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Merle Dandridge's performance in the first game CLEARLY signalled that she was unhappy with the fact that Ellie had to be sacrificed. So to me it is completely consistent with how she was portrayed in the second game. I don't even know how you could get it this wrong lmfao.

First of, whatever I'm going to say, congrats on actually getting your opinion out without being a dick about it, especially on the mine field that this game's discourse is. I want to say that because, I don't want to come of as a hater of your video, or you. Absolutely not my type of interaction. Now just to be clear on where I stand on the game's appreciation, I didn't like the game at all. I thought it was a pointless exercise in misery that managed to take twice the length of the first episode to say less than half. It's for me the prime example of a game that way less than the sum of his part. Also, I'm team Abby, I didn't relate to Ellie's plight at all. And I don't think killing Joel, in a gruesome matter, was an issue either. Makes perfect sense emotionally and narratively for how that character was portrayed. Now that being said, I am a bit disappointed I just watch an hour long video titled "The Last of Us 2 is Good, Actually" that tries to tell me why in the last about 10-15 min, but focuses for 35 min on the worst, most nitpicky and most bad faith arguments against the game that you can find out there. You have great videos being positive about that game : HelloFutureMe and LadyKnightTheBrave both made great thematic analysis. I disagree with how successful the game is with what they put forward, but their arguments are not pushing against low bro "plotholes" that in the grand scheme of things don't matter. You have SoSaysJay who recently put out a video about the stealth system of the game (unfair of me to say because you release yours before, but just an example of an actual defense of the game). These videos, even when I disagree with their conclusions, are doing a good job expressing why "The Last of Us 2 is Good, Actually". And NakeyJakey made a great and hilarious charge against the game and Naughty Dogs' game design in general. And in terms of more balanced critic of the nitpicky type, you should watch Macabre Storytelling for example. What baffles me a bit, is that your final point is not a bad one for a meta understanding of the game, I kind of like it. But it comes after 35 min of poor rebuttal of bad arguments...why do that? I think I would have enjoyed the video way more if you focused on that metaphor/parallel part and expended that idea for like 30 minutes and just dropped the response to 4yo comments made mostly by bigots (we need to stop giving credits to homophobes, mysogynists and transphobes by treating their arguments as worthy of an anwser). And just to answer to the question of the flashback being a metaphor for letting Abby go (or the other way around)...the issue is not here, and I think you also are missing the forest for the tree. I am a hundred percent certain that any player with a lick of media literacy is not blind to that juxtaposition. The issue is not that this is more than "Oh Joel wouldn't want me to avenge his death". The issue is that the game didn't earn that moment, emotionally or narratively, and just threw the flashback in at the worst possible moment to try and justify not having Ellie kill Abby. It can feel plot-devicy despite the possible meta-intention that you put forward.

No, Ellie doesn't believe Joel at the end of the first game. She's just accepting that Joel is lying to her. She's not sure to what extent, but knows she isn't gonna get anything out of him and needs to drop it. Even Ashley Johnson said that when she did the scene, her interpretation of Ellie's "Ok" was: "Ok, you're lying to me, and our relationship isn't what I thought it was. I've gotta figure out how to deal with that on my own."

You're wrong. It's great, actually

I find it ironic everyone felt the same rage Ellie did when Joel died but like Tommy they couldn’t let it go so much it destroyed the game for them… can’t say they didn’t pull at the heart strings. I’d say that checks the box for being on the same level of emotional impact of part 1.

Correction: Marlene had reservations about the surgery in the first game. Her recorder found in the Firefly Hospital recalls her conversation with Jerry where she claims to have “yelled at” him about the loss of life the surgery would require. So she’s not acting out of character at all between the two games. She is so hard on Joel because she’s already made peace with the fact that the surgery is going to happen, and now she needs to control Joel.

your complaint about the dissonance of you fighting ellie as abby is literally the point. the point of that fight, like LOTS of the game is to do something you do not agree with, getting the feeling of “shit i should NOT be doing this”. then again you get the same feeling fighting abby as ellie, thats why they are both so frail in the last fight, it all feels wrong. anyone sane would also have had the same feeling playing the last portion of the first game rescuing ellie. that whole massacre is supposed to make you feel bad for doing it. even if most gamers are psycopaths and that flew straight thru their heads

I thought it became obvious by now TLOU 2 haters are vocal minority, 10% atmost, which is still huge. It's exactly why it felt like 50% people hated TLOU 2 in the beginning.

