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Hardened leather scales like on a brigandine... probably a lot. Properly cured hardened leather is a beast and one of the biggest arguments against hardneded/glued linen armor). It's been a looong time since I did this test, but if I did it again and had my current budget I'd definitely test out different methods of protection. Sadly, if I recall from my research (which I did a ton of at the time), we only have reliable information on a few things from that era. We know the size, shape and mass of the arrow heads and roughly the mass and velocity of the arrows with arrowhead. Sadly most of the actual armor samples degrade over time... they literally just rot/decay, especially the less expensive stuff issued to your regular infantry guy. That said, I do recall people finding samples of leather and linen armor from the 3rd and 4th century bce. I'd probably develop a test campaign based on that, historical imagery and what we know about armor from bordering regions and similar time-frames.... so early Roman leather armor which I'm pretty sure we have more evidence of.

It's easy to forget how long ago this stuff actually dates to. We all know the "dates", but it really puts things into perspective when you consider many old battlefields and cities are now 15-20ft or more under the ground. I want to say the old Royal Quarter Alexandria, Egypt (somethingn like 25 cities were renamed that during his reign lol), the portion founded by Alexander, is around 25-30ft UNDER the current city. So, point being, it's incredibly hard to find stuff from this period.... thank God some folks preserved art and writings from the time and shortly thereafter. To your point though - if I were some soldier, I'd do whatever it took to survive, especially if I was a Macedonian phalanxman without shield... wearing only my tube and yolk armor (linen or leather). You'd see me boiling leather and slapping all kinds of extra protection on it... I imagine troops of the era did the same. I'd be fighting for the belly hide of every cow and horse we slaughtered 😂

@@Hokie2k11 Thanks for the replies! 👍👍

In hindsight, that's a fair assessment lol. At the time, it felt like a perfectly normal thing to do on the outskirts of Blacksburg, VA. Things are... or at least were... a little different down there.

That's an intersting observation and one that was born out in testing. I didn't post the video of it when I made this so many years back, but there was an interesting dynamic when it got wet from weather (and may have exhibited similiar characteristics due to insane sweat?). When it was dry, it was more rigid, so even with a softer leather core, it had great stopping power against piercing as well as resisted full swings from a baseball bat. However, when it was wet it would swell some, the thickness increasing and it becoming more pliable. While the arrows pierced further and it weighed more, it also had the benefit of being thicker (so could absorb more arrowhead before reaching the core of medium leather) as well as more flexible... more comfortable to move in. So, wet or dry, it performed well.... for different reasons.

Appreciate it. Yeah, this was 13-14 years ago - assembled it as part of an undergraduate research project. Worked with what I had on a students budget. Tried to use all the legit materials but time and money was always a thing. As for the velocity - I can't remember everything that had me decide those were the right numbers to replicate, but every aspect of this was historically researched to be as accurate as possible (given my limitations). I think part of it was that we have semi-reliable (ish?) data on how far the bows could shoot, you can roughly infer the velocity at release, especially if you also have reliable data on the dimensions, composition and mass of the arrow (so enough to assess how well it retains velocity throughout its flight, which i feel like is over 90% for 4th century BC trilobat tipped arrows)... but its been over a decade), which we definitely do. That said, again, I was a student on a budget and had a tight schedule to meet.... I'm sure someone else (to include myself now) could do an even better test without those limitations. I know I love coming on youtube and watching those types of videos, love em, even if most focus on metal armor as opposed to the linen, leather and alternatives (eg wood)!

I'll say this - against something like a more modern (historically speaking) recurve or English longbow, none of this armor would stand up without something extra. I think it would have been a nice type of armor to have in all weather, especially hot and humid (it only got more flexible), and was super easy to patch, it had its limits. That said, I later tried it with a thicker, hardened leather core/tube with the same layers and it entirely stopped the trilobat tipped arrows, even with a FULL strength modern hunting bow - that surprised the shit out of me.

You need for make it. Depending on the part of the armor in question, it's between 15-25 layers of historically accurate linen, bonded with the animal based glue used at the time. You can add even more protection if you line the inside with hardened leather.

@@Hokie2k11 It would be really cool, it would be very difficult to do it for an inexperienced like me, do you know if anyone can forge this linen army?

@@Hokie2k11 I hope you answer me, I would be very curious and happy to be able to have a linothorax

No brainer for that price (3780 is essentially $2800 usd, what I paid). And yes, I think it will definitely last. It feels more robust than my past Acer Predator and Asus ROG laptops. I go as far as keeping mine in quiet mode or hybrid mode whenever Im just doing work (I telework 8-10 hours a day, mostly on this laptop now). Hybrid and quiet mode allows the computer to run whisper silent, super cool and it uses the integrated graphics instead of the 4090 unless absolutely required. This means it'll lead to an even longer-lasting 4090 card.

