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The Golden Age of Cirque du Soleil
United States
เข้าร่วมเมื่อ 24 มี.ค. 2009
This channel is dedicated to creators and performers of the early shows in Cirque du Soleil's history from 1984 to 1997, inclusive of:
- 1984: Le Grand Tour du Cirque du Soleil
- 1985: Cirque du Soleil
- 1986: La Magie Continue
- 1987: Le Cirque Réinventé
- 1990: Nouvelle Expérience
- 1992: Saltimbanco
- 1992: Fascination
- 1993: Mystère
- 1994: Alegría
- 1996: Quidam
- 1998: "O"
- 1998: La Nouba
In particular I explore the history, theory, and themes of these shows along with highlights of the creative time, their interest, and their work.
- 1984: Le Grand Tour du Cirque du Soleil
- 1985: Cirque du Soleil
- 1986: La Magie Continue
- 1987: Le Cirque Réinventé
- 1990: Nouvelle Expérience
- 1992: Saltimbanco
- 1992: Fascination
- 1993: Mystère
- 1994: Alegría
- 1996: Quidam
- 1998: "O"
- 1998: La Nouba
In particular I explore the history, theory, and themes of these shows along with highlights of the creative time, their interest, and their work.
The Golden Age of Cirque du Soleil, 3. "Quidam"
A very short and not-at-all-overly-analytical look at a surrealist experiment in the Golden Age of Cirque du Soleil: Quidam. Topics include René Magritte, Paul Delvaux, Franco Dragone, Debra Brown, Dominique Lemieux, and several themes which went on to inspire future productions like O and La Nouba.
We look at the History of the show, discuss the Theory about how the show works, and provide some subjective Criticism on the hits, misses, and meaning of this dark and provocative show.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
01:35 History
04:01 Theory
21:51 Criticism
25:08 Show Themes
Links
- Cirque du Soleil Quidam: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quidam
- Karl Baumann's TH-cam: @movement5678
- Alain Catonne's TH-cam (Les Macloma): @AlainCatonne
--
All of the videos, songs, images, and graphics used in this video belong to their respective owners and neither I, nor this channel, claims any right over them.
Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.
We look at the History of the show, discuss the Theory about how the show works, and provide some subjective Criticism on the hits, misses, and meaning of this dark and provocative show.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
01:35 History
04:01 Theory
21:51 Criticism
25:08 Show Themes
Links
- Cirque du Soleil Quidam: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quidam
- Karl Baumann's TH-cam: @movement5678
- Alain Catonne's TH-cam (Les Macloma): @AlainCatonne
--
All of the videos, songs, images, and graphics used in this video belong to their respective owners and neither I, nor this channel, claims any right over them.
Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.
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The Golden Age Artist Interview: Benedikt Negro
มุมมอง 4746 หลายเดือนก่อน
I sit down with Benedikt Negro and discuss his life and journey to the stage. For over 20 years, Benedikt has performed the role of "Le Vieux" (also called "Eugen"), which is the ringmaster character in Cirque du Soleil's Las Vegas Show :"O." Chapters 00:00 Introduction 00:33 Early Life 05:16 Meeting a Mime 08:27 Moving to Berlin 10:43 Joining Cirque du Soleil 12:08 On Eugen Brim 13:25 Meeting ...
The Golden Age of Cirque du Soleil, 2. "Episode O"
มุมมอง 2.2K8 หลายเดือนก่อน
A very short and not-at-all-overly-analytical look at one of the finest shows created during the Golden Age of Cirque du Soleil: O. Topics include Gilles Ste-Croix, Franco Dragone, Dominique Lemieux and several other show creators. We look at the History of the show, discuss the Theory about how the show works, and provide some subjective Criticism on the hits, misses, and meaning of this beaut...