One part of the ending I really didn't like was Ellie losing 2 of her fingers so she cant play guitar properly anymore

TLOU2 is probably one of my favorite video games to come out in the last four years

I think people’s main issues with the last of us at least my main issue with it is the sudden switch to protagonists at what’s practically the climax of the story, playing a technically meaningless story for eight hours just to see the climax, then being hit with a SECOND climax, and also the tonal whiplash from the first game to the second one. The first game was dark but had very strong themes of love and family, and the seconds is about the cycle of violence and toxic codependency which is just such a what the f from the first game. Joel had to die to progress the story, and I will die on the hill that the last of us 2 has a beautiful story. But there were some crucial storytelling rules broken, and it ended up harming the pacing and feeling of the game.

this is the best tlou video essay I've seen, this perfectly rebuts the no faith criticisms that I hate

The VO for Joel said that he was very hesistent about a sequel until he actually read the script and said it's exactly what that sequel needed to be. He said he always asks fans what they would do for Part II that's so much better, and he's never heard anything that captures what they accomplished in the second game. The one thing I think the first game does consistently better is the pacing, but everything else imo is an improvement over the original. Also the open world level was a remnant of the original design of the game, which was to give you full access to Seattle. Honestly I would enjoy if TLOU III did something inspired by FromSoftware, with either a hub system or a central area with interconnected paths. So you can feel a large world but you're limited in each area.

Marlene fits fine. If you listen to the tapes she leaves in part one you will know she always struggled with the idea

The only thing I have to say about Abby and her physique isn’t even a criticism, but I just wonder how she’s able to maintain the amount of muscle she does while she’s in Santa Barbara long after she left the WLF. I’m definitely not a gym head or anything like that, but I live on a farm and I’m constantly lifting and moving around, causing me to have a muscular body. My sisters and some of my cousins also live the farm life, and they are in really good shape as well. But they don’t look like Abby. Their arms are muscular, but not big like hers. No doubt a lot of walking and fighting infected is definitely going to keep her in shape, but since she’s not living at the stadium anymore and doesn’t have access to the gym and regular food, I figured she’d would just lose some muscle mass and be more slim. But idk, maybe I’m looking too much into it

My favorite game ever

Great video! I agree with lots of what you said and disagree with some of it. The reason why I love the open world section so much is that it feels realistic. A lesser game would have you find the WLFs immediately while this game takes its time to get there. It feels like the calm before the storm. And it allows you to sit with the feeling of losing Joel, that sadness, that anger. I love it but I can see where you’re coming from. Also I love how loyal Jesse is. Dina is there for emotional support while Jesse functions as Ellie’s conscience. That way, we can see just how far Ellie has fallen. But to each their own! And I love how Marlene is written here as it shows a different side. Throughout this game, we see how Ellie is perceived by different people, how Abby is perceived by different people, and our view of both of those characters come from us seeing both sides of these characters. The good, gentle side of them and the bad, aggressive side of them. Marlene is shown in a similar way. Worrying and concerned, but she shows her cold, ruthless side to Joel. Shows more inner conflict. I dug that approach.

Why did Joel kill Marlene? 🤔 I've been thinking about it.

I love the first game more for its compactness, but Part 2 is still an excellent sequel that took some great risks, which most don’t even do. It’s the difference between a 10 and a 9.

I saw a video recently that reframes TLOU2 as a 5-act tragedy (the example they used was Romeo and Juliet) rather than a 3-act standard story. It really shifted my whole perspective. I’ve really loved the game from day one, but I did question the length and pacing. The ‘reframe’ really opened my eyes into what they could’ve been trying to do.

I mean its pretty clear ellie knew joel lied at the end of part 1, but not that she knows what joel did

I dont get the complain about the open world area? It was fun and what you mean by „waste of time“ the gane is only bout 24 hours long and it wasnt fast enough for you?

