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what's that?

@@FastKnight401 new game inspired by undertale and doki doki

@@japan-flanders1078 I've never played that game and I don't really plan on playing it. I don't really have any plans for any videos; I just make things I enjoy. Though, to answer the original comment, probably not.

Any reasons as to why you believe this way? Right now, all you said was "it's an undeniable fact", so explain why it is undeniable? Do you have any explanations for the discrepancies between the player theory and some of the dialogue that I show? The 3 in particular are that the narrator uses second-person pronouns on Kris, the soul is Kris so they can't control themselves without it, and the vast majority of the arguments used to prove the player theory fail to prove it's the player and not another entity controlling Kris. An actual counter-argument would be way more useful rather than saying it's undeniable and not elaborating on it. Calling it a bad theory doesn't help either. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's bad. I encourage you to provide counter-arguments but I advise you not to say things like "bad theory" or "it's obviously true" cause that's based on what you saw in the game. People have reasons for why they think a certain way.

what?

​@@FastKnight401 you ignored glaring evidence proving that the player is controlling kris, and then used mental gymnastics to "prove" that it's false. this is EVEN worse than the third entity theory, which although terrible, it isn't TOTALLY unfounded

@@clunkye8053 what's the evidence I supposedly ignored?

@@FastKnight401 goner maker sequence, gaster twitter takeover, Kris' reaction after the spamton neo fight, the ch1 ending cutscene

I don't know what the goner maker sequence is and have a limited idea of Gaster's twitter takeover, so if you could elaborate more, that would be helpful. Meanwhile, I did elaborate on Kris' reaction after the Spamton NEO fight and the ending cutscenes of both chapters in the video. Maybe you should watch and understand the video before typing a comment against the premise so you know what exactly the video is arguing.

Bro like every Undertale fan did this and even more the game is from 2015 also have you the people who do fan games no hit they are way more insane than this

:3

And a nice no hit run

alright, I'll try it

no, I haven't given up, it's just not on my priority list right now

If solo hard is possible, then solo hard deathless would also be theoretically possible. I don't really see any reason for solo hard to not be possible. The only difference is probably the bomb rush. The noob rush is possible, I've done it on expert.

Kris saying things in a confused or unsure way is something to take into consideration. I don't really have too much to say about it, except that it is evidence that points towards Kris and the player being different. The point on Kris entering the dark world having red eyes is something I didn't know when making this video, but learned it from the comments. However, what I also noticed is that it is Kris' dark world sprite, so that isn't necessarily Kris' eyes in the light world. And even if their eyes were red in the light world, that brings up the question on why their eyes were white in before they ripped out their soul. In addition to this, the size of Kris' eyes when Kris is entering the dark world would have changed as well. That's why I don't think this point stands. Kris walking weirdly could definitely be argued as them struggling to break free from control, and then also requiring the soul to survive. I haven't ever heard the explanation that the body is ours and Kris'. The thing is, if the body does something, did you do it, or did Kris do it? The main pattern I see in the narration is that if it's hard coded in, it uses "you" and if it's soft coded in, it uses "Kris", with the exception being the snowgrave route, at the Spmaton NEO fight, where it says "Kris called for help", which is likely hard coded in. If you're not sure what this means, an example would be when you use an item on Kris, it would say "Kris used <item>", but when you act, it uses "you" to refer to Kris. The reason for this is likely not story related, but likely something to do with the coding. I haven't looked in the code, but I would assume the item one is coded as "<name> used <item", where the name can be Kris, Ralsei, Susie or Noelle. However, the act messages had to be hard coded in, since they're unique for each character. My point here? In most of the cases, it just uses "Kris" and "you" interchangeably. Why does it use "Kris" on items but "you" on dialogue relating to acts? Why specifically this? What's the difference between them that makes this change make sense? For me, this isn't really a lore explanation but a coding explanation. I don't think Toby Fox intended to differentiate Kris and the player. Now, of course, the thing I didn't realize when making this video is that, there may actually be no objectively correct answer. Maybe neither standpoints are wrong. As long as the theory makes sense, it could work. I guess the point of this video is just that the common theory isn't necessarily true. However, it isn't necessarily false. For now, there is no objectively correct answer. Of course, something might come in future chapters that 100% proves Kris and the player the same/different. Or maybe not, and it will always be up for debate, with no objectively correct answer ever coming. We'll just have to wait and see.

For free models, if it doesn't have scripts, then yes, it's fine. All plugins should have scripts, since that's what makes them work.

The only thing I could find on Kris being uncomfortable with Ralsei is the thing with the tea, as the Ralsei tea gives Kris less HP than the other character flavoured tea. That's not the full story, and I'll talk about why Kris likely doesn't feel uncomfortable around Ralsei. I won't talk about parts in the game code that aren't accessible, which are Noelle drinking Susie and Ralsei tea. 50 is the amount healed when Ralsei drinks Noelle tea, implying not knowing each other is 50. I would say 50 means "neutral" then, since it wouldn't be negative or positive. Ralsei tea heals 60 to Kris, which would mean above neutral with this definition. Noelle tea heals 70 with Kris. With this information, I wouldn't say Kris feels unconfortable with Ralsei if you agree to this theory on the tea. However, characters heal 10 HP outside of battle, and 40 HP in battle when they drink they're on tea, so there is something missing in what most people think the tea mean. I haven't thought about the tea enough to decide what they mean yet. With that being said, if Kris and the player were the same (what the video suggests), Kris feeling uncomfortable around Ralsei is entirely based off what the player feels. That means if the tea represents how the characters feel about each other, it would be a major point against the idea that Kris and the player are the same.

@@FastKnight401 do you believe the tea theory explains main characters' interactions with each other?

@@maila319 I haven't looked into it a lot, so I don't have too many opinions for it. Mostly because I couldn't find any way to prove/disprove the current numbers that are accessible and not in the game code. If we inaccessible parts, it does point in that direction. Again, what most people say isn't the full story, as the characters heal different amounts from their own tea, depending on whether they're in a battle or not.

