I was heartbroken and eventually my faith was destroyed after this group tried to recruit me. I loved studying the Bible so I thought that's what I was agreeing to. I did not believe in baptismal regeneration but I was willing to learn about it. I was shocked when the campus minister told me that I wasn't saved because I didn't have a legitimate baptism and I thought there must have been some misunderstand on his part because my baptism meant a lot to me and was my chosen public dedication of my life to following Jesus. He blindly insisted that it was just a ceremony I didn't take seriously. I could not convince him otherwise because I believed I was saved years before that moment. Then he shamed me about lust and pornography. Then he said I better realize they are right soon or things will become awkward and I'll lose my friends! So he wants me to be baptized again out of fear of rejection and fear of man. How is that a more legitimate baptism!?? I pointed out to my "buddy" later that this should set off alarm bells. If I ever get baptized again it will never be to please and keep friends. Never.
Just seeing your post. I started Bible studies with them . First Bible was great I was fired up, then I notice how they directly and indirectly tried to say the church I am attending is false teaching ( they don’t even know the church ) then the being a disciple is the only way to be saved , I was shocked . I am ending this Bible study immediately.
I nearly got to the kingdom study and then I backed out - they are not just bible studies! They test the waters to see if you're willing to leave everything behind for them (In the name of Jesus) by cherry picking verses.
Do you have an update video? It would be nice if you did! The sex absuse cases and Kip Mckean's retirement for "spiritual faltering" is very disturbing!!
I am currently in seminary so my time is limited. I am planning to make more as soon as I can. Can you message me on FB? I’d love to get your input on what topics you’d find helpful.
@@emmettkellogg7565I would love for you to go deeper on thier 5 core convictions and how convoluted it is, especially central leadership and speak when the bible is silent.😊
I think the original commenter is saying they control who you spend your time with. They take up all your time with all the events they host and make you attend so you don’t become “weak” in the Faith.
The Bible explicitly teaches that we become lost because of our sins. Your argument of not confronting people is irrelevant. John 8:31-34 2 Corinthians 5:16-19
I think they just want to operate according to the first century church in the Bible, which seems too fanatical to people in the 21st century. I don't think they should be called a cult because they won't hurt anyone who doesn't believe in them. But they do have almost harsh requirements for members of the church, just like Jesus’ requirements for his disciples in the Gospels. I'm neutral about it, I feel like I tried to be active with them but I couldn't, I respect the way they behave.
There isn't anything wrong with holding the standards of the original Church who walked with Jesus, the PROBLEM is when they ignore the rest of the New Testament that completely negates all of it as a necessity to being justified through a transition with Gospel given to the Gentiles (Romans 1) This is called rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15) by them holding to the unecessary yoke laid on the original Churches necks, they've fallen from the grace of God and have now added works to Salvation which goes against Paul's gospel (Ephesians 2:8) No different than a 7th day Adventist or Sabbatarian preaching a false Gospel. They claim no autonomy between other denominations and belive they are the only ones who teach the truth, and anything else outside what they teach is "false doctrine" and will antagonize you if you'd choose to believe anything else. This is already a Cult by the very nature on how they control information and your thoughts.
@@GospelSaves Thanks for sharing these verses, I noticed these for the first time. Also when I think about it, the thing I feel most uncomfortable with is their exclusivity towards other churches. 1) When I said that I used to watch other churches’ worship live broadcasts on TH-cam, they refused to comment. 2) When I told them I wanted to go to another church, they told me there was no way God could save me from other churches. Of course, since I haven’t been very involved with them yet, I haven’t experienced the mental trauma of leaving ICC that others have mentioned. Anyway, thanks for sharing.
The victims associated with the jamestown suicides all believed the same thing. were they a cult by your definition or a cult by the more general concensus?
@@GospelSaves I don't even know anything about that because I do not know the victims except what the media wants us to believe about it. If anyone is being intellectually honest about what the bible teaches, it becomes clearer that all groups promoting one particular belief about God are divisive. Their own bible teaches that in many places, so anyone following the truth is going to be alone at some point.
My only consideration before calling a church occult is when there belief touches the doctrines on salvation. There belief about water baptism required in salavation is occult.
There are different reasons why a group would be categorized as a cult. The first is the way that they function and behave. The second one, which is prevalent when discussing certain Christian/pseudo-christian groups is whether or not they preach the true gospel.
@@emmettkellogg7565 every church has the right to be different how it operates and functions which depends on ther culture, geographical location and etc. Though each church may be different but all should be united when it comes to the main doctrine established by the church fathers to identify the true church from the occults. Meaning that the churches may be different when it come to the minor doctrines that affect not the salvation.
Losers and abusers , they have a special place in hell for the leaders and such for exploiting and abusing and disrespecting God, Jesus and people who were in a vulnerable state or very young and away from home at college. I know some people in the ICC and its everything in there life they are not living just existing like drones its sad . I have much more to say about this but not today . Be safe everyone and think for yourself and pray anywhere and anytime he will listen .
thanks to kip my church has a bad rep cause of his behavior and those close to him for the sins he was in. kip actually mispend church money for his personal trips.
I made so many 'friends' but they disappeared as soon as I told them I wasn't going to dump my fiancé. They knew I was lonely generally so it really hurt me.
Hello Emmett! I really appreciate this video. I was in the ICC for alittle over 2 years and helped plant a church. I was exiled 7 months ago for dating outside the church. Since then I've been questioning my Salvation. I'm spiritually and emotionally hurt from it tbh. I'm grateful for this video bc it's definitely helped me with clarity. I barely read my bible bc i just felt so guilty. I miss being in the word and now I finally feel like I can start reading it without a guilty conscience. You did a great job and explain things very well. Thank you!!!! Hope you're doing well bro, pray for meeee plzzz !!! God bless 🙌🏻
Hey Jocelyn! I was briefly involved with the ICC around the time I became a Christian and have the same struggle with questioning my salvation. I can relate to how challenging the experience is. I pray the Lord gives you grace to have full confidence in your salvation and have a rich spiritual life! 🙏🏾
I’m so sorry about how you were treated by them. I was in the ICOC many years ago (almost the exact same organization). I just want to be clear about something , and this is not to cause you pain but it is something I went through after I was taken out: their false gospel. ICOC and your group teaches a false gospel that is works based. They teach you that you must be water baptized to be saved and misuse verses like John 3:5 and acts 2:38. The problem is that they are giving you to believe a false gospel that can harm you spiritually and keep you separated from God. The true biblical gospel is that Jesus died to pay for your sins and rose again to give you new life. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).His death and resurrection is applied to you freely by grace through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). There is nothing you can do to add to what Jesus did; trusting or adding to it by your works (including baptism) nullifies grace (Romans 11:6). If you still think that your water baptism saves you in whole or in part, I implore you to repent of this and trust solely in Christ alone for your salvation. God bless!
