Chillaxiom
Chillaxiom
  • 9
  • 49 569
How did the Ancient Egyptians find this volume without Algebra? #SoME3
In 1892/1893 the Russian archeologist Vladimir Golenishchev traveled to Thebes where he purchased a papyrus that would later be known as the “second most important document” to our understanding of ancient Egyptian mathematics or the Moscow Papyrus for short [1]. It contains 25 ancient Egyptian practice problems with their solutions and provides an invaluable demonstration of how ancient Egyptian mathematicians approached and solved problems, including problems of calculating payments, finding ratios for beer making, geometry, and (very) basic algebra. The most remarkable of all of these is problem number 14 concerning the volume of a truncated pyramid. From the papyrus it is clear that the ancient Egyptians knew the same formula we do for this volume, but one thing is unclear… how?
In modern mathematics we would find the volume of such a pyramid quite easily using algebra, but from every other source we have found it very much appears that the ancient Egyptians had no substantial knowledge of algebra. This seeming contradiction was first noticed by B.A Turaev in his 1917 paper [2] and expanded on in a 1929 paper by Gunn and Peet who provided a potential way the ancient Egyptians could have discovered this formula [4]. However, while Gunn and Peet found an elegant way to find this formula without the use of algebra (in the modern sense), their solution would require the ancient Egyptians to have known a version of what is called “Greek algebra” which is also not demonstrated in any source as pointed out by Vetter in his 1933 roast on the same topic [4]. There have been many more voices in this discussion over the years, including Kurt Vogel in 1930 and and Siegmund-Schultze in 2022 (who suggested the Egyptians used the same method as the Chinese mathematician Liu Hui), however none have provided a potential solution convincing enough to gain a consensus in the academic community [5, 6]. So the question still remains… how did they do it??
In this video we will explore this very question and even take a look at my own potential solution which I believe to be the most practical and least objectionable I have seen yet! But the question I have is, what do you think? Do you think my solution was doable by the ancient Egyptians? Do you think that is how they actually did it? Or do you have your own ideas?
You may learn, you may laugh, and if I’ve done my job you may even not cry. But no matter how you react, if our video makes your day better please remember to like and subscribe and tell your friends. Have a great day!
Sources
1. M. Clagett, Ancient Egyptian Science. 1989.
2. B. A. Turaev, “The Volume of the Truncated Pyramid in Egyptian Mathematics,”in Ancient Egypt (1917), 100-102.
3. Gunn, B., & Peet, T. E. (1929). Four Geometrical Problems from the Moscow Mathematical Papyrus. The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, 15(3/4), 167-185.
4. Vetter, Q. (1933). Problem 14 of the Moscow Mathematical Papyrus. The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, 19(1/2), 16-18.
5. Vogel, K. (1930). The Truncated Pyramid in Egyptian Mathematics. The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, 16(3/4), 242-249. doi.org/10.2307/3854215
6. Siegmund-Schultze, Reinhard (2022). Another look at the two Egyptian pyramid volume ‘formulas’ of 1850 BCE, British Journal for the History of Mathematics. British Journal for the History of Mathematics. ISSN: 2637-5451. 37s 171 - 178. doi:10.1080/26375451.2022.2106061.
Intro Music
"Cambodian Odyssey" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
มุมมอง: 22 222