The Golden Age of Cirque du Soleil, 1. "The Golden Age"
มุมมอง 90610 หลายเดือนก่อน
Starting the conversation about "The Golden Age" of Cirque du Soleil (approx. 1984-1998). All of the videos, songs, images, and graphics used in this video belong to their respective owners and neither I, nor this channel, claims any right over them. Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, new...
aboslutely in love with your series! last year i started scripting circus shows in eastern europe. your critique provides interesting perspective. thank you. i hope you will continue
@@dinofnomad that’s such a nice compliment! Glad you enjoyed it, and it’s comments like this that reminds me I should make a new episode, haha. 🙏
This narrator has no experience with basic theatre technology. The stage has a turn table or revolve, not a lazy Susan platform, dummy. Also not a five track tramway, it’s called a téléphérique in Cirque terms and in scenic automation it would be called a set of tracking trolleys or winch trolleys if so equipt. Learn. Your. S***.
I was in Quidam... an amazing experience.
@@VitalMGermaine tell me more! Which act? What years? Would love to hear about your experience!
Ah, my people! Nerding on Cirque du Soleil ❤ quidam is SO special to me for so many reasons and now I have a daughter…Zoe 🥲
I didn't know all that information you shared but I totally agree. I have always thought of these shows as the golden age of Cirque du Soleil. I really enjoy watching your videos. Great work and thanks for sharing!
Realmente me encantó el video! Te felicito por todo el estudio y el empeño que has logrado. Desde pequeño que veía los clásicos del Cirque du Soleil, y cuando veía Quidam no era de mis favoritos (pues claramente era un niño hahahah) pero ahora veo el espectáculo con otros ojos, sobre todo a las grandes referencias e inspiración que sacó el director (que lo amo) para hacer este espectáculo, pues claramente como dijiste “cualquier persona de la edad moderna entendería Quidam”. De verdad muchas gracias por el video. PD: tienes mucha razón al final del video, porfavor, que si sacan otra vez Quidam ¡Que sea solo Quidam! No 2.0 😂😂, ya que el nuevo Alegria me decepcionó mucho, sobre todo musicalmente
No creo que Alegría «In a new light» sea terrible... Desgraciadamente sólo está bien. Es una secuela. Las secuelas tienen fama de ser malas, jaja. Pero si van a hacer un remake de una función, que sea lo más parecido al original. Si no, que hagan una actuación totalmente nueva. ¡Gracias por compartir tu historia y tus amables palabras!
God save le cirque du soleil. When Nouvelle experience and cirque reinvente episodes?
I hope this show returns one day to the big top.
Would love to know your opinion on the show Varikai. To me it feels like the last true cirque show that ended the golden era of cirque. Just remember watching how the show was made (as it was a documentary show on it) and the levels they went to.
That's an interesting question because of course that was directed by Dominic Champagne, totally different costume director, and so forth. A very different creation team, though many of the coaches and act creation people were overlapping. I think Dominic spent time trying to understand the existing work of Cirque at that point so I definitely think there are echoes of this time. Also, of course, John Gilkey was involved in Varekai as well. So I think it certainly has a relationship to this era of work, but was in the hands of a pretty significantly different team which is why I tend to leave it out of my area of analysis. It was super interesting to hear Dominic interviewed on the Tapis Rouge podcast saying what I suspected all along: that when he joined Cirque to make Varekai, the company was in absolute chaos. Franco had left and nobody knew how to organize the machine to create a show!
@@TheGoldenAgeOfCirqueDuSoleil really cool, I will have to take a look at the podcast as well
So happy I found your channel. I have adored Cirque Du Soleil, especially O for years and years now. This week, I am finally seeing O in person for the first time and it is so exciting watching this interview in anticipation of that!
@@scoutmaccas enjoy!!
Thank you for this incredible amount of research and dissection of the show’s concept! A bonus detail I love on the silks act is that through the show’s history, it was frequently performed by the artist who plays the mom’s character. At the end of the act she falls back into the father’s arms, or in the DVD version, her own. Not to mention every performer’s take on the act like Vaudelle’s hanging illusion. Also another fave is the intermission “Égaré” sequence where the colourful skipping rope characters collapse on stage as Zoe’s balloon flies into a cage target is carrying. After intermission we come back to find them turned into the dark grey banquine characters. Loss of innocence and great example of sequence of movements. Just so much detail you can’t find in new shows like Kurios or Volta. Completely agree an original revamp would fit perfectly in today’s context.
@@felipecoral8878 I’ve had a few other people point out the intermission “transformation.” I wish I had had a little more access to real footage to include that, it’s something I forgot from the small number of times I saw it live. Glad you enjoyed it and yes; they don’t make them like they used to! Haha.