@@TomPlantagenetHello, thanks much for your comment. I've come here to inquire about this actually. I do however have a question, If we are saved by grace and faith alone, and you don't need to be baptized in order to be saved, why does Jesus say In John 3:3-7 “Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’” John 3:5-7 NIV
@@blazefl4me water and the Spirit is not a reference to water baptism but to God’s cleaning and regeneration in Ezekiel 36:25-27. God promises to cleanse His people. People assume it’s baptism, but that is not in view here. Hope that clears it up.
They always say I have the free choice to leave at any point, but when I did want to leave, I was pressured to do just one more Bible study to answer any confusion I had. The guy I was speaking with also wanted to share my number with other members, and I said no. Thankfully, he respected my choice. Also they do group study for you, they take notes for you, they explain verses for you. There's 3 or 4 people trying to explain the word of God using verses taken out of context, and they pressure you to agree with what they say God wants from you.
The main problem is that they have a false gospel that teaches water baptism is required for salvation. The thief on the cross is the best example of why this is false.
It does not tell you that water baptism is a symbol but a type. And those are two very different things. In fact most translations wrestle with how to get this word right because symbol is far too empty and "symbolic". So they use words like corresponds to or a figure of. I would urge you to reconsider your view on this passage. Baptism is a salvation event given by God. And it is God's work. Not ours. @@lotusjumpingspider8761
Everyone acts like this church is doing evil. They teach people to follow the Bible😭. They teach people to match their life with their doctrine and being working servants of God. Everyone talking about their experiences just sounds like emotions and that you’re putting your life first instead of God first. You guys are speaking upon emotions instead of scriptures . Matthew 28:19-20 commands us to go and make disciples of all nations and baptize them to follow God’s command … everyone is just another person looking for the easiest Blackdoor of being a Christian and being saved. Read the Bible.
No no, they teach people to follow them (ICOC/ICC), not the bible. This church was created in the 1970s; there is no way this church has any right to control who you can date & spend time with, nor where you can go to church, based on the Bible, mmk.And I left in 2021, this is not an old practice that was abandoned in 2003, since people love to argue that. The first church existed waaaaay before the 1970s creation of these organizations. To believe that all other churches have it wrong, and the excuse that "I'm sure other true churches exist but I haven't found one yet" being used as a justification for why you are only allowed to date people in your group and go to school, and work, and live in places where there is an icoc/icc, otherwise it is unwise and wrong of you to do so??? This is not biblical as you claim, this is high control and arrogance. God and Jesus never practiced high control, so please maybe study that out since you want to tell us we don't know the bible and what it teaches.
I've never seen anyone control who someone CAN or CANNOT date. They certainly aren't required to approve of anyone's dating choices. And, neither is God. Sure, dating may be a matter of conscience but that doesn't mean one is free to do whatever they please. @@LovelyNPC
As a current member, I could understand how the behavior is cult-like. I was very uncomfortable with it for the first 3 ish months, but I eventually just had the mindset to set a better example for others so they dont struggle with their faith. I would say my main reason for staying is because they take their teachings directly from the Bible. But I am very open to see how this sect preaches false doctrine.. I think it would be pretty cool to see how the church preaches false doctrine just to have the choice to think freely and critically. Because from my experience, what they preach does come directly from the Bible
@@jacoblabaniegos69 because they believe water baptism is salvific. It’s similar to Catholics believing transubstantiation (communion being the actual body). Or the Pharisees who believed circumcision is salvific. All those things are symbolic to what the creator does in us. 1 Peter 3:21 “…water now symbolizes….”. Paul denounces this heavily because they are works based. Romans 4:4-5. Of course you have to harmonize this with James 2 but ICC and ICOC for that matter focus on one end instead of both and do a poor job harmonizing different scriptural text
@@lotusjumpingspider8761 In context, 1 Peter 3:20-21 talks about the flood with Noah, using this event as an example of how Noah and his family was saved in water. 1 Peter 3:21 "and this water symbolizes baptism that now also saves you- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience towards God" Roman's 4:4-5 does talk about works without faith (if you are working without having faith, what you do will feel like an obligation) since the chapter is talking about Abraham who is considered the father of faith. And in context, Paul is talking about circumcision, which those practicing Judaism were boasting about in front of the Gentiles. Now I agree that baptism alone does not save you. If I grabbed a random person in the street and threw them in a lake, I did nothing but get them wet. But Colosians 2:12 does talk about how we are saved through faith at baptism (and please feel free to read in context to verify so I am not spreading misinformation) I used to believe that baptism was a sign to show an inward garce, but Roman's 6:2-4 does talk about it being an active participation in the death and resurrection in Christ. I kinda agree that the Church gets too excited in talking about working for God and could forget to tell newcomers the why. Which asking questions or being honest could help.
I have a scripture I wanted to share with you. It describes the church you're talking about in a nutshell. Some people call this scripture the jewel in the gospels & I agree ! Mark 8:34-38 34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 35 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? 37 Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels. Verse 35 is the key verse & describes the commitment a person makes to be a disciple of Jesus. We all have/had worldly dreams about what we were doing with our lives. We all have an agenda, desires, ambitions, goals, plans. But Jesus says we are to give up our earthly life & live for him. He has to be our Lord! He says we are to lose our earthly life for him. He also says we do it for the gospel; meaning proclaim the gospel. Being a fisher of men, seeking & saving the lost, making disciples. We help others out of the world & repent of their sin. We still have dreams & plans, but the will of God becomes first place. This is the commitment we make to God. Verses 36, 37 show it's a matter of salvation! This whole passage shows characteristics of being a disciple of Jesus. For example; denying self, carrying your cross & following Jesus. Being his disciple is the most Noble life anyone could ever live! You have become a minister of reconciliation & an ambassador of Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:1- 6:18 It's the greatest adventure & when you die; you get to be with God for eternity! It's the greatest joy, peace & meaning anyone could ever experience ! ! !
Yes the ICC is a cult, 100%. They omit crucial parts of the Bible’s accurate teaching (mainly on the topic of divorce/remarriage, serving in government/military, and participating in the world…). They omit and twist these teachings in the justification to win the lost. Their only focus is converting new blood. They don’t care that the back door is constantly open with folks leaving every week (fall always, eeeks). If you challenge them on their poor doctrine, they will ostracize you, call you prideful and arrogant, then mark you for being decisive. I did enjoy some wonderful memories and safety in the confines of the ICOC back in the 90s. However, the shallowness of these relationships was highlighted when my wife of 10 years left me, due to some challenges we went through in life. She couldn’t handle it, and felt she deserved a better situation, which, was to marry a man 13 years younger than her, a non believer, and just do whatever she wants to do (the true heart of these children brought up in that environment). So it’s a cult, and it’s far off of the biblical truth.
