval's switches don't have a usage limitation vs mouse/traditional key switches as you're just breaking/joining an optointerrupter and therefore not touching anything.) The only wear and tear is in the 3d printed parts, which are easy to print/get someone to print for you for a low cost. Also, apparently the top finger switches on the Azeron are extremely uncomfortable to use/not ergonomic whatsoever, and the thumb stick is limiting your options for layers/modifiers vs the 6-per-thumb keys on the Sval. Basically the Azeron is a cool looking, mildly ergonomic product that's marketed to gamers (and probably decent for some games) and the Svalboard is also cool looking but heaps more useful for everyday life given the customizable (and extremely light) key weight, and practical, ergonomic design. Not to mention the ability to customize pointing devices directly attached to the Svalboard, including a wide variety of trackball sizes/types (plenty of stuff currently in development atm as well) and trackpoint, and likely some other pointing devices in the near future.

@@beepbuildsathing Indeed -- Azeron and Datahand are totally different lineages. Datahand was invented in the late 1980's as a keyboard. Azeron came out of a gamer's pursuit of a better macropad/joycon for his own use, and grew into a business from there. Azeron isn't really suited to use as a keyboard -- I don't think they'd claim it is, either. It's a gaming peripheral. Svalboard, like Datahand, is a keyboard first and foremost.

If you're suffering from RSI or other typing-related pain it can help a great deal to alleviate the problems! Though ultimately it's also about desk height, body position, and many other related elements to get things just right for each person. You can order a sample cluster to try out the key action before committing to a full build or if you're just interested in trying it out.

@@beepbuildsathing I use split keyboards for those reasons! Having my hands shoulder width apart and a good tenting solution has all but eliminated any discomfort and pain I used to feel when typing. Plus they are fun to build and modify! Are you using the keeb as a daily driver?

@@TheGunslingerman10 awesome! Glad split boards have helped you so much. I had similar results when switching to my Scylla, which has been my daily driver for a few years now. I'm slowly switching over to the Sval though, but I still need to create a better layout for gaming for myself, as I find myself switching back to the Scylla for gaming for now. There's lots of people using Svalboards for gaming though. I just need to hone in my layout more so it's functional for me. Most of my spare time these last months has been spent filming and editing this video, so I haven't had a chance to actually just use it as much as I'd like. For now using Dvorak layout as that's what I currently drive on the Scylla, but depending on how that feels after a few months of regular typing I may or may not swap to a 'better' one. Issue with most keyboard layouts is they're designed to make typing on a slab/ortholinear/split board. So far I'm pretty sure there's no Data hand/Svalboard specific layout for reducing SFBs and all that other keyboard layout jazz. Seems most people who use Svalboards actually just keep using whichever layout they used before, as it requires so little hand movement that even inefficient layouts work very well/with such little effort.

Interesting take. I assume then you have a Svalboard or have tried one for an extended time before? I find that though the adjustments can be tricky to get right, I've never felt I've needed to redo the entire process due to one part becoming a bit loose over time. Once you tighten things down firmly it's tough for them to come loose again.

@@beepbuildsathingNah, not really an interesting take. I also have the same concern just by looking at it through common sense, not everything need to be “bought and tried” in order to understand. If anything being gifted a $500 keyboard for free gives you a tinted glasses to look through. Overall it’s clumsy and finicky, far from an “end game”.

@@user-yk1cw8im4h Hey, you're right - that's not an interesting take, now that you've explained your opinion. I think you're making a few too many assumptions there, and also that you don't know what you're talking about. Glad you've cleared that up!

@@beepbuildsathing No problem, it's my pleasure to clear whatever up for you but not sure I did it here. I disagree, it's not an assumption when it's based on watching a 50 mins video. Otherwise, what's the point of this "review"? Why bother? I think everyone got a good enough view of it, all you did differetly is touching it and receiving $500 worth of goods from the product provider. Assumptions are always better than lies anyway. Thanks for showcasing what $500 can do to a hungry youtuber!

@@user-yk1cw8im4h hm, first off this is not a review video. It's a build guide. Says it right in the title... It's designed to assist those who are building a kit. Look, I appreciate that you took the time to watch my very long video and I'm always up for a discussion about things included in my videos, but it seems like you're taking out some frustrations regarding the cost of the kit (something you keep bringing up, despite me never mentioning it). And while I agree, the price for the kit and especially a fully built board are a lot more money than most people are comfortable paying for a keyboard, this is a device designed first and foremost for people who are suffering from RSI or related symptoms (or those who want to prevent them from happening in the first place) and who use a keyboard for many hours daily for their jobs. The majority of the footage you see in the video is of an unfinished Svalboard being built. I mention it several times that I'm not tightening things down very much due to a need for final adjustments. I also mention it can be a very time consuming process to find the best position for each person's hand. But once each part is tightened down, it doesn't move easily without a lot of pressure. Given the switches are roughly 20g, you're not regularly putting a lot of pressure on any part. If a person had issues with screws loosening regularly (which I've not experienced nor heard from the many satisfied sval users in the Discord), you could just use loctite or a similar product to secure the screws. Also, I create these videos to help others learn how to build things, not to lie about the things I build. You're making assumptions about an in-progress-build you saw in an (admittedly) long-assed video. I'm not interested in continuing to explain myself to a random internet stranger. In fact, I've wasted enough time with you already. Take care buckaroo.

wait why? and which country? 🙃

I'm not sure of your meaning. And yes, which country exactly are you referring to?

​​@@beepbuildsathingMurika, clearly. No other nationality has such a course minded centrist perspective. It's because of the propaganda, ala Murika is number one and all that jazz. That and the fact that only a very small percentage of the population has a passport, let alone even stepped foot outside of the US. It's really pretty gross, and one of the reasons I left.

@@newolde1 I am... confused about how a keyboard build guide relates to that?

@@aspiringpelican yeah me too. I'm also confused why you're asking me and not the OP..