The last of us 1 gameplay its mid but the Story is amazing, the last of us 2 story is good(didnt like too much havib to play as Abbie) and the gameplay is amazing, i dont understand How people say its a bad game, must be fortnite players or sum

TLOU 2 was good like very honest and brutal. However, I wish we could have gotten more out of Ellie and Joel relationship. Other than that, masterpiece

I will fight to the death defending this game and it's critical place in media

One of the best games I’ve ever played.

that's the problem they misguided the story with the whole cycle of revenge narrative then do a whole 180 at the end giving Ellie the finger

I will say I wasn’t so attached to Joel like most people so the death didn’t bother me much, that being said I enjoyed the gameplay of the second game, as well as big spectacle moments. But the story is flawed. It’s structured very poorly in my opinion. For example you get to the half way point of the game and then it loses all momentum and shifts back to square one with Abby. Overall I’d give it a 6/10

"The Last of Us 2 is Good, Actually" -No it's not.

It really is

When there's spoilers for TLOU2, Succession and Red Dead Redemption 2, you know it's going to be good.

At its core, I just dislike how the game tries to make Ellie's actions seem equal to Abby's actions. That seems like such a wildly incorrect way to view the story, but its the view the developers had. Its a shame because I liked the characters as characters, but I don't think they were utilized correctly in the story. And while people DEFINITELY blew their hate for the game out of proportion, I feel like a lot of people defaulted to saying the story was good out of obligation. It tried new things, so we must say it succeeded whether it did or not.

a bit pointless trying to have a good faith argument about tlou 2 coz the other side is way too stupid to have a constructive conversation

54:40 The zebra’s not a cat. Sorry for the self plug, this was a good video! th-cam.com/video/Kqv-SxperHo/w-d-xo.html

I hate being in the minority where I think the game is actually good but it's nowhere near a masterpiece that the first game was

11:40 Lev and Abby do have a small conversation about his mom during Day 2. The subtext is that he cares a lot for her. He wanted Yara to stay with their mom to take care of her. Not because she needs it, but because Lev cares for her.

I think a couple of reasons they have you play as Abby during the fight with Ellie is 1) to show that Abby can beat Ellie even with the major disadvantage of having no gear (it makes more sense to have the player play the character that wins that fight, imo) and 2) to show how scary Ellie is as an opponent. I actually LOVED playing this fight against Ellie because she was so lethal and terrifying, it was cool to see it from the other side.

It always has been!

-Overuse of Deux ex machina -Highly hypocritical -Poorly executed Whatever the video has to say, i will not change my pov of the game because what i stated is uniquevocably true. AND I'M NOT one of those that dislike the game because they killed Joel, neither because they killed him the way they did, i like when a game, movie, series, has the balls to take risks, but because of how highly pretentious it was while simultaneously miserably failing to deliver its message properly. Can you imagine if TLOU part 2 was about ABBY ONLY, how great i would've been? NO JOEL OR ELLIE in the trailer, just her and new characters, we control her from the beginning and we learn that she wants to avenge her father's death, we grow fond of her and her friends with no unnecessary hypocrisy (like when the game wants you to feel bad for what you did but it basically forces your to do some actions to advance in the story) and then, at the end of the game, at the very end, we found the guy that killed her father, AND IT HAPPENS TO BE JOEL, how MINDBOGGLINGLY GOOD IT WOULD'VE ACTUALLY BEEN, there you would've had truly conflicted feelings, the game would've REALLY managed to express it's imessage, while having an EPIC plot twist.

I will not abide Jesse slander

Very religious imagery. Ellie having a wound on her side and she’s almost a God like figure. 100% she represents Jesus Christ but in a twisted way. She’s the savior of the world.

I’d like to add a 4th reason to Abby being muscular building off a comment you made. She’s extremely intimidating and anyone hunting her down must be a crazy person.