By Gods supernatural intervention I was firmly grounded in the book of Hebrews when they invited me to their Bible studies. I had a great Nkjv study Bible with an extensive topical index. Even though I was only 4 months into reading the Bible I systematically brought up multiple verses that refuted their salvation by works false doctrines. I was surprised at how bad they took it. I naively thought we where their to study the Bible. I was blamed of having a religious demon. I was told I wasn’t really saved because I admitted to relapsing to the sin of porn a few weeks ago after a long streak of abstinence. Thank God I found the orthodox Christian church which has apostolic succession tracing back to the apostle Peter, has one unified doctrine, and thousands of years of solid Holy Spirit inspired history.
Just curious, as i would like for churches claiming to be Christian to be unified, does this church teach repentance and immersion for the forgiveness of sins and the receipt of the Holy Spirit, as Peter taught?
@@kehaulani1467he Orthodox Christian in Antioch was directly founded by St Peter and is still in existence in Damascus. I’m not exaggerating when I say there isn’t a single orthodox service where we won’t ask the Lord for his mercy at least a hundred times. A lot more on many days. Our liturgy hasn’t changed since the 2nd century AD. I’ve never known such repentance as when I joined the orthodox Christian church.
I mean no offense but the Orthodox teaching is similar to ICOC regarding baptism. Nearly identical. So then, what is this salvation by "works" you refer to? @@davefigthe3rd
Honestly this “church” is all about control and money. They constantly practice favoritism to those who are more spiritual, while those who are struggling are silenced and ignored. In my time of need, I was left to the wolves because I wasn’t spiritual enough. They don’t care about people, they care about their bottom lines. You’re pressured to baptize, give money and sacrifice. I advise everyone to read Gabe Reed’s letter before joining.
The leader Garrett and Hedi were rude, forgetful and constantly telling me I needed to forgive one the fellow child abusers in the group. Amber and Brandon very much admitted to shaking their baby and Hedi and Garret Bradely both just allowed for them to continue to have access to other church members children. Very negligent.
As an ICC member, I’ll just ask you to read Acts 5:17-42. Then, I want you to carefully consider whether or not this video was a wise one to make. That’s all I’ll say, peace be with you.
Stand up for the truth and don't worry about the outcome. What isn't wise about exposing real experiences that's so far from what Jesus preaches and stand for? You're clearly brainwashed. Brushing things under the rug won't get you to the truth...
@@emmettkellogg7565 I made my decision to leave one of their NE churches this week. I can't listen to man tell me what God wants for me. Thats between God and me.
@@emmettkellogg7565 oh wow, thank you. I just made a friend from the London ICC Church and they have invited me to visit and I was planning to visit that's why I asked for clarification.
@@CoCoDeLaCruZ ask if you can be a part of church without tithing and with no discipling partner. Or if you can go to any church you want after being baptized
I want to thank you so much for this video, my girlfriend and I are doing long distance right now for school, and I am a Biblical studies student so I started to sus out her church (she wasn’t too far in, she was at the light and darkness study or whatever they call it) and this video was super duper helpful for her, she just left so she is now dealing with the harassment and all of that, so pray for us and wish her luck 😅 Really I can’t stress how much this video helped us so thank you again!
Update: We are getting married in a week and now attend a First Baptist church although we are church shopping so my fiancé still considers herself non denominational until we find a church that fits our needs and ability to give to the community. I was genuinely amazed by the level of persistence that the ICC in her area had, but due to our life situation we were blessed enough that rather than deal with the problem my fiancé just decided to attend my college so she was able to move away from where her problems started. While it upset me greatly that they contacted her after she made it clear she didn’t want to be contacted, what I will say (even if it is a silver lining) is that the Disciples who had worked with her seemed genuinely to care about her salvation and while it was totally inappropriate they were either the best actors in the world or really felt that she was abandoning salvation by leaving the church. So tldr: while I personally do feel that the ICC is a cult on an institutional level, and I am glad to have my loved one be safe away from their influence, I also think that at least at some level (the disciples that worked with my fiancé and the local pastor) the people were genuine and meant only the best for those that they discipled.
@@johngalt5166 For me when I left, they kept emailing me about their events even though I no longer wanted anything to do with them. I closed down that email and created a different one. Unfortunately, it's not that easy to do with my number. I blocked all their numbers and I`m not sure if they`ve still been contacting me because of that. But it was over a year ago so I wouldn`t know whose number is who. But they probably stopped a long time ago.
I am currently in the ICC and have had to start going to a psychiatrist and therapist because my experience has traumatized me… I got diagnosed with multiple things but my therapist thinks I have C-PTSD.
The IOCC requires nearly everyday mandatory attendance. They require weekly tithes and additionally "special missions" These special missions require extreme amounts. Eugene IOCC this spring required 15 member to come up with 23,000$. The members are require to attend conferences. Flying to Chicago, LA on members' own time and money. IOCC requires members to church plant as missionaries. They send members without any support, place to live, or job. They are not allowed to question. They separate from family and friends who question the church. They have a decipler ( partner that monitors them ) They have to get permission to date and who you date. Members are required to get permission to marry. They are required to get permission to miss services and activities. My daughter is in IOCC. She is now in a mental hospital with some form of psychosis. The only person of contact is the local leaders of the church. All family and friends have been denied access. BEWARE OF IOCC I am so upset and warn anyone to stay
This has got to be the most well balanced video on the ICC. We need more biblically minded ex icc/icoc’ers to expose these guys. The main reason why most members don’t leave is because they think they’re the only ones who have it right - videos like this expose the cracks from a logical and biblical perspective
I lost a friend to this church, someone who was never really grounded in Scripture. She tried to recruit me back in 2017 as if I did not know she was doing. She saw me as lost despite my profession of faith and being Biblically literate. Her mind has been completely taken over by this group. It's amazing how her personality has shifted so much. This is what happens when you are unable to think for yourself. You will find someone who will think for you. I agreed to "study the Bible" with them and I set up Biblical roadblocks to see what they would do. They were so confused. Their "first principles" studies take the place of the Bible itself. Clearly they do not do much plain reading to understand what is being said from the text without referring to Kip McKean's commentary. It's deceptive for them to say "study the Bible" when it means going through pre-determined passages from the Bible with no exegesis. It's a bait and switch tactic.
@@TerranDawn12 That was a really good question & I would have loved to have heard their answer. Sadly, they probably never got the notification of your question. I've found it's quite typical of TH-cam to use these 'roadblocks,' the buggers. For what it's worth, that really was a great question 😉
Problem i see with this church is by watching their videos is that they use NIV bible . Which was translated by Cults and not by Christians. And i noticed some of thier principle are based on a easy to read translation that is know to have 1,000 plus mistakes ect corrupted version. Being sincere dose not equal to truth, they can be sincerely using the wrong bible and wondering way cult videos are showing up, maybey its the bible versions they use producing its cult fruit . Jesus said his word is Spirit, so if we use the wrong bible then are not using the wrong spirit.Some of these bible versions read like catholic doctrines. but when you read accurate version the word change is day night.