I'll try that

P.S: I think the simplest explanation for the you vs the kris thing is that YOU are controlling Kris. Kris probably wouldn’t normally check out the cupboard under the sink because they already know what’s there, they wouldn’t usually steal Asriel’s money, that’s something YOU do. Basically every time the game mentions Kris’ name it seems to be them doing their take on your commands. When it’s just you, it’s just the player. Just some thoughts (:

@@Flynnisthename It does boil down to intent. That's probably why the strongest point against the common theory would be the narration (in Undertale, the narrator always refers to Frisk as "you" even when Frisk's name is revealed, and always refers to Kris as "you" in Deltraune). The strongest point for the common theory (in Deltarune at least) would be the snowgrave dialogue "you whispered Noelle's name", at least, in my opinion. Both of these involve the narration directly, and should be considered when arguing any side. In Undertale, I haven't really seen much evidence for Frisk and the player being different. The only think I've seen is Flowey saying "let Frisk be happy", but Flowey is well known for breaking the fourth wall (not every fourth wall break in Undertale has had a deeper meaning like some people suggest). There's also quite a lot of evidence against it, like Frisk always plays along with your actions. Is Frisk a psychopath that likes the genocide route, or do they like befriending people literally trying to kill them? They can't really be both. Another point would be that the game always, without exception this time, refers to Frisk as "you". I feel the points people make for Frisk and the player being different aren't exactly that strong, mostly because it's always this one point. I don't think Toby Fox intended for Frisk and the player being different, mainly because he would've implied it more if he had. In Deltarune, there are more implications, but I still don't think Toby Fox intended for Kris and the player to be different, mostly because he never really implied it in the narrations (the narrator almost always uses "you" for Kris). Sometimes, the narrator uses "Kris", but that could be explained by how the game was coded. The game uses "you" when the dialogue is hard coded and "Kris" when the dialogue is soft coded (I didn't look in the game code, I just know based on what the dialogue was, like for items, it would say "Kris used <item>" which would likely be coded as "<name> used "<item>" and name was "Kris"). There is one exception, the snowgrave dialogue "Kris called for help", which is likely hard coded in but uses "Kris" instead. That's the strongest point for the common theory, I think at least. Toby Fox did this on purpose, and there's no other explanation, other than the common theory, that I can think of. The narration gives 2 conflicting results. And again, Kris and the player may just be the same. I don't think the narration is an oversight by Toby Fox, but we can't rule it out either.

Makes sense. Many people thought the player and Kris were different, but many people, including me, never really thought about it, since we just assumed they were the same, like in every other story game. Both do have a chance of being correct. And it is correct that we don't have enough information about the story. Both could be overanalyzing. I have tried to avoid overanalyzing, but it's not certain that I haven't overanalyzed anything. I'm pretty sure there are some things I've said that may not have been in the mind of Toby Fox. Of course, some points for the common theory are probably also overanalyzing. We'll have to wait for future chapters to know for sure though. I just hope this video put light to the fact that the idea of Kris and the player being different is just a theory, and not 100% confirmed, as most of the comments and videos I've seen seem to assume the theory being correct, but never really mention that it is a theory.

This has actually already happened. Many people think Frisk and the player in Undertale are different. The community is more divided on this part though.

@@FastKnight401 It is lightly hinted at in undertale with the line "Let Frisk live their life" from flowey at the end of the pacifist route. Just nowhere near the extend of Kris being different from the player in deltarune.

@@lillyofthegalley that's talking about Flowey, who's very well known (at least in my eyes) as someone who constantly breaks the fourth wall. Yes, Frisk and the player are different, but not canonically, only if you break the 4th wall. Flowey always breaks the 4th wall, so that's why this isn't enough evidence for me. And since there are people who say "every 4th wall break has had a deeper meaning", here's a question I have. What deeper meaning does "and this is how you repay me? treating me like dlc" (Spamton NEO quote in Snowgrave) supposed to mean. How about "this is all just a game" (Flowey in True Pacifist)?

​@@FastKnight401 Not every fourth wall has a deeper meaning, but this one clearly does. It's flowey very clearly telling YOU, THE PLAYER, to "Let frisk live their life" at the end of a pacifist route, clearly making a distinction between you and Frisk.

@@FastKnight401 And remember: You made a point I can't claim Toby not distinguishing the difference between Kris and the Player in every narration dialogue is simply "unimportant", you can't go around and do the same thing for fourth wall breaks.

You're right. I do think this white and red eye thing is intentional though, but it's not specific to Kris, so it may not mean much. You do have to look closely to see Susie's eye change while Kris' is pointed out very well. Of course, it could just be that, the eye colour changes randomly in this world.