I was waiting for your Quidam vid and was so happy it was the next one. Your series totally encapsulates what I've been feeling about CDS for years now - the shows today are missing that special ingredient. Thanks for packaging all your research, theories, and montages into these eps. I can only imagine how long that takes. Highly anticipating the rest of your series!
@@dougfong3878 thanks for your comment! Happy to hear from like minded folks, makes it all worth it!
WOW 😍 Incredible video!!! 🤩🤩🤩 More videos please… DRALION, ALEGRIA, LA NOUBA, VAREKAI New fan nd subscriber!! 😊😊😊
Finally I wanted to say how someone pointed out to how this is almost like the Yang to Saltimbanco’s Yin: a cold dark society filled with disconnection and suffering in contrast to a warm hopeful society. Sorry if this was too much to point out. You covered a lot of great material in this video. I just wanted to voice my opinions even if I had a lot. Comment 3 of 3.
@@colinmcallister3038 I love it! There’s always something I will miss; near the end of editing I found out about the connection with Robert Doisneau that I totally missed. As you know these are packed with thousands of little details and it is difficult to capture it all. I do think there’s symbolism in the hat and shoes for sure, more than anything it’s just funny to me how much I associate this show with Quidam the character and he’s barely got any stage time! I guess that’s the point about strangers, you remember them sometimes even if you only see them in passing. My main point in making these videos is not necessarily to be 100% right or capture every little detail, but instead to point out the level of detail the creators were working to include. I find it somewhat annoying that a causal viewer might feel like the shows are just “random” dream scene non-sense. On the contrary they’re highly detailed and things are selected to be put into the show for their meaning and how they support the overall message (and of course how compelling they are to the audience). It’s telling that it takes many years and many conversations and books to find the many inspirations and sources that lead to these shows. I really appreciate you watching and sharing your knowledge!
One thing I wanted to point out about the Banquine act, there was some symbolism that wasn’t touched on in your video. Andrii Lytvak, check out his channel Cirque Arts, previously performed this act and he replied to a question I had regarding the transition of colors for Les Egares: basically at the end of act one there is an explosion and Les Egares fall to the ground. Shortly afterwards they release their souls in the form of heart shaped balloons. When we see them again at the start of act two, their once colorful personas have been replaced with gray tattered versions of themselves, symbolizing that they lost everything, like people post war as you mentioned. The banquine act represents the climax of their story to regain what once was lost: life. On a minor note, when Zoe sees the tragedy before her she release her balloon soul which caught in a cage by Karl: her innocence may have been lost but her soul isn’t completely lost. Comment 2 of 3.
This was a great analysis on Quidam, I really like this show for how different it is from the lighthearted Cirque shows. However, I have to disagree when you called the Bowler Hat a “meaningless plot device”: there’s a saying that wearing another person’s hat is like wearing someone else’s shoes ergo when Zoe put on Quidam’s bowler hat, she found herself in the world that we get to explore throughout the show. Speaking of shoes, John putting on Zoe’s father’s shoes symbolizes him stepping into his role and after the adventure Father has been on, John gives the shoes back knowing that he was ready to fulfill the role that he was meant to be for his daughter. Comment 1 of 3.
Amazing Video, I never knew of what inspired quidam and am fascinated by those artists
Thank you! I have wanted to know more about this show and its creative inspirations for over 20 years! This show has such an impact on my life that I got Quidam tattooed many years ago! 😮 To me it’s the most impactful show cirque has ever made.
I love that you got a Quidam tattoo! I need one... I have stilt walkers from Mystére on my arm but would love a Quidam tattoo. What is it of?
I have Quidam himself holding the hat on a street in the rain. Black and grey, covering my whole ribcage 😅
@@stanleytaylor2105 incredible!
I very much appreciate your take on Quidam. I was fortunate enough to watch it live in its early years. Thank you my ballet company. I live in Vegas, and have watched a few Cirque shows. Quidam has always been my number one. I wish they would bring it back. There is a dark beauty about it.
Amazing! Everything is right. The painting, the theme, the colors. You did an amazing work there. Wow I'm impressed. Thank you very much 🙏🏼
Really fantastic job you did! Thank you !