Elements of Indoctrination 1. A Crossroads - Going through a tough time or difficult transition. In a vulnerable state. 2. The Soft Sell - Taking that first step, ie. bible talk, event, first meeting. 'Disciples' can work on you and invite you back. Going to further events to indoctrinate them. 3. A New Reality - Closed or controlled environment. Become more & more enveloped in this self sealing system. 4. The Dear Leader - Your most important relationship is with them. Everything else and everybody else is wrong. (Ie. Kip McKean and the system) 5. The Enemy - which the leaders will often solidify by creating an external enemy. This means that you are going to psychologically run to the cult leaders. You don't reason anymore. People in this state of cognitive dissonance, they're going to choose over and over and over for the cult and the cult leaders. 6. Peer pressure - Which brings us to the key what cult leaders scale up their control. This fundamental desire to be part of a group can override even our own perception of reality. 7. A Sociopathic Narcissist- All to serve the whims of a likely sociopathic narcissist. Look up Multi Level Marketing. Leaving a Cult Its hard to leave a cult because it's your whole world 1. Discover their leader is fallible. 2. They release that these people are all just hypocrites. Claiming they are different. 3. The constructed reality cracks. Leaving the cult creates a lot of fear and people do not know how to make their own decisions. Something they believed in was a delusion. Recipe When you are in a position where you're isolated, alone, hurting, worried. A group comes along and says I can help you. After an epiphany you may be hooked. They mimick your pain or whatever your going through and it becomes like a trance and loose your sense of autonomy, critical thinking and need to be dependant on the group. To experience this with you and to guide you through it. Single mindedness. Isolation, feel guilty for leaving. Deprogramming is undoing the doctrine. Just my notes on cults. The choice is yours.
This is some of what was said to me verbatim when I decided not to show up to get baptized. “Hey bro i don’t know what we did to you personally but I did believe we were truly friends. So are we not cool no more because I associate with GOD? I know we are better than this bro. Look at whats happened, you are willing to throw a friendship away because you saw the truth that you have always prayed for? Im still here for you bro Im just a little hurt.” I only knew them for two weeks… here’s some more. After a bit of discussion he proceeded to send me this. “Hey bro I was praying this morning and I thought of you and these questions. 1. Does your relationship with GOD look the same as before or is it growing? 2. Do you honestly believe that where you are is with GOD. 3. Are you still willing to hear your questions answered by the Bible. 4. Is your family Lord of your life or is Jesus Lord. I love you bro and haven’t forgot about you, don’t stop seeking out answers from GOD and don’t do it alone. Let’s sit down and talk bro.” I mentioned to him that they made a lot of assumptions about my faith and relationship with God. After that he backed down a bit. I had told them multiple times that I had already studied all of the scripture they were showing me and they kept trying to convince me that I didn’t know anything and couldn’t search scripture on my own. They’d say “Doesn’t that make you emotional?” And I said “Not really because I’ve already read that and have come to accept it. No, I didn’t know what I was getting into. Their goal seems to be to get you in person to pressure you 2-on-1 or 3-on-1. To give a more rounded perspective of what I experienced, they were actually a normal kind of friendly people and could have regular conversations with them I went to a good amount of their gathering. However they kept trying to rush me into getting baptized (again) In their Bible studies they always took notes for me and sent me their material. Just haven’t gotten the chance to look it over it all again. However I know their doctrine fairly well because of it. They emphasize being baptized in water as the main means to salvation alongside Jesus. Almost so much so, it seemed the water during baptism was more important than faith in Christ. I told them they could email me answers to my questions, but they didn’t want to do that. If you really want to know there whole belief I recommend purchasing Kip McKean’s book “First Principles and follow up studies” on Amazon They also kept telling me I couldn’t get the book until I was baptized and after I was baptized they’d give me a new Bible than the NKJV study Bible I had, which was also weird.
High Control Groups are the worst. They are like onions with all the layers of good faith and lovely people helping their fellow brothers and sisters (if they're in good standing that is) woven together between even more layers of disgusting, abuse, money grabbing and getting as many new members through the door, "ya know, ya gotta get those numbers up$$$" that is a Multi Level Marketing scheme. Just like Scientology does, & the IRS really should take away the tax exemptions from these orgs/cults. Imho They certainly don't deserve it.
My 2 younger siblings attend this church and it is scary. The church has them brainwashed to the point that no matter that we tell them about the church, they don’t want to hear it. We literally read through and watched multiple people’s experiences of the church and they confirmed that they are going through the exact same thing yet they don’t see anything wrong with it and think that we are being used by the devil. They were told not to look online about the church and that anyone that talks bad about the church is being used by the devil and are trying to stop them from discipling or something along those lines. They are 17 and 19 and both are in full time education yet are required to give money to the church even thought they don’t work due and don’t earn any money. This is so scary to witness and I have no clue what to do.
Emmett were you apart of the Chicago ICC? I believe I met you.
I was heartbroken and eventually my faith was destroyed after this group tried to recruit me. I loved studying the Bible so I thought that's what I was agreeing to. I did not believe in baptismal regeneration but I was willing to learn about it. I was shocked when the campus minister told me that I wasn't saved because I didn't have a legitimate baptism and I thought there must have been some misunderstand on his part because my baptism meant a lot to me and was my chosen public dedication of my life to following Jesus. He blindly insisted that it was just a ceremony I didn't take seriously. I could not convince him otherwise because I believed I was saved years before that moment. Then he shamed me about lust and pornography. Then he said I better realize they are right soon or things will become awkward and I'll lose my friends! So he wants me to be baptized again out of fear of rejection and fear of man. How is that a more legitimate baptism!?? I pointed out to my "buddy" later that this should set off alarm bells. If I ever get baptized again it will never be to please and keep friends. Never.
This is brilliant and so well researched. How did you get that AI voice to read all this? So cool looking also.
As The Lord said, "If you hold to my teachings you are really my disiciple then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free" -John 8:31-32
It was hell. It was miserable. The leaders are abusive and cover for other child abusers it is disgusting.
Great description and quotes! 16:30-17:20 succinctly and well put!
Just seeing your post. I started Bible studies with them . First Bible was great I was fired up, then I notice how they directly and indirectly tried to say the church I am attending is false teaching ( they don’t even know the church ) then the being a disciple is the only way to be saved , I was shocked . I am ending this Bible study immediately.