Point on Kris' eyes being normally red: well, actually, that doesn't prove it because it only shows red in his dark world sprite. The light world sprite never actually shows the eyes. The dark world and light world sprites are very different, so the eyes being red in the dark world sprite doesn't actually prove the eyes are normally white in the light world sprite. Point on white eyes: I'm actually not sure if this is true. I've never seen white eyes for moments in pain. And if we assume this is true, well, it's also a common thing to make red eyes mean evil or something like that. Anyways, here's all the points in the video. Point 1 (part 1): This point addresses a common point I heard regarding how you can move the soul during the chapter 1 ending cutscene. The video states that it doesn't really prove much, since we were always able to control the soul. However, this is obviously not evidence enough. Point 1 (part 2): This part of the point talks about how Kris isn't really normal in the cutscenes. The first weird thing is that they move weirdly. This can be explained by the fact that Kris is going against our control and has no soul. However, then why did they put the soul on? This can be explained by saying Kris would probably meet the same fate as Spamton or Kris needs the soul. Kris meeting the same fate as Spamton is however, challenged by the fact that Spamton fell instantly when he cut his strings, while Kris seems to stay a long time without the soul. The video ends this weird thing here but in the comments, someone did point out that Kris and Spamton aren't the same, which is a fair point. Maybe humans or lighters can stay longer than darkeners. The next weird thing is that smile Kris has. It seems very unlike Kris to make that weird smile. People have pointed out that it could just be a prank. However, the more you look into this cutscene, the less it looks like a prank. The next weird thing is the eyes changing colour. The eyes are white at the start and red at the end. You and someone else did point out the eye in the transition, but that's Kris' dark world sprite, so it doesn't really prove much. So in the end, things about Kris change, with no one really noticing. Noelle does notice, but only in the Snowgrave route, which could be explained by, well, Kris is going to the dark world and has a friend. You'd expect more people to notice the sudden change in Kris (unless Kris was controlled by us before chapter 1, which doesn't make sense really). As a side note, even if Kris and the player were different, I would still argue Kris isn't in control during these cutscenes for the reasons given. In that case, my argument would be 2 people are fighting over control for Kris, them being the player, and someone else. However, my argument is we are Kris, but I just wanted to point that out. Point 2: This point addresses a common point where people say Kris is uneasy. My point here is that this can be because of something else. Maybe Kris knows how it is to be controlled. Or of course, the entire basement was kind of scary. Of course, this doesn't mean that player control isn't the reason he's uneasy, my point here is it doesn't have to be player control. This doesn't really challenge the theory, but I'll get to that in the later points. Point 3: This point actually regards a point I heard only once. The point is well, our soul goes with Susie during Susie vs. Lancer. My point here just provides a counter-question, how come damage done to our soul damage all our party member? We have no control over Ralsei or Noelle, and we definitely have no control over Susie, so why does it damage them? These 2 question probably have the same answer, it's game design. In a perfect world, the first question would be of significance. However, the problem here is that a game isn't a perfect world. The question that should be asked before calling it "game logic", was there anything better to do? Well, my answer is no. This cutscene was definitely important for the fight, and Lancer not going for Susie was something put there to explain Lancer's position here. Not making the soul come would've made Susie invulnerable. I don't think there's anything better that could be done without making the fights significantly harder. But the lore never really counters this point directly, so we can't rule it out either. Point 4 (part 1): This point addresses Noelle talking about Kris' voice. The first part explains Noelle hearing Kris' voice while Kris is down. The thing is, this isn't specific to Noelle. Everyone hears Kris' voice when Kris is down, Noelle is the only one to point it out. It kind of has to be done this way, since the secret boss fights are already hard as it is right now. Kris needing to be up to command makes it harder. The problem is, Noelle does point it out. This could be a casual 4th wall break, but it would take a lot to prove it. It wasn't really comedic or anything. It's not impossible, but I don't think it's a casual 4th wall break. However, I really don't have an explanation for this. Of course, Susie doesn't hear us in the basement cutscene (before she fights Lancer). People have tried to say that Susie is far from Kris, and our voice comes through Kris, but the problem is, that would mean no one would hear when Kris is down. The point isn't very consistent, but characters hearing us when Kris is down can be more easily let off as "game logic", and Susie not hearing can't. The lore never really counters either, so we're left with conflicting points. Point 4 (part 2): I know you're looking for counter-points, but this isn't one. This is saying that in the Spamton NEO fight in snowgrave, it says "Kris called for help" but "you whispered Noelle's name". The distinction between "Kris" and "you" can't really be explained in any other way. So then the question comes, why I still believe that Kris and the player are the same? Well, here's the really strong point against the theory. Point 5 (main reason why I don't believe in the theory): Many times throughout the game, the game uses "you" when referring to Kris. I put examples in the video. This is the really big evidence against the theory, and none of the counters seem to have worked. The game says "your eyes began to close", "your mother", "you flushed the toilet", stuff like that. The game usually uses "you" when the dialogue is hard coded in and "Kris" when it's soft coded in. This happens in every case but one, the Spamton NEO snowgrave route. The fact that this distinction is made in 1 case makes it less likely that Toby Fox forgot to make this distinction. Someone did say it would hurt the experience, but I argue against that. Replacing all "you" with "Kris" would make a difference that most people wouldn't notice unless making theories. The only case it wouldn't is when it says "your", to which it could dance around it, saying "a", or saying the names of the people, or just avoid talking about them in general. Toby Fox doesn't seem like the person to directly lie in the dialogue, and if he does, I'd be against the decision, since it doesn't make good storytelling and ruins the point of theorizing. Basically no theory or their counters would stand. He hasn't done it in Undertale or Deltarune yet though, and this is probably not the first. Point 4.5 (it's integrated into point 4 but it's really a point of it's own): Another point made is that when Kris goes to sleep, we go to sleep as well. People have said that maybe the player is linked to Kris, and can't see anything if Kris can't. The problem with that however, is when Kris rips out their soul. The game should probably black out when this happens, since the connection between Kris and the player is severed. Maybe it's "game logic", but in my opinion, the game blacking out would be very interesting. Point 5 (not really a point): This last point I made isn't really a point. It talks about how it isn't really good for gameplay for them to be different. Of course, this point is really weak, and doesn't actually prove anything. The gameplay would definitely work if Kris and the player were different, and in that case, the player would be the protagonist of the story, not Kris. That's why this point is weak, and doesn't disprove the theory or even challenge it. And that's basically all the points there is. You may get more information from the comments. I tried to include all the points made by the comments in here, but I didn't check the comments when making this reply, I just checked the text used in the video. People have included points for this theory that aren't in this reply in the comment section though, some of which I have countered or at least challenged. There's a lot of discussion in the comment section, so I would recommend checking it out if you really want to dig deep.

@@FastKnight401 Well I can assure the white eye thing is a pretty common, you could probably even look it up to find an article or 2 on it, if you choose to do that or just say I'm wrong I can't control though obviously. Kris walks weirdly without the soul because well, they're dying due not not having a soul? They put it back because they can only go so long without it. Why do they not immediately drop dead like Spamton? Well there could be multiple reasons for that one could be Spamton's strings and the soul could have some fundamental differences yet we're aware of yet while one still being reflective of the other, alternatively Kris is a Lighter while Spamton is a Darkner meaning Kris has determination while Spamton doesn't which is obviously a big separating factor between them and DT is shown be be quite the significant power. Meaning Kris could be able to survive for a short on it alone before inevitably needing to retrieve the soul. What makes you think the Dark World sprite change Kris' eye color? We've seen 4 lightners enter the dark world and for everyone it changes their outfit, and hair or skin color, their eyes remain the same so why would Kris be different? It sounds like you're more so making an arbitrary excuse to devalue proof against you than anything. What do you me by Kris smiling is unusual to how they act? Hearing about how Kris acts before the game starts from people in town or stories about them from the Spamton sweepstakes always seems to portray them as "creepy" and "mischievous" but down downright malicious. Kris smiling at is like that could just be to mock us as they show it is possible for them to act on their own accord. Susie and Ralsei have either never met Kris before the game or had very limited interaction with then, Noelle has known Kris for years even seeing aspects of Kris most people even Toriel doesn't know, so her saying Kris is actually entirely unnatural since chapter 1 should tell you something is up.

