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FRANK SOOS
Canada
เข้าร่วมเมื่อ 9 พ.ย. 2014
KEF 104/2 Restoration
Restoration includes:
Replacing the donut Surrounds on the 8" Woofers;
Replacing the Tweeters (with modification to the speakers);
Replacing the Capacitors.
This is my personal experience at restoring these British speakers.
After 3 decades, they once again sound like new.
Many thanks to my wife for providing the voice over.
Replacing the donut Surrounds on the 8" Woofers;
Replacing the Tweeters (with modification to the speakers);
Replacing the Capacitors.
This is my personal experience at restoring these British speakers.
After 3 decades, they once again sound like new.
Many thanks to my wife for providing the voice over.
มุมมอง: 97 211
Why did you need to feel like you had to change the tweeters what's wrong with the ones you had before or the originals??
Hi. The original ones were no longer working (not sure why). They were replaced by a third party over 20 years ago. Wish I still had them and I would have replaced the fluid in them. The ones I replaced in the video were also not working and needed replacing. Long story, short.
Thank you very much for your great video!! I started to restore my 104/2 cause of it and already ordered the tweeters and a refoam kit. I hope you can help me with one question: Do you know how to replace the midrange drivers without damaging anything cause one of mine is broken and i can't find informations about that in the net. Thanx a lot!
Hi and thank you for your kind note. I am sorry to say that I have never replaced the midrange drivers. I would encourage you to keep looking on the net. I would not be surprised if there is a group out there dedicated to these speakers. Good luck.
@@franksoos2937 Thank you for your reply! Sadly I have to change the baffle, cause it's not possible to change only one midrange driver on the older 104/2.
@@harrythehaggler7103 That's too bad. Hope it all works out for you.
You don't need to replace tweeters. Originals can be repaired. There are many guides how to do this.
Thanks for your comment. You are correct. Unfortunately, the original tweeters were already replaced with non OEM tweeters long before I did this restoration.
Wow never saw anyone use a big weller solder-gun on a pc board before.. he's got skill not to burn it. but not the best way to teach, as a smaller iron much more suited to the job. A nice restore there and i'm sure they sound great !
Thanks for submitting your comment. Noted on the big Weller soldering gun. Unfortunately it was the only one I had and so I made the best of it. And yes, the KEFs sounded amazing! It was a treat to get them working again. Cheers!
Thank you for the video.
Thank you for your comment. Hope it can be of some use.
Yea really I dont even have these speakers and I watched the whole video hehe. I have a pair of Energy 22 pro and was looking for videos and ended up watching this.
Thanks for your comments, hope this may be of some help.
Very informative video instruction. thank you Mrs. Frank Soos, well illustrated and videoed. congratulations. Now the big move is to do exactly on my ket 104.2 restoration.
Thank you for your kind comments. Good luck on your restoration. Go slow and take it one step at a time. I was no expert when I restored our speakers and it worked out quite well. You may also find some helpful tips in the comments below. Cheers!
Thanks for this, I have a set that is suffering the same as yours, Could you please pass on the details of where you bought the parts from, I am OK with the capaciors, but the rest of the gear I could do with finding a supplier., Thanks for the great video,.
Thank you for your kind comment. Here are the links to where I got the supplies. I included all the links in case others would like to know. Good luck with your project. Foam Surround: www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/morel-soft-dome-tweeters/morel-mdt29-4-4-ohm-textile-dome-tweeter/ Rubber Grommets: www.midwestspeakerrepair.com/shop/speaker-repair-kits/rubber-grommets-for-kef-104-2-105-3-woofers-12-pack/ Capacitors: www.falconacoustics.co.uk/kef-104-2-replacement-capacitor-set.html Morel MDT29-4 (4 ohm) Tweeter: www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/morel-soft-dome-tweeters/morel-mdt29-4-4-ohm-textile-dome-tweeter/
Very good work to restore this pair of vintage speakers. By the way, why not upgrade all the internal wiring as well? Also upgrade the small value capacitors to GAD or Mundorf?
Thanks for your comment. All the wires appeared to be in very good shape. From what I researched, it was mainly the electrolytic capacitors that needed to be replaced given their age. And honestly, I never even considered changing anything else. Good consideration for anyone else wanting to do a restoration.
This is a great video! Any idea if doping the doughnut keeps them from drying out the same way as the original?