Amazing work you did. #francodragone
@@LookaLoopa 😮! Hello! Obviously, I adore the work of your father. I never got to meet him, but I’ve thought about his work daily since I first saw it, 20 years ago. I hope I can properly document some of his contributions to this art form: his hard work, talent, sensitivity, humanity. Your comment means the world to me! 😃
Bro really touching what you said about Franco Dragone. I'm the son of Franco
@@LookaLoopa you are an honored guest on this channel!
Franco Dragone is the genius behind the golden age of CDS with an amazing team behind also. #francodragone
Fun stuff
I am so happy you talked about the lady in the red silk act. I totally felt all three emotions she was going through during that act. I knew what she was going through because I felt I was going through the same thing at that time. Amazing act, I LOVED every part of this show!! ❤️
thank you. I always thought the original Diabolo's act was a commentary on child labor - the Chinese girls are dressed like clockwork wind up dolls, machines spinning spools and gears - one of several reflections on loss of innocence in the show and oppressed people. like the transformation of the school yard children into the banquine act.
@@Audovauld that’s a clever interpretation, particularly how young they are; it stands out in that act when you see it live, you can’t imagine how somebody that age is able to perform in that way. And they really are dressed up like parts of the machine. I think the first 50 times I saw it on video I couldn’t get past how much they look like the tin man!
Thank you so much for making this! Never seen the show and will probably never have the chance, so I'm really glad to at least have a second hand perspective. Great work!
Nouvelle experience and le cirque reinvente episodes
I love cirque du soleil. But le cirque reinvente and Nouvelle experience is my favorite show❤❤❤
When Nouvelle experience and cirque reinvente episodes?
I know you have a specific theory but as someone who was born in 1995, I'd love to hear you talk about other shows I grew up with and love like Verekai and Corteo. Quidam is one of my all time favorites as well, thank you for such a comprehensive video.
Brilliant! Love the analysis and historical references to artists that influenced the shows!
(so sorry this is so long lmao) I’m so happy you’re doing quidam! Its my favorite cirque show by far even though i never got to see it live. It also has one of my favorite acts in any cirque du soleil show, the red silks. I absolutely love how intense, sad and angry it all is not to mention how I interpret this part of the story it’s really deep and personal to me and it never fails to get my crying lmao. I personally interpret the character doing the silks to be a visual metaphor showing either how the mom has been recently or how she’s currently feeling in the present, and I personally interpret the silks to represent all her intense emotions and desires good and bad swirling around her, tangling her up in everything with no time for rest (though personally If i had to be specific I’d say they mostly represent the desire for death/the desire to be “free”). And the mom and the woman who pick her up at the end i view as the mom finally getting the strength to save herself, pulling herself away from it yet her old self not wanting to let go of it. I would argue that quidam/the hat aren’t entirely “meaningless” to the plot. I think what they add most to the story is what/who they represent, sure quidam himself doesn't actually do much in the show but without him in it zoe wouldn’t have been thrown into the journey she finds herself in. not to mention to me at least i love how they have quidam just walking around the background throughout the show, to me it adds even more of an element to what quidam means, a passerby who you kind of notice don’t really interact with, someone who is simply just there. I love learning more about cirque but especially quidam, unsurprisingly I knew most of this but there was also alot i didnt, really excited to see whats next !
Haha, well firstly don't apologize for a long comment, I just made a 25+ minute video, I should be apologizing! The silks act probably could have its own video I think it's a really big deal, and it's cool that it has seemed to really grab a lot of people and be moving and memorable. And yes, Quidam is an interesting character, he's maybe not as pointless as I make him out to be. I find it interesting that he's such a big visual memory of the show, but his stage time is like... 2-3 minutes or something. But it does underline the basic theme of the show. It feels like it is his hand in the sky, like he's the one always watching. Thanks for watching with interest, it's really fun to hear from people!
this channel is going places
24:50, the end of the statue act is in my opinion one of the best parts of all the show! I have never seen such a terrific representation of something fading out in real life! Music, lightning, images, just utterly perfect!
Love the username and love hearing from the fans!