@@desestscourge6240 Your point on Kris walking weirdly without the soul: I already said this. Your point on Kris not falling down: I also said that. Your point on the dark world sprite: well, we have seen 4 lighteners enter the dark world and things do change. That's true. Now, you're saying their eyes remain the same, which actually isn't true. Berdly's eyes do change. It goes from white to green. This means it is possible for eye colours to change. Your point on Kris smiling: Kris smiling in itself may not be suspicious. But as I said, the more you look into it, the less it actually looks like a prank. The eyes in particular, help this point. Your point on Noelle knowing something is weird: while this is true, there's 2 problems. At the very least, Toriel would also see something wrong. You might say "she has", and while that's true, well, Toriel's reactions doesn't seem like something you would have when someone's entire personality changes. Kris got a friend and seems to be coming from school late. That's probably why she thinks something is wrong. Alphys also says "just lately?" like Kris is always weird. My point: no one has seen differences in Kris that can't be described as the things I said. People do wonder why Kris is all the sudden social, or why their bad at the piano, but the thing is, that could also be let off as "game logic". The reason? Well, the alternative is to make what you do now change what Kris has done before. This has its pros and cons, and ultimately, it's a choice Toby Fox would've had to make. It's harder to make it like this and for what? Just make a piece of the lore that doesn't exactly matter to most people make more sense, and maybe confusing people in the process? That time could be spent doing other things, like actually making the chapters, or working on the main story of the game. I guess another alternative would be to not reveal anything that happened before Deltarune. That has it's pro of, well, the lore makes more sense. But the problem would be that you're kind of limited in what you know. The lore makes more sense, but there's less of it. Undertale took the route of not revealing anything that happened before it, but Deltarune certainly didn't. It's a choice that would have to be made, and I don't think the use of this particular choice means anything in itself. You'd need other evidence, which there is, but again, there's also evidence against it, a lot of which would be major game design errors if the theory did end up being true.

Well, I do believe the popular theory isn't correct. The biggest reason being the game almost exclusively uses "you" when referring to Kris, which probably isn't what Toby Fox would do if he had this theory in mind. Yeah, my points do take some work to believe, but at the same time, I tried not to overthink everything. The popular theory also takes some thinking though, but the main reason I think people believe this is the "you whispered Noelle's name". Not sure though, as I wasn't playing the game when it was only chapter 1. Noelle does see Kris being weird, but that could be because, well, Kris entered a dark world. Or maybe Noelle never thought Kris would force her into doing things. She does state "since when did Kris get bossy". Or maybe it is player control. Ralsei and talking to Kris while we're in a cutscene definitely is something to think about. There is evidence that Ralsei does genuinely like to think of what people are doing when they're not around though. If we hug the dummy during chapter 2 (when you're supposed to get the stuff in the unused classroom), Ralsei and Susie know, which mean Ralsei is curious. Maybe it's just this moment, but it's something to keep in mind. Ralsei also seems to wonder what Susie was doing when we skip the cutscene in the snowgrave route, though it's worth keeping in mind that he doesn't wonder what Susie was doing when we skip it in the normal route. Just something to think about. I've seen the snowgrave route, but there's not much to say. There may be some hints towards this. The biggest one is the "you whispered Noelle's name" but this is the only time the "Kris" and "you" distinction is made. Why it says "you" here is hard to tell. Susie does see something off with Kris, but maybe because Kris forced someone into freezing their childhood friend. It is possible for this to be explained by "Kris doesn't want to do it". But then again, I did find a lot of points against this theory. Some of them may be overthinking it, but yeah, I do believe Kris and the player are the same. But even if the common theory is true, and Kris and the player are different, there's little chance Kris is actually in control in the ending cutscenes. More likely, Kris would be controlled by someone else, which would mean 2 people are fighting for control over Kris. We'll probably get a lot more information in chapters 3, 4 and 5 when they release though. Not sure if they'll prove/disprove the theory, but it'll explain more. We'll have to wait till the game completes to see for sure though. And I do prefer essays to smaller comments, since they explain more. Of course, I do recommend putting your points in paragraphs so it's easier to follow.