Hi and thank you for your kind comment. I am unfamiliar with doping the donut. I am only aware that the sealer I applied in the video is a way to preserve the donut. That is not to say that there are other, and possibly better, ways of doing the same job. Cheers.
Yes, the sealer. Is there any evidence that it will make them last longer. I'm about to change the donuts on a pair of 103/3 and I'm curious if it will make them last a bit longer.
MidWest Speaker Repair has direct T33 tweeter replacements available. No modification to the cabinet required as with the Morels. Speaker grilles can be re-covered as needed as well, with speaker cloth from Amazon, and some 3M Super 77 spray adhesive. Speaker binding posts can also be replaced with posts from Dayton Audio, or Amazon. If you have the bi-wire 104/2 models, be aware that you will need a slightly different set of capacitors from Falcon, so let them know you have bi-wire speakers, or just pull the networks out, and write down a list of the caps you'll need, and let them know. The bi-wire speakers used different crossover networks from the two-post models. I encountered this when restoring my bi-wire models (have done 3 pair thus far over the past 20 years)
Thank you so much for this info. I'm sure this will help anyone wishing to install T33 tweeters, speaker cloth, binding posts and/or capacitors. Thank you again for your contribution. Best.
As of 2023, capacitor kit (2 speakers) runs about $200 shipped to the US. Inner and outer surround replacement kit is about $80 (2 sp.) ferrofluid replacement is about $20, MidWest direct replacement tweeters are $45 each, and speaker binding posts can run from $15 to $80 (set of 4) so a full restoration will run between $300 and $400.
If I still had the original T33 tweeters, I would have replaced the ferrofluid (also less expensive). Thank you for the info, it's appreciated.
hi the quality kef from the 80s, incredible age, unfortunately today it is no longer the case.
It is truly amazing the quality of speakers KEF was able to produce over 40 years ago. Thank you for your comment.
This is a great guide, but a couple of thoughts from someone who has restored two pairs of these. Firstly, replacing the T33 stock tweeters should only considered (IMO) where the original tweeters have blown. I have read various reports that people prefer the sound of the original tweeters, a simple ferrofluid replacement is an addition to your procedure above, and takes about 30 minutes per tweeter, Secondly, I never did the cap replacement in the crossovers and I also researched this extensively. These caps are very well built and its arguable they dont actually need replacing. The two pairs of speakers I did still sounded great without this (and I am generally a fan of recapping amplifiers). The other issue is that the caps you need can only be obtained from falcon acoustics in the UK and they can be VERY hard to deal with and are often out of stock of values, or send you the wrong parts.
Hi and thank you for your comments. I would like to reply to your greats thoughts. The stock tweeters; These blew long before I did the restoration. Before I really knew anything, I took them into a audio shop and they simply replaced them with something else ( I made mention of it in the video). In hind sight, I agree with your statement, I would have preferred to replace the ferro fluid. The Caps; from what I researched, it was better to replace them given the age. As you stated, it likely would not have made a difference but since I was knee deep into the process, I though why not, could not hurt. Falcon Acoustics; They were actually extremely helpful and very easy to deal with. I really have zero complaints. The caps were in stock and were shipped right away. Maybe I got lucky :-) Cheers.
@@franksoos2937 Jerry @ Falcon is a top notch guy.
@@bluefloyd6058 Sounds like it went well for you 🙂.
This is truly a comprehensive DIY Refurb video that I shared with my twin brother. He has had his Reference 104/2's since the mid-'80s. I am more of a Vandersteen kid, and actively troll for audiophile info. I had learned about how the lower surrounds on these woofers fail. He's never really pushed them very hard, but it is hard to escape the basic chemistry of the material deteriorating over time. I know there is mad science behind the design of this system, but damn, this is a wee bit of a process to refurb them. Thank you for this video!
Thank you for your comment. I was initially a bit intimidated as well. Honestly, just going one step at a time and possibly recording your step as you go, didn't make it seem that bad. Slow and steady wins the race. Sometimes I think more effort was made in doing the video :-) Best.
Are the alcap capacitors from Falcon marked for the negative pole?
Hi Jeff, these capacitors were not marked. I am thinking that these particular capacitors are not polarized. Sorry for the delayed response.
@@franksoos2937 thanks! I have already finished restoring my 104/2’s. I was very lucky that the bottom access ports were just screwed in place. Thanks for your guide.
Thanks for the follow up reply and congrats on your restoration. Glad I could help. Best!