19:39, in a later version, can’t remember the performer, there was also a sequence in which it looked liked the woman hung herself. So emotional to see live. I wish they would bring this show back, just the way it was, under the big top!
I have seen all the shows that had came under THE BIG TOP to Spain since Alegria 1998. Quidam is the best of them. It is the creative peek of CDS itinerant shows. Thanks for your amazing videos!
Keep it up with these amazing videos! Can't wait to hear you talk about Saltimbanco or Mystere. I would've liked to hear more analyzing of the themes and imagery of Quidam though.
Wowow what a great analysis on an incredible show. Thank you so much for this one!!! Your insight and knowledge is mind blowing!
@@1trandaman glad you enjoyed it!
This was a great deep dive into the world of O. No pun intended. 😉 I hope you do an analysis of Alegria or Quidam next.
Thanks! Quidam is in edit mode!
@@TheGoldenAgeOfCirqueDuSoleil Really?! I’m excited!
I was totally riveted to every word and agree with the components of a Golden Age show-exactly the deep analysis I seek! Looking forward to more, especially Alegria as it’s my first show (which legit changed my life 😊🥰💜)
I'm so glad you enjoyed it. I am working on Quidam right now, hopefully I eventually get to Alegria, a really beautiful show.
Fantastic video! I'm so glad to have stumbled upon this. I perform in an aqua show with royal caribbean that's deeply cirque inspired, but not quite the same caliber - Ive spent so many brain cycles trying to place exactly just what's missing, and really appreciate your insights on cirque. Excellently done video, looking forward to more! Thank you so much!
What a kind comment! And from a real artist! I watched your reel, so great.
@@TheGoldenAgeOfCirqueDuSoleil aw thank you!!! As a martial artist, I'm especially curious to hear any insights you had about R.U.N. I know a few folks who were in it, and have only heard negative things. I'm curious to hear your thoughts about the show artistically, as well as anything you know about why the production failed....there aren't many roles in cirque for martial arts, especially for women (there are two in Ka, tho one is mostly acting, and the Wushu role in MJ one recently switched to a dancer track). It's too bad that RUN, which featured lots of martial arts, wasn't successful.
@@RebeccaChinn full disclosure I never saw RUN with my own eyes, though I did see a lot of footage. It was only open for a short period so I missed it. The frustration I had with that show (and with many shows that many companies put out) is that it starts with the superficial interests (in this case: action movies) and builds the show around it. By contrast, CdS always started with an intention/meaning/message (in the case of O: "Human life is beautiful") and all of the aesthetics and performances were built around that message, and that's what makes them work. They're complex but the driving force underneath is a strong, relatable message about people. My sense is that somebody at Corporate did a case study, decided they needed to get more revenue from a young male demographic, did some focus groups, saw that young men like dark action films, and decided that was a good way to pursue a new audience and try something new and interesting (do it over the top, the cirque way). I think that's a really bad way to choose the artistic direction of a show. And it seems that in the end, young men still weren't that interested in plunking down a couple hundred dollars to see a live action cirque film type thing. An expensive mistake. Cirque used to make super creative shows and set the tone for what was interesting and what was new and cool; now it feels like they've run out of new ideas and so they have to chase trends instead. That's my feeling, it may be slightly unfair. I don't doubt people were trying and working hard to make a good show. Seeing your reel, you using the bo staff, immediately transported me back to one of the most beautiful movies I've ever seen: Crouching Tiger, of course the final battle between the two women. I remember seeing an interview with Ang Lee where he said he loved Kung Fu films, but they can be tiresome, its a lot of fighting-he wanted to make a Kung Fu film as an homage to all his favorites and he wanted the characters to be fighting "for a reason." And that's what makes that movie work: it's a story about love, betrayal, jealousy, loss, friendship, growing up... it's really meaningful and human and relatable. And when they fight, they're fighting for really important and understandable reasons, and the execution is absolutely beautiful. And that's the metaphor I'd use: RUN felt like it was "action movie stuff" for the sake of "action movie stuff." I know they had a story line, I just am not sure anybody connected with it, and so it never seemed to achieve that sort of hook that gets somebody saying: "Wow I really enjoyed that I'm going to tell my friends to spend hundreds of dollars to go see it." It also was very dark, and while I might say it looked "cool" I'm not sure I would say it was "beautiful." Sorry for the novel 🙂
@@TheGoldenAgeOfCirqueDuSoleil Ha! novel appreciated :D I can definitely see how you could conclude that a lot of the more recent shows are more "trying to appeal to a certain crowd" rather than starting from a very organic message or meaning. Thanks for explaining! Ah i never saw RUN either but what you describe - "action movie stuff being 'cool' but not 'beautiful'" is basically exactly why I'm more interested in cirque world than stunt/action movie world. I'm all for beauty rather than violence/action. :') Of cirque more recent shows, i absolutely LOVED Drawn to Life. It's affiliated with Disney and i think they did a great job honoring the ideas "story" and "creativity". It's a completely different flavor than early cirque, but i really loved how the themes were seamlessly blended into the acts. I was quite touched. I'm also suuuper curious to see how their newer projects are turning out - the one with Macallan, the one in hawaii, and it sounds like they're working on something new with artistic swimmers in puerto vallarta! (and of course I'm dying to know how the next iteration of House of Dancing Water is going to go... :D ) How closely do you follow cirque news nowadays?