@@FastKnight401 The main reason people believe kris and the player are seperate entities is super complicated to explain because theres a lot, but ill try anyways: In chapter 1, Noelle points out that kris is surprisingly chatty, which is against their anti social behaviour mentioned by Rudy, implied by toriels shock at kris having a friend and the fact they haven’t been to many places since asriel left. alongside this, Rudy will call kris out if you check the name tag in his hospital, making fun of the idea that they wouldn’t know his name. playing the piano will get the secretary in the hospital a little concerned because kris is usually good at piano. while with chapter 2: Susie will joke about their lack of skill, which upsets kris. Chapter 1’s ending is the silver bullet of this chapter, as when kris rips out their soul and shoves it in the cage, using the movement keys will allow you to move the soul while kris’ movement is noticeably less strained than before the soul removal. Jevil on the other hand is a bit weird right now, but his belief on being the only free one will be important later. Now onto chapter 2, this one has a couple more hard hitters: Starting off with most of the games Dialogue options, something to note with them is characters reactions to your choices, specifically when they comment on Kris’ tone. Most notably: The final choice of chapter 2 and the post spamton NEO choice: When susie asks about who They’d take to the fair, three of the four choices has kris say it in a confused tone… except for susie: in which kris says it earnestly. which while seeming normal at a glance, becomes more concerning when you account for other dialogues options like the post spamton neo fight: During which, Susie and Ralsei point out that kris looks almost traumatised, susie asking directly if theyre okay. Saying yes will have them almost struggle to talk, while saying no will have them scream it out. these are the more obvious hints at something. but there are some more minor ones that i wanna point out: Picking “Gaming is my Passion” when talking to ralsei at the arcade machine will have them say it in a monotone voice. The Voice Noelle talks about if you visit her in snowgrave not even being Kris’ and the fact that voice persists when kris falls in battle. the point? Dialogue options lean into Kris having control of the tone but not what’s picked, alongside some of that being taken away in snow grave with the surprise voice that commands noelle. Character relationships. So to keep things simple: chapter 2 introduced an item called Character Teas, which is a tea that when drank will heal a certain amount of HP depending on the characters thoughts and feelings of the character that the tea represents. most Notably: Noelle with Kristea and Kris with RalseiTea When Noelle Drinks the KrisTea she’ll comment on them tasting like apples but having a strange aftertaste: which makes sense if there’s something else within Kris. while the ralsei tea when kris drinks it… heals the least out of any of the tea items alongside their reaction being… nothing. this doesn’t make sense if Kris and the player are the same simply because fan reception of ralsei was unanimous adoration when Chapter 1 released and hasn’t changed since. so when making chapter 2: why did toby and the team decide to make kris hate or not care about ralsei if the player and kris are one and the same and give the Kris tea a strange aftertaste for noelle: the only character to notice that something is wrong with Kris. Now to talk about Spamton. Spamton starts a theme with the puppet on a string imagry, with his motivation to get away from the strings that metaphorically (eventually literally) and become free, his plan to become powerful. his first on screen appearance being to convince kris that he can help them with something, using their similar situations to hook them in via relatability. This comes to a head in the NEO fight where spamton tries to appeal to kris with mentions of stuff like “Heart on a Chain” and whathaveyou, all of which seems to deeply disturb Kris in the end. In snowgrave, Noelle goes more in depth with the changes shes noticed in kris in the past couple days (Like Visiting Rudy and the whole route that just happened) alongside this the narration makes it first divergence from You = Kris with the end of the Spamton NEO fight. and that’s about it with the evidence i can recall from the top of my head. tldr: theres a lot of it and it paints a clear picture.

@@MahNamJeff When I said "main reason", I didn't mean "only reason". I'm not sure when or where this theory started, but I'm pretty sure the snowgrave dialogue was when the theory started and then people dug into it more. I could be wrong. First point about Kris being chatting: I actually don't know this part. And if it was true, I can't really challenge the point. Point about Kris checking his own name: I'm not exactly sure what this proves. Point about Kris being bad at the piano: I'm not sure if he's trying or not. Hard to say here, but I guess it's a valid point. Point about the end cutscene of chapter 1: the video already talked about this point. Point about tone: I'm not sure if this means too much, because the thing is, the game can't really account for every possible way people will say them, so Toby Fox kind of has to pick one and go with it. However, it does get weird that Kris says some things in a confused tone when asked about the fair. Not sure what it could be, so that's a strong point. The post Spamton NEO point doesn't really stand too much, because what happened with Spamton NEO probably was creepy. I'm not sure 100% what the game intended you to feel because I got spoilers, but it's safe to assume a lot of people would probably be creeped out about the basement. Of course, many people probably forgot because they were trying to beat Spamton, so it's not really a point to be ignored. But again, the game can't account for every possible thing, so this should be kept in mind. Point on Kris saying "gaming is my life": hard to say for sure what it is, but I guess the point stands. Point about Noelle talking about the voice, I'll split this in 2. First, Noelle saying it's a creepy voice: this point does stand. However, the point on Noelle still hearing their voice is a bit weak, since Noelle isn't the only one who can hear the voice while Kris is down. She's just the only one that seems to talk about it. This is because Kris being down doesn't make you lose control over what Susie and Ralsei do. However, Noelle seems to only talk about the "terrifying voice" in snowgrave, and only realizes it in the snowgrave route. Of course, it could be an oversight by Toby Fox. Except the fact that others can hear while Kris is down could just be let go as a gameplay thing, because otherwise, the fights (especially the secret bosses) would be incredibly difficult. Noelle does point it out though, and this doesn't seem like a casual 4th wall break. So it's worth keeping in mind. The character tea point: this point could stand. The problem, well, Toby Fox had to make a decision on Kris. Not everyone really has the same opinion, and he could've chosen anything, not just the popular choice. Of course, it is a bit weird that he chose this. It's not entirely confirmed whether the tea heals based off of their opinion on each of the characters, but it's safe to assume that based on what I have seen. Noelle did say that Kris was acting strange lately. This could be because, well, Kris is friends with Susie, and seems to disappear at random moments (the dark world). Or it could be player control as the theory suggests. The Spamton NEO thing could also be disturbing as Kris may be controlled only during the ending cutscenes, and someone else is controlling them. It doesn't have to be the player controlling them for Kris to be creeped out. And of course, the basement is kind of creepy, so let's not forget that. But this is just evidence for the theory. It does paint a clear picture, only if you look at these points. There is also evidence against the theory. Putting them together gives a not so clear picture. I did make the whole video on this, so I'm not going to repeat it in this comment. However, I do still feel my points still stand, as they haven't exactly been challenged (well, some of them have but a lot still stand). Most notably, the part of Kris' creepy expression at the chapter 1 cutscene which seems like more than a prank, the eye colour change in the said cutscene, and "you" being used almost exclusively when dialogue was hard coded.

@@FastKnight401 To explain the second point: If you check rudy’s name in the hospital, Rudy calls you out for it and questions how you forgot his name when you’re literally neighbors since childhood. with the secret bosses: Theyre all about Freedom. Spamron neo specifically is about him trying to cut free of his metaphorical and literal strings… but when he does he completely shuts down. alongside this, this is the only time kris is known to be disturbed in the entire game despite Giant robots, child murder, and jevil being meta existing, it is specifically spamton: The Puppet trying to escape and offering kris that freedom too, that throws them off. With the voice: Idk honestly, but the fact that only noelle points it out makes me think that maybe the voice during non snow grave stuff sounds more lile kris? its hard to tell for the time being because its only just shown up… so maybe its best to wait on that one For noelles comments on Kris: She specifically brings up how much more social they are than before, them actually visiting the hospital every day being the one that i recall the most. Its not them being absent that throws her off because kris is usually an antisocial prick, its the fact theyre actually around thats making her concerned because kris isn’t like that. Chapter 1 confirms this because everyone in hometown is shocked to see kris to some extent. But that’s about it for my clarifications and counter points, i already talked about the narration in a different comment thread here so i’ll leave it at that.