วีดีโอ

Why We Care About Functions #SoME2
มุมมอง 17K2 ปีที่แล้ว
Made for 3Blue1Brown's Summer of Mathematical Exposition #SoME2 Many people are taught that functions are mathematical objects which take in an input, and somehow transform it into an output. This understanding only views what functions "do" to individual inputs, and while not wrong, we think we can do better! In this video, we explore a global understanding of functions as objects which don't ...
Doughnuts: How many dozens are there? - Beautiful Combinatorics
มุมมอง 1K3 ปีที่แล้ว
Happy π day, y'all! Ever wonder how many different combinations of a dozen donuts there are given a certain number of flavors? No? Oh... Yeah, me neither... Ha ha hmm well regardless, here's the answer. chillaxiommath
Proving all horses are the same color with MATH
มุมมอง 4.9K3 ปีที่แล้ว
In this long awaited part 2 in a our Mathematical Induction series, we tackle a famous logical paradox. Our first mathematical induction video: th-cam.com/video/WsDQ1R3IBHE/w-d-xo.html Video from Tibees: th-cam.com/video/0-pL2J0ZB8g/w-d-xo.html Video from Infinite Series: th-cam.com/video/KTUVdXI2vng/w-d-xo.html Music by Wintergatan and his marble machine: th-cam.com/channels/cXhhVwCT6_WqjkEnie...
How to prove infinitely many things - Mathematical Induction
มุมมอง 1K3 ปีที่แล้ว
From Disney Princesses to numbers, everything has one thing in common: math. Wait really?! I gotta see this video! Today, Daniel Valvo explores some of the foundations of mathematical proofs, from generalization to division into cases to mathematical Induction. Whether you like laid back PhD students, mammals, or D12s, this video has something for you. Enjoy (and don't forget to smash the like ...
Number Systems and the 4,933,001 Missing Romans #MegaFavNumbers
มุมมอง 1.5K4 ปีที่แล้ว
#MegaFavNumbers We often take for granted the significance of our modern number system, but it wasn't always so easy to count to 5 million. Join me on a journey through time and discover how our modern system came to be. Made by Daniel Valvo & Nick Brown Chapters: 00:00 #MegaFavNumbers 00:23 Introduction 01:45 Designing a Number System from Scratch 03:20 Ancient Egyptians system 06:14 Roman Num...

ความคิดเห็น

  • @bethcurrie8696
    @bethcurrie8696 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Absolutely brilliant! thank you!

  • @absention390
    @absention390 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Started online judging for SoME4 and remembered this video from SoME3. Honestly my favorite video, my mom is a math professor and she loved it too. I'd love to see you make another one for SoME5, your style of presentation makes your video a lot more grabbing than most other submissions

  • @luxmaggie
    @luxmaggie 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I remember this from college but I don't remember how to do the equation lol

  • @teachmath3394
    @teachmath3394 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great Thanks again

  • @amandadierenfeldt7052
    @amandadierenfeldt7052 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Cause Egyptians didn’t build i! They stumbled on it later. Like after the comet, flood , ice age. The ancients built it using a simple string and holding it up to the stars. It’s called a plumberline!

  • @kevinlu5481
    @kevinlu5481 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Nice video! Thought this was minkowskis theorem from the thumbnail which uses a similar mapping

  • @agentstache135
    @agentstache135 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Guess and check, perhaps the oldest trick in the book p.s. you can put a video link above the description

  • @LightPink
    @LightPink 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Not enough likes and subs :/

  • @Lisa-t1n7l
    @Lisa-t1n7l 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Explains absolutely nothing. Will look for a better tutor

  • @alaingamache3908
    @alaingamache3908 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Every now and often I teach a unit on Egyptian Math to high school students. This demonstration is the best I have encountered as a POSSIBLE way to could have reasoned. It is also worth saying that numerous arguments by the Greeks were credited to be coming from the Egyptians, and that argument seems to fall exactly in line. Thank you!

  • @kovko69
    @kovko69 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Here's an image of the original math problem. You'll need to know Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics to translate what it says exactly: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Papyrus_moscow_4676-problem_14_part_1.jpg Personally, I think that they stumbled across the neat mathematical phenomenon by trial and error. They knew how to dissect shapes. Other thoughts... The Ancient Egyptian pyramids are stepped and a series of stacked cuboids, and not the smooth angled ones we think pyramids are as a general shape. I.e. it's a bunch of cuboids, or rather to them, it may have been a series of areas of a square times its height all added up. The formula can be derived from this, with greater accuracy using more and more steps of the pyramid (cuboid cross sections). They'll be able to see what volume it tends towards.

  • @DancingPony1966-kp1zr
    @DancingPony1966-kp1zr 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The point is not to confuse the notation qith the numbers. Same as music and language.

  • @ardlight172
    @ardlight172 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Really loved this. I am looking forward to more content like this one. It was fresh, interesting, made me take pen and paper and think about a problem. It even has yo-mama jokes. Niiiice

  • @KeozFPV
    @KeozFPV 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Or we just using the easy way and saying that Aliens have shown the Egyptians the formula. Joke aside, your guess is really convincing.

  • @StatiCraft3712
    @StatiCraft3712 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think you’re forgetting the new mathematicians greatest discovery tool. Doing an equation the “wrong way” but ultimately finding a new way to do it. I think the long equation was known but somebody made a “mistake” and proved something new

  • @jujuteuxOfficial
    @jujuteuxOfficial 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    did they actually need to know the volume? this was done over years, and filling the thing with stones that doesn't pack neatly is one more reason that it's not really needed they likely just filled the thing up until it reached high enough it's >35% rubble, not cut stones

  • @JamesWanders
    @JamesWanders ปีที่แล้ว

    I liked and subscribed. Gonna be expecting that 10/22/6023 video.

