วีดีโอ

Just another broken mechanic. Vanilla Skyrim is so full of them you just stop thinking about it after the second time it happens.

hey I actually did care about the surrender system since day 1, my initial impression of the game 13 years ago had me struck impressed I could display mercy, only to be trolled by every single human enemy in the game I just never expressed it, because I thought it was a me-thing, most people I ever watched playing the game they just killed enemies anyway

i'm always surprised at skyrim's ability to get youtbuers rizzled over it's game design no matter how many years pass

For me atleast it never was a big deal because normally whenever something comes up for the first time in a playthrough it gives a popup So wheh a bandit first surrendered to me i assumed i just had to not attack them for it to work And once they started attacking me again i decided it was expecting too much of a game AI to propperly surrender

Just because we don’t talk about it doesn’t mean we don’t mind…

Because it happens all the time, the surrender mechanic just reads as “oh good, the fighting is over, this kill is free.” I never think to wait for them to get up. The funny part is when companions/allies murder surrendered npcs, especially during the civil war quest line when you see the geneva conventions get violated constantly

I don't care because it's clearly a failed implementation of something and not meaningful. If there was a surrender option, I'd have thousands of NPCs turning their lives around after facing death. :P But there isn't, so it's only annoying.

There actually is a reason for the looney tunes style traps in the draugur dungeons. The traps are easy to avoid, and the puzzle are simple to solve because lore wise they aren't meant to keep people out they're meant to keep the drauger in and drauger are pretty stupid.

I also pretty clearly remember the surprise of the bad guy calling for surrender, then getting back up and laying into me. I was so confused. And now I am trying to play where I only act in self defence or by warrant, and god it's hard. The entire game is built around the dragonborn being a whirlwind of vigilante violence. And yes, I just ignore surrenders as another buggy voice line and keep swinging. It's the best headcanon to try and keep the morals of my character.

yea this was always weird for me too

I usually cast calming spells at them to not feel bad, or paralyze them in crawling posture and walk away laughing))

The reason why barely anyone talks about it is, because those people who would care about that would stop playing this game for alot of other reasons and those who still play it doesn't care about it because they doesn't care about bigger issues this game has.

One interesting interpretation of this mechanic is that of course the player would simply ignore someone surrendering - the player character explicitly has the soul of a dragon, and dragons are explicitly said to be driven by a desire to dominate. The player going full murderhobo loot goblin is expected not only from a gameplay standpoint, but a lore one as well! The surrender system is still half-baked (this has nothing to do with every bandit attacking you after getting back up, after all) and I highly doubt this interpretation was intentional, but it's still interesting to think about.

You know I didn't think it bothered me as much as you but this made me remember purposely using weapons and strategy to attempt to chunk enemies health fast enough so I didn't have to experience it.

This is a really good video. Thanks for taking the time & effort. What you describe is indeed jarring. The thing is, at least in my opinion, if one subjects oneself to woke social media, to the woke left its a way of life.

As a lefty you just gave me a new video to watch. Thanks.

This is kinda emblametic on why I hate these essays, I need someone to count just how many minutes this dude actually spent on the fucking topic.

I always pretend like the "surrender state" is just a stun effect that happens when an enemy is low on health, since all it really does is make it easier to finish them off

looks like youtube ate my comment, but I 100% agree, I still remember the first time I was bamboozled by the surrender mechanic, but it's not the only one. 1. there's a quest where you can choose to become an ally of the forsworn, and yet even after that quest I was getting attacked by them randomly. I'd thought it a bug but after this I'm not sure. 2. the hostile wildlife. wolves and big cats do not attack for no reason irl and it bugs me to no end that they're stereotyped as aggressive in games. 3. the sheer amount of bandits per capita??????? even ignoring the respawn mechanics which have to exist and that's fine, the sheer amount of bandits and necromancers compared to the law-abiding citizens of skyrim baffle me 4. the sheer amount of dragons. WHEREMST TF are all these dumb sky lizards coming from???? before it got corrupted past playability, I had an over 100hr playthrough where it felt like every 10 minutes I was being bothered by a dragon.

Since they stood up and started attacking again if you waited, I always interpreted it as them playing possum.