Thanks for this. I have these speakers for a long time and they sound as new.
Thank you for sharing. It is amazing how a little bit of TLC can make something old sound or look new again. Glad you are enjoying your speakers.
My KEF 105 Series1 spkrs, which I purchased new in ‘79, are now 44yrs old, the drivers are in perfect condition, they sound excellent. The crossover caps ruptured after 20yrs, KEF replaced them, still working fine. Sadly KEF recently said they would no longer service my spkrs if needed😡.
Thank you for your comment. If KEF will no longer service your speakers, you may consider to DIY instead. I took the plunge and with a bit of homework, it worked out quite well. Cheers.
Great restoration! Very nice Kef speakers
Thanks Calvin. Amazing what a little bit of TLC will do. Indeed, nice sounding speakers.
Agreed on the electrolytic caps there. Sadly a missed opportunity to further improve the sound quality. Replace the electrolytics with Polypropylene types. Eg JB Caps, Jantzen, Mundorf. (There’s a really good capacitor test review on Humble Homemade HiFi). The Dayton audio caps may be made by Bennic in Taiwan and although Polypropylene they’re fairly bargain basement but still better than electrolytics. Add a Bypass cap on the Tweeter capacitor (I use Cornell Dubilier 940C 0.01uf on budget upgrades, see the Humble Homemade HiFi review for other suggestions). But a much better upgrade on the Tweeter circuit would be Sonicaps with a 0.01 uf Miflex copper foil bypass cap. And more regular Polypropylene caps on the Mid and woofer circuits. Only Use wire wound resistors (not the standard ceramic types), eg Dayton or Jantzen and replace the iron cored inductors with Wire wound air-cored types eg from US Coils. To learn more about such speaker upgrades, follow the GR-Research channel and Danny Ritchie.
Stephen, thank you for all the great info. I went with what I knew and how to proceed at the time. Hopefully others reading this will give them other options to consider when refurbishing their KEFs. Honestly, the speakers sound fantastic. I was really happy with the outcome. Best.
@@franksoos2937 sure thing Frank. consider it on the next upgrade. See this Kef upgrade from Danny at GR-Research
@@stephenyoud6125 Thanks Stephen, I appreciate the info. Best.
Wow 1984 .awesome job
Thank You - I appreciate the comment. It was a fun experiment and a joy to share.
folienkondensatoren wären sinvoller und viieeel besser
Thank you for your comment. My intention and preference was to preserve the original sound of the KEF speaker which is why I opted to use the original capacitors. Cheers.
@@franksoos2937 ja aber durch die Kondensatoren wird ihr volles potenzial begrenzt durch die Foli Caps wär es besser und sauberer und Geradlineger des Übertragungsbereichs...
@@oldscoolhifichannelgmh3574 Thank you for the follow up. That does sound like it could have been a good option. I was not aware of that option. In the end, I really like how it turned out.
Wow, this is the best video on any restoration I’ve ever watched, your skill and your wife’s narration are top notch . Congratulations. I’ll subscribe and share this video
Thank you Sergio. I appreciate your kind comments.
Fill the gap with shims before removing old deteriorated foam to avoid gap filled with debris
Thanks for the tip :-)
Why not MKP caps...
It was definitely an option I considered. In the end, my preference was to preserve the "original" specs.
Hi, I have a pair of these and I noticed lately that one seems to be quieter than the other, do you know what could be the cause? Many thanks.
Hi and thanks for your enquiry. What I could suggest (maybe you have already tried this) is to swap your Left and Right speakers to make sure it is not an amp or speaker cable related issue. Also, get a strong light and a mirror and look inside the base reflex hole for any obvious signs of damage or wear to the woofers. If the problem persists, it could be a variety of issues which are beyond the scope of this video. Hope you are able to find the problem.
@@franksoos2937 Thanks very much for the advice, I'll try these things. All the best.
@@juliantallach3682 Good Luck - Cheers.
An awesome video..I'm looking at buying a pair of these locally.
Thanks for your kind note. If you need to make any renovations, slow and easy is the trick. Hope this video will also assist you. Cheers.
@@franksoos2937 I bought them - Just loving the warm sound. Stan Getz and Miles Davis never sounded so good!!!🤭🤭
Thank you for this video! ❤️
Thank you for your kind comment 🙂.
Pressed steel baskets? I can see why they needed that rod.