I'm not much of a video creator, but I will string together a bunch of benchmarks this weekend into one video like I did for the above. So far its been a great laptop, very happy I went with this over the SCAR 17 4090 (or 4080 which was the same price). Key board requires a little more force.... more initial resistance than I like, but I can deal with it, it otherwise feels very high quality. Screen is bright and has been flawless. Fan noise.... quite loud if you are running full out. My wife heard it 40ft away and wondered what was going on. I usually game in optimized mode, perhaps even quiet if its an older game.... whisper quiet under those conditions. I do highly recommend saving the money from buying a 2tb version since some people had 2 1tb installed via raid 0 - makes upgrading a pain. Just get the 1tb and buy a 2tb 980 pro, install in the open slot and you'll have 3tb for the price of 2.

Reality is an illusion. Believe what you want.

or shot

This 'historical' terminology was undoubtedly accepted and used in some cultures, in certain time periods, but it certainly was not a universal term in archery. Over the millenia, many cultures developed bows independently. We simply have no way of knowing all the terminology used. Yet today, anyone not versed in archery terms will say the equivalent of "fire", and everyone will understand what they mean.

@@another3997 'fire' being die to firing the charge in a firearm. The terminology doesn't translate to a bow

Remember that the linen was to be bonded together. If it was bonded together the resulting composite would be very hard to pierce with any knife or sword.

Agreed - I would have done many things differently had I had the time. When I made this I was under quite the time crunch, my main concern was getting to a point where I could actually commence with penetration and blunt force testing. I do however feel like I chose the aesthetics of the binding based on some artwork from the era, so there is some basis for the way it is rigged. But yes, had I more time I would have found a more secure method for rigging the yoke.

@@Hokie2k11 I understand a time crunch somewhat, but functionality (if ever needed) would always be my main goal with any project concerning armor or weapons, barring the need of historical wall hangers of course.....Thx for the vid.

The material was probably waxed to make it water repellent.

I wondered this myself after I did the testing in the video. In addition, I wanted to know if excessive perspiration, from the inside out if you will, made a difference. To test this I wore the armor for hours at a time on several occasions, during which time I performed exercises, yard work, and walking (yes, I looked goof) in both good and bad weather (light-medium rain for extended periods). The armor definitely retained water from both the perspiration and rain... but not as much water as you'd expect. I attribute this primarily to the fact that the generous amount of glue I used saturated the linen before the rain. It also dried faster than expected, likely for the same reason - not as much water had been absorbed. Finally, I did some post exercise/rain testing. The results were almost identical to the ones in the video, except in a couple locations where it appears the armor faired even better when wet. I'm guessing this has to do with it absorbing the energy of the arrow better before giving... better bend than break if you will. The only thing I didn't test was blunt impacts while wet - I don't imagine it would fair as well there as it did when it was dry.

Etienne Ouellet not true, arrows can pierce it , that why people used the bronze shield (Aegis)

Thanks, appreciate it. A bronze sword would probably cut into the linen and leather, but not through it. A bronze sword thrust into it - it'd go straight through it. Same goes for a spear. BUT, this goes for most armor - most armor simply isn't designed to defeat thrusting attacks from weapons like swords and spears. It's one of the reasons maces are so damn effective - you get the piercing effect of a thrust with a slashing attack. It is however EXTREMELY effective at absorbing blunt attacks. My brother played collegiate baseball. I had him take a pretty good whack at me in the chest while I was wearing it. Same for attacks to the sides. As for who would make it... it's been a while since I did research into this but I recall there being different methods of acquiring it based on who you were and when you are talking about. The Greeks were citizen soldiers, I believe many of them owned their own armor and weapons. The Macedonians however, under Alexander, had a standing army... a pretty sizable one at that. They had a standing army and garrisons in dozens of cities. Those soldiers most certainly did not pay for their armor, and I do recall reading something in Plutarch to that effect. Also, it would not necessarily be cheap to make, but it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive. The real advantage to this armor is that its easy to repair, maintain, and becomes flexible as you sweat... and it doesn't lose much of its defensive properties in the process (perhaps less effective against blunt I suppose). It's not difficult to make at all, you just need a bunch of flax linen and glue. Linen wasn't cheap, but it wasn't rare either.

@@Hokie2k11 Hmm.. well I wouldn't imagine it would be very accessable for lots of men who became soldiers.. There were lots of men who went to battle with a bronze plate on their chest and little else. The citizen soldiers of greece had land if I'm not mistaken but it didn't prevent you from being a soldier as long as you didn't live in Spartan lands. You wouldn't be permitted amongst the hoplites, but I imagine you could form part of a skirmisher unit. Armour was always the most expensive part of your kit. All of this though, doesn't stop this armour from being extremely interesting!