I do remember being pretty confused by this as well. It still kinda bugs me. Wouldn't say it took me out of the experience completely but it was certainly a head scratcher and still is. I suppose it's just very easy to ignore because you're killing them anyway and you get lost in the action.

yeah this always really bothered me. it definately ruined my immersion and made the game feel all the more shallow and empty

This could be conflating old childhood memories and me replying the game molded. But I recall when I was playing oblivion I tried surrending a lot. I remember being able to once to a bandit fight, a lot of the times to the guards. But when I tried doing that in skyrim I was disappointed and felt similarly to you, I was shocked when the enemy surrendered and I put my weapons away and felt annoyed they always attacked back Fast forward to fallout 4 my first character started at 10 charisma and my first perk was to make humans surrender and I tried that and if you put your weapon away they just go full aggro on you the moment you do. It really sucks that surrendering isn't a valid choice for the enemy or yourself. For skyrim the mercy system being talked about here wasn't what broke my immersion for me, as many other factors did. Maybe if other parts didn't drag me out already this would have been a more shocking moment.

I remember trying to accept surrender. I quickly stopped trying, then stopped caring. I took it as being just another piece of cut content, like the five missing apprentices at the college.

Moroboomers in the chat

I feel similar about the non-lethal toggle in BG3. Knocked out opponents are almost identical to dead ones, and that was really disappointing to me. The first time I used it was on those two followers of the absolute that lost their leader to an owlbear attack. I revealed myself as the Nautiloid survivor. They attacked, but I gave that dying man my word they'd be safe. I knocked them out and kept wondering if I'd see them again. As far as I'm aware, I never did. They were dead as far as the game was concerned.

I think the part of me that seeks immersion shits off during combat and resumes after the enemy is killed. Surrender mode is just a helpful mechanic that lets me hit an NPC with soul trap before it dies.

I used to care that they didn’t surrender properly But then I took an arrow to… the.. meh

I have an extremely similar problem with deepwoken (open world Online souls-like on Roblox) where to kill humanoid enemies, you must finish them after knocking them down. Most bandits will say a line like “make it quick” as you do it, but some will go “please, I’ll do anything!” Or something like that, and if you don’t finish them, just like everyone else, they get up after X amount of time and pull their knife out and run straight at you, swinging. Way I see it, don’t add dialogue (or game mechanics in skyrims case) like this if you aren’t going to actually do something with it.

4:45 bird top right corner

Playing Skyrim VR is an incredible experience. It's so immersive that I found myself taking hours on a quest that normally only took 30 minutes.

I like this mechanic, maybe it's me 'being a good improv partner' as you put it but I think it works well to make the world feel alive and can be interpreted in a way that's immersive. Your enemies are your enemies for a reason and they aren't above cowardly faking a surrender to get the upper hand when they're desperate. I think the world of skyrim is rather cold-hearted and cutthroat, the Nord's culture emphasizes honor but Skyrim takes place in a time of war where their traditions are ignored or sometimes outlawed. The people you fight are often already desperate people who've compromised their principles enough that a dishonorable fake surrender seems in character, or maybe fear is overwhelming them but after they regain enough strength to make a stand they cast it aside to die a warriors death. Sure this mechanic would be better if some would genuinely surrender, but I think removing this mechanic would make the game feel less immersive and alive to me, and I also found it peculiar that they never actually surrender

the draugr are there for lore reasons actually; in skyrim, they underwent a ritual before death so that they may guard tombs even after death. they're permanently stuck in their guard duty, being unable to do anything else, hence why those puzzles and traps are everywhere; keeping them in because they've lost the ability to solve any puzzles, but the ordinary person can still get in and out. the draugr of skyrim are actually based on real life mythology! draugr are "corporeal ghosts" and anyone who was mean/unhappy/greedy/evil in life could become a draugr after death, no fancy rituals needed. they will either protect their tomb viciously, or they will seek out livestock and people to terrorize and consume. sometimes they'll wander back to where they died, or used to live. they're usually driven by envy, greed and bloodthirst, there's no real way to prevent them from becoming draugr but there are ways to stop them from wandering, or ways of confusing them so they cannot find their way (they're pretty easy to confuse though, simply making a new "door" for the dead and taking the body out through it, then sealing it up, can completely mess with them and suddenly they can't find their way inside). in some sagas they're even considered "vampiric" in nature! the draugr of skyrim are definitely implied to be more noble, choosing to become undead guardians as a way to show their undying loyalty 😭