I nearly got to the kingdom study and then I backed out - they are not just bible studies! They test the waters to see if you're willing to leave everything behind for them (In the name of Jesus) by cherry picking verses.
It probably is but at the same time, society is one big cult made up of little cults.
That's why it's called Culture:)
Do you have an update video? It would be nice if you did! The sex absuse cases and Kip Mckean's retirement for "spiritual faltering" is very disturbing!!
Thank you!
Pls make more videos about this we need good theology to debunk this stuff it’s spreading wuick
I am currently in seminary so my time is limited. I am planning to make more as soon as I can. Can you message me on FB? I’d love to get your input on what topics you’d find helpful.
@@emmettkellogg7565I would love for you to go deeper on thier 5 core convictions and how convoluted it is, especially central leadership and speak when the bible is silent.😊
And why would anyone ask you to attend their regular services, do quiet times, bible studies from any church wants you to become? To be with them.
Forgive me for not understanding your question. Could you rephrase it?
I think the original commenter is saying they control who you spend your time with. They take up all your time with all the events they host and make you attend so you don’t become “weak” in the Faith.
The Bible explicitly teaches that we become lost because of our sins. Your argument of not confronting people is irrelevant. John 8:31-34 2 Corinthians 5:16-19
What are you talking about? Like what specifically in the video?
I don’t see any difference between them and the ICOC. It sounds like the same organization.
Yea it’s an offshoot started by the original founder of the ICOC.
@@emmettkellogg7565 so I’ve heard. I was part of ICOC in the mid 90s. Sounds like he just rebooted it with the exact same practices and doctrine.
I was invited to dinner that involved a Bible study.
I think they just want to operate according to the first century church in the Bible, which seems too fanatical to people in the 21st century. I don't think they should be called a cult because they won't hurt anyone who doesn't believe in them. But they do have almost harsh requirements for members of the church, just like Jesus’ requirements for his disciples in the Gospels. I'm neutral about it, I feel like I tried to be active with them but I couldn't, I respect the way they behave.
There isn't anything wrong with holding the standards of the original Church who walked with Jesus, the PROBLEM is when they ignore the rest of the New Testament that completely negates all of it as a necessity to being justified through a transition with Gospel given to the Gentiles (Romans 1) This is called rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15) by them holding to the unecessary yoke laid on the original Churches necks, they've fallen from the grace of God and have now added works to Salvation which goes against Paul's gospel (Ephesians 2:8) No different than a 7th day Adventist or Sabbatarian preaching a false Gospel. They claim no autonomy between other denominations and belive they are the only ones who teach the truth, and anything else outside what they teach is "false doctrine" and will antagonize you if you'd choose to believe anything else. This is already a Cult by the very nature on how they control information and your thoughts.
@@GospelSaves Thanks for sharing these verses, I noticed these for the first time. Also when I think about it, the thing I feel most uncomfortable with is their exclusivity towards other churches. 1) When I said that I used to watch other churches’ worship live broadcasts on TH-cam, they refused to comment. 2) When I told them I wanted to go to another church, they told me there was no way God could save me from other churches. Of course, since I haven’t been very involved with them yet, I haven’t experienced the mental trauma of leaving ICC that others have mentioned. Anyway, thanks for sharing.
Any group of people believing the same thing is a cult
The victims associated with the jamestown suicides all believed the same thing. were they a cult by your definition or a cult by the more general concensus?
@@GospelSaves I don't even know anything about that because I do not know the victims except what the media wants us to believe about it. If anyone is being intellectually honest about what the bible teaches, it becomes clearer that all groups promoting one particular belief about God are divisive. Their own bible teaches that in many places, so anyone following the truth is going to be alone at some point.
My only consideration before calling a church occult is when there belief touches the doctrines on salvation. There belief about water baptism required in salavation is occult.
There are different reasons why a group would be categorized as a cult. The first is the way that they function and behave. The second one, which is prevalent when discussing certain Christian/pseudo-christian groups is whether or not they preach the true gospel.
@@emmettkellogg7565 every church has the right to be different how it operates and functions which depends on ther culture, geographical location and etc. Though each church may be different but all should be united when it comes to the main doctrine established by the church fathers to identify the true church from the occults. Meaning that the churches may be different when it come to the minor doctrines that affect not the salvation.
Losers and abusers , they have a special place in hell for the leaders and such for exploiting and abusing and disrespecting God, Jesus and people who were in a vulnerable state or very young and away from home at college. I know some people in the ICC and its everything in there life they are not living just existing like drones its sad . I have much more to say about this but not today . Be safe everyone and think for yourself and pray anywhere and anytime he will listen .
thanks to kip my church has a bad rep cause of his behavior and those close to him for the sins he was in. kip actually mispend church money for his personal trips.
Is it really true? I'm a current member
My sister is in the City of Angels ICC right now. I wish I had a better way to help.
I made so many 'friends' but they disappeared as soon as I told them I wasn't going to dump my fiancé. They knew I was lonely generally so it really hurt me.
Hello Emmett! I really appreciate this video. I was in the ICC for alittle over 2 years and helped plant a church. I was exiled 7 months ago for dating outside the church. Since then I've been questioning my Salvation. I'm spiritually and emotionally hurt from it tbh. I'm grateful for this video bc it's definitely helped me with clarity. I barely read my bible bc i just felt so guilty. I miss being in the word and now I finally feel like I can start reading it without a guilty conscience. You did a great job and explain things very well. Thank you!!!! Hope you're doing well bro, pray for meeee plzzz !!! God bless 🙌🏻
So glad to hear! Get in the word and seek the Lord. He promises to strengthen and support you in your time of need. He has abundant grace 😊 God Bless!
Hey Jocelyn! I was briefly involved with the ICC around the time I became a Christian and have the same struggle with questioning my salvation. I can relate to how challenging the experience is. I pray the Lord gives you grace to have full confidence in your salvation and have a rich spiritual life! 🙏🏾
I’m so sorry about how you were treated by them. I was in the ICOC many years ago (almost the exact same organization). I just want to be clear about something , and this is not to cause you pain but it is something I went through after I was taken out: their false gospel. ICOC and your group teaches a false gospel that is works based. They teach you that you must be water baptized to be saved and misuse verses like John 3:5 and acts 2:38. The problem is that they are giving you to believe a false gospel that can harm you spiritually and keep you separated from God. The true biblical gospel is that Jesus died to pay for your sins and rose again to give you new life. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).His death and resurrection is applied to you freely by grace through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). There is nothing you can do to add to what Jesus did; trusting or adding to it by your works (including baptism) nullifies grace (Romans 11:6). If you still think that your water baptism saves you in whole or in part, I implore you to repent of this and trust solely in Christ alone for your salvation. God bless!