  • @Xeroxorex
    @Xeroxorex ปีที่แล้ว

    The Egyptians could have made TH-cam videos, it's a bold claim to make, when there is no evidence they DIDN'T make TH-cam videos.

  • @chrishelbling3879
    @chrishelbling3879 ปีที่แล้ว

    Gotta love any math video that insults my mom right off the bat. Your disection / reärrangement theory is brilliant.

  • @hasanalharaz7454
    @hasanalharaz7454 ปีที่แล้ว

    Will you publish this? I mean it’s completely bew

  • @alphalunamare
    @alphalunamare ปีที่แล้ว

    8:48 The Egyptians knew about rationals but not to the extent of their manipulation that we know today. They could conceive of 'parts' which when aggregated gave 'answers'. They'd say take a fifth then add a sixth and remove a fourth to arrive at a solution but they couldn't just say take seven 60th's because that level of manipulation was beyond them. That we can express their ways of doing things via algebra just makes us clever in figuring out whether they were correct or not, it has no baring on whether they were as bright as us or not or indeed how they arrived at their ways of calculation. All it really says is that our slick way of figuring things out via algebra means that we have forgotten the old ways of doing things. 12:00 Bravo! :-) I think you have explained exactly how they did it! I am well impressed :-)

  • @alphalunamare
    @alphalunamare ปีที่แล้ว

    lol, I had to turn subtitles on for this 🙂

  • @agnelomascarenhas8990
    @agnelomascarenhas8990 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent presentation! The ⅓ of height was a worrying step with integer counting.

  • @DavyCDiamondback
    @DavyCDiamondback ปีที่แล้ว

    Almost always, pre-algebra, some hipster used geometry

  • @philippecoulonges4439
    @philippecoulonges4439 ปีที่แล้ว

    Talking about Ancient Egypt is talking of about 3 millenniums, without more precision, we could say Israel had atomic bombs at the time of Christ. I've done a little research (well, I just read Wikipedia), the Moscow papyrus is a late document, 20th to 22nd dynasty, which means around 1000BC, effectively well before the Greek mathematicians, but more than a millennium after the construction of the great pyramids, they had time to think about it.

  • @piwi2005
    @piwi2005 ปีที่แล้ว

    You don't need algebra to know that a square of a sum is the sum of squares plus two times the product, and you do not need algebra to know that the difference of cubes is the difference times the sum of squares and product. Fermat's proof on Fermat theorem for n=4 is in full latin without a single variable. This looks very much overfitted and completely over interpreted, just because of one sheet of papyrus. You do not even know if egyptians had complete valid proofs or were satisfied with heuristic equalities that happened to always work.

  • @msthurnell
    @msthurnell ปีที่แล้ว

    I like the pyramid shaped measuring tool. It’s my guess that the Nubians actually had such Pyamid shaped measuring tools to measure exact fractions of the cube or a cubit sized box of grain or whatever substance.

  • @BrianSpurrier
    @BrianSpurrier ปีที่แล้ว

    One trick for that Roman Numeral multiplication, which I know we all struggle with in our daily lives: use a weird form of Roman scientific notation. However, rather than multiplying by 10 being equivalent to adding a zero to the right of the number, it’s equivalent to “bumping up all the symbols”. In the table he gave, every number in the table is equivalent to either 1,5,or 25. The only difference is how much the symbols are bumped up. So you can kinda do Roman numeral lattice multiplication to solve digit by digit dealing only with I,V, and X and then just convert them all at the end. This is still nowhere near practical for any kind of use, but it’s fun trying to push the boundaries of this old system

  • @dluxdoggdlux
    @dluxdoggdlux ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for this interesting video! Just a quick remark on your "Before they discovered the wheel" remark - I know that was meant to be a joke or offhand comment but this is incorrect. They knew about wheels. Egyptians primarily used the Nile for transport (and thus are "sea faring" society); wheels in the desert make little sense. As many historians have observed, the issue isn't about "inventing the wheel" - the main technological challenge was to create a working axle.

  • @neutronstarmerger
    @neutronstarmerger ปีที่แล้ว

    Congrats on the (much deserved) honorable mention for SOME3!