@@MahNamJeff First point regarding looking at Rudy's name: ok, fair point. Though looking at someone's name when you already know it isn't really unusual, well, I don't think it's unusual. I'm not sure if it really is, because I think I've done it before, but I'm not exactly sure. Secret bosses: fair point, but we've only seen 2 secret bosses so far, so a conclusion can't really be made. And "freedom" could have some other meaning. Not trying to say this point doesn't prove the theory, just trying to say the point doesn't necessarily point to the theory. Of course, that alone isn't enough, but I did make counter-points in other comment threads and the video, so I'll leave it there. Now, Kris did feel uneasy only during this point. I'm not really denying the Kris isn't being controlled though. My point is mostly we are the same as Kris, and someone else is controlling Kris. Specifically, in those ending cutscenes. Which by the way, I would actually believe those cutscenes weren't Kris being free from control even if I did believe the theory. How come? Well, Kris is probably not normal. The creepy face is probably not a prank, and the red eyes? Of course, Toby Fox doesn't have to follow the paradigm that "red eyes = evil" but the creepy face + red eyes is weird. And if it's not Kris being controlled, then what is it? I really don't know a better answer to this. You could say it's a prank, but it this seems more than a prank. Eye colours don't change randomly, and that was done on purpose. So yeah, either way, my opinion is that Kris isn't free from control in these cutscenes, regardless of whether the theory is true or not. If Kris and the player do end up being different, I would still argue that they're under control in those cutscenes (which would actually better explain why he's uneasy). In this case, the argument would be 2 people are fighting over control for Kris' body. For the voice: yeah, future chapters will definitely help make stronger points and might prove/disprove the theory. We'll have to wait and see. Noelle's comment on Kris: again, kind of fair point. The thing here is, all of this happened before the events of chapter 1 took place. Undertale was definitely trying not to reveal the events before it happened, but Deltarune isn't. With that being said, Toby Fox had an idea of what Kris was doing before the events of chapter 1. This doesn't exactly prove the theory, mainly because there's no better alternative. Ok, saying "no better alternative" isn't really the right way to say it. You could make the prior events change based on your current events, but that might confuse the community. It has its pros and cons. Pros being the character seems more like you, but the cons being it's much more complicated for you and the community. Toby Fox could have though that it wasn't worth the effort and did this. That's why I say "kind of fair point", because in a perfect world, that would make sense. A game world, however, is not a perfect world. However, the lore never disproves this point, so it's not impossible either. With that being said, I think the final conclusion here is that we don't really have enough information. There's evidence for both sides, so we basically have to wait for the other chapters to release. With that being said, my opinion still hasn't changed, but feel free to disagree. I'm not really here to change opinions, just have discussions, since I do want to know more about this topic.

I'm not exactly sure what this means and how it would work.

@@FastKnight401that’s honestly the best way I can explain it, it’s like those diagrams in school that like the two circles with like that one spot with the similarities in between them but all the differences in their own area uhhhhhh At least I think that’s what I was trying to say I don’t remember T-T I didn’t watch the full video while writing it so I Might be completely wrong

Well, here's a few things to keep in mind. 1. The video assumed the overworld sprites would change expressions at things, which is usually not the case, so this specific point doesn't really stand. 2. The video was mainly trying to say that Kris' normal expression was not happening here. We've only ever seen one expression. But the biggest thing here (I never really mentioned in the video), the smile is a very creepy smile. Definitely not something someone would normally have. The red eyes are also there, which makes the main point here, the fact that Kris definitely isn't in control when they rip out their soul, still stand. But yeah, this one point in the video doesn't really stand. Even then, I feel the main point in the video (Kris and the player are the same) still stands.

@@FastKnight401 The red eyes also show up during the entrance animation for the dark world, briefly. Also Kris could just be making that expression to try to scare you for fun, y'know. They are literally a known prankster.

@@lillyofthegalley The eyes are white at the start of the cutscene. While it does show up briefly, that could be a dark world difference, as the entire appearance of characters do change in the dark world, and the red eye is only shown during the dark world form of Kris (other than ending cutscenes). They are a known prankster, so maybe that could be the reason they're smiling. Or maybe it's something else. It's impossible to know exactly why they're smiling right now, but the eyes seem like the biggest evidence that Kris isn't in control when they rip out their soul.

@abdelhaditayebbey -a: this isn't a theory, this is countering a theory.- (edit: what was I saying, this is definitely a theory) b: you haven't challenged/disproved my points, you're just saying "it's wrong"