I'm gonna be honest, Skyrim is, in my personal opinion, the most overrated game of all time. And I genuinely think that it is the reason modern Bethesda has gone down the drain. If you look at any aspect of skyrim, and actually think about it, you'll find it's shallow, and poorly executed. The story? Barely there. The characters? Forgettable, shallow, and poorly written. The combat? basic beyond belief, even for its time. The dungeons? Bethesda practically created procedurally generated dungeons before procedural generation was a thing, 95% of them are almost identical. The world? Massive, and so, so empty. Sure, there are items to loot, enemies to fight, and npc's to meet, but every single encounter feels the same. The items are boring and rarely mechanically unique, the enemies are always so similar, and the npc's are shallow and uninteresting. Skyrim has about 10-15 hours of truly interesting and entertaining content, and it stretches it over as large a world as they could muster. When you compare it to even fallout 3, the quality of content just doesn't stand up. And I genuinely think they used the insane success of this deeply mediocre game, to justify the design decisions that created fallout 76 and starfield.

Dude that intro was way too long

I remember having the opposite reaction to encountering this the first time. I was in a two story building and I got the last person to "yield," so I put my weapon away and went upstairs. Obviously, the bandit followed me and attacked me from behind. I was upset, but not at the game, at the bandit. I turned around and killed it, but I never forgot the encounter. All further surrender dialogue started to elevate the battle to me; when I hear them say something, I get furious. It turns a casual encounter to a vivid memory of betrayal. It makes me more violent towards an otherwise unassuming enemy. I genuinely always assumed that was the intended effect. Though, really, it's probably because this game is an elaborate (and unfinished) engine test

You've only made 3 videos?! I was hoping to find a back catalogue I could throw into my watch later! More please sir, more!

I'm sure I've had this in a few games. I know FTL at least. Where there is a possibility for the enemy to surrender but no option for me, so I don't mind not accepting surrender.

Skyrim is soulless mid and it's a natural consequence of Bethesda not losing money and being harshly criticized enough for Oblivion and Fallout 3

This has bugged me for years. I have complained about it more than once but I don't make videos.

Jesus fucking Christ, dude, just say what you mean already, I'm 10 minutes in and you're just dodging the subject and rambling about meaningless things. This video could've been 10 minutes but you made it triple the time for absolutely no reason at all. You ruined my immersion

I just pretend the Dragonborn is just Batman that kills

Enemies do this in fallout 3 as well (fallout 4 has those perks that let you interact better with npcs), where sometimes a raider goes ‘Aah! No!’ & runs away cowering, but if you hang around they’ll eventually get hostile again

This has always really bothered me with Skyrim. Kingdom Come Deliverance is an example of enemies surrendering done a lot better in my opinion

I don't really *do* immersion, but I still really enjoyed watching this video. You explained the off-ness of everything really well and it helped enhance my personal interest in games like Undertale which choose to depict a version of events where you're SEEN as what this Skyrim protagonist would look like to others. Just a cold, merciless machine marching through an area, killing literally everyone in their way just for as many cheap baubles as they can click on no matter how they beg you to let them live. Which is so obviously not the intent to make EVERY Dragonborn feel that way, come on guys, change some 1s and 0s already.

I was under the impression that this existed in order to make NPC vs NPC combats more interesting. I personally enjoy just observing when the ais are fighting and the surrenders make it more interesting. Although once again its a bit disconcerting when a bandit tries to surrender to a wolf, who of course does not accept or notice the surrender in any way and just chomps them to death.

The video actually starts at 12:01, you're welcome

Its very sad that the horrible slopfest of stalker 2 is anyones GOTY but there really isnt any other good game out yet I guess.

i have played... no small amount of video games, but listening to your explanation of immersion and... I don't think I've ever experienced this? This is like when I discovered that some people actually do have vivid mind's eyes...

I just fast travel, it's easier and quicker