  • @munimahmed7877
    @munimahmed7877 ปีที่แล้ว

    nobody : absolutely nobody : conspiracy theories : " YOOOO we found the 69420 th (false) proof that aliens contacted with the ancient egyptians and made the pyramids. "

    • @tristanridley1601
      @tristanridley1601 ปีที่แล้ว

      It's funny, because the only people underestimating the Egyptians more than the old 'authorities' are the conspiracy theorists. "It couldn't have been that they were really smart and maximized use of the knowledge they had. It had to be ALIENS!"

  • @crowonthepowerlines
    @crowonthepowerlines ปีที่แล้ว

    4:03 Was the wheel originally used for pottery in Egypt as well? I knew it was used in China for pottery long before it was applied to transportation, but it's interesting to hear the same is true among other cultures.

    • @tristanridley1601
      @tristanridley1601 ปีที่แล้ว

      Absolutely. Egypt and Mesopotamia exchanged pretty much every decent idea they had, and Mesopotamia (probably) had pottery wheels before China. It was also probably used for niches as a roller (like logs under stone blocks when they couldn't use a water channel).

    • @alphalunamare
      @alphalunamare ปีที่แล้ว

      Rameses, without wheels, must have had a heck of a problem riding his chariot at the Battle of Kadesh as shown in the Hieroglyphs.

    • @Ozymandi_as
      @Ozymandi_as 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Egyptians also had very little wood that could be used for construction of anything. Granite wheels would make for a rather limited charioting sector, I imagine. That and the lack of horses. Besides, who needs wheels when you've got an unlimited supply of slaves?

  • @Maric18
    @Maric18 ปีที่แล้ว

    what i think is going on here: the induction step says that if there are n+1 horses, then n horses are already monochromatic, whch is true, and any subset (of the original n+1) of n horses shares at least 1 horse, which is false, specifically if n == 1 n+1 then assumes that in 2 horses, every subset containing exactly 1 horse, also shares a member, in which case the proof only works if all horses are one horse (assuming a pride of horses can contain the same horse multiple times :D)

  • @efrandsen72
    @efrandsen72 ปีที่แล้ว

    Know the volume of a pyramid? Yeah, I think the Egyptians had that one down.

  • @TomTom-rh5gk
    @TomTom-rh5gk ปีที่แล้ว

    Another internet hoax.

  • @KUWAITGRIPSVEVO
    @KUWAITGRIPSVEVO ปีที่แล้ว

    Egyptian math homework was literally “Chepsut has a ten foot pyramid and Nefer has one half that size. What is the ratio of their volumes?” You can’t make this up

  • @BritishBeachcomber
    @BritishBeachcomber ปีที่แล้ว

    Ancient Egyptians did not know algebra (equations) but they were masters of geometry (measurement). They would realise that you can easily divide a truncated pyramid into easily manipulated rectangles and trapezoids by dissection.

  • @whiterottenrabbit
    @whiterottenrabbit ปีที่แล้ว

    How is it even possible to speak that unintelligibly? Thank goodness for CC **facepalm**

  • @ABaumstumpf
    @ABaumstumpf ปีที่แล้ว

    Getting the volume of a pyramid is easier than this - so i would assume that for the side-parts they just used that.

  • @CatFish107
    @CatFish107 ปีที่แล้ว

    Garbage little jokes spokenreallyfastattheendofasentence.

    • @CatFish107
      @CatFish107 ปีที่แล้ว

      What I'm saying is, counter to the usual viewers fawning over you, a new viewer is actively offput by your style.

  • @JohnDlugosz
    @JohnDlugosz ปีที่แล้ว

    Basically, you can do algebra (manipulate forms) physically using clay.

  • @joelsmith3473
    @joelsmith3473 ปีที่แล้ว

    Criminally undersubscribed. I've subbed, look forward to more, and wish you success to get the view numbers you deserve.

  • @debrucey
    @debrucey ปีที่แล้ว

    please speak slower and enunciate

  • @LetsGetIntoItMedia
    @LetsGetIntoItMedia ปีที่แล้ว

    Always happy to rewatch this awesome video again, now in short form!

  • @MrTheblackopsdude
    @MrTheblackopsdude ปีที่แล้ว

    With the quality of your videos, I thought you'd have several hundred thousand subscribers. The subtle humor is 💯

  • @vixguy
    @vixguy ปีที่แล้ว

    Dam I've never seen a physical proof. Very cool