@@FastKnight401 We can't disprove your points because they aren't points to begin with. So far your points are: "We are always able to control the soul, so us being able to move it in this cutscene doesn't mean much" It means something because kris has forcefully removed it from their body and put it in a place where it can't access them, and we the player are now controlling the soul itself, independent of kris. "Th walk" I had always just assumed that going against your literal SOUL's specific instructions to go to sleep and moving on your own is pretty hard, thus the odd walk. "Kris wouldn't do that !! And they made a creepy face so clearly they're possessed!!" *We literally know almost nothing about their personality and cannot prove one way or another whether they would do that.* "Erm, the eye is WHITE during the ripping soul out animation! Therefore kris is being controlled to do that!" Or, y'know, it could just be like that to emphasize Hey, ripping your soul out kinda hurts like hell, and to add more emphasis on the red eye reveal. "Why would kris put their soul back in if that's what's allowing us to control them" *It's their soul, that's kinda important.* "Spamton falls immeditely witout string tehrefor how kris mofe witout soul" Ok sure because a robotic darkner and a human lightner TOTALLY work exactly the same. Plus spamton got his STRINGS cut, not his soul removed. (also, note, the pie WASN'T finished in the time it took for kris to go outside and come back, this is literally pointed out if you read the dialogue) "The soul coming to susie during the lancer fight is purely a game design thing" Toby literally stated on the ch1 livestream that it was intentional. And if you wanna say "It's just game design", then your point about narration can ALSO be chalked up to just being game design. "Erm SUSIE can't hear kris when we're far away so noelle hearing is is irrelevant" Susie didn't go through the snowgrave route. "narration narration difference between kris and player isn't always stated yadda yadda" 1. Toby most likely doesn't feel like differentiating kris and the player in *literally every line of narration in the game.* 2. To convince you that you are kris for the sake of the twist. 3. It's literally just narration. "Why would you go to sleep if kris did!!" Because you're playing as them. "The point of a story-based game is that YOU are the protagonist, your choices are supposed to matter, that' why toby made undertale !!" 1. Undertale and deltarune are different games, toby has made that abundantly clear. 2. Even IN undertale the seeds for the distinction between player character and player were already planted. Frisk declares their own name at the end of the game, and post-game Flowey tells YOU to "Let frisk live their life" 3. Your choices still matter, but the literal point of the game is that you aren't kris. Hell, even then there's evidence toward the distinction theory that you are completely ignoring to give your own explanation for: 1. Kris acting confused during the ch2 ending dialogue if you say you'd go to the festival with anyone other than susie. If we literally WERE kris, WHY would they feel confused about *any* of the choices we make? 2. Kris being known for being good at the piano and losing all of that skill the moment we play as them. So far your "debunking" is purely things that literally can't be *proven* to be evidence one way or another.

Well, it's possible for Kris to change their facial expression, but Kris hasn't done it for like, 2 entire days. And that smile definitely is creepy. Probably not normal Kris. The point here was to say it wasn't normal. As for your point on Susie not hearing while Noelle hearing, that's true but Kris is also down in fights. The point was how come Susie wasn't able to hear us but Noelle is? Someone else in the comment section did point out that Susie did hear something, but couldn't exactly make out what it was, which is a fair point. Fights would also kind of require this to exist if you didn't want fights to become insanely difficult, so it's not necessarily lore. Not saying it can't be lore, I'm just saying it doesn't have to be lore. Us falling asleep when Kris falls asleep brings an inconsistency. When Kris rips out their soul, that means we probably shouldn't see anything, since the connection between Kris and the soul is severed when that happens. Either that, or we don't fall asleep when Kris does. This isn't complete evidence, since the point of Kris ripping out their soul was for a cutscene, but we can't really ignore it either. Could you please elaborate on what you mean when you say "everything about the weird route"? I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The fact that it exists and everything that takes place isn't specific enough. And to wrap this up, I do feel the main point of the video still stands. Although the first and second points I made in this comment could be challenged, they haven't really been disproved, and there's lots of points in the video that were left untouched.

@@FastKnight401 it was 1 day, well, technically a couple hours, but whatever. and also, almost every major character in the game changes their expression everytime they talk, but the overworld sprite doesn't change i don't remember what you said nor do i care to rewatch the video to find out, but you already spoke about how they can hear us when krispy is down fair point and i don't care enough to dissect everything toby fox has ever done to make a counter argument lol aight this one's gonna be a lot. kris probably doesn't want to do the weird route. i know i wouldn't want to, but i mean, kris could be a psychopath. but in the weird route, almost, or literally every difference between the normal and weird routes are a result of our actions. and kris (still assuming they're sane) doesn't want to do this. and this is gonna give me chara flashbacks, but we're the ones actively doing this to the world. unlike chara though, the argument that "it was kris telling noelle to do it, not us" is even less stable than the "chara was telling frisk to do it" argument, because toby made it very very clear that we're doing this. there are several ways to back out of the route, and i'm sure if kris had a say in it, they would back out on every opportunity. but alas, we're the ones to choose to bully noelle into forgetting to take the chicken out of the freezer. because we're choosing the option, and i swear to god if someone makes some dogshit excuse that "JUstB eucase WE prESsed ThE BuTon doSNEt meAN itS canON" like they did with chara i will fucking lose it. again, don't care enough to watch a 2 hour long walkthrough of the weird route to point out every little thing, but the evidence is there.

The only counter-point I've found in this reply was "every character doesn't change their expression", which, fair point. That smile at the end is still some super psychotic smile. Not what I'd expect Kris to normally have if they really didn't want to do snowgrave. So maybe Kris does want to do snowgrave. To which my answer is, this video and the comments in it. There's so many points left untouched, which if you really want to disprove my argument, you're probably going to want to try to counter them. Especially the ones that directly counter the theory, and not just the points. And to talk about your text wall about the snowgrave route, it doesn't actually prove anything. It actually doesn't contain evidence against my argument. All it says is "Kris doesn't want to do the route, we're forcing them" but it doesn't actually prove it. Even if Kris and the player were different, it wouldn't prove that Kris doesn't want to do snowgrave. So I still feel the main point of the video stands.

@@FastKnight401 its getting progressively harder and harder to reply to this i just want to move on with my day so like you win i guess cool yay you get bragging rights or something

They aren't scared to go against the majority, sometimes the general consensus is literally JUST right.

I mean, the game blatantly makes "Kris and the player are separate entities" clear on numerous occasions.

@@lillyofthegalley Yeah that’s fair. I still think it can be fun tackling theories like this even if it isn’t correct. Just trying to look at everything from a lot of different angles and then deciding what makes the most sense. If Kris ≠ The Player makes the most sense, so be it.

I don’t believe people is afraid of making theories. Is because is strongly implied. Is not like set in stone but it is clearly insinuated.

@@MoRPho151 I myself have had more than a few comments downvoted to oblivion on Reddit for voicing opinions and musings about this possibility, coupled with some rather harsh replies from those who are not particularly keen on this idea that Kris is perhaps just a player character.