@@TomPlantagenetHello, thanks much for your comment. I've come here to inquire about this actually. I do however have a question, If we are saved by grace and faith alone, and you don't need to be baptized in order to be saved, why does Jesus say In John 3:3-7 “Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’” John 3:5-7 NIV
@@blazefl4me water and the Spirit is not a reference to water baptism but to God’s cleaning and regeneration in Ezekiel 36:25-27. God promises to cleanse His people. People assume it’s baptism, but that is not in view here. Hope that clears it up.
They always say I have the free choice to leave at any point, but when I did want to leave, I was pressured to do just one more Bible study to answer any confusion I had. The guy I was speaking with also wanted to share my number with other members, and I said no. Thankfully, he respected my choice. Also they do group study for you, they take notes for you, they explain verses for you. There's 3 or 4 people trying to explain the word of God using verses taken out of context, and they pressure you to agree with what they say God wants from you.
The main problem is that they have a false gospel that teaches water baptism is required for salvation. The thief on the cross is the best example of why this is false.
It’s funny because they like to use 1 Peter 3:21 but that tells you that water baptism is a symbol
Jesus had the power to do anything 🙏
It does not tell you that water baptism is a symbol but a type. And those are two very different things. In fact most translations wrestle with how to get this word right because symbol is far too empty and "symbolic". So they use words like corresponds to or a figure of. I would urge you to reconsider your view on this passage. Baptism is a salvation event given by God. And it is God's work. Not ours. @@lotusjumpingspider8761
Can I ask: what's something you hold very dear? What's a common symbol for that thing?@@lotusjumpingspider8761
You are absolutely correct!
Everyone acts like this church is doing evil. They teach people to follow the Bible😭. They teach people to match their life with their doctrine and being working servants of God. Everyone talking about their experiences just sounds like emotions and that you’re putting your life first instead of God first. You guys are speaking upon emotions instead of scriptures . Matthew 28:19-20 commands us to go and make disciples of all nations and baptize them to follow God’s command … everyone is just another person looking for the easiest Blackdoor of being a Christian and being saved. Read the Bible.
No no, they teach people to follow them (ICOC/ICC), not the bible. This church was created in the 1970s; there is no way this church has any right to control who you can date & spend time with, nor where you can go to church, based on the Bible, mmk.And I left in 2021, this is not an old practice that was abandoned in 2003, since people love to argue that. The first church existed waaaaay before the 1970s creation of these organizations. To believe that all other churches have it wrong, and the excuse that "I'm sure other true churches exist but I haven't found one yet" being used as a justification for why you are only allowed to date people in your group and go to school, and work, and live in places where there is an icoc/icc, otherwise it is unwise and wrong of you to do so??? This is not biblical as you claim, this is high control and arrogance. God and Jesus never practiced high control, so please maybe study that out since you want to tell us we don't know the bible and what it teaches.
I've never seen anyone control who someone CAN or CANNOT date. They certainly aren't required to approve of anyone's dating choices. And, neither is God. Sure, dating may be a matter of conscience but that doesn't mean one is free to do whatever they please. @@LovelyNPC
Awesome vídeo! Thanks
As a current member, I could understand how the behavior is cult-like. I was very uncomfortable with it for the first 3 ish months, but I eventually just had the mindset to set a better example for others so they dont struggle with their faith. I would say my main reason for staying is because they take their teachings directly from the Bible. But I am very open to see how this sect preaches false doctrine.. I think it would be pretty cool to see how the church preaches false doctrine just to have the choice to think freely and critically. Because from my experience, what they preach does come directly from the Bible
facebook.com/emmett.kellogg?mibextid=LQQJ4d Shoot me a message we can talk about some doctrinal issues.
They preach baptismal regeneration with is erroneous doctrine
@@lotusjumpingspider8761 how so?
@@jacoblabaniegos69 because they believe water baptism is salvific. It’s similar to Catholics believing transubstantiation (communion being the actual body). Or the Pharisees who believed circumcision is salvific. All those things are symbolic to what the creator does in us. 1 Peter 3:21 “…water now symbolizes….”. Paul denounces this heavily because they are works based. Romans 4:4-5. Of course you have to harmonize this with James 2 but ICC and ICOC for that matter focus on one end instead of both and do a poor job harmonizing different scriptural text
@@lotusjumpingspider8761 In context, 1 Peter 3:20-21 talks about the flood with Noah, using this event as an example of how Noah and his family was saved in water. 1 Peter 3:21 "and this water symbolizes baptism that now also saves you- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience towards God" Roman's 4:4-5 does talk about works without faith (if you are working without having faith, what you do will feel like an obligation) since the chapter is talking about Abraham who is considered the father of faith. And in context, Paul is talking about circumcision, which those practicing Judaism were boasting about in front of the Gentiles. Now I agree that baptism alone does not save you. If I grabbed a random person in the street and threw them in a lake, I did nothing but get them wet. But Colosians 2:12 does talk about how we are saved through faith at baptism (and please feel free to read in context to verify so I am not spreading misinformation) I used to believe that baptism was a sign to show an inward garce, but Roman's 6:2-4 does talk about it being an active participation in the death and resurrection in Christ. I kinda agree that the Church gets too excited in talking about working for God and could forget to tell newcomers the why. Which asking questions or being honest could help.
I have a scripture I wanted to share with you. It describes the church you're talking about in a nutshell. Some people call this scripture the jewel in the gospels & I agree ! Mark 8:34-38 34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 35 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? 37 Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels. Verse 35 is the key verse & describes the commitment a person makes to be a disciple of Jesus. We all have/had worldly dreams about what we were doing with our lives. We all have an agenda, desires, ambitions, goals, plans. But Jesus says we are to give up our earthly life & live for him. He has to be our Lord! He says we are to lose our earthly life for him. He also says we do it for the gospel; meaning proclaim the gospel. Being a fisher of men, seeking & saving the lost, making disciples. We help others out of the world & repent of their sin. We still have dreams & plans, but the will of God becomes first place. This is the commitment we make to God. Verses 36, 37 show it's a matter of salvation! This whole passage shows characteristics of being a disciple of Jesus. For example; denying self, carrying your cross & following Jesus. Being his disciple is the most Noble life anyone could ever live! You have become a minister of reconciliation & an ambassador of Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:1- 6:18 It's the greatest adventure & when you die; you get to be with God for eternity! It's the greatest joy, peace & meaning anyone could ever experience ! ! !
Salvation is not about to be a disciple, You need first to be saved in order to become in a Disciple of Jesus.