From what I understand arrow volleys were closer since arrows actually lose velocity if shot at long distance, as well as range. Also since Alexanders phalanxes rely on heavy shields the armor seems more likely to have been a secondary measure rather than the primary protection

@@bmxdoe I'll have to go look into my research at some point, but I recall more than one source stating that the velocity of arrows fired by English longbows retained as much as 90% of their velocity on impact, despite the huge distance and massive arc. This may not be a perfect carry over to ancient times, but it seemed like a nice starting point and the basis for me choosing a test velocity.

Angle of the shot would definitely have an effect here and not something I considered. Why? I was thinking worse case scenario and only had so many shots before I completely trashed my pride and joy :) I figured that the 'effective' thickness is higher for angled shots, so my straight on tests were what one would have to encounter if soldiers were engaged up close and personal. I figured that if they could survive up close and personal than they'd survive angled shots from a distance. In the end though the armor did its job. They may have penetrated some, but none would have been a kill shot. If I had to go through this test myself, I can tell you what I would do - I'd just wear some type of fur or layering that separated the armor from my body by about 1/3 to 1/2 of an inch. After all, it wasn't as if something inside the armor stopped the arrows from going deeper, there was nothing more than a pillow inside - all of those arrows were stopped by the armor.

@@Hokie2k11 they are very heavy though.

Not really. There have only ever been even a few samples of the material found, let alone a complete example. It's difficult to say how they would have made it, but I don't think they would have used more than one layer of leather. At that point you might just consider making it entirely out of leather. If anything, I could see someone trying to make it entirely out of linen. I did however use leather, but only for the core and trimmings, and it wasn't a terribly thick piece of leather. My goal was to create a piece of armor that was flexible, not obscenely heavy, did not require hours and hours of stitching, and could be repaired in the field. In this respect I succeeded.

Correct. However, testing has revealed that arrows fired at long range retain as much as 90% of their initial velocity on impact. So, when I conducted my test I fired it with approximately 10% higher velocity than you would expect from a typical bow of the era. Also, I intentionally aimed at the various parts of the armor. I wanted to get as many samples as possible. I was 30-40ft away - if I wanted I could have stuck every arrow in the center plate (any one halfway decent with a bow can do the same).

@@Hokie2k11 If you really wanted to, you could use a bow that has an arrow velocity at 30ft away similar to the arrow velocity of a bow of the age at a distance common in warfare.

Spandex*

Crusader of the Low Lands Very funny, I laughed at this original joke

​@@sharkgun2716 Really? With so many people who're alive and who have lived, you don't think multiple people can come up with the same joke without having heard it before?

Crusader of the Low Lands refer to my original comment

His was probably reenforced with bronze scales

With a compound bow you get better scientific results, since the draw weight will be very consistent. Thank you for this presentation and your work. If you ever cared to repeat it with the TH-cam ballistic standard of pork ribs and orange stuffing, I'd be interested in if these penetrating arrows lose depth of penetration. There's also the fact your shots are worst-case for the target. Shots falling onto the target in plunging fire may be more this armor's intention to defeat. Even so, it seems a good flak-jacket for the common grunt.

I can't recall the manufacturer, but the bow was your typical adjustable compound hunting bow. However, the important thing is to make sure you have the right arrow of the correct weight and with the correct arrow head leaving the bow at the right velocity. I used a variety of arrows, but I would focus primarily on the Scythian trilobat. Before firing, I adjusted the draw weight (force) of the bow to ensure I had the right velocity.

Bows back then weren't the super powered ones found later on, like in the middle ages.

That gave me a good laugh. Thanks a bunch! :)

Also, on a sidenote. Would it stop the ultimate super-weapon of the medieval world, The Katana? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this deep philosophical subject.

Man... The Katana is just another sword. It isnt better in anyway whatsoever. It doesnt cut more, it doesnt pierce more... It is just too much oversold. (That being said, The Katana is one of my favorite swords, but it isnt a superweapon.) In fact, Samurai used more spears, polearms and bows more often than swords. The Swords was the last ditch weapon. A good spearman could just kill you faster and better than another swordsman... But its the perfect weapon if you want a quick draw and stuff like that.

Melanrick 'kill you faster and better' huh

@KunTao Lai Lai In the "peaceful" edo period the katana/wakizashi were like a badge saying " i work for the shogun dont mess with me ! if you do i will cut you in half to forgive you" .

Well hardened leather

Show your research to back up your claims. Define point blank range. Why would they be be turning their body whilst coming toward you or moving away? Shields can be damaged and become unusable, or even be wrestled from you in combat. They can only point in one direction at a time, which may not be the direction the arrow comes from. Care to change your mind?