Saying "Kris is our vessel" actually does explain a some of the points. It would explain why Kris going to sleep makes the player go to sleep. However, it's still challenged by the fact that when Kris rips out their soul, the connection to the vessel is broken. From here, you would assume we wouldn't be able to see anything since there's no way to see it. Of course, the point is actually to make a cutscene, so this point doesn't entirely disprove Kris being our vessel. However, it would make more sense if we see a blackout. But the point was really to show Kris creating a fountain (in chapter 2 at least), so we have to keep that in mind. And this does explain why the camera doesn't follow Kris when Kris rips out their soul. The fact that Kris has a save file before it's overwritten is a fair point. This theory does explain this, and I'm not sure what else it could be. I don't really have any counter to this point. Kris blocking the king's attack on their own is also a fair point. It's possible to let this off as "game logic". However, the lore never counters this point directly, so it does point towards the theory. Kris moving weirdly definitely could be explained by the fact that they don't have their soul or they're fighting against our control, and I did put it in the video. But yes, it is a valid explanation for why Kris is moving weirdly. Susie reacting to what we're saying but not being able to hear us is a fair point. It does bring an interesting point of discussion though. Other people can hear us while Kris is down, but not when they're far away from Kris. This doesn't really prove much though, since characters hearing us while Kris is down is likely a game design thing. Noelle does bring up the fact that she can still hear Kris and "a terrifying voice" though, so it's still relevant. And the ending point, Susie or someone else can't be the protagonist since the game doesn't really follow them. The player, however, can be the protagonist. The game does follow Kris mostly, but it's the player that has the most control over what happens in this story. They can change pretty much everything except the ending. That would point towards the player being the main protagonist, and the game would still be interesting with this theory. So the last point I made in the video doesn't really stand. With that being said, I still feel the main point of the video stands, since there are many points that are left untouched (as you already mentioned). Even then, this comment was helpful, as it does go more into the points. And, to let you know, I do prefer longer comments to smaller comments most of the times since they usually go into more detail, and they'll likely help more if I decide to make a follow up video. I would recommend putting your points in paragraphs though, so it's easier to follow.

@@FastKnight401 ill keep that in mind lol also maybe instead of being directly possessed, kris is just kind of carrying the soul with them? then it would still kind of be like 2 different people, but that would explain why we dont blackout. then again, that directly contradicts what i said about why we fall asleep in chapter 2, so it doesnt work either way. i did however notice when kris rips our soul out in the bathroom and on the couch, we are unable to move the soul, which strengthens your point, but it is strange that it only happens after chapter 1. as for our members being able to hear us when kris is down, i completely agree on the fact its game logic, since without that it would take away the players control and/or make the battles much harder. susie not being the protagonist makes sense, but if not the protagonist she would have to be one of the main characters in some way other than being one of the 3 main party members. otherwise, it wouldn't make sense to show cutscenes of just her out of the 3, while kris and ralsei talk. as for the player, i am curious if we end up getting a different vessel, what would happen to kris, because it almost seems like they need us, as they keep putting the soul back in. also, forgot that you put the moving weird in the video, my bad! once we get more cutscenes we'll probabl;y be able to come to a better conclusion on why they're walking like that.

The fact that we can control the soul in the chapter 1 cutscene is an interesting point of discussion. I'm also not sure why it would be controlled in chapter 1, but not in chapter 2, regardless of whether this theory is true or not. It definitely is weird. I do agree that Susie is probably one of the main characters along with Ralsei and Kris. These are probably the 3 main characters throughout the story, while each chapter may have additional characters for those chapters. That's what I think will happen, since that's what we saw with chapter 2. People do state that Ralsei and Kris have a discussion during the cutscenes. This does make sense, since Ralsei does say some dialogue that doesn't really make sense to the context. However, there is evidence that Ralsei is genuinely interested in what people are doing when he isn't around. In chapter 2 (when you're supposed to get the stuff in the unused classroom), when you hug the dummy while "no one is watching", Ralsei and Susie both know you hugged the dummy. Ralsei also seems interested in what Susie was doing during the snowgrave route, when the cutscene was skipped. However, when the cutscene is skipped in the normal route, Ralsei doesn't wonder what was going on, which is weird. And what Ralsei says after the cutscenes seems pretty unrelated to the cutscenes, which is kind of weird. I'm not sure why he would say "so that's why" or something like that to those cutscenes. It's not really in context. It's hard to say for sure what's going on when these 2 information are put together, as one suggests Ralsei is looking at Susie with us, while the other suggests he was instead, having a conversation with Kris. Regarding your curiosity on what would happen if we get a different vessel, it probably wouldn't do much to Kris. If this theory does end up being true, that would mean there was a time Kris was there without the player. That would basically mean Kris regains full control. The soul is likely Kris' soul regardless of whether the theory is true or not, since it's safe to assume all humans have souls in deltarune, similar to undertale. We'll probably get more information in the future chapters that'll answer more of the questions. We'll probably get better conclusions on every question once more chapters are completed.

@@FastKnight401 Oh, I didn't think you could skip the susie cutscene on the normal route, but maybe I'm wrong about that. also in theory kris could have our soul and their soul in the same vessel, but theres a good chance not, too. thanks for debating with me, i like when i actually get counterarguments!

@@DailyDeltaNews you're welcome. It's been a while since I've had an actual peaceful discussion in the youtube comments actually.

I got tired of "The earth is round" getting shoved into my face

@@lillyofthegalley I got tired of anything and everything

@@lillyofthegalley wdym he gives very good arguments in the video about We and Kris are the same. (theory that player is controlling Kris without Kris wanting that kind of ruins the game experience). Imagine if there was a theory like "dark worlds arent real and it all kris's imagination and dream" even if there were many arguments pointing to that theory, it would ruin the game experience so much.

@@manykarto2629 If you wanna find my counterpoints to Kris and the player being the same, just search through the comments section man, I don't feel like repeating them right now.

@@manykarto2629 But just in general, no, his points suck ass, and no matter how many points you counter his response is always "Oh but you can't disprove AAAALLL my points, just MOST of them!"

it's been done though (not by me)

also, solo expert was done by someone else th-cam.com/video/f9PNz5jT3k8/w-d-xo.html

By kulyk, right?