This was a phenomenal analysis. Agreed with your dislikes and likes and every review of criticism. Showed you knew what you were talking about when most of the people hating don't

23:37 i think youre misunderstanding "drinkers" interpretation. Ellie isnt accepting the lie for joels sake, shes accepting the lie (only momentarily if you count TLoU2) that there is no cure so that she can be at peace and not be guilty that she's not withholding a cure from the whole world. Its still convoluted and an interpretation. Its easy to forget shes just a kid and has immense trust in joel at the end of part1. Its not a stretch to think she was able to convince herself to believe joel in this moment, or at the very least was naive enough to believe him in that moment. But the evidence that as she got older their relationship deteriorated, and that she returned to st marys hospital to prove her suspicions is pretty ample evidence for me that she just accepted joels lie for her own sanity in that moment, not for joels sanity.

The first time i started to feel like Ellie went too far was when she kills Mel

😂 37:55 exactly! Abby got buff for revenge, the new world, etc. Ellie a stick & realistically would be dead the second anything grabbed her while Abby could fight things off her. This y i love the Abby v Ellie fight cause Abby beat Ellie till her eyes rolled back 🤣. Joel clearly aint love Ellie much since he never taught her how to fight without that dumbass knife & on that night Ellie learned a valuable lesson.

Wrong. Ellie doesn't believe Joel but theres currently nothing she can do about it other than say ok. She doubts thats true they just gave up & that all of this was for nothing. Hence y yrs later she felt the urge to investigate herself & kept poking & asking about the cure & fireflies. If she believed him she would've dropped it completely & moved on. I Another thing, i find it funny how idiots say joel dod nothing wrong 😂. Hes a stranger trying to force adopt a lil girl to replace the 1 he lost. Nowadays people call that a pedophile or creep, but with joel its sweet & loveable 😂. Nah joel (btw i do love him as a character) is weird! He did bandit evil actions when younger with tommy & never apologized to him for it, drags Ellie into being his surrogate daughter & then knows her dream & goals & selfishly takes that from her hurting her ass alot mentally as she got older & found out the truth. Joel is a dick & got what was coming to him from Abby for all that bad karma he put out there. Man made it his life goal to make enemies 😂 & hurt people that cared for him. But people to dumb to see that. He aint bad or evil but he still a dickhead & tends to have no remorse for actions in the past thus when those past actions spun the block joel knew yeah my times up & just accepted it 🤷🏿‍♂️.

Ah yes what a masterpiece! I particularly enjoyed the scene where Ellie ended two people and then her, Tommy & Jesse all failed to pick up the map which clearly outlined all the places they'd visited whilst in Seattle and identified the location of their base and left it laying on the floor next to the lifeless bodies ready for Abby to find. That's the best idea Druckmann & Gross could come up with to move the story along! Just one example of the many edgy teen's first project on a script writing course at a community college level writing littered throughout this "masterpiece". There are certainly masterful aspects of the game, the photo realistic graphics, the quality of the animations, the environmental design, the voice acting, the soundtrack etc but the narrative structure, pacing, plot holes & amateurish writing really let it down. The people who try to pretend that it's so deep and misunderstood and anyone who doesn't connect with it must lack emotional intelligence are just as bad as those who hate it simply because Abby has muscles.

I think the problem with Marlenes inconsistency is a valid complaint to have but I also think it makes a lot more sense when you take into account who she's speaking to in both of those scenes. The way I see it, she is someone whos pretty much down the middle. She sees both sides of this dilemma and she's just upset that she even has to be the one to make the call at all. In the scene with jerry she's talking to someone whos very much on the side of "get the vaccine no matter what it takes" so in my mind it makes sense that she would play to the other side of that argument. Then in the scene with Joel She's clearly trying to convince him that its about the greater good but she's also trying to convince herself. I also think there's a little side of her that feels like she needs to intimidate Joel so he doesn't try to make any rash decisions. I'm sure in Marlenes mind she was just hoping Joel wouldn't wake up until after the surgery was done so that she didn't have to deal with this Joel but rather just a grieving Joel.

Eh, with everything has happened since then my view of the game has changed. It's like a youtuber named Bricky said about it "A bunch of good apples being spoiled by those 4-5 bad apples" it's not the worst game by far, but it's still not the greatest.