Gratulálok! Nagyon szép és szakszerű munka! De jó volna itthon is egy ilyen hangfalon Jazzt hallgatni! Köszönöm ezt a videót!
Szívesen :-)
Good job 👏
Thank you - I appreciate it!
BPeterso Just opened up my 104s. Only had to redo the donuts as the annulus rings looked like new. Discovered that the leads off the speakers were all long enough on my speakers to work on the cones without having to unsolder them. Thanks for the video!!
Thank you for your comment. Great that only the donuts needed replacing. Enjoy your KEFs :-)
morel twitters are awesome
Thank you very much for all the effort you've put into this instruction video. I'm starting the refurbishment of my own Kef104.2's and this will prove invaluable, thanks again.
Thanks for your comment. Glad to be of help. Good luck with the restoration. It's worth it :-)
Brilliant video! I need to change my donuts and this video was perfect. Thanks.
Thanks for your kind comment. So glad this video was helpful.
Sir How to make crossover design Please to upload full video.... Thanks
I am sorry to say that "crossover design" is not in my area of expertise.
Thank you so much. I just purchased a pair of 104/2 and noticed the need to repair /replace several components on the crossovers and the speaker donuts too. This video is so helpful because it covers the coplete list of operations to restore the speakers to their original glory. I couldn't believe how "simple" the operation is. Can not thank you enough Mário
Mario, Thank you for your kind comments. I am always pleased to know that this video has helped someone. Enjoy your renovated 104/2 !
So to get to the filter you must remove the down bass, but in another video, I saw that the filter is inside the side of the bottom panel
Hello, by "Filters" I assume you are are referring to the circuit board with all the capacitors. I recall seeing some models online where the board was indeed located on the bottom panel. I am not sure if these were earlier or later models than mine. With my speakers this was obviously not the case.
@@franksoos2937 The only thing I have to do to find out is to open the bottom ; )
@@vintagestereo5491 It's a bit tricky - In one of the threads below, someone dripped acetone all around the seams and waited couple minutes before prying it out.
I would have used another wide bead of blue tack for the bottom when attaching not just the weather strip Not sure why you had to change the original tweeters how do these compare to the original spec, That's the question?
Hello John, Thanks for your comment. Indeed there are a few things I would have done differently if I could do it all over again. As for the tweeters, at the time I could not find any original ones, replacing the ferro fluid seemed somewhat more difficult (in hind sight I would have tried it) and so replacing the tweeter was the choice of the day. Honestly, it still sounds great for a speaker that is about 40 years old.
Thanks sir...👍👍
Thank You for watching :-)
Hey Frank. I'm struggling to find a crossover schematic for the KEF 105/3. Any chance you can help ID what C33 is?
Larry, Sorry I cant help with C33. I would suggest checking with Falcon Acoustics. I got all my caps from them and they were very helpful. They may know. Good luck. www.falconacoustics.co.uk/
@@franksoos2937 Will do. Many thanks!
@@larrysmith7168 Hello Larry, Regrettably, I have zero experience with the KEF 103/3. Sorry I cannot be be any help in that area.
I enjoyed every minute of it. I wish I had the skills to do it but sadly I’m not brave enough to attempt it. Will have to find someone to do it for me.
Thank you for your kind comment. For what it is worth, I had the same trepidation. I just took it one small step at a time and it is amazing at what one can do. Best Wishes.
Well made video!
Thank You for your kind comment - It was an all around great experience. When others can benefit from it, all the better. Cheers.
do you sell them ?
Good Day, I am sorry - I do not sell anything in this video. It was a personal project I was willing to share.
Many thanks for execellent video.
Thank You - I appreciate your feedback. It was a great experience and I am glad to share it.
That tweeter just wow 👏
Thanks.
How did the speakers sound after changing out the tweeters, compared to the original units?
That's a tough question. I had the original tweeters replaced many, many years ago. The tweeters I replaced (in the video) were not the original ones to begin with. Either way, the sound is great. That said, if I was still in possession of the original tweeters, I may have considered replacing the fluid inside of them. Unfortunately that was not an option for me when I did the renovation. Good luck with the repairs.
Thanks for posting this awesome video. Hopefully I can use it to repair the tweeters that were damaged during some loud music.
Thanks for your comments John. Good luck repairing the tweeters.
Great job! It looked really tough but you made it look reasonable.
Wow, fantastic workmanship demonstrated by a very skillful audiophile. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for your kind comments - much appreciated.