Yes the ICC is a cult, 100%. They omit crucial parts of the Bible’s accurate teaching (mainly on the topic of divorce/remarriage, serving in government/military, and participating in the world…). They omit and twist these teachings in the justification to win the lost. Their only focus is converting new blood. They don’t care that the back door is constantly open with folks leaving every week (fall always, eeeks). If you challenge them on their poor doctrine, they will ostracize you, call you prideful and arrogant, then mark you for being decisive. I did enjoy some wonderful memories and safety in the confines of the ICOC back in the 90s. However, the shallowness of these relationships was highlighted when my wife of 10 years left me, due to some challenges we went through in life. She couldn’t handle it, and felt she deserved a better situation, which, was to marry a man 13 years younger than her, a non believer, and just do whatever she wants to do (the true heart of these children brought up in that environment). So it’s a cult, and it’s far off of the biblical truth.
They musta thought you were sshhhhaaaarrpppppppp….they just didn’t realize your sword would cut them 😂😂😂
ha, yeah, which should be expected with a Double-Edged sword.
Amazing video!
Thank you do much for this video.
By Gods supernatural intervention I was firmly grounded in the book of Hebrews when they invited me to their Bible studies. I had a great Nkjv study Bible with an extensive topical index. Even though I was only 4 months into reading the Bible I systematically brought up multiple verses that refuted their salvation by works false doctrines. I was surprised at how bad they took it. I naively thought we where their to study the Bible. I was blamed of having a religious demon. I was told I wasn’t really saved because I admitted to relapsing to the sin of porn a few weeks ago after a long streak of abstinence. Thank God I found the orthodox Christian church which has apostolic succession tracing back to the apostle Peter, has one unified doctrine, and thousands of years of solid Holy Spirit inspired history.
Just curious, as i would like for churches claiming to be Christian to be unified, does this church teach repentance and immersion for the forgiveness of sins and the receipt of the Holy Spirit, as Peter taught?
@@kehaulani1467he Orthodox Christian in Antioch was directly founded by St Peter and is still in existence in Damascus. I’m not exaggerating when I say there isn’t a single orthodox service where we won’t ask the Lord for his mercy at least a hundred times. A lot more on many days. Our liturgy hasn’t changed since the 2nd century AD. I’ve never known such repentance as when I joined the orthodox Christian church.
I mean no offense but the Orthodox teaching is similar to ICOC regarding baptism. Nearly identical. So then, what is this salvation by "works" you refer to? @@davefigthe3rd
Honestly this “church” is all about control and money. They constantly practice favoritism to those who are more spiritual, while those who are struggling are silenced and ignored. In my time of need, I was left to the wolves because I wasn’t spiritual enough. They don’t care about people, they care about their bottom lines. You’re pressured to baptize, give money and sacrifice. I advise everyone to read Gabe Reed’s letter before joining.
Just.Like. Scientology! A great BIG MLM Organisation.
The leader Garrett and Hedi were rude, forgetful and constantly telling me I needed to forgive one the fellow child abusers in the group. Amber and Brandon very much admitted to shaking their baby and Hedi and Garret Bradely both just allowed for them to continue to have access to other church members children. Very negligent.
As an ICC member, I’ll just ask you to read Acts 5:17-42. Then, I want you to carefully consider whether or not this video was a wise one to make. That’s all I’ll say, peace be with you.
It was with much fear and trembling before God and through much prayer that I made this video. The truth should not fear examination.
@@emmettkellogg7565 what you said in this video definitely rings true brother. Keep preaching the good news against cults like this.
Stand up for the truth and don't worry about the outcome. What isn't wise about exposing real experiences that's so far from what Jesus preaches and stand for? You're clearly brainwashed. Brushing things under the rug won't get you to the truth...
@@emmettkellogg7565 I made my decision to leave one of their NE churches this week. I can't listen to man tell me what God wants for me. Thats between God and me.
Yes
Just to clarify are you talking about London ICC Church? Based in West London?
London International Christian Church would be part of the same movement/network of Churches, yes.
@@emmettkellogg7565 oh wow, thank you. I just made a friend from the London ICC Church and they have invited me to visit and I was planning to visit that's why I asked for clarification.
@@CoCoDeLaCruZ yes they have churches all over. Some really nice people, but overall I wouldn’t say it’s a healthy church.
@@CoCoDeLaCruZ ask if you can be a part of church without tithing and with no discipling partner. Or if you can go to any church you want after being baptized
I want to thank you so much for this video, my girlfriend and I are doing long distance right now for school, and I am a Biblical studies student so I started to sus out her church (she wasn’t too far in, she was at the light and darkness study or whatever they call it) and this video was super duper helpful for her, she just left so she is now dealing with the harassment and all of that, so pray for us and wish her luck 😅 Really I can’t stress how much this video helped us so thank you again!
Update: We are getting married in a week and now attend a First Baptist church although we are church shopping so my fiancé still considers herself non denominational until we find a church that fits our needs and ability to give to the community. I was genuinely amazed by the level of persistence that the ICC in her area had, but due to our life situation we were blessed enough that rather than deal with the problem my fiancé just decided to attend my college so she was able to move away from where her problems started. While it upset me greatly that they contacted her after she made it clear she didn’t want to be contacted, what I will say (even if it is a silver lining) is that the Disciples who had worked with her seemed genuinely to care about her salvation and while it was totally inappropriate they were either the best actors in the world or really felt that she was abandoning salvation by leaving the church. So tldr: while I personally do feel that the ICC is a cult on an institutional level, and I am glad to have my loved one be safe away from their influence, I also think that at least at some level (the disciples that worked with my fiancé and the local pastor) the people were genuine and meant only the best for those that they discipled.
@@johngalt5166 For me when I left, they kept emailing me about their events even though I no longer wanted anything to do with them. I closed down that email and created a different one. Unfortunately, it's not that easy to do with my number. I blocked all their numbers and I`m not sure if they`ve still been contacting me because of that. But it was over a year ago so I wouldn`t know whose number is who. But they probably stopped a long time ago.
100 % YES !!! Definatley a CULT !
Well put
Please help me. My daughter is in a mental facility because of IOCC. No access.
Please message me on Facebook. facebook.com/emmett.kellogg I’ll try to help in any way I can.
I am currently in the ICC and have had to start going to a psychiatrist and therapist because my experience has traumatized me… I got diagnosed with multiple things but my therapist thinks I have C-PTSD.