@@RebeccaChinn I need to see Drawn to Life; I used to live in Florida and saw La Nouba many many times, so that building is like a temple to me. Glad to hear you enjoyed it, I'll check it out next time I'm near. Lately I've really only been in Vegas or seen local shows when they come. I really like Danielle Finzi Pasca (he did Corteo and Luzia), so I've seen those when they pass through and they're quite good in my opinion, they remind me of Franco Dragone's work, but he also has his own style. I always wait to get a little sense of a new show and if people seem to like it, I'll go give it a look with my own eyes... always hopeful for another new beautiful show with happy talented performers!
Thank you for this video; such an interesting and thoughtful critique. I’d love to see/hear more about other golden age shows like La Nouba (my fav). Also, what other eras of cirque are there, and what makes those shows less successful overall than their predecessors? Some food for thought
Thanks for your thoughts! Definitely more to come… in progress haha
This man Is Cirque royalty!
Loved this interview amazing stories and damn I would love to be able to see quidam on stage I would pay any amount of money
Quidam is my next video… in progress…
too good! Thanks for this work, I'm excited to see more.
Yes ! Love the history theory and critique! Thank you Joe!
I honestly love the simple and sometimes vague stories of most cirque shows. I think it leaves it up to interpretation of the individual watching it which ik sounds like a copout or whatever to some but I personally think it makes each show that much more special and unique. also the red lady is by far my favorite character in this show, I love her absurd and jagged movements and dancing. my favorite "image" is her when she pops out of the coffin during the funeral march, its unexpected and kind of jarring/un-nerving in a way. I personally view her as the embodiment of (emotional) freedom: a "mad woman" who doesn't care about what other people or the rest of the world thinks, she express her intense emotions in a pure way most other people could only dream of if that makes any sense lmao and im reallllyyy excited for when (if) you cover quidam, its personally one of my fav shows for so many reasons and I think its the one I relate to the most story wise, especially to Zoe
uughhh im so happy to find someone doing like deep dive/history thing on cirque du soleil. it's been my biggest obsession literally for as long as I can remember. it actually got me into clowning, clown/circus inspired fashio/makeup and some other circus arts (trapeze, juggling and contortion, tho admittedly I rlly only do clowning and the fashion stuff now lol)
This is amazing!
Just found your series by chance. I consider myself a Cirque du Soleil “Freak” / “passionate fan” since I saw Alegria back in 98 with 12 years old... so I would look forward to see and comment every episode of your series. Thanks for your work. Last week, after seen Alegria in a new Light, I was discussing with my wife If Cirque had lost it’s “Magic” or it’s just me that I “grow up” and I compare every show with what I consider “Cirque best ages” (form Saltimbanco to La Nouba). As you point in this first video, we talk about the productions, not the artists. I also consider that the only Director who has recovered some of "that magic" and whose shows stand out from the rest after the "Dragone era" is Daniel Finzi Pasca. What do you think?
Thanks for your comment. I actually was planning on showing the Daniele does seem to have the closest style to Dragone, so we are in agreement!