The IOCC requires nearly everyday mandatory attendance. They require weekly tithes and additionally "special missions" These special missions require extreme amounts. Eugene IOCC this spring required 15 member to come up with 23,000$. The members are require to attend conferences. Flying to Chicago, LA on members' own time and money. IOCC requires members to church plant as missionaries. They send members without any support, place to live, or job. They are not allowed to question. They separate from family and friends who question the church. They have a decipler ( partner that monitors them ) They have to get permission to date and who you date. Members are required to get permission to marry. They are required to get permission to miss services and activities. My daughter is in IOCC. She is now in a mental hospital with some form of psychosis. The only person of contact is the local leaders of the church. All family and friends have been denied access. BEWARE OF IOCC I am so upset and warn anyone to stay
Away. Stay away
This has got to be the most well balanced video on the ICC. We need more biblically minded ex icc/icoc’ers to expose these guys. The main reason why most members don’t leave is because they think they’re the only ones who have it right - videos like this expose the cracks from a logical and biblical perspective
I lost a friend to this church, someone who was never really grounded in Scripture. She tried to recruit me back in 2017 as if I did not know she was doing. She saw me as lost despite my profession of faith and being Biblically literate. Her mind has been completely taken over by this group. It's amazing how her personality has shifted so much. This is what happens when you are unable to think for yourself. You will find someone who will think for you. I agreed to "study the Bible" with them and I set up Biblical roadblocks to see what they would do. They were so confused. Their "first principles" studies take the place of the Bible itself. Clearly they do not do much plain reading to understand what is being said from the text without referring to Kip McKean's commentary. It's deceptive for them to say "study the Bible" when it means going through pre-determined passages from the Bible with no exegesis. It's a bait and switch tactic.
What sort of biblical roadblocks did you set up, and how did they respond?
@@TerranDawn12 That was a really good question & I would have loved to have heard their answer. Sadly, they probably never got the notification of your question. I've found it's quite typical of TH-cam to use these 'roadblocks,' the buggers. For what it's worth, that really was a great question 😉
Problem i see with this church is by watching their videos is that they use NIV bible . Which was translated by Cults and not by Christians. And i noticed some of thier principle are based on a easy to read translation that is know to have 1,000 plus mistakes ect corrupted version. Being sincere dose not equal to truth, they can be sincerely using the wrong bible and wondering way cult videos are showing up, maybey its the bible versions they use producing its cult fruit . Jesus said his word is Spirit, so if we use the wrong bible then are not using the wrong spirit.Some of these bible versions read like catholic doctrines. but when you read accurate version the word change is day night.
Elements of Indoctrination 1. A Crossroads - Going through a tough time or difficult transition. In a vulnerable state. 2. The Soft Sell - Taking that first step, ie. bible talk, event, first meeting. 'Disciples' can work on you and invite you back. Going to further events to indoctrinate them. 3. A New Reality - Closed or controlled environment. Become more & more enveloped in this self sealing system. 4. The Dear Leader - Your most important relationship is with them. Everything else and everybody else is wrong. (Ie. Kip McKean and the system) 5. The Enemy - which the leaders will often solidify by creating an external enemy. This means that you are going to psychologically run to the cult leaders. You don't reason anymore. People in this state of cognitive dissonance, they're going to choose over and over and over for the cult and the cult leaders. 6. Peer pressure - Which brings us to the key what cult leaders scale up their control. This fundamental desire to be part of a group can override even our own perception of reality. 7. A Sociopathic Narcissist- All to serve the whims of a likely sociopathic narcissist. Look up Multi Level Marketing. Leaving a Cult Its hard to leave a cult because it's your whole world 1. Discover their leader is fallible. 2. They release that these people are all just hypocrites. Claiming they are different. 3. The constructed reality cracks. Leaving the cult creates a lot of fear and people do not know how to make their own decisions. Something they believed in was a delusion. Recipe When you are in a position where you're isolated, alone, hurting, worried. A group comes along and says I can help you. After an epiphany you may be hooked. They mimick your pain or whatever your going through and it becomes like a trance and loose your sense of autonomy, critical thinking and need to be dependant on the group. To experience this with you and to guide you through it. Single mindedness. Isolation, feel guilty for leaving. Deprogramming is undoing the doctrine. Just my notes on cults. The choice is yours.
This is some of what was said to me verbatim when I decided not to show up to get baptized. “Hey bro i don’t know what we did to you personally but I did believe we were truly friends. So are we not cool no more because I associate with GOD? I know we are better than this bro. Look at whats happened, you are willing to throw a friendship away because you saw the truth that you have always prayed for? Im still here for you bro Im just a little hurt.” I only knew them for two weeks… here’s some more. After a bit of discussion he proceeded to send me this. “Hey bro I was praying this morning and I thought of you and these questions. 1. Does your relationship with GOD look the same as before or is it growing? 2. Do you honestly believe that where you are is with GOD. 3. Are you still willing to hear your questions answered by the Bible. 4. Is your family Lord of your life or is Jesus Lord. I love you bro and haven’t forgot about you, don’t stop seeking out answers from GOD and don’t do it alone. Let’s sit down and talk bro.” I mentioned to him that they made a lot of assumptions about my faith and relationship with God. After that he backed down a bit. I had told them multiple times that I had already studied all of the scripture they were showing me and they kept trying to convince me that I didn’t know anything and couldn’t search scripture on my own. They’d say “Doesn’t that make you emotional?” And I said “Not really because I’ve already read that and have come to accept it. No, I didn’t know what I was getting into. Their goal seems to be to get you in person to pressure you 2-on-1 or 3-on-1. To give a more rounded perspective of what I experienced, they were actually a normal kind of friendly people and could have regular conversations with them I went to a good amount of their gathering. However they kept trying to rush me into getting baptized (again) In their Bible studies they always took notes for me and sent me their material. Just haven’t gotten the chance to look it over it all again. However I know their doctrine fairly well because of it. They emphasize being baptized in water as the main means to salvation alongside Jesus. Almost so much so, it seemed the water during baptism was more important than faith in Christ. I told them they could email me answers to my questions, but they didn’t want to do that. If you really want to know there whole belief I recommend purchasing Kip McKean’s book “First Principles and follow up studies” on Amazon They also kept telling me I couldn’t get the book until I was baptized and after I was baptized they’d give me a new Bible than the NKJV study Bible I had, which was also weird.
I also had a NKJV study Bible when I met the folks from this movement. God supernaturally showed me the truth about their false doctrines.
High Control Groups are the worst. They are like onions with all the layers of good faith and lovely people helping their fellow brothers and sisters (if they're in good standing that is) woven together between even more layers of disgusting, abuse, money grabbing and getting as many new members through the door, "ya know, ya gotta get those numbers up$$$" that is a Multi Level Marketing scheme. Just like Scientology does, & the IRS really should take away the tax exemptions from these orgs/cults. Imho They certainly don't deserve it.
My 2 younger siblings attend this church and it is scary. The church has them brainwashed to the point that no matter that we tell them about the church, they don’t want to hear it. We literally read through and watched multiple people’s experiences of the church and they confirmed that they are going through the exact same thing yet they don’t see anything wrong with it and think that we are being used by the devil. They were told not to look online about the church and that anyone that talks bad about the church is being used by the devil and are trying to stop them from discipling or something along those lines. They are 17 and 19 and both are in full time education yet are required to give money to the church even thought they don’t work due and don’t earn any money. This is so scary to witness and I have no clue what to do.
facebook.com/emmett.kellogg Shoot me a message.